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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2011 : 10:50:58
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Poll Question:
What do you think of the officiating through Game 4?
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Edited by - spade632 on 06/09/2011 10:51:45
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 10:31:33
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| My feeling is that it is pretty bad - in the sense that they are calling more than they have in the other 3 rounds. I think they set the expectations that they were going to let the player's play in the first 3 rounds and then pulled the rug out from underneath them in the finals (and it's been quite inconsistent from game to game as well) |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2011 : 12:18:16
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it seems to be a work in progress - I agree with leigh. Anyone who thought the first game of the series was going to set the tone (6 power plays to each team) was left guessing in game 2 when they put the whistles away. Games 3 and 4 got out of hand in the late stages because the ref's decided to let them play things out, and left it too late to reign them back in.
I have no idea what to expect with game 5, it will become apparent in the first 10 minutes I suspect. |
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Guest6260
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Posted - 06/10/2011 : 20:17:24
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| Game 5 was pretty bad in my mind... some brutal calls and no calls |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2011 : 00:17:02
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| so its still a work in progress then. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2011 : 05:16:30
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My criteria for officiating standards are this:
1) Did the reffing impact the outcome of the game?
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2) Is one team getting more advantages (or disadvantages) than the other team??
By that measure, I think the reffing has been fair. It absolutely has been inconsistent and I can appreciate that it's difficult as a player and a fan to understand why some things are called and other things are not. However, the games to this point have been won and lost based on the teams on the ice and neither team has had more of an advantage because of the officiating.
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2011 : 07:00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
My criteria for officiating standards are this:
1) Did the reffing impact the outcome of the game?
And
2) Is one team getting more advantages (or disadvantages) than the other team??
By that measure, I think the reffing has been fair. It absolutely has been inconsistent and I can appreciate that it's difficult as a player and a fan to understand why some things are called and other things are not. However, the games to this point have been won and lost based on the teams on the ice and neither team has had more of an advantage because of the officiating.
The fact that fans are discussing officiating is indicative that officiating is impacting games.
If officiating was up to par, we would not be discussing.
It has been poor all season, and it got even worse during the playoffs.
It is now a given that players have to "feel" out the refs for the first 5 to 10 minutes of a game before they can play the style the refs will allow them to. Even the game commentators (TV, Radio, etc.) wait and see what type of game the refs will let go and then "announce" it to the fans...
That's digusting. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2011 : 09:35:37
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[quote]Originally posted by Beans15
My criteria for officiating standards are this:
1) Did the reffing impact the outcome of the game?
And
2) Is one team getting more advantages (or disadvantages) than the other team??
By that measure, I think the reffing has been fair. It absolutely has been inconsistent and I can appreciate that it's difficult as a player and a fan to understand why some things are called and other things are not. However, the games to this point have been won and lost based on the teams on the ice and neither team has had more of an advantage because of the officiating.
[/quote
Weird Beans, 'cause here are my criteria, actually - it's just one piece of criteria (criterion?):
1) Was the game called fairly?
In the end, you just want the right calls . . . sometimes a team takes lots of stupid penalties, and the refs shouldn't be afraid to call them, and shouldn't have to look for some marginal close call to "even it up" later. Sometimes, the teams don't take a lot of penalties.
We are nearing the end of an extremely chippy series that has turned into a series of eye pokes, mouth gouges, finger bites, dives, goalie stick slashes, behind the scenes interference, etc etc etc. It's brutal play all around in terms of "dirtiness", and that is largely because (IMHO) the refs have not called a fair game, electing instead to try and call as little as possible.
Game 3 should have had twice the penalties, and then games 4 and 5 would have been much, much better, with no theatrics whatsoever. First miming of a finger bite? Unsportsmanlike, 2 minutes, and now we are done with that and never see it again.
The refs have totally lost control of this series, in my mind. Hopefully the cup isn't decided by some brutal call . . . but for some reason, I see it coming.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest8380
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Posted - 06/12/2011 : 16:57:16
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| I have not liked the way the refs called the games in the finals or previous rounds . It seems to me that after the game has been played the league is stepping in and telling the referees of there mistakes which is then passed down to the teams playing the game. Why is it that after watching game 3 after the whistle scrums and constant face washing and bully tactics the canucks try and pull there players out of the scrums. Game 4 was more of the same and the canucks don't retaliate but yet no penalties called on the bruins for instigating those actions. I believe both teams were told that it will not be tolerated ( the bruins mainly) and that type of thuggery was not seen in game 5. From a different series can anyone tell me why Ben Eager never played a minute after the game he boarded Sedin and taunted Luongo ? His coach commended him on the game he played and then never played him again. Did the league step in ? Where they told to sit him or he will be suspended for his dirty hit or actions on the ice or in the bench / penalty box ? |
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 17:40:18
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yes the teams have won by skill on the ice, because Boston's games were blow outs. However in every game Boston has got a big or a small advantage of the refs.
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful |
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Guest0763
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Posted - 06/12/2011 : 20:56:48
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| for once i agree with Utemin, and i have started to not understand beans at all, boston is pushing it way to much and the refs just let it happen. really it is sad. |
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MrBoogedy
Rookie
Canada
195 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 21:09:15
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| The officiating has been getting steadily worse for years IMO, and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. When players and coaches are fined for speaking out against the officials and the NHL, it just goes to show that Bettman is such a dictator he's on his way to becoming the anti-christ. Too harsh? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2011 : 21:30:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0763
for once i agree with Utemin, and i have started to not understand beans at all, boston is pushing it way to much and the refs just let it happen. really it is sad.
What don't you understand. I think the reffing is very inconsistent. I also think the reffing is not impacting the game in that a team that should not have won had won because of the the reffing.
Seems pretty simple to me. If Boston is getting such an advantage, why is the series not over by now??? The best team each night has won the game, have they not?? The games that Boston won had nothing to do with the reffing nor have the games Vancouver has won. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 05:29:41
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Reffing was brutal again last night. In Boston, they are definitely not calling it evenly, and I say this as a totally unbiased fan of neither team. A couple of blatant non-calls against Boston, one of them during that 4 minute stretch of 4 Boston goals.
I hope they even it out and give just as much "homerism" to Vancouver, because I just didn't see it as called very fairly.
And Beans . . . you cannot know if the reffing is impacting the games or not, because no one can go back in a time machine, and see the effect of a power play, see if they score, see if the game changes - even subtly - because of it, thus altering the outcome.
But even if a badly reffed game wouldn't have altered the outcome - like we can assume the game 3 drubbing Vancouver took at the hands of Boston - don't you want a fairly reffed game? It almost sounds as if you are trying to take away the weight of people's comments, and I think the reffing should be criticised in this case.
Think of how much better the hockey could have been this finals with reffing that put a stop to all the nonsense we have seen.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest2760
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Posted - 06/14/2011 : 06:32:19
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| I agree that the reffing was not fair at all. Edler or Erhoff whoever it was should have recieved a five minute major for boarding or charging take your pick and a game misconduct for that brutal hit on a god dam icing call. Don't tell me he didn't know it was icing cause Lou was yelling and waiving his arm on the air. Very classless thing to do, but what do you expect from a classless team. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 07:52:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2760
I agree that the reffing was not fair at all. Edler or Erhoff whoever it was should have recieved a five minute major for boarding or charging take your pick and a game misconduct for that brutal hit on a god dam icing call. Don't tell me he didn't know it was icing cause Lou was yelling and waiving his arm on the air. Very classless thing to do, but what do you expect from a classless team.
I think the 2 minute penalty he got was appropriate, actually, but it could have been more, sure.
What about when Raymond got injured against the boards - was that non-call a good choice?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Reffing was brutal again last night. In Boston, they are definitely not calling it evenly, and I say this as a totally unbiased fan of neither team. A couple of blatant non-calls against Boston, one of them during that 4 minute stretch of 4 Boston goals.
I hope they even it out and give just as much "homerism" to Vancouver, because I just didn't see it as called very fairly.
And Beans . . . you cannot know if the reffing is impacting the games or not, because no one can go back in a time machine, and see the effect of a power play, see if they score, see if the game changes - even subtly - because of it, thus altering the outcome.
But even if a badly reffed game wouldn't have altered the outcome - like we can assume the game 3 drubbing Vancouver took at the hands of Boston - don't you want a fairly reffed game? It almost sounds as if you are trying to take away the weight of people's comments, and I think the reffing should be criticised in this case.
Think of how much better the hockey could have been this finals with reffing that put a stop to all the nonsense we have seen.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Personally, I think these finals have been the best I have watching in the past 20 years. I think this series has had the most drama, the most on and off ice stories, and the best quality of hockey in as long as I can remember. Sure, the games have been physical and the players have take liberties, but I don't think anyone can frankly and honestly say that one team has had an advantage over the other because of the officials.
You are also correct in saying that one can not rewind the clock and see what a game would have been like had some penalties been called that were not. I can tell you that both Vancouver and Boston have been horrible on the PP so in most cases, the special teams have not won or lost the games for either team.
I believe the reffing would be scrutinized by people regardless of the calls made or not. If the refs call too many penalties than people complain and make comments like "let them play," while if they don't call enough penalties than people complain that the game needs to be cleaned up. They can't win for losing, that's for sure.
I hold firm, as most everyone I have spoken to agrees, tha the reffing has not impacted the outcome of any of the games. The best team on any given night has won. I have watched all but the 1st and 2nd period of last nights game and my eyes tell me that the reffing has not impacted the outcome of any game in this series.
Finally, if you have not liked the reffing to this point, you will most likely hate game 7. Specifically, if it is a close game in the 3rd period, the whistles will be put away. Bank on that.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 06/14/2011 08:24:33 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:18:27
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This one's debatable for sure. It looks fairly innocent, but the puck is def gone from the vicinity of Raymond. He actually never really touches it but was making a play for it. Here's two sides for ya.....
1. Don't be freakin' ridiculous, they were both tangled up and Boychuk rode him into the boards like any other play. There was nothing wrong with what he did and you Canucks losers are just whining over getting beaten badly AGAIN in Boston and grasping for anything here. To even think this should be reviewed would show your ignorance! Idiots!!! 
2. Absolutely, this should be reviewed. Is there not something in the rules about the hitter being responsible AND how the hitter must avoid contact if the hittee is in a vulnerable position? C'mon, he might have broken the guy's back and it was obvious intent to injure! You Boston fans are as bad as the thugs they continue to put out there on the ice! Brutal! If Rome got 4 games mostly because of the resulting injury, this guy should be banned for life!
Then there's the take somewhere in between those two, which is where i stand.  |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:29:08
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| so beans your saying that you never watched the 1st and 2nd periods of last nights game but you think you can state the refs didn't have a impact, wow. lets put it this way if the refs where doing their jobs boston wouldn't be pulling the crap they do after every call, and how is the hit on higgins not a penalty the second boston player hitting him in mid air after the puck was gone, thats insane and a stupid non call, there was alot of it, sedin getting punch like 7 time by Marchand. that kinda crap needs to go the refs should be throwing guys out of the game for that crap. but they just turn a blind eye, |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:31:39
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| oh and not every time a canuck goes down are they diving, the penalty at the start was bull, but thats bad Referees for you. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:44:22
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I have to say, the Marchand incident is exactly what makes being a Canucks fan tough at this time. I've brought this up before, but i'll say it again. JUST IMAGINE if Burrows or Kesler had done something like this to the reigning Art Ross Trophy winner and Hart Finalist! I can't even begin to imagine how many dbag, unclassy, punk, etc comments would have been rained on him by now!
If you somehow missed it, Marchand throwns a MINIMUM of 7 jabs to Daniels face while holding his jersey. What makes it worse you ask? Watch this clip and scroll forward to the 2:05 mark and listen to these comments. When you do, rewind it, pretend there's a french accent and that it's Burrows and then think of the reaction!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68WgHBOFFnU&feature=related
I have to say, this shows the lack of respect the Sedin's get league wide. I doubt for a second that someone, especially a rookie, would dare try this on Crosby, Datsyuk, etc. I was disgusted that no Canuck came to his rescue but i don't think any of them on the ice really saw it as everyone was kinda paired off in their own melee!
What bothers me even more though, is that these guys (the Sedin's) are too complacent. Ok, as a Canucks fan, that's what i'll call them, but others will call them wimps for the same reason! What i'm saying is i'm completely blown away by the fact that in an instance like that, Daniel has the abiltiy to take 7 punches, albeit, light jabs, without any response??? How in the world he can sit there and take that without any response other than to look at the ref and expect a penalty is crazy! I continue to wait and expect one of the twins to finally be fed up and throw a punch, be it glove on, sucker punch, ANYTHING to repsond and say "hey, enough's enough"! What good was a power play at that point in the game? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 08:49:18
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quote:
Originally posted by BucketHead
oh and not every time a canuck goes down are they diving, the penalty at the start was bull, but thats bad Referees for you.
Are you referring to the Henrik "dive"? I'd have to agree. I know i'll hear the "live by the sword....." crap again, and admittedly Henrik is either the biggest wimp on the planet with the smallest pain threshold or he's been worse than Lapierre and Burrows combined for embelishing, but the refs need to be able to recognize a dive from an actual legit fall from a hit! Chara, in case the ref's hadn't noticed, is rather big and strong compared to Henrik, and how that could be deemed a dive is ludacris! If they have come to the point where that's a dive, Boston's got free range to do whatever they want to the guy! Might as well bust your stick over his head, it'll likely be offsetting minors! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 09:46:17
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| that diving call on Henrik was hilarious, perhaps the single worst call I have seen this entire playoffs. All he's trying to do is stop getting pushed to the ice by a guy 6 inches and 90 pounds heavier than he is and move into the play, and he gets a penalty for diving. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:01:36
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nuxfan, what'd you think of the non call on Hansen i believe in the 3rd where he threw his arms up to the ref as to say "Wtf, how can you not call that?"? I'm curious, even on the telecast, they said "you can't show up the officials" or you won't get that call? How is that showing up an official? He didn't make the call to begin with so it's hard for me to understand how that could be the reason. And, for the record, although it meant little at that point, that was another blatantly missed call that occured right in front of a ref!
I just don't get the whole "showing up the ref" thing i guess. I can understand the faking, diving, etc, but to react like Hansen did after an obvious stick infraction, is hardly "showing up a ref" imo. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2011 : 10:06:56
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| It was just that - a non-call. Should have been a penalty, something similar had been called against VAN earlier in the game, and the ref's didn't call it. Ah well. |
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onecup
Top Prospect
8 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 19:18:31
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I used to coach and I've been a ref and I used to think the Hanson brothers were a caricature.
The game is hockey. By definition a game has rules. If you aren't going to enforce the rules then you aren't playing that game...you're playing something else.
"Let the players decide it." By all means. Let the players decide it in the context and framework of the game, and if a player plays outside the rule of the game call him on it!
True story...we were in a tight game and the ref comes up to one of our players (a natural scorer but a dirty player who loved to hurt other players) and says after a slash "if you do that again it'll be a penalty." The ref skates away and my assistant coach leans over the kid and says "you keep doing what you're doing." We had words after the game. Half of you reading this probably think he was right. Win at all costs or win with honour? What do you REALLY want your kids learning?
What we are watching here is a barfight and it's embarrassing to the NHL. ANY discipline that bunch EVER dispenses in the future will be a hippocritical act. They have already indicated by their actions (and inaction IS an action) a colossal indifference to the sanctity of the game.
Which brings me to my actions. As I am so thoroughly disgusted by the refs influencing the games by NOT calling anything, any further support I show the NHL by watching HNIC or buying jerseys or hats or car flags would make me a hippocrite.
So, Mr. Bettman.
I am a Canadian fan.
You have gotten your last penny from me.
Oh yeah...and I won my pool. It'll be my last one.
I think I'll head upstairs now and see what the wife is watching.
The harder you pull the trigger, the farther the bullet goes... |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2011 : 19:33:46
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quote:
Originally posted by onecup
I used to coach and I've been a ref and I used to think the Hanson brothers were a caricature.
The game is hockey. By definition a game has rules. If you aren't going to enforce the rules then you aren't playing that game...you're playing something else.
"Let the players decide it." By all means. Let the players decide it in the context and framework of the game, and if a player plays outside the rule of the game call him on it!
True story...we were in a tight game and the ref comes up to one of our players (a natural scorer but a dirty player who loved to hurt other players) and says after a slash "if you do that again it'll be a penalty." The ref skates away and my assistant coach leans over the kid and says "you keep doing what you're doing." We had words after the game. Half of you reading this probably think he was right. Win at all costs or win with honour? What do you REALLY want your kids learning?
What we are watching here is a barfight and it's embarrassing to the NHL. ANY discipline that bunch EVER dispenses in the future will be a hippocritical act. They have already indicated by their actions (and inaction IS an action) a colossal indifference to the sanctity of the game.
Which brings me to my actions. As I am so thoroughly disgusted by the refs influencing the games by NOT calling anything, any further support I show the NHL by watching HNIC or buying jerseys or hats or car flags would make me a hippocrite.
So, Mr. Bettman.
I am a Canadian fan.
You have gotten your last penny from me.
Oh yeah...and I won my pool. It'll be my last one.
I think I'll head upstairs now and see what the wife is watching.
The harder you pull the trigger, the farther the bullet goes...
Wow.
An overdramatic post? Perhaps . . . but I feel it coming from the heart, so it can be forgiven.
I 100% agree on this game's officiating. Absolutely brutal, and a huge black eye on the NHL.
I now despise Tim Thomas, his good guy act has been shown up for what it is - an act. At 3-0 to give a butt end of the stick like that to another player's face . . . I can't even describe how disrespectful that is.
I am also saddened, one cup. Thanks for your words.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest2766
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Posted - 06/15/2011 : 20:07:12
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| Sore losers. Now go burn your city down |
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Topic |
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Officiating Standards in the Finals 
