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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2007 : 10:25:55
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Because some people think that most threads go on to bash Todd Bertuzzi, I have made one so that we can bash him in context. So fellow members, bash away.
Long Live Leafs Nation!!
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 10:27:40
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| Im gonna go out on a limb and move this one to trash talk. |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 10:31:30
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| My take, he paid a stiff penalty for what he did. What he did was wrong and he has acknowledged that. The NHL deserves just as much blame as Todd Bertuzzi does for the incident that occured. When I hear Darcy Tucker utter the words 'payback' or 'retribution' (dont remember the exact quote) I cant help but think back to the week before the Bertuzzi/Moore incident. It was all over the media, a bounty on Moore's head. The NHL did nothing. I hope it learned its lesson. I hope it continues to hand out stiff penalties when players attempt to injure each other like Todd Bertuzzi did. |
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PENSFAN8771
Rookie
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:24:24
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| After a month of hockey brutality, I still watch the Bertuzzi video and say 'It's the worst.' because it was planned and deliberate. Moore clearly just wanted to play hockey. Yes, his hit on Naslund was hard, but it was hardly even penalty worthy. Watching Crawford on the bench with that smug grin is still disgusting and chilling. I'm interested what admin suggests the league could have done. Threaten season ending suspensions for anyone going after Moore may have helped, but then would guys avoid hitting him regularly for fear of a suspension? Or would someone decide the suspension would be worthwhile and go after him anyways? I agree that if the NHL had been able to do something to prevent this incident, it would have been good for the game, but I'm not sure what that is. |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 14:45:43
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quote:
Originally posted by PENSFAN8771
After a month of hockey brutality, I still watch the Bertuzzi video and say 'It's the worst.' because it was planned and deliberate. Moore clearly just wanted to play hockey. Yes, his hit on Naslund was hard, but it was hardly even penalty worthy. Watching Crawford on the bench with that smug grin is still disgusting and chilling. I'm interested what admin suggests the league could have done. Threaten season ending suspensions for anyone going after Moore may have helped, but then would guys avoid hitting him regularly for fear of a suspension? Or would someone decide the suspension would be worthwhile and go after him anyways? I agree that if the NHL had been able to do something to prevent this incident, it would have been good for the game, but I'm not sure what that is.
If I were Bettman, I would have without a doubt publicly issued a statement making it well known that any player that followed through on any of the threats uttered that week, as well as coach & GM of that player, would be suspended for 1 year. That would have been a strong deterrent.
Not only is it the fault of the league, but also the coaches. Why did Granato have Moore out there when they were winning by such a large margin? Why did Crawford allow his team to continue to try to go after Moore? |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 15:23:48
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I'm no Bertuzzi fan, nor a Bertuzzi hater.
I have seen the incident in question literally over 100 times and have heard all the arguments on both sides.
- What Bert did was wrong, and deserved to be punshed as he was. That being said, this type of incident happens often throughout a season and if not for the unfortunate injury to Moore, this one would not have received the press coverage it did either.
- This wouldnt have happend if the NHL suspended Moore for his elbow to Naslund's head. Yes, there was no penalty, but that doesnt mean that there should not have been one. Naslund didnt receive the same level of injury as Moore's, but he got seriously injured never-the-less. Before Naslund received his concussion (from Moore's flying elbow) he was leading the NHL in scoring - and he has never been quite the same player since. Think-about-it.
- Anyone who talks about Bertuzzi 'driving his head into the ice' is solely going on the data presented in the media and not their own eyes. Either that, or they're just plain stupid. Period. I've seen the incident over 100 times, slow motion, fast motion, backwards, and forwards and although Bert delivered a devistating sucker punch, the rest after that was quite a sequence-of-events. From the falling to the ice, the dogpile. the slide down the ice... Although Bert instigated the iincident (well, some would argue Moore instigated it.. twice), there is no way to tell where/when Moore actually sustained his injuries. The generall consensus from the medical experts was that the injury happend when his head hit the ice and the injury was compounded when numerous players jumped on him while he was vulnerable.
- The result was much worse, but what Bert did was not in the same category as what Simon did with his stick, and Simon did deserve to receive harsher punishment, and he did.
I'm glad Colin agrees with me.
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 16:50:56
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I would have to argue with the point that the injury to Moore did not happen until everyone piled on. Watch the video again. As soon as Moore was hit, his body went limp, his right hand fell from his stick, and he appeared to be out. He did nothing to brace himself at all. That tells me he was out.
It's just what I see. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/12/2007 16:51:48 |
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Guest4040
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Posted - 03/12/2007 : 17:17:24
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i hate how some people say the hit a planned or pre meditated. Do you have any proof that he was planning the hit from behind? were you with him when he was "scheming"? NO, so please stop saying it was premeditated.
thx |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 17:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I would have to argue with the point that the injury to Moore did not happen until everyone piled on. Watch the video again. As soon as Moore was hit, his body went limp, his right hand fell from his stick, and he appeared to be out. He did nothing to brace himself at all. That tells me he was out.
It's just what I see.
I agree, he was either out or completely stunned. However, that doesnt mean that that is when he was injured. Because he was 'out of it', that just made him much more vunerable when he hit the ice and got jumped on because he couldnt properly protect himself.
Bottom line is we really dont know when the injury happend, as it's all speculation. We just have to go with what injuries were actually sustained, and the medical investigators' probable cause. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 17:37:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4040
i hate how some people say the hit a planned or pre meditated. Do you have any proof that he was planning the hit from behind? were you with him when he was "scheming"? NO, so please stop saying it was premeditated.
thx
He publicly announced that he was going to get revenge, who cares how it happened. It WAS premeditated, that's one of the few sure things about this. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 17:46:34
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4040
i hate how some people say the hit a planned or pre meditated. Do you have any proof that he was planning the hit from behind? were you with him when he was "scheming"? NO, so please stop saying it was premeditated.
thx
He publicly announced that he was going to get revenge, who cares how it happened. It WAS premeditated, that's one of the few sure things about this.
Was revenge premeditated? Certainly.
Did Bertuzzi want to hurt Moore as payback? Was this premeditated? Certainly.
However, I don't believe for a second that injuring Moore was premeditated at all. |
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Guest4040
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Posted - 03/12/2007 : 17:58:47
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| thats what i meant. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 18:16:55
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4040
i hate how some people say the hit a planned or pre meditated. Do you have any proof that he was planning the hit from behind? were you with him when he was "scheming"? NO, so please stop saying it was premeditated.
thx
He publicly announced that he was going to get revenge, who cares how it happened. It WAS premeditated, that's one of the few sure things about this.
Brad May was the one who said they were going for Moores head.
I honestly dont believe that Bertuzzi planed to do what transpired on the ice, if you watch the play he was trying to get moore to turn around and fight, now I will NEVER say that it is Moores fault what happened and Bertuzzi definatly deserved what he got, but come on, everybody has had 3 whole years to discuss it and really whats the point anymore?? Bertuzzi missed the rest of that season(I think the Canucks would have gone further if he played) and he was convicted in a court of law of assault(which he pleaded guilty to) so I really think people should have something more current to talk about then continually "bash on bert".
CANUCKS RULE!! |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 19:24:30
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Well I didn't bring it up cause frankly I don't care, but while it's a live subject, might as well put in my two cents...
The retaliation was pre-meditated, it doesn't matter what the result was. He meant to do what he did, regardless of how badly he hurt him. How hurt would Moore have to have been for Bertuzzi to be satisfied? I'm sure he wanted to hurt him beyond a fight, because that really wouldn't have solved much.
Bertuzzi said that "He'll have to pay" or something like that, I'm obviously paraphrasing because I don't recall his exact words. That sounds like a threat to me. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 19:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
Well I didn't bring it up cause frankly I don't care, but while it's a live subject, might as well put in my two cents...
The retaliation was pre-meditated, it doesn't matter what the result was. He meant to do what he did, regardless of how badly he hurt him. How hurt would Moore have to have been for Bertuzzi to be satisfied? I'm sure he wanted to hurt him beyond a fight, because that really wouldn't have solved much.
Bertuzzi said that "He'll have to pay" or something like that, I'm obviously paraphrasing because I don't recall his exact words. That sounds like a threat to me.
I don't understand your point here Babs. |
Edited by - tctitans on 03/12/2007 19:46:17 |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2007 : 19:55:17
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| I'm clearing up what I said in response to Guest4040. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 07:15:52
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| I hear what you are saying Babs. Bertuzzi did have intent on "retribution." Maybe he didn't intend on it going as far, but his intent was "payback." That's like catching someone sleeping with your girl. Weather you hit him with a bat or a hammer, the intent is the same. The injury is a moot point. |
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Saku Steen
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1102 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 11:55:19
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I hate Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play pro hockey ever again he shouldnt be able to play.
I hate Bertuzzi! |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Saku Steen
I hate Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play pro hockey ever again he shouldnt be able to play.
I hate Bertuzzi!
Do you hate all players who have ended other players careers?
big hits?
cheap shots?
retaliation swings?
The list is not small... |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 12:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Saku Steen
I hate Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play pro hockey ever again he shouldnt be able to play.
I hate Bertuzzi!
So you are saying that it is the outcome of the act that decides the punishment and not the act itself? |
Edited by - leigh on 03/13/2007 12:59:33 |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 13:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
quote:
Originally posted by Saku Steen
I hate Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play pro hockey ever again he shouldnt be able to play.
I hate Bertuzzi!
So you are saying that it is the outcome of the act that decides the punishment and not the act itself?
If I read Leigh's implication correctly, I'm in complete agreement. It's the act that should be punshed, and the act alone. It shouldnt matter if the victim hops back up and gets into the play, or is for whatever reason, is unable to. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 13:47:32
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| Simon's suspension is a perfect example of that. I'm glad the suspension served the action and not the severity of (or lack thereof) Hollweg's "injury". |
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ultimatetitman
Rookie
Canada
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 13:50:36
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As most of you know, I am a huge Canucks fan... but I am no fan of Bertuzzi... or as I like to call him, Gutless Puketuzzi.
But, the are 2 however's.
However... it was a punch to the head. Moore wouldn't fight him, he got pissed and sukcer punched him. That's all it was. The rest was a hugely regrettable consequence.
One thing that most everyone forgets is that the refs had as much to do with this as anyone. If you recall, Colorado went up quickly 4-0 or 5-0. Suddenly Brad May turned into Gretzky and scored two nice goals and I think assisted on another. He was goading the other team into penalties and was playing like a man possessed. His third goal brought the Canucks within two, and clearly gave them the momentum... it was turning back into a game. May taunted the other team after his second goal, Vancouver's third... and got ejected for it. That's right, ejected for taunting. Colorado got the momentum back, and went on to wallop Vancouver. If May had stayed in the game, and/or we scored the next goal, the Moore incident would never have happened.
Second, and biggest however... The thing that really pi**es me off was that if Bertuzzi had played for almost any other team, he would not have been suspended for the playoffs. It would have been a maximum 13 game suspension.
Don't believe me? A week after the Moore incident, a Toronto D-man swung his stick like a battle axe at an opponents head. It was far worse than Simon's attack, it was definite intent to injure, and could easily have killed him if he hit him in the neck, or is his helmet had come off. What did he get? 8 games! And he was back for the playoffs.
Does anyone remember that? Remember who it was? Or have video of it. If you could see that, you would believe me. |
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Saku Steen
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1102 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 14:19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
quote:
Originally posted by Saku Steen
I hate Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play pro hockey ever again he shouldnt be able to play.
I hate Bertuzzi!
So you are saying that it is the outcome of the act that decides the punishment and not the act itself?
yeah, pretty much but what he did should have been a life long suspension. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 14:30:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
Don't believe me? A week after the Moore incident, a Toronto D-man swung his stick like a battle axe at an opponents head. It was far worse than Simon's attack, it was definite intent to injure, and could easily have killed him if he hit him in the neck, or is his helmet had come off. What did he get? 8 games! And he was back for the playoffs.
Does anyone remember that? Remember who it was? Or have video of it. If you could see that, you would believe me.
I can't find anything about that... The only similar event that I can think of is Perezhogin's vicious slash when he played for the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2007 : 15:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Saku Steen
quote:
Originally posted by leigh
quote:
Originally posted by Saku Steen
I hate Bertuzzi. If Moore cant play pro hockey ever again he shouldnt be able to play.
I hate Bertuzzi!
So you are saying that it is the outcome of the act that decides the punishment and not the act itself?
yeah, pretty much but what he did should have been a life long suspension.
Interesting... so all players who sucker punch someone from behind should be banned from the NHL. Seems the league's getting smaller and smaller as we talk... :) |
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Bash on Bert Thread 
