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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2011 : 15:21:50
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=352776
This is not good news for Leaf fans or their team in general,, this guy is suppose to be their building block for the futur..... now something does have to be done but what? you can't fire wilson because that just shows Kessel he has got cart blanche to do whatever he wants, But obviously this situation can't work and how could Brian Burke trade Kessel and get fair value back?
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Guest9904
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Posted - 02/06/2011 : 15:53:38
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Media overblows everything. No goals in 10 games, gets demoted a couple lines, should serve Phil well.
Coach sends a message, player gets frustrated, says a couple things to the media, should want to prove the coach wrong and start playing better soon. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 18:10:05
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Kessel is what he is...he is a smaller / less skilled version of Dany Heatley. Both players can snipe and thats it, they bring absolutely NOTHING else to the game.
These type of players only excel while playing on a line with 2 great players who can pass the puck and are great defensively, to cover up kessel / heatley...type mistakes / turn-overs.
Ron Wilson is the most aroggant fool i have ever seen speak to the media. The man seems like a complete moron to me. Guess this sez something about B.Burke to hire this clown. Wilson has the mentality of a 1930`s - 1940`s factory floor Foreman, that doesn`t work in this modern era because for the most part you are coaching spoiled brats who are still playing X - Box. |
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 18:22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Kessel is what he is...he is a smaller / less skilled version of Dany Heatley. Both players can snipe and thats it, they bring absolutely NOTHING else to the game.
These type of players only excel while playing on a line with 2 great players who can pass the puck and are great defensively, to cover up kessel / heatley...type mistakes / turn-overs.
Ron Wilson is the most aroggant fool i have ever seen speak to the media. The man seems like a complete moron to me. Guess this sez something about B.Burke to hire this clown. Wilson has the mentality of a 1930`s - 1940`s factory floor Foreman, that doesn`t work in this modern era because for the most part you are coaching spoiled brats who are still playing X - Box.
Somebody has a ps3 obsession
First of all you are an idiot
second of all Kessel is much more of a team player then heatley
third thing why are you comparing them even though they are snipers?
4th you would know about factory floor foreman from 1930
5th drugs are bad stop
6th If you think NHL players are so bad go watch the Super Bowl
7th I want to insult you more
8th The Utemin trophy (for most rediculous posts) goes to you!
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 18:29:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Utemin
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Kessel is what he is...he is a smaller / less skilled version of Dany Heatley. Both players can snipe and thats it, they bring absolutely NOTHING else to the game.
These type of players only excel while playing on a line with 2 great players who can pass the puck and are great defensively, to cover up kessel / heatley...type mistakes / turn-overs.
Ron Wilson is the most aroggant fool i have ever seen speak to the media. The man seems like a complete moron to me. Guess this sez something about B.Burke to hire this clown. Wilson has the mentality of a 1930`s - 1940`s factory floor Foreman, that doesn`t work in this modern era because for the most part you are coaching spoiled brats who are still playing X - Box.
Somebody has a ps3 obsession
First of all you are an idiot
second of all Kessel is much more of a team player then heatley
third thing why are you comparing them even though they are snipers?
4th you would know about factory floor foreman from 1930
5th drugs are bad stop
6th If you think NHL players are so bad go watch the Super Bowl
7th I want to insult you more
8th The Utemin trophy (for most rediculous posts) goes to you!
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful
Utemin regardless of what anyone ever posts it's called the Utemin trophy for a reason.. this post makes no sense
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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TheRC
Rookie
105 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 19:22:17
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The line "Ron and I don't really talk," if even half accurate, should be proof enough that Wilson is the wrong coach for this young Leaf team. Juggling lines and occasionally re-allocating minutes when players aren't doing what you want is not enough to get the most out of young players. You *might* be able to do it coaching a team full of veterans, but developing players need support, they need strategy and they need encouragement. Hard to offer those things without, you know... talking.
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
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baumer
Top Prospect
82 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 22:00:28
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| As a die hard Leaf fan I'll say this: "FIRE RON WILSON NOW". That is all. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 22:09:21
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then what the next time Kessel is not producing he blames the new coach?
i'm not takeing sides but their is some truth to what Wilson has said Kessel can learn to be more than a 1 trick pony, the team needs him to be more,, it's not normal that a forward who has 19 goals and 15 assists be minus -22
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Lunchbox
Top Prospect
Canada
88 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 00:27:37
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I agree Pasty, there's nothing wrong with a coach benching or demoting a player if he feels that it might shake him up. What I think Kessel and Wilson did wrong was talk so openly about it to the media. Most players will say its an internal matter or not comment. Kessel has to know he's opening a can of worms when he makes the "we dont talk" comment.
...and now I just heard Wilson's reply to that on TSN. "I've had other scorers have slumps before, but it never affected the rest of their games like it has Kessel's"
Is this supposed to motivate Kessel more by slagging him to the media? Maybe Wilson wants more than 24% on the next player poll, but I cant see Kessel responding favorably to that! |
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T-RAV
Top Prospect
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 02:16:58
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This is a perfect example of the problems the Leafs are having this season. Players who refuse to play for an a**hole, and a coach that's too stubborn to admit he's an idiot.
Solution: Bench Kessel until his attitude changes (I'm sure Khadri would love the minutes) and fire Wilson in the summer (so that it doesn't look like Kessel is getting what he wants).
Every week looks more and more like Boston will be getting another Lotto Pick.
"If we succumb to a dream world, then we will wake up to a nightmare" - Jimmy Carter |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 04:29:44
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Even though Wilson is throwing yet another player under the bus, I have to say, I've seen this movie before, in Boston.
"Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men wins.” - Brian Burke |
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TheRC
Rookie
105 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 09:18:58
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I'm not saying Kessel is handling things particularily well, nor is he playing his best, but the Leafs need a coach who works with the players and tries to build them into a team, rather than somebody who juggles lines until the players figure out how to click and happily throws players under the bus when they don't perform. This isn't the olympics where you have a team full of confident veterans and only a few games to get results, this is a young team with no apparent defensive system and what seems to be a lack of confidence. Chewing out your best players when don't carry a team that is, admittedly, one of the weakest in the league isn't going to accomplish anything.
If the Leafs were winners last year who all of a sudden sucked, I'd take Wilson's side. But Wilson has led a team which used to finish just out a playoff spot to the basement, and then failed to produce a better result with an entirely new squad, one which most would agree *should* be playing better than the Leafs of a few years ago. So what if the guy was a winner in San Jose? I could have won behing the bench of that team, and probably won a few playoff rounds too.
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
Edited by - TheRC on 02/07/2011 09:20:01 |
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Guest2712
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Posted - 02/07/2011 : 10:21:41
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while i completely disagree with what Kessel said yesterday, it was nice to read today that he addressed the team in the dressing room this morning before practice, and apologized for and/or clarified his comments. telling everyone that he does not want a trade. this is something that a good team player does, and i'd like to think that Kessel is one.
now having said that, he had better come out tonight and play like he was playing at the beginning of the season. granted he'll be playing on the 3rd line, but none the less, every time he's on the ice he better make sure he leaves a lasting impression. because if he pulls another disapearing act, he will NEVER hear the end of it. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 14:36:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Utemin
[Somebody has a ps3 obsession
First of all you are an idiot
second of all Kessel is much more of a team player then heatley
third thing why are you comparing them even though they are snipers?
4th you would know about factory floor foreman from 1930
5th drugs are bad stop
6th If you think NHL players are so bad go watch the Super Bowl
7th I want to insult you more
8th The Utemin trophy (for most rediculous posts) goes to you!
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful
Not only should this post of yours be removed, YOU should be banned from posting. YOU, just called someone an idiot? Wow, hey pot, meet kettle....... |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 14:50:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
quote:
Originally posted by Utemin
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Kessel is what he is...he is a smaller / less skilled version of Dany Heatley. Both players can snipe and thats it, they bring absolutely NOTHING else to the game.
These type of players only excel while playing on a line with 2 great players who can pass the puck and are great defensively, to cover up kessel / heatley...type mistakes / turn-overs.
Ron Wilson is the most aroggant fool i have ever seen speak to the media. The man seems like a complete moron to me. Guess this sez something about B.Burke to hire this clown. Wilson has the mentality of a 1930`s - 1940`s factory floor Foreman, that doesn`t work in this modern era because for the most part you are coaching spoiled brats who are still playing X - Box.
Somebody has a ps3 obsession
First of all you are an idiot
second of all Kessel is much more of a team player then heatley
third thing why are you comparing them even though they are snipers?
4th you would know about factory floor foreman from 1930
5th drugs are bad stop
6th If you think NHL players are so bad go watch the Super Bowl
7th I want to insult you more
8th The Utemin trophy (for most rediculous posts) goes to you!
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful
Utemin regardless of what anyone ever posts it's called the Utemin trophy for a reason.. this post makes no sense
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
You tell him Pasty!
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 14:51:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Utemin
[Somebody has a ps3 obsession
First of all you are an idiot
second of all Kessel is much more of a team player then heatley
third thing why are you comparing them even though they are snipers?
4th you would know about factory floor foreman from 1930
5th drugs are bad stop
6th If you think NHL players are so bad go watch the Super Bowl
7th I want to insult you more
8th The Utemin trophy (for most rediculous posts) goes to you!
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful
Not only should this post of yours be removed, YOU should be banned from posting. YOU, just called someone an idiot? Wow, hey pot, meet kettle.......
I see Utemin is still Utemin!!!!
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 15:29:57
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Well Kessel is in a slump but he's still has a lot of chances and skating hard. The last few games I watched he got to the net, turned defenseman upside down with his speed and made the opposing team look lost except the goalie.
It's just weird that his slump started as soon as he started playing with Joey Crabb. Honnestly Joey Crabb... What is that guy even doing there, if anything he should be on the fourth line, not even, Caputi and Kadri deserves more to be there. Joey Crabb is just a filler and does nothing on the ice, he's an AHL'er. Tyler Bozak is a third liner at best. I know the Leafs are really low on top six but Versteeg or Armstrong would still be better. I say put back Versteeg with Bozak and Kessel on the first line, and put Kessel on the first pp unit. I mean Grabovski, Kulemin and MacArthur plays well 5 on 5 but nothing spectacular on the pp. So why not try something like Grabovski, Kulemin and Kessel on the pp. Just a thought but Kessel is trying really hard to score but he's all by himself out there.
I hate Ron Wilson... will you just fire him already. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 20:11:46
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Hey Folks, let the mods deal with the trolls. Feeding them does nothing. If it doesn't have to do with the thread and/or is insulting, don't bother. Even worse is when someone makes a dumb post and then 4 other guys reply with the quote to the point where it's a waste of my time to go back and clean everything up.
Guys, shut it down.
Now, to the case in point, Kessel is a bit of a prim donna and is a one-dimensional player. However, comparing him to Heatley is simply a rediculous comment made by a Leaf fan with carry over from Heatley's Ottawa day. Do you think it's complete fluke that he has been on every international team for Canada for almost the past 10 years?? Such a bad team player, blah, blah, blah. It's all garbage.
Compare Heatley to Kessel even as a sniper is a joke. Kessel hit 36 once, Heatley has multiple 40+ seasons and a couple of 50+ seasons. Fluke again right??
Now, as far as this 'situation' of course the Leafs are not moving Wilson until the end of the year. Not only can the media not use this against the Leafs but the Leafs dressing room couldn't handle the garbage. Kessel is just frustrated. He should know that making these comments are out of line and I can only assume that Phaneuf, Wilson, and Burke will all be grabbing your Phil and letting him know his place. Few players if any in the NHL are bigger than their respective team and certainly not Phil Kessel. |
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T-RAV
Top Prospect
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 05:22:57
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Phil definitely hasn't played up to expectations this year. This is, IMO, due to several reasons, which have been expressed in several posts.
However, if he was playing with the twins (hypothetically of course) he would probably be close to 80 pt season. Its really hard for any player to carry an entire team by himself.
Now, I am not claiming that Kessel is carrying the team. In fact quite the opposite. But he clearly doesn't have a permanent play maker.
Also not helping the situation, Wilson seems to be dead-set against leaving any combination of players together long enough to gel.
Lets use the Sedins as an example. I'm sure Henrik knows where Daniel is with-out looking for him, right? I sure very few line mates have this kind of chemistry (what with them being blood and all) but it only stands to reason, the more time you spend with someone, the more you get to know them, their mannerisms, their habits, their tendancies.
How often do teams like Van and Philly switch up their lines? I'm willing to bet they only shake things up when they have no choice(ie. injuries)
"If we succumb to a dream world, then we will wake up to a nightmare" - Jimmy Carter |
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Guest6293
( )
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Posted - 02/08/2011 : 07:31:18
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| Wilson just needs to give Phil a warm cup of hot chocolate, a blanket and a hug! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 08:20:11
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quote:
How often do teams like Van and Philly switch up their lines? I'm willing to bet they only shake things up when they have no choice(ie. injuries)
T-RAV, you would be surprised.
The first line is the Sedin's + someone. I can't think of any 2 forwards in the NHL today that have the chemistry that the Sedin's have, it would be crazy to split them up. Although the twins have never been separated other than by injury, until this year their 3rd linemate was a revolving door. Burrows has settled in nicely, but once in a while you'll see them play with Samuelsson to shake things up.
The VAN second line is constantly changing - the only constant is Kesler at centre, but he sees time with Samuelsson, Raymond, Torres, Hansen, Glass once in a while, and any call-up that shows some offensive flair.
The 3rd line is equally fluid, mainly due to the second line fluidity - if you're not on the second line, its because you're on the 3rd line.
The 4th line stays relatively static.
I don't think there are many teams that keep lines together all the time anymore. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:41:49
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Beans could you not have slept in a little longer this morning lol I am shocked he is the only one to comment on a completely out to lunch comparison. I mean you a comparing kessle who i repeat and stand by is not one of the 50 best players in the nhl to hands down a top 5 goal scorer in the league. What kind of Tequilla are we drinking in the GTA these days to come up such a halluncinating comment? It's been cold here the last few weeks but not that mind blowingly cold.
T-RAV does it not upset you a bit that you basically traded away a solid foundation for your future for a player you only have the confidence into get 80 pts with arguably two of the best players on earth? You would agree thats not much of reassurance in his offensive ability on your behalf and his defense ....  .The fact the hockey genius (hint the sarcasm) Burke scr**ed a fan base that is eager for a winning franchise not even a cup right away, simply a team they can get excited about watching and cheering for surely cannot sit well with alot of leaf fans especially as this season dwindles down and another top 5 - 10 pick looks more and more clear (Smile Toxixik). That along with his arrogance to leave a pretentious narrow minded over rated coach behind the bench who has not made any strides in developing any of your youth, a team first concept or defensive strategies to cover up some of the leafs gaping holes. By no means are any of us on here experts but for those who are regular hockey followers especially those of us in the Toronto area who see the leafs play you know what the leafs lack and where they are most vulernable. Why has such a brillllliant coach not been able to figure anything out??
Kaberle said his piece in the off season whether people want to believe it or not and now Kessel has said his piece. As many indicated there is clearly an on going issue here and when a guy has been on the team as long as kaberle and never made a peep comes out and then a guy who hardly says a word in kessle comes out its time to pack wilson's bags and draw of the papers for his walking slip. So what if the media percieves it as Kessel getting his way. Burke got rid of two first round picks and a second which is like telling Kessel this is his team and its his job to run with it. Has he earned that right? No, but if given to him then he should have the power of vito to send Wilson packing as he has obviously done nothing to improve the team.
There is no real short term solution in Toronto sorry leaf fans not trying to punch you while you are down just being realistic for the time being. Atleast, if they bring a coach in for the last 20 - 25 gms they can see what they have working forward. There are a boat load of talented coaches in the CHL as options or who knows they may locate another Bylsma, Boudreau or Boucher from the minors that can remotivate the leafs and change up their style of play. Otherwise you are just going to have a group of disgruntled players, fans and a loud mouth Nik Kypreos going off every night. Please Burke do all Ontario hockey fans a favor and dispose of Wilson to shut Kyp up.
Leaf fans any reason other the pride not to bring up all the youngsters out of the minors and see what they can do at the nhl level yet?
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:21:06
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As much as I am looking forward to the future of the Bruins, I am frustrated at the way the Leafs are going. It's not even funny, it's downright depressing. I live in Toronto, and have taken a chuckle at all of my friends expense over the years over the downfall of the Leafs. But, now it's just sad. I don't take any pleasure in beating a Leaf fan when he (and all of Leaf nation) are this far down.
People can say what they want about the comments between Wilson and Kessel and the subsequent sugar coating - make ya feel better stories the next day, but in the end I think there is problems in the dressingroom. When BB says "the player and the coach are going nowhere and to work it out between themselves" - this speaks volumes over the spat between the 2.
BB is basically saying ya, there is issues and i'm not getting involved.
It's becoming quite clear to everyone except BB that the coach has lost the room. Players can and will only take public humiliation from their coach so long before they tune him out and do their best to have him canned. But when the GM is so blindly stubborn, they have only one choice and that's to play half way and show up occasionally.
The players play the game, true, but the coach has to be the director and mold the younger players. Changing the lines on a daily basis allows for 0 chemistry and moves you around from 1st line down to 4th, back up to 2nd........ Talk of being shipped out for 3 yrs straight HAS to be a downer on Kabby and no doubt is effecting his play.
This team as I've said before, should be middle of the pack, not bottom 5 and that lies directly on the coaching staff. Kessel won't be getting a superstar center without sacrificing somewhere else on the team via trade. The only option is UFA's, and if the poll holds true, very few want to play in Toronto.
The Leafs are looking like they're going to have to ride out the storm until the summer when Wilson will finally be gone, take all the available cap room then and just start over with a new coach and maybe a new outlook for next season.
This upcoming TD day, BB would be wise to trade for picks and picks only, coupled with cap room and build something better in the offseason.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 11:02:31
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The Leafs are in a fishbowl and get nothing but crap from everyone. The media, the oppositions fans(insert your favorite Leaf Basher's name here) and in many cases their own fans. For every Slozo out there who is a die hard fan and believes in his team until the bitter end there is a Duke(or 10) who continuously flip/flops from love and hate depending on each game. (By the way, that's not a personal slight that is a simple observation and can be proven time and time again when looking back at posts).
Sure there are issues in the dressing room. Hockey players may not have any personality but they are not morons. The Leaf players can see what we all see. Like them or hate them, they are a mediocre team that do not appear to be improving year over year for the past 3 season. This is the 3rd straight year when the Leafs are coming into the deadline with far more questions than answers and far more problems and not enough solutions. It's another 'major change' expected in the offseason. 3 straight season. The players are just as frustrated if not more frustrated than the fans.
Sure, Spencer Pratt I mean Kessel is a bit of a little kid in the way he reacts both on and now off the ice when things don't go his way, but to his defense he is still a reasonably young man. He should know better and he will learn. That being said, if I was a Leaf fan(blech) I would be far more concerned if I didn't hear something like this every now and then. It shows that at least Kessel cares. At least there is still some compete left in him and he's not happy about losing.
Maybe not the right way to delivery the message but not a bad message to delivery. He's pissed and he should be. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/08/2011 11:03:06 |
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T-RAV
Top Prospect
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 20:14:21
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Good Points made by Mario and Beans. I agree completely. But Mario, I wasn't saying the Leafs SHOULD keep Wilson until the end of the season, but that Burke is stubborn and it wont happen until the summer...IF...
Peace and Respect |
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Kessel vs. Wilson 
