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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
278 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  09:46:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Will Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin have a better career when they are both retired?

Choices:

Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin

(Anonymous Vote)

ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
696 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  10:52:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I chose Seguin, other than my obvious bias being a B's fan, I just think he'll benefit sooner with the established supporting cast he's with now and Hall will come later as his whole entire team grows up together.
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
505 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  11:08:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really do not know.

Hall plays with Eberle, so they should devellop well playing on the same line.

Seguin (courtesy of the leafs) could be playing with croutier next year, which would also be an amazing dynamic duo.

Two options: 1. Flip a coin. 2. Wait a few years.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
575 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  12:04:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It depends, Hall has a raw offensive talent. He has the potential to be in the top 10 scorers, however, he might noty figure it out while seguin definitely will, But seguin probably won't ever put up big numbers

Go OILERS Go!!!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  14:25:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

It depends, Hall has a raw offensive talent. He has the potential to be in the top 10 scorers, however, he might noty figure it out while seguin definitely will, But seguin probably won't ever put up big numbers

Go OILERS Go!!!



Why won't Seguin put up big numbers?? He put up as many points as Hall did last season in the same league playing on a far inferiour team. Making the statement that he won't put up big numbers is completely unfounded on anything. Considering both Hall and Seguin did put up the same last season, is that not also saying that Hall won't ever put up big numbers too??

Might want to take a quick look at the stat page today. Hall and Seguin are tied in points. Only Hall has played one more game, and Seguin plays an average of 3 fewer minutes per game.

One of them is also -5 playing with his teams top line and the other is even playing mostly 2nd and 3rd line.


I personally believe that Seguin will be a better overall player. He might produce SLIGHTLY few points but will be a better 2 way player. However, Hall is more marketable and charasmatic which makes him a better draw with the fickle Edmonton fan.

I liken the 2 to be a Toews vs Kane comparison. Hall will be more like Kane. Flashier, slighty more productive, and more Hollywood. Seguin will be more like Toews in less flashy, slightly few points, better defensively, and the kind of player than wins.
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
505 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  14:48:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, you have to take into consideration that Hall missed close to 10 games playing in the world juniors that would have put him at least 5 points ahead of Seguin.

It was the same thing as Ovechkin and H.Sedin.

I like the Kane-Toews analogy.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2010 :  21:22:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Awesome One

Beans, you have to take into consideration that Hall missed close to 10 games playing in the world juniors that would have put him at least 5 points ahead of Seguin.

It was the same thing as Ovechkin and H.Sedin.

I like the Kane-Toews analogy.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".



You also have to consider that Seguin is a year younger than Hall, has played less at the same level, and did not have nearly the same talent as Hall had in Windsor.

That being said, it's hard to argue that Seguin is playing on a better team today and Hall is and that might have some impact. However, Seguin on the 3rd line should not be producing as much as Hall on the 1st line in Edmonton. To this point, I did expect more out of Hall and he plays a pretty immature game. Lots of ill advised shots, poor decisions, childish actions on the ice at times. However, he talks like he wants to get better and his team mates say all the right things about his work ethic.

If his brain matures into his skill he will be great. But I still and always have liked Seguin better. But I am not complaining about Hall being an Oiler. Still going to be great.
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
505 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2010 :  06:55:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by Awesome One

Beans, you have to take into consideration that Hall missed close to 10 games playing in the world juniors that would have put him at least 5 points ahead of Seguin.

It was the same thing as Ovechkin and H.Sedin.

I like the Kane-Toews analogy.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".



You also have to consider that Seguin is a year younger than Hall, has played less at the same level, and did not have nearly the same talent as Hall had in Windsor.

That being said, it's hard to argue that Seguin is playing on a better team today and Hall is and that might have some impact. However, Seguin on the 3rd line should not be producing as much as Hall on the 1st line in Edmonton. To this point, I did expect more out of Hall and he plays a pretty immature game. Lots of ill advised shots, poor decisions, childish actions on the ice at times. However, he talks like he wants to get better and his team mates say all the right things about his work ethic.

If his brain matures into his skill he will be great. But I still and always have liked Seguin better. But I am not complaining about Hall being an Oiler. Still going to be great.



Then me (the Bruins fan) and you (the Oilers fan) will have to wait and see.

I choose Seguin for obvious reasons.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".

Edited by - Awesome One on 11/12/2010 06:56:02
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2010 :  09:43:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hall played on a better team yes. Sequin carried his team as far as he could but Hall has won the big championships and was a major reason with the individual recognition he received. My Daughter said the same Beans comparing them to Toews and Kane before the draft. She wanted the Oil to select Sequin.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5810 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2010 :  10:52:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Awesome One
Then me (the Bruins fan) and you (the Oilers fan) will have to wait and see.

I choose Seguin for obvious reasons.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".



When you "choose Seguin for obvious reasons", i have to assume it's because you're a Bruins fan. Can you not put your bias for your favorite team in the closet for a second and answer the question at hand (without said bias)? The question wasn't "who are you more of a fan of", it was asking you who you think would be better. Now, if Seguin is your real choice and you really do feel he'll have the better career when they're done, fine, but don't support it with the reasoning that you're a fan of his.

BTW, i did like your "flip a coin or wait a couple years" comment, unfortunately the question was "who do you think.....". Somewhat of a guess i suppose, but it'll def take a few years to determine who's the better player.
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
505 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2010 :  11:53:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Awesome One
Then me (the Bruins fan) and you (the Oilers fan) will have to wait and see.

I choose Seguin for obvious reasons.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".



When you "choose Seguin for obvious reasons", i have to assume it's because you're a Bruins fan. Can you not put your bias for your favorite team in the closet for a second and answer the question at hand (without said bias)? The question wasn't "who are you more of a fan of", it was asking you who you think would be better. Now, if Seguin is your real choice and you really do feel he'll have the better career when they're done, fine, but don't support it with the reasoning that you're a fan of his.

BTW, i did like your "flip a coin or wait a couple years" comment, unfortunately the question was "who do you think.....". Somewhat of a guess i suppose, but it'll def take a few years to determine who's the better player.



Even without my bias, I think Seguin will have a better career.

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2010 :  17:19:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also feel Tyler Seguin will go on to have the better NHL career.

Taylor Hall may be more productive, early on. But I believe that over time, Seguin will turn in to the more complete player. I also believe, Seguin will end up trumping in production, as well. He just may start out a little slower, but within a few seasons (2-3), i think Seguin will be the better of the two. Especially, as a more rounded player.

As mentioned, both players put up very similar numbers in the CHL. But, Hall had a far superior team. And, i mean far superior.

That being said, that does not really take away from Hall's skill of course. But I feel that Hall's production and outlook on his skill, was slightly skewed due to his surroundings of teammates when compared to Tyler Seguin.

Seguin is more of the quiet type, especially, if compared to Hall. And I just see him working harder, and more capable of rounding out his game.

Irvine/prez.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5810 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2010 :  23:40:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by irvine

I also feel Tyler Seguin will go on to have the better NHL career.

Taylor Hall may be more productive, early on. But I believe that over time, Seguin will turn in to the more complete player. I also believe, Seguin will end up trumping in production, as well. He just may start out a little slower, but within a few seasons (2-3), i think Seguin will be the better of the two. Especially, as a more rounded player.

As mentioned, both players put up very similar numbers in the CHL. But, Hall had a far superior team. And, i mean far superior.

That being said, that does not really take away from Hall's skill of course. But I feel that Hall's production and outlook on his skill, was slightly skewed due to his surroundings of teammates when compared to Tyler Seguin.

Seguin is more of the quiet type, especially, if compared to Hall. And I just see him working harder, and more capable of rounding out his game.

Irvine/prez.



Awesome One, read this little bit above please. Already have? Read it again! This you will see, is how you support your opinion.
Thanks Irv...
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
505 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  09:20:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay Alex, here we go.

I definitly think Seguin will mold into a really good all-around player (much like Jonathan Toews) and that will fit the Bruins well considering they already have some develloping young snipers.

With that being said, Hall seems to have more offensive skill which should seem to help the Oilers in the near future.

I predict that both of them will go on to have great careers, with Hall turning out to be more of a goal scorer and Seguin trning out to be a two-way playmaker, but Seguin's unique skill set of havin great all-around abilities will cement himself with a better career.

Is this good enough?

There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3598 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  09:58:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
seriously, both have played less than 20 NHL games in their entire career. So many things can happen - both hockey-related and not - to promote or derail one career over another.

Flip a coin.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  13:53:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How the hell can any1 make this prediction right now ?? utter nonsense, guess work on any1`s part.

Beans you know you can`t compare what Hall is doing on the Oilers to what Seguin is doing on the Bruins, apples to oranges. Seguin is playing on one of the top teams in the league...Hall is playing ( right now ) with the bottom of the barrell in the NHL.

Look at the puck control (minutes) the Bruins have in the opposing end compared to the Oilers in the opposing teams end. This is the stat that really matters when comparing these two ( points wise ), a stat that really matters, a stat that don`t show up anywhere. Not 2 - 3 mins. less per game or line combo`s.....this is why i keep saying its not all stats when looking at players....

Maybe if Hall was playing with Boston he`d have 12 points.....
Maybe if Seguin was with the oilers he wouldn`t have 1 point...
Who nows ??
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  14:02:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Damn, everyone keeps saying how great Seguin will become, haven`t watched him play much myself. I certainly don`t wish ill - will on the young player but if all you guys are right...

I`m a leafs fan....damn i`m gonna be sick..

Can you imagine if the leafs keep tanking this year and Boston gets another top 3 pick, potential all - star player....

Damn i`m getting sicker..
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  15:55:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

How the hell can any1 make this prediction right now ?? utter nonsense, guess work on any1`s part.

Beans you know you can`t compare what Hall is doing on the Oilers to what Seguin is doing on the Bruins, apples to oranges. Seguin is playing on one of the top teams in the league...Hall is playing ( right now ) with the bottom of the barrell in the NHL.

Look at the puck control (minutes) the Bruins have in the opposing end compared to the Oilers in the opposing teams end. This is the stat that really matters when comparing these two ( points wise ), a stat that really matters, a stat that don`t show up anywhere. Not 2 - 3 mins. less per game or line combo`s.....this is why i keep saying its not all stats when looking at players....

Maybe if Hall was playing with Boston he`d have 12 points.....
Maybe if Seguin was with the oilers he wouldn`t have 1 point...
Who nows ??




Pick a side and stay there. If you are changing your mind, say it. Take a look back in the Toronto Maple Leafs thread and see how often you talked Seguin down for not producing as much as Hall in Juniors and refutting the two playing on different teams. Now, you bring up the exact same point you were arguing against before.

Bottom line, Hall plays minutes more a game with Hemsky and Horcoff, including PP time. Seguin plays 3rd line minutes with Recchi and Paille(I think) and get little to no time when the game is actually on the line.

Hall should have more points than Seguin at this point looking at the opportunity of both players.
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
450 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  16:56:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

How the hell can any1 make this prediction right now ?? utter nonsense, guess work on any1`s part.

Beans you know you can`t compare what Hall is doing on the Oilers to what Seguin is doing on the Bruins, apples to oranges. Seguin is playing on one of the top teams in the league...Hall is playing ( right now ) with the bottom of the barrell in the NHL.

Look at the puck control (minutes) the Bruins have in the opposing end compared to the Oilers in the opposing teams end. This is the stat that really matters when comparing these two ( points wise ), a stat that really matters, a stat that don`t show up anywhere. Not 2 - 3 mins. less per game or line combo`s.....this is why i keep saying its not all stats when looking at players....

Maybe if Hall was playing with Boston he`d have 12 points.....
Maybe if Seguin was with the oilers he wouldn`t have 1 point...
Who nows ??


Apples are better tasting then oranges.

The Monkey is me
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  19:29:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You totally missed my point again Beans, as always. My point is that Seguin is on a TOP team who has a lot of puck control, Hall is on a GARBAGE team who never has the puck. Why is it you never comment on my main point ??

You just continually pick out some comments and dwell on them and twist comments to suit yourself.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
575 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2010 :  20:28:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, you seem like you're disagreeing with me just for the sake of it.

Go OILERS Go!!!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2010 :  07:57:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off Duke, your point was that Seguin would put up worse numbers on a worse team was it not?? That was the exact opposite of your argument regarding Seguin when we were discussing the Kessel deal, so I am calling it out.

And Sashis, I am not disagreeing with you, I am disagreeing with the opinion that Seguin will never put up big numbers and Hall is a better raw offensive player. I simply do not agree. Using their junior careers as an indicator, Hall put up the same numbers as Seguin last season playing in few games but on a far superior team. Hall also had one more year(3 in total) in juniors than Seguin did. If you compare their 2nd years in Junior Hockey:

Hall - 63 games, 38Goals, 52 assists, for 90 points
Seguin - 63 games, 48 goals, 58 assists, 106 points


My point is that you can not say that Hall is a significantly better raw offensive talent when their production is the same or in some cases Seguin is better. You also can not say that Seguin will not put up big numbers and Hall will when their careers to this point are very similar.

I disagee with opinions, not people.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2010 :  16:43:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans looking at these players numbers in junior hockey is nonsense. As i said before Matthew Barnaby had over a 100 point season in junior hockey. We all know what a sniper he turned out to be in the NHL.

Danny Cleary, whose hometown is 10 mins. from me put up astounding numbers early in his junior career. If i`m not mistaken, one year he was close to Mario Lemieux junior type numbers.

He has done great for himself since joining Detroit but struggled for years with many problems pre-Red-Wings. Who knows what these kids are gonna do ??
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8190 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2010 :  17:27:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Beans looking at these players numbers in junior hockey is nonsense. As i said before Matthew Barnaby had over a 100 point season in junior hockey. We all know what a sniper he turned out to be in the NHL.

Danny Cleary, whose hometown is 10 mins. from me put up astounding numbers early in his junior career. If i`m not mistaken, one year he was close to Mario Lemieux junior type numbers.

He has done great for himself since joining Detroit but struggled for years with many problems pre-Red-Wings. Who knows what these kids are gonna do ??



I can't argue that a player's junior career does not tell what a player will do. However, when comparing 2 players that are rookies, what else do you use?? That's what pro scouts use, is it not???

And Dan Cleary's best junior season was 115 points. Mario Lemieux has junior seasons of 96, 184, and 232.

Lemiuex has more goals (133) in his final year of juniors than Cleary had points in his best junior season.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2010 :  14:37:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Was not sure of Clearys junior numbers...i just remember a long time ago some1 in the media comparing his stats to Lemieux at some point in the season.

Maybe it was 30 - 35 games in or something, or maybe it was both of their first year junior numbers.

I think Cleary played junior @ 15 years old...maybe it was their first junior season numbers.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4607 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2010 :  19:24:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I say Hall, for a totally different reason than anyone has said:

Hall will be on the offensive, fast skating Oilers for years to come, for the forseeable future. Lots of high paced scoring is what this team looks to be developing into. Even on a terrible team, he gets his chances left and right.

Seguin, on the other hand, is already on a top contender - a very defensive one, that is. He will never move up to the top line unless he really blossoms, and he will have to blossom under a suffocating defensive system. Boston is famous for containing the offensive prowess of its forwards, save for Savard on the top line. There isn't a whole lot of stats padding here, even on a team as good as Boston.

I think they may be pretty even skill wise, and since we can't tell so perfectly who will develop further into a real superstar, I go with the player who get twice as many chances to score, more ice time, playing an offensive system.

Hall.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
575 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2010 :  18:02:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hall is more like kane. seguin is more like toews

Go OILERS Go!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5810 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2010 :  18:39:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
hall is more like kane. seguin is more like toews



sahis, you come up with that yourself?


quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I liken the 2 to be a Toews vs Kane comparison. Hall will be more like Kane. Flashier, slighty more productive, and more Hollywood. Seguin will be more like Toews in less flashy, slightly few points, better defensively, and the kind of player than wins.

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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
450 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2010 :  19:19:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

hall is more like kane. seguin is more like toews

Go OILERS Go!!!


(response to Beans comment)(took less effort to choose this one though)
Though Hall is Flashier then Seguin, I don't find much flashy or exciting about Kane. Toews is Flashy defensive and a leader, Kane is just a wimp with speed and decent dangling skills

The Monkey is me
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1910 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2010 :  11:12:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Having watched a few games early on for the Oilers this season , I am impressed with Hall, but in no way blown away. I dont believe that Hall and the cast of 1st and second year forwards, have enough veteran presence to help develop Hall in Edmonton. Having thrust upon him this year on the 1st line and powerplay without building his game on the 2nd and 3rd lines, could put pressure on Hall which may hinder his development.

If Sequin is developed properly, like the Bruins no how to do, he will become the better player, stats and ability. This opinion is based on the fact that the Bruins will not rush him or put him in positions he is not ready and they have a better cast of veteran player around him to help him develop. He will earn playing time on the toip line if he is worth it, rather than Hall who will have playing time thrust upon him whether he is ready for it or not.

Reverse the player's on the other team and my opinion stays with the player the Bruin's develop.
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
278 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2010 :  14:03:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i saw last year in the memorial cup and he dominated everyone, but in the nhl he really hasnt done that
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Yewcandoit
Rookie



Canada
115 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2010 :  18:34:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hall may turn out to be another Hemsky.

Who knows?

But I do think Hall will have a more successful career than Seguin.
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