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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2007 : 06:31:47
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Some players have the scoring touch. Who is the best goal scorer you've seen?
"You are not your desktop wallpaper"
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 07:17:52
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Gretzky
Lemieux
Bossy
Hull / Hull
Lafleur
I'm not sure why but people constantly overlook Gretzky when choosing a natural goal scorer. If he didn't know how to score goals then i don't have a clue who did.
Lemieux was just magic. How he could score and what he could do with the puck was incredible. Some of the angles he sored at were unreal.
Gretzky and Lemieux are in the same realm but scored their goals in completely different ways. The other guys exist below them but are also spectacular goal scoring talents.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
Edited by - willus3 on 05/10/2007 07:18:39 |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 11:04:59
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Rick Vaive...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way... |
Edited by - PuckNuts on 05/10/2007 11:10:43 |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 11:17:54
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To me, Bossy stands a little bit above the others. He seemed to score from such a variety of positions and in so many different ways. And he rarely went on slumps - ironically one of his few slumps occured when he was stuck at 49 goals that year he got his 50th in the 50th game.
It seemed to come so easy for him - the others were obviously also extremely natural at times, but on the whole I wonder whether they worked a weee bit harder for their goals (in general I mean). It just appeared a bit easier for Bossy. When you watch some of his goals its like he instinctively knew exactly where the goalie was going (I think some of them he was lucky but that his luck was also based on skill - an incredible feel for angles and the size of the net).
I don't know if it was also cause he just took loads of shots. That's an interesting question. I suppose one way to measure one's natural goal scoring ability would be to look at the shots on net. Pucknuts! This is your area! |
Edited by - andyhack on 05/10/2007 11:19:20 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 11:21:05
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I'd be willing to bet Mario has one of the best shots per goal percentages.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 11:34:56
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You may be right. I suppose a counter-question arises though - should we be penalizing a player in this category just because he took loads of shots. That itself was part of their "natural" ability, the ability to get the shot off, and get it off quickly. Do that enough times, and you'll score a few (Did Gretzky say that? ). Maybe Bossy was "naturally" cognizant of that fact.
I am talking about shots here by the way. For one-on-one dekes, Mario certainly earned his nickname.
p.s. By the way, Willus, how many coffees did you have at breakfast this morning? You have easily toppled the record for number of new topics in a day! |
Edited by - andyhack on 05/10/2007 11:44:30 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 12:17:50
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
You may be right. I suppose a counter-question arises though - should we be penalizing a player in this category just because he took loads of shots. That itself was part of their "natural" ability, the ability to get the shot off, and get it off quickly. Do that enough times, and you'll score a few (Did Gretzky say that?). Maybe Bossy was "naturally" cognizant of that fact.
I am talking about shots here by the way. For one-on-one dekes, Mario certainly earned his nickname.
p.s. By the way, Willus, how many coffees did you have at breakfast this morning? You have easily toppled the record for number of new topics in a day!
Nothing wrong with taking lots of shots. But if you're scoring as much as anyone and taking less shots I'd say you're better at scoring than the other guy. I think there's a hypothetical lurking in here somewhere Andy. 
p.s. I had my usual pot and a half this morning. Trying to be like Gretzky and get as many records as I can.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 13:11:30
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Sorry to go off topic here fellas...Willus, AndyHack, PuckNuts considering your knowledge and experience with the game (and the fact that you guys really put detailed thought into your posts) you should consider writing an article or two for the "Heads Up" forum. We'd love to get some of your perspecitves in a full editorial. 
If you're interested, just fire me an email. admin@ |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 14:53:07
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Goal scoring percentage of some of the top players. It looks like 1967-68 was the first year that the NHL started to track shots.
Bossy - 21.2 %
Lemieux - 19%
Neely - 18.4%
Larouche - 17.8%
Gretzky - 17.6%
Robitaille - 16.9%
Vaive - 16.9%
Messier - 16.4%
Ciccarelli - 16.4%
Brett Hull - 15.2 %
Lafleur - 15.9%
Larmer - 15.7%
Selanne - 15.6%
One game wonders
Dean Morton 1 game for Detroit 89/90 scored 1 goal on 2 shots 50%
Brad Fast 1 game for Carolina 03/04 scored 1 goal on 4 shots 25%
Lead, follow, or get out of the way... |
Edited by - PuckNuts on 05/10/2007 15:10:05 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 15:00:57
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Rick Vaive...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...
Fantastic!!  I enjoy your humour.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2007 : 21:56:23
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Bossy and Lemieux. Gretz, too, of course.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Gretz |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2007 : 10:11:47
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
To me, Bossy stands a little bit above the others. He seemed to score from such a variety of positions and in so many different ways. And he rarely went on slumps - ironically one of his few slumps occured when he was stuck at 49 goals that year he got his 50th in the 50th game.
It seemed to come so easy for him - the others were obviously also extremely natural at times, but on the whole I wonder whether they worked a weee bit harder for their goals (in general I mean). It just appeared a bit easier for Bossy. When you watch some of his goals its like he instinctively knew exactly where the goalie was going (I think some of them he was lucky but that his luck was also based on skill - an incredible feel for angles and the size of the net).
I don't know if it was also cause he just took loads of shots. That's an interesting question. I suppose one way to measure one's natural goal scoring ability would be to look at the shots on net. Pucknuts! This is your area!
Bossy has always been recognized as having the best/fastest release. Often an up-and-comer will have his release compared to Bossy's. Brett Hull evolved into the league's greatest release - it took him a couple seasons though.
Also, I never realised that Vaive's shot % was that high. Keep in mind he spent his last few seasons battling in front of the net, so grazed pucks that didn't go in would count as a shot for the D. But if it went in, now the shot goes to Vaive because he scored the goal. Did Larmer spend much time in the crease, or picking up garbage. I don't recall seeing that he did but I am shocked he is on the % leaderboard. Clearly he simply should have shot more often. That may have vaulted him up the career goals list !
Finally, Gretzky is always overlooked as a great goal-scorer and I think about this often. Why is this ? Is it because he did it every different way ? Slapshots, wristers, back-door, dekes in close... I can recall many big goals of his IN ALL categories of shots and locations. I seem to be able to recall high percentages of other players goals coming, more-so, from certain positions on the ice. Now, having typed that, I realize how unscientific that is. Now before someone puts up a link of Lemieux/Bossy/Hull etc.. scoring from several different angles lets admit that every high scorer scored at least a few of their 400/500/600 goals from each shot or location in the zone. |
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Buick92
Top Prospect
Canada
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2007 : 15:34:47
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| michel goulet is one of the best scorers of all time |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2007 : 19:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Buick92
michel goulet is one of the best scorers of all time
Very, very true. He was great. Very sad how it ended for him.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Guest9910
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Posted - 05/13/2007 : 21:01:16
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| Despite being a better playmaker than goal scorer, I don't think any player comes close to Gretzky in his prime at scoring goals. He scored more than 60 goals FIVE times, and more than 70 goals FOUR times! Twice he scored more than 80 goals, and remains the only player to break the 90 goal barrier. I remember watching an interview with Mike Bossy in which he said scoring 50 goals in 50 games was extremely difficult, and he didn't know how it was possible to score 50 in 39. He said it was a testement to how good Gretzky was. He literally did what everyone felt was impossible. And to think he was a better playmaker! 163 assists in a season! Broke the career assist record in 13 LESS (80 game) seasons than Howe! Boggles the mind. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 01:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9910
Despite being a better playmaker than goal scorer, I don't think any player comes close to Gretzky in his prime at scoring goals. He scored more than 60 goals FIVE times, and more than 70 goals FOUR times! Twice he scored more than 80 goals, and remains the only player to break the 90 goal barrier. I remember watching an interview with Mike Bossy in which he said scoring 50 goals in 50 games was extremely difficult, and he didn't know how it was possible to score 50 in 39. He said it was a testement to how good Gretzky was. He literally did what everyone felt was impossible. And to think he was a better playmaker! 163 assists in a season! Broke the career assist record in 13 LESS (80 game) seasons than Howe! Boggles the mind.
That's why it is so hard to argue about how great Gretzky was without bringing up stats - it is truly mindboggling !! Never, in any athletic endeavour, has there been such a gap between the 1st and 2nd place performers of all time as there is with Gretzky. I have mentioned before how it is so ironic that his dominance comes in such a physical game when he was such a small guy. In another thread someone brings up how , including playoffs, he had 1200 pts in his first five seasons. That is so insane that my head just exploded ! How about winning the scoring race with your assists alone ?? And, yes, I know that scoring isn't the only indicator of how great a player was - but the greatest career-long scorers are recognized as the best and this guy hit 1000 points almost 3 times !!!!!
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Guest9910
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Posted - 05/14/2007 : 01:48:21
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9910
Despite being a better playmaker than goal scorer, I don't think any player comes close to Gretzky in his prime at scoring goals. He scored more than 60 goals FIVE times, and more than 70 goals FOUR times! Twice he scored more than 80 goals, and remains the only player to break the 90 goal barrier. I remember watching an interview with Mike Bossy in which he said scoring 50 goals in 50 games was extremely difficult, and he didn't know how it was possible to score 50 in 39. He said it was a testement to how good Gretzky was. He literally did what everyone felt was impossible. And to think he was a better playmaker! 163 assists in a season! Broke the career assist record in 13 LESS (80 game) seasons than Howe! Boggles the mind.
That's why it is so hard to argue about how great Gretzky was without bringing up stats - it is truly mindboggling !! Never, in any athletic endeavour, has there been such a gap between the 1st and 2nd place performers of all time as there is with Gretzky. I have mentioned before how it is so ironic that his dominance comes in such a physical game when he was such a small guy. In another thread someone brings up how , including playoffs, he had 1200 pts in his first five seasons. That is so insane that my head just exploded ! How about winning the scoring race with your assists alone ?? And, yes, I know that scoring isn't the only indicator of how great a player was - but the greatest career-long scorers are recognized as the best and this guy hit 1000 points almost 3 times !!!!!
And the scary thing is that if Gretzky had avoided the hit by Suter in the 91 Canada Cup, he would have continued at the 160 point per season pace he had established with LA.....and would have finished his career with around 3300 points! It boggles my mind that despite the massive blow to his production, he still scored the most points in the 1990s! Yes, more than Jagr, more than Bure, and more than Lemieux. Even as half the player, he was still the most productive.
Do you know that Gretzky has the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, 10th, 11th and 12th greatest assists seasons in NHL history? That's ludicrous!
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Guest9910
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Posted - 05/14/2007 : 01:53:28
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| Oh, forgot to add... Did you know that in 1984 Gretzky could have stopped playing on January 7th and still won the scoring title? That's THREE months before the season ended! haha, crazy. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:57:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9910
Oh, forgot to add... Did you know that in 1984 Gretzky could have stopped playing on January 7th and still won the scoring title? That's THREE months before the season ended! haha, crazy.
I love new anecdotes about how insane Gretzky was ! I don't remember who, but in another thread someone calls Gretzky an alien. Awesome. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2007 : 01:52:56
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Bure should probably be on the list too...
But I think I'd have to go with Bossy/Hull. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 02:04:59
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| You really have to give a lot of credit to Brett Hull for coming so close to Gretzky's 92 goals. I believe Hull ended with 86 that year. That was pretty darn amazing. Scary too. That is one record that Gretzky says may not be beaten for a long time and it almost got toppled. Now, how about 50 in 39 ?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by admin
Sorry to go off topic here fellas...Willus, AndyHack, PuckNuts considering your knowledge and experience with the game (and the fact that you guys really put detailed thought into your posts) you should consider writing an article or two for the "Heads Up" forum. We'd love to get some of your perspecitves in a full editorial.
If you're interested, just fire me an email. admin@
When I have some time I shall do this. Thank you for the opportunity Admin.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Guest0956
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Posted - 05/18/2007 : 18:35:34
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9910
Oh, forgot to add... Did you know that in 1984 Gretzky could have stopped playing on January 7th and still won the scoring title? That's THREE months before the season ended! haha, crazy.
I love new anecdotes about how insane Gretzky was ! I don't remember who, but in another thread someone calls Gretzky an alien. Awesome.
(Formerly 9910, aka, the person who you and Willus don't like too much! ;) )
That was me who said he was an alien. He was, I think.
As for Brett Hull's 86 goals, it was impressive, but what makes Gretzky's 92 so unbeliievable isn't just the 92 goals themselves. It's also the fact that he ALSO somehow managed 120 assists the same season! That's insane. Brett Hull spent pretty much all his efforts in trying to score goals and still couldn't break the 90 goal barrier. Gretzky spent most of his efforts setting goals up, smashes Bobby Orr's assist record to smitheriens in the process, and still manages to pot 92!
How many assists did Brett Hull get with his 86 goals? Only 45! He totalled 131 points. (Gretzky finished that same 1991 season with 163 points and almost as many assists as Hull had total points! But guess who won the Hart Trophy?) |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 14:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Never, in any athletic endeavour, has there been such a gap between the 1st and 2nd place performers of all time as there is with Gretzky.
I'm sorry, could you please clarify this statement for me please.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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stastnysforever
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
301 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 15:33:57
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Never, in any athletic endeavour, has there been such a gap between the 1st and 2nd place performers of all time as there is with Gretzky.
I'm sorry, could you please clarify this statement for me please.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper"
I'm guessing that there is no sport where first is so much higher than second in the all time scoring list
what do Calgary and a tea bag have in common- they're both only good for one cup |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 15:51:36
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I just read all the posts here now, but for this question I still think Bossy is the right call. His goals per shots percentage support him getting this crown. So does his remarkably quick release. And so does his terrific consistency from Day 1 til almost the end of his too short career. Gretzky - tremendous goal scorer and, yes, slightly overlooked a bit here because of his also amazing playmaking skills*, BUT, not Number 1 in this category in my opinion.
* I say the thing about him being overlooked with a bit of hesitation because I do believe that, overall, very little, if any, pity should be directed towards Gretzky in terms of the attention on his career or praise about his feats - there are too many guys out there who deserve way more attention than they have received to be worried about Wayne being slightly overlooked as one of the greatest goal scorers ever |
Edited by - andyhack on 05/30/2007 16:00:55 |
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stastnysforever
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
301 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 16:11:20
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Selanne and Kurri were both good, but I think it's either Gretzky, Howe, or Bossy
what do Calgary and a tea bag have in common- they're both only good for one cup |
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Topic |
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Best / Most Natural Goal scorer You've Seen 
