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 Should the Vancouver Canucks keep Roberto Luongo? Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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Guest6810
( )

Posted - 11/25/2011 :  17:07:08  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Do you think the Canucks should keep Luongo for the rest of his contract?

Choices:

Yes
No

(Anonymous Vote)

Edited by - Beans15 on 11/26/2011 07:12:40

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2011 :  18:14:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you can't spell "Canucks" correctly, i can't answer your poll......sorry.
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Guest7019
( )

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  05:04:24  Reply with Quote
Too funny. I hope you don't call yourself a 'nucks fan
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  08:44:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the edit Beans, now i can vote!

It's a tricky question, because there's no telling what the chances are they could get rid of him, and when. To get rid of him now, would return cap space, and that's about it. Not necessarily a bad thing, but i don't see any teams offering up any big names to take on his long term contract, even if it is cap friendly.

What you do have to keep in mind is that as the salary (yearly) decreases, there could be teams willing to take on his cap hit, though his yearly pay goes from 10mil this year to 6.7 for the next 7 years still! At a cap hit of just 5.3, it's possible that a team needing to spend due to the cap floor could be interested. This is all moot of course due to his NTC. He'd have to agree to a deal until the NTC ends which i can't remember exactly when that occurs.
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  09:11:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another quality goaltender destroyed in Vancouver!!! With the decreasing salary you would think the Canucks would keep him around for insurance and an option if Schneider goes in the tank which is possible. The fans in Vancouver can't appreciate what they have with this guy. He took them to game 7 of the final last year. That's as successful a run as ever achieved by the team??? Jury's out whether CS could have done the same!! A couple of solid games by the backup and pow out goes RL? Baffles me!! If I'm a Canuck fan I want both these guys playing lights out with the hottest taking the reins!!

See last years champs Rask / Thomas

RIP RL
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Guest4763
( )

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  10:44:06  Reply with Quote
I wish the terrible, impatient, bandwagoner fans of Vancouver would find a new team to cheer for because they have no appreciation for what they have. Last year wasn't proof enough how good Luongo is?
The Olympic gold the year before wasn't good enough? Having one of the top 5 goalies in almost every category since the lockout isn't good enough?
You know what's not good enough for Vancouver?
THEIR FANS!!!

I think the team should trade the fans!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  13:31:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This question comes up every year around this time - its usually my indicator that things have bottomed for VAN in the early season and its finally time for them to get their game together

The seemingly annual Luongo question is complicated this year by the emergence of Schnieder last year. Unlike years past, the Canucks have a very good young backup that they brought up through their own system. He is considered by many (along with Rask) to be the brightest young goalies currently not starting for their team. However, while Rask will probably take the starting job next year or the year after from an aging Thomas, Schneider plays behind Luongo, who has 10 years to go in his career and contract. So, problems for the Canucks:

- The odds are very good that VAN will not be able to keep both goalies next year, Already paying Luongo 5.33 (cap), they can't afford to commit too much to goaltending. Schneider is RFA and will almost certainly want a raise on his 900K salary. There are many teams in need of a young starting goalie, and he would be easily traded, probably for significant value back.

- Schneider, in his limited time in goal over the last 2 seasons, has played as well as Luongo, in many cases better. He seems very relaxed in net and is positionally strong, and is also very calm and unemotional off the ice.

- He is 6 years younger than Lu, and were he to take the starting job in VAN, would be signable for less money and less years - thus allowing the Canucks to fill voids in other positions, or even take a flyer on a big RFA (yeah, I'm looking at you Weber!). He would allow for options.

So, armed at last with a capable replacement, the Canuck management have some choices to make. I don't think money is the issue - they're a cap-spending profitable team that has no problem paying a player if they think they're the one that can get the job done. If they lose confidence in Luongo, he will be moved.

quote:

Having one of the top 5 goalies in almost every category since the lockout isn't good enough?



No, it is not. Having one of the top 5 goalies in the NHL is only good enough
if you think that goalie can take you all the way.

Expectations are sky-high in Vancouver this year, and I truly believe that management would consider anything less than a return trip to the finals a failure - they have a year or two left in their window, before big names come up for re-signing. If they do not make it this year, they will look to see what the problem is - and at that point anything is possible.


Edited by - nuxfan on 11/26/2011 13:32:55
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Guest4277
( )

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  14:40:56  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4763

I wish the terrible, impatient, bandwagoner fans of Vancouver would find a new team to cheer for because they have no appreciation for what they have. Last year wasn't proof enough how good Luongo is?
The Olympic gold the year before wasn't good enough? Having one of the top 5 goalies in almost every category since the lockout isn't good enough?
You know what's not good enough for Vancouver?
THEIR FANS!!!

I think the team should trade the fans!


You are absolutely correct.
They have never won a cup, they couldn't win it last season, and they will never win it or even come close again.
The fans will be long gone by May... and Luongo will still be there collecting his millions and good for him!
Vancouver fans are slowly becoming worse than Leaf fans.
Should these fools trade Luongo, he'll make sure he wins a cup with his new team.
Then what? Riot time?
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  17:22:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4277

They have never won a cup, they couldn't win it last season, and they will never win it or even come close again.




Yo Genie, time to return to your lantern!!! Or, if you're gonna stick around, at least give a few of us some lottery numbers that are gonna come up? Don't be so selfish!

Nuxfan, very good post. The luxury the Canucks had last year at the trade deadline, was having Schneider signed for another year. It was a no brainer to keep him as a backup with such a good chance to win the cup. Same goes this season, but the prob is now, he's RFA at the end of the year, which could pose problems. I think it's well known that he's earned a shot at a starters spot, be it here or elsewhere. I can't see him willing to sign here for any dollar value if he's not given a shot as the starter!!!

Looking ahead, do the Canucks deal him at the deadline for some help? Or do they keep him as a backup for another playoff run? If we listen to the genie, you'd better just deal him because the Canucks will "never win the cup nor come close again" but management may not be rubbing the lamp and therefore decide to keep him. What happens if Luongo breaks his leg the night before the playoffs begin? Do you enter the playoffs with, regardless of what the genie thinks, a team capable of going deep and maybe winning the cup, with an unknown in net??? Very tough call!!!
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2011 :  19:43:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good points Nux and Alex I tend to agree there is a decision to make but as I said previously and pointed out by Alex having both these goalies available is a good problem to have if one were to get hurt!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2011 :  08:56:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
according to reports, the Canucks have apparently floated Luongo's name in trade talks: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/12/06/canucks_luongo/. So far no takers due to the contract.

I can't say I'm surprised - my feeling is that the shine on Luongo is starting to fade in VAN, and while they'll more than likely move one of the goalies, its no longer a slam dunk that it'll be Luongo staying.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4578 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  05:05:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very interesting if Luongo is TRULY on the market in a real sense (and not just being floated by newspaper writers trying to sell papers).

I certainly think there would be takers, but someone has to walk me through what the terms of his contract are from this year onward to get a sense of how possible that is.

Hey - can you imagine Luongo back in Florida, behind a better team?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest6199
( )

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  06:43:16  Reply with Quote
Should Luongo get 3 pool pts for 23 minutes?!?
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  08:35:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6199

Should Luongo get 3 pool pts for 23 minutes?!?



i hope so! cuz i have Corey and Roberto and it would be annoying to not get a shut out out of this!!

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  08:46:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6199

Should Luongo get 3 pool pts for 23 minutes?!?



Luongo got the win last night, he left the net up 2-0, and they won 6-0. So yes, he should get your points.

I don't think a SO was given in last nights game to either goalie.

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I certainly think there would be takers, but someone has to walk me through what the terms of his contract are from this year onward to get a sense of how possible that is.



The cap hit is 5.33 for the next 10 years after this one. His actual salary is 6.7M for the next 6 years, and then drops off to 3.3, 1.6, and 1 for each of the last 2. I don't doubt that he'll have retired before the end of the deal. He has a NTC

The interesting part is the out clauses, there are two. After year 5, Luongo can facilitate a trade, and after year 7, the team can facilitate a trade - each of which suspend the NTC for a period of time, and provide an out to either side.

I do believe that there is a taker for this contract, should the Canucks really be serious about moving him and keeping Schneider - as someone else said, if Gomez could be moved, anyone could be moved . The Canucks might not get back what they consider "fair value", and might have to take on another albatross in return, but it could be done.

I actually think that TB might be a good landing spot for Luongo, should it come to that - they need a goalie, they have cap space, and if things didn't work out he would very much like to go back to Florida (wife and wife's family are there, and apparently his Florida-raised wife is none too happy about Canadian winters, even Vancouver ones!).

Edited by - nuxfan on 12/07/2011 08:49:02
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Guest0231
( )

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  09:21:24  Reply with Quote
Hey, why did Lou get three points? I dont think the league gave him a shutout?
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2262 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  09:50:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0231

Hey, why did Lou get three points? I dont think the league gave him a shutout?




shhhhhh three much needed points!!


"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  10:16:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One things is certain, if Luongo was to move today the deal would almost certainly be for a similar 'lame duck' contract. Maybe Ohlund back to Vancouver with a prospect or draft pick??

I don't think Luongo is done as a goalie, but I think his time in Vancouver is drawing to a close. Van is easily the 2nd/3rd toughest place to play hockey today outside of TO and MONT. In many cases, I think it might be tougher to play in VAN than TO because the expectation of the team today is higher. VAN should win and the fans expect it. The TO fans are a little more accepting of their teams performance after years of mediocre performance.

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  11:23:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

One things is certain, if Luongo was to move today the deal would almost certainly be for a similar 'lame duck' contract. Maybe Ohlund back to Vancouver with a prospect or draft pick??



I think regardless of when he were to be moved, a similar deal coming the other way would be in the cards - Ohlund would be a good one to come back as he has history in VAN and played his best years here - I was always a bit dissapointed that he was going to retire a non-Canuck. But thats just wishful thinking... In the case of a trade with TB, I wonder if they would perhaps not want VAN to take Lecavalier - certainly a better player than Ohlund, but with a deal similar in size/length to Luongo. However, the last thing that VAN needs is a top-2 centre.

Regardless, I don't think any trade involving either goalie will happen during the year (unless a sweetheart deal came along) - having 2 great goalies is a good problem for any team gunning for the cup to have, and I think it benefits the Canucks to have them both right now. Come the summer though, something is going to happen for sure.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  11:31:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lecavalier?? I think that is wishful thinking. Very wishful thinking. I get that their contracts are similar but Lecavalier is coming off a great playoff and strong first 20 games of this season. More importantly, who would be the #3 centre in Vancouver?? Sedin, Kesler, and Lecavalier on one team?? Seems like a waste does it not??

I think the Canucks are picking up momentum and moving towards the top of the table. They will be contenders again however I don't think their missing puzzle piece is a forward. I think the Canucks learned first hand what a depleted defense does to a team in the playoffs and specifically that puck moving, offensive guy like Hamhuis/Ehrhoff. I think the Canucks will regret moving Ehrhoff and should look to replace him before adding another top tier centre to their team. If they are looking at all.
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Guest8113
( )

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  12:11:08  Reply with Quote
What is wrong with you people ?? Luongo has a LONG term deal with a no trade. He will not , can not be traded. The team either waves him or plays him. News flash .... He is still a top 6 goalie in this league and will not be waved.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  12:37:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yah, because no one with a NTC ever gets traded...

Beans - I agree with you about Lecavalier, I honestly don't think the Canucks would want him, nor would TB be overly willing to part with him - I think I said as much in my post. However, if I'm Yzerman, do I want to have 2 very long-term contracts eating up 15-20% of my cap space for the next decade? Not really...

I'm not too worried about the Canucks defense at this point - Edler has emerged as that puck moving offensive defenseman, and overall their top-6 are very good. Staying healthy is the key though - looking back at last year's final, I think the loss of Hamhuis in game 1 was a serious game changer.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  14:02:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Depth is key. Injuries happen. You can not control if the team stays healthy or not. You can control the talent in the kiddie pool waiting to get called into the big boy pool.

Edler and Hamhuis were both in Vancouver last season as was Ehrhoff. Look what happened. I still think the Canucks need another piece on the back end but that's just me.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2011 :  16:43:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lecavalier was mentioned before when Luongo trade talks came on and i wouldn't be shocked if TB wanted him to be a part of the deal but i would be shocked if Vancouver agreed to take him, unless they had a third team willing to take on his deal! Luongo is still a top tier goalie in the league, but his long term contract is what will scare other teams and likely make his return seem very little. I've said from the get go (since rumours of the Canucks keeping Schneider began) that there's no way they'll get fair market value as the potential suiters are few, and they will know this! I do agree that if he goes somewhere, it would be in the off season. Maybe another playoff disappointment would see him more than willing to waive his NTC. Obviously as a Canucks fan, i don't want it to come to that and would prefer he either step his game up (playoffs) and / or leave with a ring!

Beans, i'd agree with your analogy of Vancouver being one of the more difficult places to play, but at this point, the goalie position in Vancouver is certainly top of the list of most difficult!!!

As far as the Canucks needs, i'm not so sure it's a dman myself. Edler is playing lights out, Hamhuis is having a good start and Ballard is back playing like the guy the Canucks thought they were trading for! Had Ballard been playing like this last year, the Canucks could likely have handled the lost of Hamhuis better. Are there really any teams out there with 8 or more "starter worthy" dmen on their squad come playoffs? I'd say not. Every team needs depth, yes, but it could just as easily be at forward where they get crippled. Lose 2 of your top six and you're likely toast. IMO, the injury to Kesler (which he played through but was not near his level of last season) in the playoffs was just as damaging and maybe more than the Hamhuis one. Without rehashing the Stanley Cup Final talk again, i still believe with a PP clicking like it did for most of the season for the Canucks, they'd have won that series. It's the same argument i have with friends who say we need a knuckle dragger here to police the Sedins & Co. The refs gave the Canucks enough PP's to win 4 games vs the B's, only their PP dried up.

Back to Lou.... I agree with nuxfan, he's likely here till the summer as he (Schneider) is RFA after the year is done meaning the Canucks can't lose him and get nothing in return. They could possibly get him signed too as he won't command 5+ mil seeing as he has yet to prove he could be a legit #1 and play 60 odd games a season. If he is offered that kind of money, the Canucks would have to either match and trade Luongo then, or let Schneider go and take the compensation in the way of draft picks. It's just unlikely they trade him and go into the playoffs with Luongo and an unproven backup when their window of opportunity with the twins is at it's peak.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4578 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2011 :  06:34:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan - thanks for the breakdown.

That is a nice easy cap hit for a premier goalie, especially so for a team that can afford the actually salary.

I think the price might put TB out of the running myself, although I agree that looks like a good fit at fist glance. Same with Florida. And it's clear that Luongo would love to pick a team near Florida, at least a place that is warmer in winter.

But first, the Canucks would have to actually fully decide on Schneider, sign him to a multi-year deal (or at least work out the details informally), THEN deal Luongo.

I can really see this happening, the more I think about it . . . but what the heck do you get back fro Luongo from a TB?

Lecavalier, perhaps?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2011 :  08:43:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

nuxfan - thanks for the breakdown.

That is a nice easy cap hit for a premier goalie, especially so for a team that can afford the actually salary.

I think the price might put TB out of the running myself, although I agree that looks like a good fit at fist glance. Same with Florida. And it's clear that Luongo would love to pick a team near Florida, at least a place that is warmer in winter.

But first, the Canucks would have to actually fully decide on Schneider, sign him to a multi-year deal (or at least work out the details informally), THEN deal Luongo.

I can really see this happening, the more I think about it . . . but what the heck do you get back fro Luongo from a TB?

Lecavalier, perhaps?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Ironically enough, his cap hit vs salary is probably a limiting factor for his destination. Many of the teams that need goaltending the most are not cash-rich teams, and there are relatively few teams in the league that are willing to pay a salary higher than the cap hit for a quality player. But we will see.

I think if the Canucks decide to go this way, resigning Schneider would not be a problem - he has said more than once that he likes it in VAN, he was drafted and developed by the team, he has a good relationship here. He'd get a raise from his current 900K, but it would not be in Luongo territory - I would think a Reimer type deal would get it done.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5790 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2011 :  11:48:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think someone mentioned it already, but what about a return to Florida? As far as i can see, they have plenty of cap space and a team which is overachieving to the point that some feel they're legit?

I said in the summer that i could only see a team, like Florida, taking him on if they needed to get to the cap floor. However, now with their hot start, would they consider him at that money? I sort of doubt it, but i get the feeling that ownership doesn't want to spend to the cap! Also, who would come the other way. IF it were a money issue, B. Campbell would be the obvious one, but he's done so well for them thus far that they may not want to give up on him. Also, at 7.1, would Gillis even begin to think of taking him on as we've discussed at length, his own "cap" that he has here in Vancouver for his dmen.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2011 :  12:01:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I said in the summer that i could only see a team, like Florida, taking him on if they needed to get to the cap floor. However, now with their hot start, would they consider him at that money? I sort of doubt it, but i get the feeling that ownership doesn't want to spend to the cap! Also, who would come the other way. IF it were a money issue, B. Campbell would be the obvious one, but he's done so well for them thus far that they may not want to give up on him. Also, at 7.1, would Gillis even begin to think of taking him on as we've discussed at length, his own "cap" that he has here in Vancouver for his dmen.



The Canucks don't have the cap room to take on Campbell, period. In this scenario, they would have to deal Luongo + 2M more in cap space to make it happen, which means another significant player going to FLA. Unless some shiny prospect were coming the other way with Campbell, I don't see it happening. Also, I wonder if Luongo would veto that trade destination, family or not.
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Guest6813
( )

Posted - 12/27/2011 :  13:34:31  Reply with Quote
Yes they keepy Lu.
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Guest4729
( )

Posted - 12/27/2011 :  22:24:10  Reply with Quote
aaaaah good old Vancouver fans, worst in the league!
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 12/28/2011 :  11:12:42  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4729

aaaaah good old Vancouver fans, worst in the league!



But First in the Standings
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Guest6592
( )

Posted - 12/28/2011 :  12:09:52  Reply with Quote
*2nd....
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 12/30/2011 :  09:48:30  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6592

*2nd....



check again...
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Guest0027
( )

Posted - 01/08/2012 :  14:40:02  Reply with Quote
I can't believe these Vancouver fans!
I just went through this discussion, and back in mid December they had him thrown under the bus, looking at possible trades and wondering about his value!!!!
Since then, he's missed maybe 2 games and has played about 9 games losing only 2 with a couple of shutouts to boot.
I guess Vancouver fans have now moved from Luongo trade talks to Luongo being a major player in their playoff picture?? What, no more trade talks now that his value has increased???
What a bunch of bandwagoners.... These fans make Leafs fans look good!!!!
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Guest5537
( )

Posted - 05/27/2012 :  20:04:23  Reply with Quote
no thanks, he's a choker in the playoffs
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