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admin
Forum Admin



Canada
2145 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2011 :  00:21:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
We are now over 30 games into the 2011 regular season and Phil Kessel of the Toronto Maple Leafs is still hanging on to first place in points. Will he win the Art Ross Trophy for the most points at the end of the season?

Choices:

Yes
No

(Anonymous Vote)

Go_Habs_Go
Rookie



157 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2011 :  10:52:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i think he will keep up a good pace, and finish with around 85 pts...but this is Stamkos' year

"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2011 :  11:52:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No(that's all I have to say).
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Stamkos a Hab
Top Prospect



Canada
74 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2011 :  12:49:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve Stamkos go the art ross

Sucks 2 be the rest of ya
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2ForInstigating
Top Prospect



13 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2011 :  16:33:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Stamkos is a hack, and the leafs will always fail in the end.... wait and see what doesn't happen...
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2011 :  19:28:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Keep up what ?? Having a great season ?? Of course he can. As to winning the Art Ross, who cares, as long as he is contributing to the leafs ( as a leaf fan ) i`m satisfied.

Kessel is a great hockey player, wish people would give all the focus on this guy a rest.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  01:02:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Keep up what ?? Having a great season ?? Of course he can. As to winning the Art Ross, who cares, as long as he is contributing to the leafs ( as a leaf fan ) i`m satisfied.

Kessel is a great hockey player, wish people would give all the focus on this guy a rest.



Awww, c'mon Duke, don't start playing the "stop picking on the Leafs" card! Lol....

Read the question again! I'm pretty sure it says "Will he win the Art Ross Trophy for the most points at the end of the season?" Taking into consideration that when the question was asked, Kessel was alone in first and had been pretty much from the beginning of the season, is the question not fair??? If he question was "Will Henrik Sedin win the Art Ross?" you'd have prob complained that the OP was overlooking Kessel and that he wasn't getting the respect he deserves!

Why don't you just answer the question?
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  04:38:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let me say as one of the biggest Leaf defenders out there that this was indeed a very fair question. Especially considering that his past high in points was surprisingly last year, with 64.

Kessel has cooled off somewhat, but not dramatically so, and he is still on pace for over 100 points (a total which I think is very, very unlikely). Currently, he is back "atop" the standings, in a 4 way logjam after a big night from Malkin, with Giroux (still out with a concussion) and Henrik Sedin. Daniel Sedin is 1 point behind, and the surging Stamkos, plus Hossa, Spezza are 2 points behind them.

Statistically, it is incredibly improbable that the winner of this year's Art Ross finishes with anything less than 95 points or so; and it is just as improbable, despite the hot start, that Kessel can finish above that total. A jump of 64 points in one full year to getting 95+ is . . . well, it almost never happens. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I would never bet on it.

A big jump seems very likely - 75 points seems to be well assured at this point. Combine that with the everpresent Sedins who are a yearly threat to reach 100 points, together with Stamkos who looks like he will be there as well, and certainly Giroux could be there if he comes back strong - I think Kessel will find himself in that "second tier" pack at the end of the season, with the Hossas and Vaneks of the NHL world. Very solid; but not NHL leading.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  20:30:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not playing the ...pick on the leafs card Alex...but didn`t we just have a 6 - 10 month thread on the Phil Kessel trade ?? Who else garners that much attention ?? I`m just saying the guy is always in the spot light for some reason or another.

Both Sedins are in the top 10 in scoring each and every season ( so it seems ) but they have not led the Canucks to the holy grail...and they are both on the same team...maybe more attention should be focused on them here instead of Phil Kessel.... oh wait...they don`t wear the leafs jersey...

The guy is having a great season so far and as a leaf fan i`m very pleased with that. Art Ross or not he is a very important player for the maple leafs.

Right now the leafs are hovering around the last playoff spot in the east...if not for their first line ( which of course includes kessel ) i`d bet they would be in 14 th at best....kessel is a very, very important part to the leafs line - up.
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Guest4996
( )

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  01:28:33  Reply with Quote
I'm a huge leafs fan, and i can see him finishing top 5. Jonathan Toews will win the Art Ross this year, and likely the Hart. Should be the face of the nhl, and will be in 2 years. I predict another cup for the hawks by then, and Toews will lead Canada to olympic gold in 2014. Then it will be, Sid who ? You mean that guy who sells reebok ?
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Guest6786
( )

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  05:32:50  Reply with Quote
unless the Leafs can start to find some consistent secondary scoring, I will say no he can't. right now the Leafs are clearly a one line scoring team (some may argue a two man scoring team), and Kessel and Lupul are continuing to see the oppositions top defenders. as a result the top lines production has been slowly dropping off from the tremendous start they had. and i expect this trend to continue until the 2nd line picks up some of the slack.
it's been fun to see Kessel's name (and Lupul's for that matter) among the top's in the NHL, but my heart and my gutt don't see them remaining there for the entire season.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  09:00:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Not playing the ...pick on the leafs card Alex...but didn`t we just have a 6 - 10 month thread on the Phil Kessel trade ?? Who else garners that much attention ?? I`m just saying the guy is always in the spot light for some reason or another.

Both Sedins are in the top 10 in scoring each and every season ( so it seems ) but they have not led the Canucks to the holy grail...and they are both on the same team...maybe more attention should be focused on them here instead of Phil Kessel.... oh wait...they don`t wear the leafs jersey...

The guy is having a great season so far and as a leaf fan i`m very pleased with that. Art Ross or not he is a very important player for the maple leafs.

Right now the leafs are hovering around the last playoff spot in the east...if not for their first line ( which of course includes kessel ) i`d bet they would be in 14 th at best....kessel is a very, very important part to the leafs line - up.



Duke, it appears to me as though you are in fact playing the "don't pick on the Leafs card"! Unless i'm interpretting it incorrectly, your post seems to be a complaint that the OP is in some way trying to be negative towards the Leafs and / or Kessel, when in fact, it's a very legitimate question!

It's nothing new here, and has been discussed at length, the amount of Leaf banter, etc there is on sites like this one. It's common knowledge that the Leafs garner much attention, have more fans than most, etc etc due to various things such as them being from Toronto, their history, etc. My whole point is, what in the world is wrong with the original question / poll??? It's got nothing to do with whether or not the Sedin's will ever bring a cup to the city of Vancouver. If you want to debate that, start a thread about it and i'll gladly share my opinion on it.

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  09:25:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nothing is wrong with the original question. The issue is the current situation. When Kessel was clear of the pack through the first 20 games of the season than Duke had no issue discussing Kessel as the best player in the NHL in the aforementioned Kessel trade topic. Times have now changed and Kessel is still among the elite scorers in the league but not clear of the field so the comments change to (and I paraphrase) who cares if he is the Art Ross winner.

It's typical Dukism's. Not to be confused with Leafisms as they are not even close to the same. Dukism's are changes in opinions based on the situation. Leafisms are changes in volume. When the Leafs go good there is tons of chatter. When the Leafs go bad, there is more silence. Dukism's do not change in frequency but the message changes.

This is nothing new.

* To make sure I am not jumped on for being a Leaf Hater, Leafisms are the same as Sensisms, Oilerisms, Flamisms, Canuckisms, and Habisms. All fans are more vocal during good times and more quiet during bad times. But there are just more Leaf fans so the volume and the silence is more deafening.

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  10:38:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dukism`s...thats a good one, lmao.

Heres my point...( why i say some of the things i say )

For the last year or more, all i`ve read here by non - leaf fans ( not all but most ) is post after post how the leafs received J**k - S**T in the kessel deal...which is of course, Phil kessel...

Brian Burke is brain dead...one of the worst trades of all time...Leafs got ripped off big time...etc...etc...the list goes on

Now all of a sudden here we are with a post posing the question...can Phil kessel win the Art Ross ??....is this the same crap player who the leafs got ripped off on ??....is this the guy who was part of " one of the worst trades in NLH history " ??

Really ?? lol...oh my god.

Phil kessel doesn`t have enough secondary scoring behind him to keep up this pace all season. He and his linemates are too easy to focus in on. They are the only players right now ( TO`s 1st line ) opposing coaches have to shut down...this is much easier to do when you ( as an opposing coach ) DO NOT have to focus in on any other scoring from the opposing team.

If the Grabo line can catch on fire as they did in the second half of last season, ( taking much of the focus off the kessel line ) who knows what kessel can accomplish.

With regards to actually winning the Art Ross...most likely not...i`d give him a 35 % winning shot, with of course a 65 % chance of not winning the Art Ross.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  11:03:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really don't want to take this off line, however Duke you are so off side it is not even fun. You can go back through that entire Kessel trade thread and read it again and again and not find what you are saying. In fact, I don't think anyone has commented that the Leafs got jack from the deal. Perhaps a 'troll' guest or two making one word statement did, but who cares? The overwhelming opinion from the other side of the coin is simply the Leafs paid too much. Not that they got a crap player, but they paid too much for the player they received. No one said this IS the worst trade of all time. Some (including myself) have stated it MIGHT BECOME one of the worst trades of all time IF Seguin, Knight, and Hamilton all meet or exceed their potential.

There appears to be a massive variance between what is written and what you read. I encourage you to go back through the thread and see for yourself.


To your points about the Leaf's lack of secondary scoring. Great point. Kessel has cooled and I agree that part of that is teams can almost completely focus on his line defensively. Shut down Kessel/Lupul/and XX (insert Bozak or Connolly when healthy) and you shut down the Leafs. It will make it difficult to maintain his pace. Comparatively, guys like Malkin, Sedin (either one), Giroux, et al do have better secondary scoring that will not allow the opposition to solely focus on one line.

I would have no issue with Kessel winning the Art Ross, as long as it is with 64 pts or less, hey Slozo!!

PS, Speaking of Art Ross trophies, who was that guy talking so big about Giroux at the start of the year??? Does anyone remember that guy who said Giroux would be top 10 in scoring??? If you remember the name of that guy, please let me know!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  11:27:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, i remember that guy, and i know many who, especially now, are hoping that Giroux gets another knock to the head! Man, i knew he was good, but i never thought he'd be putting up the numbers he is as of now! And, doing it without Van Riemsdyk, who i thought would have to have a similar increase for him to do so! He's found some great chemistry with the "old guy" (Jagr). Anyway, kudos on a nice prediction....

Now, back on topic.

DUKE! BTW, love the term "dukism". Like Beans said, not many said the Leafs got squat, but that they overpaid. It was an opinion. Opinions can't be wrong, but they can change. While the debate will rage on until the rest of the pieces of the puzzle are half way through their careers in the NHL, at this point, i'll admit, it doesn't look nearly as bad as it did before. However, and this is a big IF, if Seguin continues to improve at the rate he has thus far, it will be, in my mind, a big overpayment once again. That's the toughest part for anyone defending the Burke side of this deal, is that Sequin seemed to mature overnight (this overnight being the off season) and is now quickly becoming a franchise player for the Bruins!!

Anyway, like i said, the OP's question was not at all unfair, uncalled for, derogatory towards Kessel and the Leafs, etc. It just seems you jumped on it the wrong way without explaining your frustrations, which in the end, really were warranted anyway!

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  14:21:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Beans, i remember that guy, and i know many who, especially now, are hoping that Giroux gets another knock to the head!



Yep, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, I don't want to lose my bet with Beans, and the way things are going, Giroux will be a cinch to hit 90 pts this year.

On the other hand, I have Giroux in 2 of my pools... curses!
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Guest9046
( )

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  19:41:39  Reply with Quote
Look...no leaf has won the scoring title since before they won their last cup. It's fun to talk about, but Kessel isn't goint to put up 30+ more points than his best-ever total this season to win the Art Ross.

On the other hand, to see Kessel and Lupul in the top 3 tandems in the league (Sedins and Toews/Hossa the others) is a breath of fresh air for leaf fans (of which I'm one).

As a hockey fan, I'm sorry to the fans of every other team except Montreal. None of you are ever going to get the kind of press, coverage, or cyber-chatter as we (Leaf and Hab fans) do. It tough, but I assume you get used to it.

Happy Hpoidays to everyone and lets see some more great hockey in the new year!
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Guest2260
( )

Posted - 12/23/2011 :  07:31:18  Reply with Quote
I am very excited to see Kessel atop the leauge in scoring for the first half of the year, I think Lupul has a lot to do with it there is some chemistry for sure. I think Kessel will continue to play big for Toronto but I don't see him finishing on top.

It is hard to ignore Giroux he was quietly a top 10 finnisher last year and has been a 1 man show in Philly this year. points aside whatching him play is just impressive.
I also like Malkin to contend for top spot he has been getting better and better as he gets healthier this season and i think plays very well with Neal.
I expect a big finnish from Toews not many people talking about him but man is he giving Crosby a run for his money this year in playing style and hockey smarts I think this guy will explode the last half of the year.
Finnaly the Sedins while they seem to score more assists than goals and I am not a fan of that they are about as consistent as the NHL has had in probably 10 years.
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Guest2853
( )

Posted - 12/24/2011 :  13:24:23  Reply with Quote
Leafs were amazing at the start of the year last year too but did they make the playoffs no
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2011 :  21:02:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest the leafs only won 4 straight games at the start of last season...i don`t know how one would classify that as amazing.

I think they may have only won 1 of their next 12 after that ( or something around there ) .

So winning 5 games out of your first 15 - 17 games isn`t exactly Amazing.

The leafs are leap years ahead ( at this point of the season ) this year....compared to where they were last year at Xmas.
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2011 :  09:34:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At first glance this is a rather personal question about Kessel.
So far he has consistent points production and thats all you can ask for. Goal scoring is not as inconsistent as last year so thats an improvement. He shows no sign of losing the consistency so far and that means he should be able to maintain pace. For the Leafs I sure hope so because they have absolutey no secondary scoring after the top line.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2011 :  21:11:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That was my initial reaction Porkchop. Now i don`t mind the question, kessel is having a wonderful start.

But...my original response revolved around your opening sentence.

Only 7 points seperate the top 15 NHL`ers in the scoring race ( a range from 36 points - 43 points ), thats pretty tight. Of course kessel is singled out in that entire group....just sayin
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