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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:02:37
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The playoff's have come & gone and now we wait another 4 months before the season begins. We recently witnessed a cup finals were one goalie stood on his head, while the other was hung out to dry, I thought I would toss the following question to the masses.
"Which goalie or goalies is consistenly given praise that you find unwarranted or regularly thrown aside when it comes to the best goalies in the league?"
Luongo has been buried by everyone thats not a Canucks fan recently, so lets try to keep the relentless bashing to a minimum as the finals loss was just as much the fault of an anaemic PP & inability to score as it was Luongo's inability to make the big saves.
Every journey begins with a single step.
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Edited by - n/a on 06/17/2011 10:13:45
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:07:31
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Lundqvist isn't exactly underated but he is not always mentioned as one of the top goalies in the league. In my opinion he is the best and most consistant goalie in the NHL.
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:10:29
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| Ryan Miller, miller is overrated as the best american born goalie playing right now. i may hate thomas but he is the best american born goalie by far, and Rick DiPietro was overrated but is now injuried all the time. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:16:39
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I think as far as goalies that get more praise than deserved, there is a group of guys who have yet to prove themselves. Guys like Craig Anderson, Jaroslav Halak, Anti Niemi, et al. These guys all might be very good goalies, but until a guy has been a solid #1 keeper for 3+ year, I simply can not call him elite. It's take more than good play over a short period of time.
Guys who don't get the praise they deserve, Thomas Vokoun is the top of my list. He has played on below average, small market teams for his entire career and has been a top shelf guy for a long time.
Without bashing Luongo, I think he gets a lot more crap than he deserves. I still don't think he is a big game goalie but he is and has been on of the top 5 keepers in the NHL for nearly a decade. He loses a few games and he is thrown to the wolves. He gets more undeserved bashing than any keeper in the NHL. |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:21:41
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| sorry bean but why is Anti Niemi on your list he won a cup his first year, went to the western finals the next year i'd rather have him than Nikolai Khabibulin, and yes i know he won a cup but niemi did it his first year and still the guy is looked apon like he can't do the job. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:24:58
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Buckethead, welcome to the site. Just a suggestion, but a little puncuation goes a long way. Take a read through the forum guidelines as a new poster. It will help.
Secondly, look at the teams that Niemi played on. Chicago and San Jose! Stacked teams. This is Chris Osgood syndrome. An average goalie on a brilliant team looks far better than what they are. Do you think that Niemi on a team like Nashville or Montreal would be more or less successful?? That should explain my point. |
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:32:10
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| so an Osgood hater, Love how that guy gets no respect and he's won the cup more than once, If Osgood was so bad he never would have won the cup, so with your way of thinking tim thomas sucks too, he had a stacked team, same with Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Fleury. Also if he was on nashville he would look good because they have good d-men, Montreal who know they have good d-men too. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 10:42:27
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Sorry, had to edit your over and under "ratted" there.
Luongo I find has been on both sides of the spectrum, actually . . . he was overrated early in his career I think, and now has in general been thrown under the bus my many, a lot fo them Canuck fans, in fact.
Don't think Miller is overrated. He is very, very good.
Agree about Lundqvist, and I have said so before - he is the best and most consistent goalie in the league, and my #1 pick at that position if I could choose anyone from the entire league.
Nicklas Backstrom would be my most underrated goalie. Niemi would also be up there.
Most overrated would be . . . hmm. Maybe Bryzgalov.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 13:30:34
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Luongo gets the worst abuse but he is in Vancouver where that's the norm!! Miller is full value and an excellent goalie, I think after watching Thomas shut down the Canucks he's the goalie I would choose for my team right now.
Osgood is still the most underrated goalie by far all he does is win cups!!?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 15:29:22
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Vancouver is known as the "goalie graveyard", and we have a lot of history with goaltenders that have failed here, or never lived up to expectations - whether expectations were reasonable or not. Goaltenders have always been magnets for hockey fans here - Luongo is hailed as a god when he performs, and thrown under the bus when he doesn't. It is what it is.
I too think that Luongo gets more crap than he deserves, and people are quick to forget that without him, we have a harder time in round 2, possibly don't get out of round 3, and almost certainly don't go to 7 games in round 4. 8 GF in 7 games, and yet VAN wins 3 of them!
As for overrated goalies - I agree about Niemi, he is a good goalie that has benefitted from solid teams in front of him. I also think that Jonathan Bernier is pretty overrated - for a player that has only played a handful of games in the NHL he gets a ton of hype.
Underrated - usually the goalies that are good but suffer because of crap teams. Backstrom, Pavelec, Lehtonen all rank up there, they manage to have very good years despite their teams not succeeding at one level or another. I also think that Ward is constantly under-appreciated.
As for Miller and Lundqvist - overrated? Those goalies have been amongst the top-5 goalies NHL goalies over the past 5 years, I don't see how they're overrated in any way. They're just awesome. |
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 18:11:51
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Nuxfan I never said Lundqvist was overrated I said underrated. I know everyone considers him a top 5 goalie but he doesn't get a lot of love at number 1.
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 18:48:32
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Totally agree with the fact Lundqvist is likely the best goalie in the game today. Okay, today and for the past couple weeks, it's Tim Thomas  . But i'm with Beans, he's (Lundqvist) my pick if i'm starting a team today!
Niemi, tough to say, he does have a pretty good resume at an early age, but i find a lot of young guys overrated. When it comes to goalies, you need not look far to see many Jim Carey / Andrew Raycroft types out there! To all the Canucks fans who want Luongo gone, do we really know how good Schneider is in the limited games he's played???
Cam Ward, slightly under rated only because he doesn't get much spotlight playing in Carolina.
Miller, neither, imo he gets the cred he deserves.
Halak, overrated, lost me my original bet to Beans
ANY Philly or Wash goalie - OVER rated. When will these teams learn? 
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2011 : 23:49:44
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quote:
Nuxfan I never said Lundqvist was overrated I said underrated. I know everyone considers him a top 5 goalie but he doesn't get a lot of love at number 1.
ah, sorry sensfan, misread your post - you are correct. That being said, I don't think he's particularly underrated either - he gets the credit he deserves, even out in Vanriot. Always considered one of the top-3 goalies in the game. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2011 : 07:51:26
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Surprised by some of the responses thus far, but not that two goalies in particular where bypassed.
Those two would be Hiller & Fleury. I presume both are always left off the list because everybody always throws out the notion that they have high powered offenses & receive lots of offensive support, but these goalies are regularly pushed aside when it comes to the top tier goalies in the league. This amazes me because guys like Rinne, Bryzgalov, Backstrom & Kiprusoff usually get thrown out their, but the fact they play in defensive smothering systems never negates their mention on the list.
Call it biased, call it what you like, but I told either Nuxfan or Alex back before the playoffs started that i'd take Fleury anyday over Luongo. Next to Corey Perry he was easily the second half MVP, as the Pens had no business making the push they did with the on ice product they delivered every night.
As far as overrated to me its hands down Mikka Kiprusoff. Don't get me wrong he is a quality goalie, but he is also far removed from the quality he showed during the cup run yrs ago.
Lastly, even though I really like Rinne & think he is great I don't like putting alot of stock on goalies who play in defensive oriented systems as they rarely face an onslaught of quality shots or odd man rushes. Halak could not be more proof of a goalie who played well, but behind a defensively responsible team & Chris Osgoode is another example when he left the Wings for the Blues after a stable Detroit team made him look great.
(Don't try & pick apart this sentence by trying to use Brodeur as an example as the other guys are simply not of his talent level period!!!)
Top goalies to me in no particular order would be Lundqvist, Thomas, Miller, Fleury & Luongo followed closely by Hiller Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Ward & Rinne.
Every journey begins with a single step. |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/20/2011 : 09:56:01
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over-rated: jimmy howard, ilya bryzgalov, craig anderson, cory schneider, james reimer, jose theodore, js giguere
under-rated: cam ward, mikka kiprusoff, henrik lundqvist, pekka rinne, jonas hiller, tomas vokoun, mike smith
goalies who are changing sides of the over/under rated: martin brodeur(under to over), carey price(over to under), marty turco (dallas to benchwarmer)
above all rick dipietro has to be the most overrated, overpayed, useless cancer in the league |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2011 : 11:58:54
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Not really hockey related but certainly pertaining to posting.
Guest4312, I am sure you meant no harm, but please could you, and anyone else, who seem unable to use a better descriptor than 'cancer", in such negative connotations, please try and refrain from doing so.
Cancer is a disease and at times a very dire one, and has no business being used in the sense that some seem to need to when unable to use more appropriate words.
I realize I may be sounding petty, and the intent was most likely not one of negativity, but for those of us who are survivors, it's an unnecessary use of the word, and quite frankly, I find it upsetting that it's used as such.
Not trying to stir anything up, just asking for some basic understanding and consideration, as it's been used in here a few times as a description regarding disapproval, and that's not at all what it is, especially to those of us, who wear our 'yellow shirts' with pride. |
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Guest4312
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Posted - 06/20/2011 : 15:42:04
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| hey not sure if my name will be coming up again as guest 4312 but i wrote that last reply and i have to say i am completely shocked after writing that it never even crossed my mind and to you sir my deepest apologies. i regret using the word in that way and will no longer do so. thank you for letting me know it offended you, i took no offense to how you went about letting me know |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2011 : 15:50:38
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Very classy response 4312. 
I have to say, it's always bothered me as well and we hear it all to often in the media where a certain player is a "cancer in the dreesing room" and that sort of thing.
While i've been fortunate enough to have not been inflicted, it's affected many of my closest friends and families as i'm sure it has many of us here.
Again, 4312, props to you for your classy post!  |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2011 : 15:54:14
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Thanks for that Guest, I intended no animosity to anyone, and realize it's an expression and only that, but probably one that is not really necessary in today's times.
Thanks again, I appreciate your reply. |
Edited by - fat_elvis_rocked on 06/20/2011 15:55:14 |
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Overrated & Underrated Goalies 
