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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2010 : 07:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
So now they have a 2 game winning streak......still calling for his head?
Yep. Absolutely. They did not look good against Ottawa at all and their 2 wins come against the 2nd worst team in the league and a team that has a tandem of junior B goalies.
Still calling for his head, absolutely. Mark my words, Caps will make the playoffs because they are far too talented not to but they will not make the conference finals. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 08:06:46
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So TBar, let's put you on the spot and see if you have any kind of real well thought-out opinion then:
Why would YOU keep the coach around with this team?
Is it just based on their record?
Is it based on the stylish and hip way that Boudreau swears on tv?
Is it based on Boudreau's very good relationship with Ovechkin?
Is it based on Boudreau getting to the playoffs the last two years?
Is it based on the Caps getting beat by a less talented team each playoff run?
Is it based on you thinking the team wouldn't do any better with anyone else?
Is it based on the feeling that mid-season change isn't good for the team?
Because before I answer your rhetorical, smart-alec question, I want you to answer mine. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 09:27:06
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mostly because he swears on TV!
I will actually answer your question yet Slozo if I can find some time in the near future. |
Edited by - tbar on 12/22/2010 09:29:42 |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 10:58:23
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
mostly because he swears on TV!
I will actually answer your question yet Slozo if I can find some time in the near future.
No worries, Tbar . . . you already did.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 09:24:36
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| Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this Slozo.....but i figured I would just let time tell the tail. So roughly 10 games left, 1 point back of Philly for tops in the ast on a 9 game win streak, I suppose BB is doing a crappy job? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 09:42:39
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We will see in the playoffs what happens to Washington when Mr. Magoo is sitting behind the bench with that confused look on his face when his team gets punted 1st or 2nd round for the 4th straight season.
Any coach with a talented team can do well in the regular season. We will see what happens in the playoffs when coaching actually matter. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 10:08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this Slozo.....but i figured I would just let time tell the tail. So roughly 10 games left, 1 point back of Philly for tops in the ast on a 9 game win streak, I suppose BB is doing a crappy job?
Ah, I see. Your technique is to let enough time pass until you can point to a winning streak.
Priceless. And you were the one accusing us of piling on during the losing streak! You can't have it both ways . . .
Still waiting for you to answer my specific questions on why you would keep Boudreau.
And just to be clear, it's not that I cannot accept someone disagreeing with me - I am sure there are valid reasons for keeping Boudreau - but you just haven't stated anything beyond "they'll start winning soon, you'll see!" during a losing streak, and "they're winning!" during a winning streak.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 11:54:27
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Ok so I can’t point to a winning streak but you can point to a losing streak? You have not posted one good reason to fire him IMO. He hasn’t won in the playoffs is all you and Beans have said, and I’m pretty sure I argued that point just fine....so if the shoe fits...
Anyways here is why I would not fire BB....Because I am not the GM!
obviously all of us on here do not have the privilege to be a part of the Washington Capitals, so we have no real good idea what the room is like. We got a glimpse from the HBO 24/7 series and it happened to be during the bad stretch. People here were saying he lost the room. Is this fact or speculation? I’ll go with speculation. Sometimes as a good coach you have to walk a fine line with your players in good and bad streaks to get or keep them going. I’m confident he knows where that line is and he walked it.
His record in the Playoffs.....now I have said in previous posts why I believe they lost in the playoffs please refer to those.
"Is it based on you thinking the team wouldn't do any better with anyone else?" I have no idea how a different coach would do in this organization. I guess if BB gets fired sometime soon we will find out.
"Is it based on the feeling that mid-season change isn't good for the team?" Not at all I think we can look back to Pittsburg a few years ago when they won the Cup. They had a late coaching change and it did the team wonders.
"Is it based on Boudreau's very good relationship with Ovechkin?" I don’t hang out with either of them so I have no idea if this is fact.
"Is it based on the Caps getting beat by a less talented team each playoff run?" I don’t think they got so much beat bye a team or a coach as Beans would say but a goalie last year. My turn..so are you telling me the Pens should have fired there coach because they got beat by this same less talented team with an exceptionally hot goaltender? And remember he is 2 years removed from a cup championship and continues to win without his 2 best players.
At the end of the day I have no idea exactly what BB strengths and weaknesses are. From what I saw in the HBO series I would say he is a very passionate coach and he lives on the edge while at the rink. I also believe his team (based on what I saw) was just fine with that. He works hard scouting the opposition and talking with the members of his staff to give his team the best possible chance to win each night. and he wins allot of games. Beans would probably argue that a weakness is he didn’t change strategy against the habs last year. My question is why would you want to when you’re out playing them so badly. You have to keep going with it and hope the horse shoe falls out. Unfortunately for the Caps and Pens that didn’t happen till the Habs walked into Philly and lost.
And just to hammer this point I would like you guys to remember we are not GM's. Now as a GM you get to hire and FIRE you coaches as you see fit. Now I may not be certain but I am pretty sure every GM in the league knows what’s going on in the room, how the players feel about the coach etc. etc. I am confident that the Caps GM would have relieved BB of his duties if he saw the need. i mean Lord knows any and every GM in the league know a hell of a lot more about hockey then you, myself or any other person on this site.
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Edited by - tbar on 03/16/2011 12:51:22 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 13:09:59
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What does me being or not being a GM have to do with me having an opinion?? I fail to appreciate the point you are making??
Finally, the GM and owner of the Caps have millions upon millions of dollars tied up in the Caps and winning is the return. The return on ticket sales, marketing, etc goes through the roof when a team wins.
When an owner fronts the cash and the GM builds a team that finishes in the top of their conference for what appears to now be 4 straight years and they do not make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, who's fault is that??? Really, explain that to me.
Mark my words, in both Vancouver and Washington, if they don't get play past the 2nd round of the playoffs (at the least) then both coaches are gone.
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 13:18:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What does me being or not being a GM have to do with me having an opinion?? I fail to appreciate the point you are making??
Finally, the GM and owner of the Caps have millions upon millions of dollars tied up in the Caps and winning is the return. The return on ticket sales, marketing, etc goes through the roof when a team wins.
When an owner fronts the cash and the GM builds a team that finishes in the top of their conference for what appears to now be 4 straight years and they do not make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, who's fault is that??? Really, explain that to me.
Mark my words, in both Vancouver and Washington, if they don't get play past the 2nd round of the playoffs (at the least) then both coaches are gone.
I love it you dont answer the questions I had you just say "what does me not being a GM have anything to do with it?"
Is the Playoffs your only respnse this entire time? YUP! So you want me to call the Pens GM and let him know they should fire the coach because they ALSO LOST TO MTL??????
Come on guys have you ever played sports? Im sure you have regardless of the sport you must have at some point in your life been on the team that should win. I know I have and I have lost. Sometimes nothing goes your way even thow you dominate in every aspect of the game except in washingtons case barying the puck. How can BB be at fault for a HOT MTL Goaltender? |
Edited by - tbar on 03/16/2011 13:21:41 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 13:37:22
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Ok, Tbar, what was the question. I have read your post three times now and I don't see what the relevant question is. You asked various questions but answered them yourself to try to prove your point.
You also seem to be missing the point that this is not a one time thing. Since Boudreau started coaching
09/10 - President's Trophy Winner - Lost in 1st round
08/09 - SW Division winner (108 pts) - Lost in 2nd round
07/08 - SW Division winner (94 pts) - Lost in 1st round
BB's record as coach of the Caps is effectivelly 181 wins and 114 losses(38 in OT). In the playoffs he is 13-15.
This is not a hot goalie, this is three straight years of losing to lower seeded teams. The one series they did win (against the NYR) they were the #2 seed in the East and they were on the ropes(down 3 games to one) against the #7 seed in the Rangers and needed to win the final 3 games. Their entire season came down to a goal by Fedorov with 5 minutes left in the 3rd period.
This is not a flash in the pan. BB has shown for three straight years to take one of the best teams into the playoffs and not perform. This is his last crack. Regardless of why he loses, if Washington does not make the East finals at least, he is toast.
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
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Is the Playoffs your only respnse this entire time? YUP!
If the playoffs are your only excuse for firing the guy, THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH IMO. If you have a team of all-stars win 82 games in the regular season then get swept by the 8th place team, is your coach diong enough? NO WAY!
Bring back the Jets! |
Edited by - doublechamp7 on 03/16/2011 14:03:13 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:10:55
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Doublechamp, what about 3 years in a row??? Then what??? People are completely missing that boat. Sure, some can argue that the Caps were beat by Halak last year. I would argue that it was Halak and Martin, but who cares. What about Washington barely beating the #7 seed Rangers and then losing to Pittsburgh in 08. Granted Pitt went on to the Cup but Washington was the higher seed with home ice advantage. Whavt about 07 when Washington lost to the #6 seed Philadelphia Flyers in the 1st round???
This is not a flash in the pan guys. 3 straight years of winning the division, once having the most points in the league in the regular season and one single playoff series win???
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:14:25
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Beans, I agree with you! Imsaying it doesn't matter how good you do in the regular season, if you cant do it in the playoffs then the coach should be gone!
Bring back the Jets! |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:14:58
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Well if the playoffs are a good enough reason to fire him and he has not been fired give me a few reasons why?
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 15:02:02
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Well, I think you did answer some of those questions yourself. If he has a great relationship with the Ovechkin, that's valuable. If he is super passionate and a good leader, that is another reason. There is not denying that he has produced in the regular season. But that only goes so far.
This situation much like the SJ situation of the past. Super strong regular season team but always cracked in the playoffs. Wilson didn't really do the job in the playoffs so he gets punted and McLellan take them to the 3rd round.
Reg season means something and that have given BB his chances. However, I don't believe one can argue if this season they get bounced early again. 4 straight season??? Also, I don't think anyone can argue that he has been out-coached in virtually every play-off series from Martin to Bylsma. Tortorella out-coached him but simply didn't have the horses to finish the job.
Playoff hockey is quick and effective changes to game plans based on the opponent. It is not the best team wins. It's the team that executes the best that wins. This is not a grind it out over 82 games doing the same thing and the most talented teams will come out ahead in the long run. This is 7 games, do or die, and if you can't change to match your opponent then you lose. Just like Washington couldn't do last year against Montreal. Just like Vancouver couldn't do against Chicago. Just like Anaheim, San Jose, and Detroit couldn't do against the sad-sack '06 Oilers who were a far inferior team that executed 3 different strategies against 3 different teams.
BB has not proven he's got the chops to alter game plans and have his team execute. Everyone talks about how Halak beat the Caps and no one talks about the defensive PK that completely shut down the Caps #1 PP or how Montreal completely owned the neutral zone both offensively and defensively. BB had nothing to combat that. He changed nothing and they lost. |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 09:11:57
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Beans "However, I don't believe one can argue if this season they get bounced early again. 4 straight season??? "
I'll agree if they get beat first Two rounds they are probablly going to have to let him go.
I find it funny however that no one was calling for his head (that I saw) in the playoffs last year. The only time I saw anyone getting hot and botherd about how he needs to go was on the loseing streak.
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Guest2712
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Posted - 03/17/2011 : 09:58:39
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tbar: kind of hard to fire a coach when he leads them to the Preidents Trophy. i beleive the first time in the Caps history?
but i'd have to agree that he may not be cut the same slack if they bow out early again this year.
i suppose it depends on who's available to replace him. the Caps are a cup contender, so they'd need the right coach to make sure they can do that extra mile. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 11:43:22
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Beans "However, I don't believe one can argue if this season they get bounced early again. 4 straight season??? "
I'll agree if they get beat first Two rounds they are probablly going to have to let him go.
I find it funny however that no one was calling for his head (that I saw) in the playoffs last year. The only time I saw anyone getting hot and botherd about how he needs to go was on the loseing streak.
You wanted the Best!! You Got the Best!!! (Insert Kiss chant here)
Here is the link to the thread started by Slozo last year directly after the Habs bat the Caps. Take a look at how many people were calling down BB at that time. And it wasn't just me.
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11076 |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/17/2011 11:43:53 |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 13:02:08
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Haha first time ive seen that thread.....wasnt around much last year during the playoffs....anyway I love the first posts bye you and Slozo you state exactly what I said. Its only once someone eelse fires out the coach when you guys get in on it. But either way BB will not get fired the Caps will get the the confrence finals and have a good chance to get to the cup. How would you say it Beans.....Mark my words!??
But you did say it back then so ill give you a little credit on that. I will re visit this thread in say 2 or so months and we can continue this. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2011 : 15:02:02
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Wish the leafs would hire Hiscock 
B.B seems to be in trouble in Washington. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2011 : 10:06:45
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Duke, I think you intended on saying Hitchcock. The other guy is not really that smart, kind of has a mind of his own, and really loses focus when women are present.
If you hired that guy you would be only slightly better than Wilson. Hitchcock would be significantly better than Wilson.
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Guest4178
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Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:35:52
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I looked back to see the most recent team which resembles Washington's current situation, and while it's not an exact match, Detroit went a stretch of 3 season with terrific regular season results, yet a lack of playoff success:
2001-2002: Won the Stanley Cup
2002-2003: Finished 3rd overall, bounced in the first round
2003-2004: Finished 1st overall, bounced in the second round
2005-2006: Finished 1st overall, bounced in the first round
2006-2007: Finished 1st overall, lost in semifinals to Anaheim
2007-2008: Finished 1st overall, Won the Stanley Cup
In looking at Detroit's record, one might argue that Washington's 3-year record resembles Detroit's 3-year stretch from 2003-2006. But here's the key ingredient.
Bowman was the Head Coach for the 2002 Cup win, and Dave Lewis (Bowman's assistant) was given a 3-year deal to take over from Scotty. While the team did well in the regular season under Lewis, they faltered in the playoffs, going 6-10 in the 2003 and 2004 playoffs.
Babcock was hired after the lockout, and while his first season behind Detroit's bench during the regular season was quite successful (finishing 1st overall), the team fell to the miracle Oilers in the first round of the playoffs.
Babcock guided the team to 1st overall in the 2006-2007 season, and they lost to Anaheim in the semifinals. But for the 2007-2008 season, the Wings won the President's Trophy and Stanley Cup that year! (And Babcock remains the head coach today.)
What does this all mean? My opinion is that Washington (George McPhee) is being very patient with Boudreau as the head coach. It's time for Washington to "pony up" in the playoffs. The caps are kinda "pot committed" with Boudreau right now. They're not going to change their head coach at this stage of the season, but if the Caps don't make it past the first round (I'm actually betting that they do), Boudreau should and will be toast! |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:42:25
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| Just to be clear, Dave Lewis was fired after his second season as Detroit's head coach. (Demoted to a scouting position with the team.) He only coached the team for two seasons, before Babcock took over. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 07:56:49
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Guest 4178 - I appreciate the effort in your analogy, but I can't see if there is anything we can take from that, for one simple fact:
Washington has never won a Stanley cup. This core of players has never been past the second round.
We really have no idea if they have what it takes to win, frankly.
You may be right in the part about being patient with the coach, but in my mind, Boudreau would have already been fired if not for his very good relationship with Ovechkin. And sure, upsets happen, and who knows, Boudreau could prove my opinion of him wrong and win the cup . . . but then again, at that point, I may just point to amazing player performances, and not the coaching, as a reason why they finally made it.
I hear you though, and without totally backpedalling . . . yeah, sometimes it's a learning process for a coach as well, and who knows, maybe Boudreau is on that road.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Capitals coach!!! 
