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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2011 : 05:41:04
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The ageless Teemu Selanne scored his 13th and 14th goals of the season, and it seems like father time has not slowed this guy down too much. He has rolled past Dino Cicarrelli (608) and Bobby Hull (610) this year already on the all-time goal scoring list into 15th spot, and is currently at 620 - 5 away from passing Sakic.
How far up the list will he go? When will this guy finally pack it in as a result of diminished hockey skills (or for other reasons)?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 05:45:21
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The all time list of goal scorers, regular season NHL, that Teemu Selanne is crawling upwards on:
1. Gretzky, 894
2. Messier, 801
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9. Mario Lemieux, 690
10.Luc Robitaille, 668
11.Brendan Shanahan, 656
12. Jaromir Jagr, 646
13.Dave Andreychuk, 640
14. Teemu Selanne, 626
15.Joe Sakic, 625
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 03/02/2011 07:13:27 |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 06:08:30
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It be real nice to see a former jet get into top ten all time scoring before he retires !
Only 49 more goals, if he stays around for one more season after this, he should get it. |
Edited by - semin-rules on 01/17/2011 08:57:39 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 07:11:09
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| Top 10? I think we have to assume he'll slow down at least slightly if he does play another year so that's 50 goals he'd need between now and then. Let's say another 15 this year (and that's no guarantee)? That would still leave 35 for next year. I don't see that happening personally but who knows. He's been a great player, there's no doubting that! |
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Guest9836
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Posted - 01/17/2011 : 07:28:13
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Selanne and Lidstrom are drinking from the same fountain...
I mean c'mon Selanne has 41 pts in 39 games that is incredible, for a 40 year old seemingly impossible.
My hats off to the flash, but I hope he doesn't keep going just to keep going and end his career on a low. |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 08:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Top 10? I think we have to assume he'll slow down at least slightly if he does play another year so that's 50 goals he'd need between now and then. Let's say another 15 this year (and that's no guarantee)? That would still leave 35 for next year. I don't see that happening personally but who knows. He's been a great player, there's no doubting that!
if he gets fifteen more this year (which I think he will get more), he will only need 34 next year, and if he does play next year and plays all 82 games, he will only need to get a goal every 3 ish games and he will get it. I don't think it is that much of an unrealistic goal.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 09:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Top 10? I think we have to assume he'll slow down at least slightly if he does play another year so that's 50 goals he'd need between now and then. Let's say another 15 this year (and that's no guarantee)? That would still leave 35 for next year. I don't see that happening personally but who knows. He's been a great player, there's no doubting that!
if he gets fifteen more this year, he will only need 22 next year, and if he does play next year and plays all 82 games, he will only need to get a goal every 4 games and he will get it. I don't think it is that much of an unrealistic goal.
Semin, one of us is struggling with math this Monday morning. That'd only get him to 11th, one ahead of Shanny.  You did say top 10, no? You even said in your first post that he needs 49 more! IF, he gets 15 more this year, that's still 34 more next year! I think he'd be in tough for that. That's saying he'd improve on this year, which has already been amazing! |
Edited by - Alex116 on 01/17/2011 09:03:25 |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 09:02:22
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Haha it's still early this morning ! I fixed my math  |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 09:05:08
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| LOL, it's not impossible by any means as this guy just keeps on scoring it seems, but 30+ next year for a guy who's already in his 40's??? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 09:11:41
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It really is amazing when you see a player like Selanne do what he is doing this year as it is so rare. He has been the model of consistancy not seen in the NHL since Mike Gartner. 15 out of 17 years with more than 20 goals. One of those 2 off seasons was injury shortened to 26 games so he has really had just one off season in nearly 2 decades. Throw in 9 of those 17 years as 30+ goals, 7 seasons of 40+, 3 seasons of 50+, and the rookie record and tied for the 5th highest single season goal total of 76.
All this means first ballot HOFer. No doubt.
For a HOFer to still be pumping out 30+ goals as a 40 yr old is simply amazing. Enjoy the ride. Watch him as often as you can. This doesn't happen every day.
How long will he continue?? As long as it's still fun for the guy. Considering that last season he cut the back of his leg pretty bad on a skate in Edmonton and rehabed to come back, he still shows to have love for the game.
Frankly, I would love to see him for another year or two. Just don't stick around too long as a legacy can be soured with a poor final or few final years. Just as Jeremy Roenick. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 09:36:23
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Mark "wreckin' ball" Recchi is still playing, why wouldn't Selanne if healthy?
"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.” - Brian Burke |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 01/17/2011 : 10:22:29
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File it under the "what ifs," but just imagine if Selanne started his pro career in the NHL. He played in Finland until he was 22 years old, which kinda explains how we he was rookie-of-the-year, scoring an unbelievable 76 goals in the process.
This record ranks right up there with Gretzky's 50 goals in 39 games, one that is very unlikely to be broken in our lifetimes. (Unless they make the nets bigger, or expand to 50 teams.)
Great player, and a great guy off the ice too! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 10:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4178
File it under the "what ifs," but just imagine if Selanne started his pro career in the NHL. He played in Finland until he was 22 years old, which kinda explains how we he was rookie-of-the-year, scoring an unbelievable 76 goals in the process.
This record ranks right up there with Gretzky's 50 goals in 39 games, one that is very unlikely to be broken in our lifetimes. (Unless they make the nets bigger, or expand to 50 teams.)
Great player, and a great guy off the ice too!
Here, here! I know a former boss of mine was playing golf at Pebble Beach and actually got paired up with Selanne and one of his friends. Apparently his the the nicest guys around and very generous. It's not just a media thing saying he's a nice guy or he's a certain way in front of the camera.
He is aces in my books. |
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 12:57:05
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would love to see him in the top 10 a great player and surely a HOFer!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 13:16:56
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IMO, Lemieux is out of reach . . . and after that, it's doable to catch Robitaille perhaps but he'd have to play two more seasons and perform close to what he has done already.
I say he ends up around Jagr and Andreychuk, 12th or 13th . . . projecting he finishes the year off with another 12 goals, then gets 22 the next year and retires in the off-season afterward.
It has been an amazing career, and of note, he does not look slow out there on the wing.
I met him briefly in person (enough to say hi) way back when he went everywhere with Kariya, and the way he conducted himself was as classy as you can get.
Here's hoping he goes out with dignity.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 14:34:19
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There is 34 games left in their season. Teemu has 14 goals, and with the rate he is playing I am assuming he will score let's say 21 more. That's 35 on the year. I know it is a little much but just for the sake of arguement I'll say that, Tht would put him 13th all time. Only needing 28 more to get to top ten. I am sure he will play another year after this and I don't think he is going to slow down so I believe he can do it !
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Edited by - semin-rules on 01/17/2011 14:36:31 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 18:05:31
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I agree with Slozo that Lemieux is likely out of reach.
If he plays this season and 1 more he may well make it into 10th spot all-time. That's 25 or so this year, maybe close to the same next year. Even if he played a 3rd year I don't think he'll reach Lemieux in that season. BUT....if he played until he was 43 we could see him pass Lemieux, however I suspect he'll hang it up before then. Having said that, maybe that's a driving factor for such a great competitor, imagine being able to say that you scored more goals than Mario Lemieux! 
Classy guy, deserving of such a long career. He had some great goal celebrations too....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptnM8KZwleg&feature=related
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 18:09:02
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| Just noticed that sadly both the teams in my link above are gone. Aaahhhh, the good ol' days. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 18:29:54
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Thanks for that link, Leigh . . . man. Incredible. They are celebrating Selanne breaking the all-time rookie scoring record held by Bossy, he gets 55 goals . . . and he will go on to score an incredible 21 more!! Magic, and record obliterated.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2011 : 07:30:30
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Both Selanne & Lidstrom defy logic, just incredible the level they continue to play at at 40. Selanne has 57 points in 54 games, including 20 goals & a +4 (a team full of minuses...with the exception of Toni Lydman's +24 wtf!). This was supposed to be Selanne's last season, but the way he's been playing, who knows.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 04:38:45
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. . . and the Finnish Flash continues onward in his amazing season, after his best game of the season this year - 3 goals and 2 assists in a 5-4 win - and let's not forget, a very important game in an extremely tight playoff race!
Just incredible stuff. Did you guys realise he is 10th in scoring this year now?!? 28 goals, 47 assists, 75 pts. I really didn't see him getting more than 25 goals this year, and certainly not more than 35 assists.
I will enjoy cheering him on in the playoffs.
1. Gretzky, 894
2. Messier, 801
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9. Mario Lemieux, 690
10.Luc Robitaille, 668
11.Brendan Shanahan, 656
12. Jaromir Jagr, 646
13.Dave Andreychuk, 640
14. Teemu Selanne, 634
15.Joe Sakic, 625
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 08:19:54
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Slozo, who does this guy think he is? Iginla?
I don't remember exactly what that chart was you provided a few months back re the over age 30 "goal scoring" but this guy can't be far off? Was it 35 goals or 30 goals that rarely get scored by guys who are 30+? IF it's 30, Teemu could hit that making it two guys going against the grain? If it's 35, prob not, but a darn fine season by the Finnish Flash either way!
BTW, i doubt i'll be cheering for him in the playoffs, seeing as he may well be playing the Canucks! |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 08:41:58
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| Selanne has missed 9 games this season as well. At his current PPG pace (75 points in 67 games), he'd have 85 points, which would have him tied with Perry for 5th overall! Crazy stuff for a guy just a few months shy of his 41st birthday! |
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Guest2712
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Posted - 03/29/2011 : 09:51:13
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I was betting that he would have retired at the end of last season, because one of the bigger reasons he continued to play was the Olympics and he wanted one more shot at a gold medal. What's more is that I laughed at someone this year for picking Selanne in our pool when other better projected players were available.
I don't know how Selanne does it, but good for him on working as hard as he does. He could have easily hung it up after he won the cup, but chose to keep playing. Same goes for the Olympic year. He has an obvious passion for the game, and it's great to see. |
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Guest4672
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Posted - 03/29/2011 : 15:15:52
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| Let go Teemu Selanne the only reason i watch the Winnipeg jet's.. I wonder well his Rookie record EVER be broken again.. I Dont think So.. He well play one more yr..... |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 15:25:24
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| It'd be hard to imagine any rookie ever being able to top his 76 goals. Really if you think about it, to me that is one of the most impressive records there is. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 15:38:38
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I'm bringing back this thread, thinking about where the hell to put Selanne in my draft list . . . lol, a tough task!
Anyways, gotta ask you folks - now with Jagr back in the NHL, does this close the door to Selanne passing Jagr, or is it still possible? You have to think Jagr can get another 15 or 20 in this season on a team like Philly . . . but who knows? We do know that Selanne will put those goal totals up, at the very least, I'd think, but again . . . do the wheels fall off the old wagon eventually? Who knows?!?
Give me your thoughts!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 16:52:57
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its tough to place Selanne - as you say, the wheels have to come off sometime and he's bound to have that bad season that tells him he should hang them up - is this that year?
Players in this category (Selanne, Jagr, Brodeur, Lidstrom, Recchi last year), I usually don't get. They have far more downside than upside, and there seems to always be someone that values them higher than I do. I the 3 pools I've drafted so far this year, Selanne has been taken top 100. In the top 100, I think there are better bets.
That being said, anything could happen. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 09:18:49
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
its tough to place Selanne - as you say, the wheels have to come off sometime and he's bound to have that bad season that tells him he should hang them up - is this that year?
Players in this category (Selanne, Jagr, Brodeur, Lidstrom, Recchi last year), I usually don't get. They have far more downside than upside, and there seems to always be someone that values them higher than I do. I the 3 pools I've drafted so far this year, Selanne has been taken top 100. In the top 100, I think there are better bets.
That being said, anything could happen.
Well, in my goal-heavy keeper pool I run (2pts for a goal, 1 pt for an assist, extra pts for sh, ot and hatricks) he is top 50 for sure, I'd think!
Let's put it this way:
1) He's in great shape, and is still at LEAST an average speed skater, just because he was so damn fast before
2) He still has the hand speed and touch, as seen last year
3) He will still play with Koivu, who he has phenomenal chemistry with
4) he had 16 ppg last year (3rd in the league), half his total basically, and still looks dynamite on the pp where he will once again play all year with the first unit
5) He was 21st in goals, 8th in pts last year
I mean, to put him out of the top 100 after finishing 8th last year in points? Hardly seems fair.
And let's put it this way . . . EVERYONE is likely to hugely downgrade him, so I say, keep him relatively high. I say 25 goals, 20 minimum. Give him his 30 - 40 assists.
I am pencilling him in for 25 goals, 60 pts minimum . . . going by straight points, that is top 50; for goal-heavy pools, it's probably top 50 as well.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 12:01:26
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quote:
Well, in my goal-heavy keeper pool I run (2pts for a goal, 1 pt for an assist, extra pts for sh, ot and hatricks) he is top 50 for sure, I'd think!
Do you mean top-50 forwards? When I said top 100, I meant top 100 players overall - my pools draft f, dmen, and goalies. He may be a top-50 forward, although I don't know for sure.
In one of my pools, he was chosen 89th overall. To give you an idea of the sort of forwards that were chosen after him:
- Marian Hossa (92)
- Ryan Clowe (94)
- Chris Stewart (95)
- Nathan Horton (96)
- Scott Hartnell (99)
- Tomas Plekanec (101)
- Jason Spezza (103)
- Andrew Ladd (105)
- Alex Tanguay (115)
- James Neal (122)
IMO that is an overpayment for a 41 year old forward that has produced at a high level but frankly, is overdue to show his age.
If you did mean top-50 players overall, then I disagree even more. To give you an idea of forwards chosen around the 50th pick:
38 - Eric Staal
39 - Pat Marleau
40 - Ilya Kovalchuk
44 - Rick Nash
45 - Ryan Getzlaf
47 - Rick Nash
49 - Johan Franzen
50 - Alex Semin
51 - Joe Thornton
All of those players be on my picklist before taking Selanne.
Don't get me wrong - I like Selanne, and I do think he can produce, just not necessarily at the level he did last year. I just think there is a lot more gamble taking him because he has nowhere to go but down - he's not going to suddenly shed 15 years and pot you 100 points. If he does what he did last year, then your top-100 pick is well worth it. If not....
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Edited by - nuxfan on 09/24/2011 12:07:40 |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 05:52:45
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Getzlaf 45 and Thornton 51... WHOA  |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 08:55:28
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quote:
Getzlaf 45 and Thornton 51... WHOA
It depends on the pool makeup... those placements are pretty normal, and pretty expected in our pool, given the scoring system and positional requirements. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 10:17:07
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Getzlaf 45 and Thornton 51... WHOA
It depends on the pool makeup... those placements are pretty normal, and pretty expected in our pool, given the scoring system and positional requirements.
Well, I am here to tell you that those placements are not normal, in most pools.
In most pools, maybe a few goalies, maybe a few defencemen are taken top 20.
I would take Getzlaf within that top 20 for sure, I think. Same with Thornton, and probably Semin as well (top 30 for sure).
Most mags peg Selanne in the 55 - 60 point range, with around 25 goals.
That's the same range as guys I am putting in the top 50, 60 players, and with my goal heavy pool, top 50 for sure.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 10:27:48
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| Nuxfan.....your pool most certainly MUST have some serious "positional requirements" for a guy like Getzlaf to not go top 20! EVERY one of those guys on your 2nd list would be gone well before they did in your pool if it were any pool i go in! |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 12:16:49
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And for Nash to go both 44th AND 47th? Wow! Or did you split his goals and assists, as was done with Gretzky in the 80's? BTW, I think we would all like to see your top 20.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 12:26:13
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Its a yahoo pool, so it does have serious positional requirements, and the fact is, centres that produce well are in abundance, so they drop down in overall priority. It's not a straight points pool
40% of points come from goaltending stats, therefore having at least 1 regular starting goalie (and preferrably 2) is paramount, but in a pool with 12 poolies there are only so many to go around - the first 50 picks saw 15 goalies taken.
You need to have 4 dmen, and again, you want at least 1 good one - everyone took at least one dman in the first 50, and many took 2.
For forwards, we have separate positions for C, RW, and LW, 3 of each. Quality RW and LW are harder to come by, so the top players in those positions go earlier than top C, and ones that play dual position (LW-RW, or C-LW) go faster as well.
Getzlaf and Thornton are single position centres - as good as they are, they are not necessarily a wise choice to pick near the top. Even in their positions they are overshadowed by Malkin, Crosby, Hank Sedin, and in my pool even Kopitar and Eric Staal got taken before they did (that is debatable).
I got Malkin as my first pick (12th overall), who is a C with dual posiiton. I did not take another C until the 12th round of 16 (Derek Roy), and before Getzlaf and Thornton were taken in the 4th/5th round, I drafted Bryzgalov (13th), Shea Weber (36th), and Ilya Kovalchuk (37th). Given the positional requirement and my needs, they were far better picks than Getzlaf or Thornton. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2011 : 12:33:46
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quote:
And for Nash to go both 44th AND 47th? Wow! Or did you split his goals and assists, as was done with Gretzky in the 80's? BTW, I think we would all like to see your top 20.
Ha, good catch - I must have been looking at drafts for different pools, he went in different places... For the one I mentioned above, he went 44th. 47th overall was a goalie (Crawford).
The top-20 from that draft were:
1. Ovechkin
2. D Sedin
3. Perry
4. Stamkos
5. H Sedin
6. Datsyuk (dual position C-LW)
7. Lundqvist
8. Zetterberg (dual C-LW)
9. Luongo
10. St Louis
11. Niklas Backstrom (from WSH)
12. * Malkin (dual C-LW)
13. * Bryzgalov
14. Bobby Ryan
15. Kopitar
16. Rinne
17. Howard
18. Iginla
19. Quick
20. Mike Green
* my picks
So, 6 goalies, 1 dman. The only single position centres taken were Stamkos, Hank Sedin, and Backstrom, however that is expected even in positional pools like this.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 09:17:16
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| Interesting pool! Not often you see Quick in the top 20!!! Someone is definitely counting on a big season from the Kings!!! |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 15:39:51
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I understand your pool and it makes more sense. But to bring out that pool to defend your point with Slozo is not a good exemple. Because, I think, Slozo was talking about a pool where you just try to grab the players with the most points, therefore Selanne was a top 100 and he said when a goal is worth the double as an assist, Selanne would be in the top 50, which makes sense. But you brought up all those players that were taken around 50 and 100 in your pools but it's not the same format. But really since the poolers are not going hard on centers because there is an abundance, wouldn't that bring the value up on a RW that is expected to score 55 to 60 points????
Anyway there was clearly a misunderstanding.
I drafted Steve Ott in a pool and Patrick Berglund was never drafted, that's not a good exemple of where Berglund should be drafted because my pool counts, block shots, faceoff won, hits, penalties and points. Every pool has a difference and the value of a player varies. In a pool where you can pick from waivers and have benches, a player like Gaborik would go higher then a pool where there's no substitutions during the year whatsoever. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 16:34:52
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Ok Nux, not to turn this into a discussion about your draft, but I am a bit confused by a few things. Namely, your comment that quality RW and LW go ahead of quality centres as there are fewer of them. I agree with that completely and getting back to the origins of this thread, how does that not make Selanne a high pick?? I mean, he was tied of the 4th most goals, 3rd with assists, 4th in pts, 1st in PPG, tied for 5th in GWG for RWer's. The only areas where he was not outstanding was on the +/- stats.
So help me understand, quality LW and RW are sought after yet Selanne is not a good pick?? Considering Bobby Ryan went in the top 20 in your pool and Selanne spanked him in most every offensive catagory.
I don't get it. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2011 : 18:16:06
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quote:
I don't get it.
Ryan and Selanne had very similar stats last year, both with points, +/-, and PIM, so its an interesting comparison. It sort of speaks to my point regarding Selanne - past performance does not guarantee future performance, and the odds of Selanne's performance going down next year, as a 41-year old in the NHL, is a lot higher than the odds of Ryan's performance going down. Further, there is almost zero chance of Selanne improving on last year's performance, while there is chance that Ryan will. Therein probably lies the difference in draft position.
Obviously those that drafted in my pool felt the same way, and as a result Selanne goes 145th overall, while Ryan (for example) goes in the top-20.
In all Yahoo pools drafted this year (tens of thousands of pools), Selanne was chosen 143rd overall on average, despite being the 14th ranked forward available, based on last year's stats - so clearly many feel the same way I do. However, he was drafted in 96% of all pools, so he was definitely taken. For comparison sake, Ryan was selected 11th overall on average. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 09/28/2011 18:17:10 |
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The Finnish Flash just keeps on truckin'! 
