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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  16:52:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am stuck in the middle of this one. I agree with Slozo that the trade value of Stastny is not nearly what some are suggesting. He is not a perennial 80 pt guy. He is a legit 60 point guy who can stretch to 80 pts in the right situation. That being said, Stastny is light years ahead of Grabovksi and most fans, GM's, and all other hockey folks outside of TO would agree. You can compare them over the past two years and say they are comparable. But you can not simple toss out the fact that Stasnty has 3 seasons of more than 70 pts in the past 6 seasons.

With that, Stastny's value in a trade is not more than a legit top 6 forward, a quality physical defensemen, and a prospect or pick. I get that Komisarek is not the player that most would want to see in a trade. But if you were to flip the script (assuming before free agency) and say Stastny for Booth, Salo, and a 3 rd round pick, no one is arguing. In fact, that is likely an overpayment for Stastny.

The MacArthur, Komisarek, Kadri deal is very realistic in value. I think this might be a case of Leafus Neglectus.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  17:01:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The problem with this trade happening with the leafs is they don't have what the avs need: scoring wingers. So it's doesn't matter how you package depth forwards, physical dman, and prospects because no combination of that package makes the avalanche a better team or score us more goals next year.

66 is > than 99
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  17:49:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

With that, Stastny's value in a trade is not more than a legit top 6 forward, a quality physical defensemen, and a prospect or pick. I get that Komisarek is not the player that most would want to see in a trade. But if you were to flip the script (assuming before free agency) and say Stastny for Booth, Salo, and a 3 rd round pick, no one is arguing. In fact, that is likely an overpayment for Stastny.



Assuming that VAN were in need of a top-2 centre, if they were able to land Stastny for Booth (a promising winger that can score), Salo (a 38 year old dman at the end of his career) and a 3rd round pick, I would happily see him make that deal. Solid 2-way centres capable of scoring 60 points playing second line on one of the lowest scoring teams in the NHL (who have shown upside of nearly PPG when playing with talent), at the ripe old age of 26 no less, are rarely on the market.

@valanche is probably right, COL needs scoring wingers more than anything - if I had to value Stastny in terms of VAN assets, I would think Booth/Raymond/Tanev, or perhaps Booth/Tanev/2nd round pick, or perhaps Booth/Hansen/2nd round pick. Too steep for VAN for sure, but there will be some team willing and able to pay that.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  18:15:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

Alex to be honest i have nop idea what his value is. i know he was in SJ when burke was there originally.

i know that if the sharks go after nash it wouldn't hurt to get rid of some cap hit.

that being said burke isnt just gonna say ok i will take all the cap hit and risk invovled. something will be sent back. to replace him and maybee a smaller salary dump of our own

i am thinking mac arthur, and lombardi? maybee kadri to sweaten the deal?
like i said i have no idea what the cost would be for him.



I'm a little confused. Who was in SJ? Burke? Am i forgetting something?

Anyway, i do think this would help SJ in cap means to go after Rick Nash even harder than they have, prob is, like i mentioned before, CBJ seems very stubborn with their requests on return and continue to demand Couture be in the deal for Nash and SJ is not budging, nor do i think they will! So, getting to the value of Marleau, i'd say it would take Kessel, JVR and Gardiner to pry Marleau from the Sharks. Okay, i kid......I think maybe a package of Kulemin, Kadri and either Gunnar or Franson? Maybe a pick thrown TO's way from SJ as well? However, only way Burke would consider imo would be if he was confident that Marleau would sign an extension as he's due up in a couple seasons. If Burke gave up that much and Marleau left as a UFA, it would not be good for Burke (if he's still in TO at that point. )
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  05:58:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i keep forgeting that burke and wilson arent always a package deal. it was wilson that was in SJ at the same time. my bad.

if that is all the leafs needed to land him i am ok with that.

all of this is irrelevant if the sharks don't go for nash though. as you said if the back out on nash than marleau aint goin anywhere.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  08:48:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by @valanche

The problem with this trade happening with the leafs is they don't have what the avs need: scoring wingers. So it's doesn't matter how you package depth forwards, physical dman, and prospects because no combination of that package makes the avalanche a better team or score us more goals next year.

66 is > than 99



Actually, we do have a scoring winger that could be available for trade: Clarke MacArthur. He's a 20 goal at least it would seem. Just a complimentary piece, sure . . . but a decent asset.

Packaged with some other up and coming player, it could be what goes to Colorado for Stastny.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  11:53:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i'm not sure where these Marleau rumours started from (i've read/heard nothing about it in the GTA), but i really hope that they are 100% inaccruate. If BB trades for him then I'd be forced to jump on the "Fire Burke" bandwagon.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  13:44:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why is that Gipper?? Are you not part of the masses calling for a legit #1 centre?? Is that not what Marleau is?? Marleau is a consistant 35-35 guy who excels in any situation and is a true leader. Really, he is everything the Leafs need. I think one of the biggest reasons the Leafs tanks last year was a lack of on-ice/off-ice leadership.

Marleau is a $6.9 million cap hit but only for the next two season. If I were a Leaf fan, I would hope Burke could get a player of Marleau's calibre. As long and he didn't sell the farm to get him.

If Marleau would get you on the fire Burke bandwagon, what kind of deal would you get you on the Burke's a saint bandwagon.

(Completely in jest, leave it to a Leafs fan to talk about bandwagons. What's next, parade discussions?? hehehehehe)

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  13:46:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

i'm not sure where these Marleau rumours started from (i've read/heard nothing about it in the GTA), but i really hope that they are 100% inaccruate. If BB trades for him then I'd be forced to jump on the "Fire Burke" bandwagon.



I hadn't heard anything either Gipper, but i googled "Patrick Marleau" the other day and a few things came up. Now, mostly it just says "Marleau unlikely to be traded" but there are def rumours out there.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  13:48:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

i'm not sure where these Marleau rumours started from (i've read/heard nothing about it in the GTA), but i really hope that they are 100% inaccruate. If BB trades for him then I'd be forced to jump on the "Fire Burke" bandwagon.



Sorry to pick on your spelling, but spelling "inaccurate" as "inaccruate" is a bit priceless. Made me laugh at least.

What you got against Marleau, my Leaf-man? He's a big centre, a proven beast, and sure, he might have his best years behind him, but . . . still a top player who is a near guarantee for 30 goals and 65 points.

I mean, unless we totally sell the farm for him (I don't see Burke doing that), he's totally what we need (a big physical, skilled centre) - just a bit older than perfect, that's all. But 32 means a good 6 years at least of relatively good production, I'd say . . . what's not to like?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  16:04:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

What you got against Marleau, my Leaf-man? He's a big centre, a proven beast, and sure, he might have his best years behind him, but . . . still a top player who is a near guarantee for 30 goals and 65 points.




That, I'm not sure of myself. Marleau has been playing on one of the most stacked offensive lineups for the last several years - Thornton, Heatley/Havlat, Pavelski, Clowe, Couture all in the top 6, and Boyle/Vlasic feeding you pucks on the PP from the point. All while playing in a relatively soft US market.

In that environment, Marleau has shown that he is a steady 35-35 guy. How does he do in TOR, where he joins a top-6 that includes Kessel, Grabo, Lupul...and some other guys? Playing in one of the toughest markets in hockey? Is he the guy that can be the offensive catalyst, or does he need a deep supporting cast to succeed?

Production questions aside, his leadership cannot be questioned, and he is a big strong centre/winger that is excellent defensively as well, so he could help the Leafs. But counting on 70 points in TOR might not be fair.
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  16:54:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nothing against Marleau of course. as a player he is exactly the type of center that Burke should be targeting.
what i don't like about it would be the timing, and the price. he won't come at a cheap price. but you're also trading for him at the wrong time in his career. he's 32. he may have two, maybe three GOOD years left in him. are the Leafs that close to contending? nope. will he stay/sign an extension? or bolt as a UFA in two seasons? well since he probably won't win the cup here in two years, i'm betting he'll bolt to sign with a contender. and after paying the price to get him (probably a combo of youth and picks), once again we'll be left with nothing! just like what happened with countless other short-term help trades the Leafs have made in the past.
so again......nothing against Marleau. he's the kind of player you trade for now if your trying to make the final push to hoist the cup. we are no where near that. if Burke is going to pay the price to get himself a no. 1 center, then he should be younger. one that can give you another 6 solid seasons of hockey......at least!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  07:40:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A few things on Marleau. Nux, it's pretty hard to say he didn't benefit in playing with Thornton in his prime. But I would argue that today, based on skill, speed, age, etc, Kessel and Lupul would be as good if not better than any 2 players Marleau could play with in San Jose.

Secondly, Gipper, it may not be about winning the Cup with Marleau. It's about learning how to win. The Leafs have had a playoff team for the past two seasons and have completely tanked at least one-20 game stretch to take themselves out. They are not often getting beat by the opposition, they are beating themselves. So even if Marleau didn't bring the Cup to TO, he would lead to a culture of winning.

I see huge value for a Marleau or a player like Marleau to the Leafs. On and off the ice. It's not always about the player you get in return but what that player gives you. Do you think the Red Wings are at all upset that Lidstrom retired without them having an opportunity to get something in a trade??

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  07:52:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15



I see huge value for a Marleau or a player like Marleau to the Leafs. On and off the ice. It's not always about the player you get in return but what that player gives you. Do you think the Red Wings are at all upset that Lidstrom retired without them having an opportunity to get something in a trade??

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



I don't see how those two situations are even remotely similar...

66 is > than 99
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  09:07:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

A few things on Marleau. Nux, it's pretty hard to say he didn't benefit in playing with Thornton in his prime. But I would argue that today, based on skill, speed, age, etc, Kessel and Lupul would be as good if not better than any 2 players Marleau could play with in San Jose.

Secondly, Gipper, it may not be about winning the Cup with Marleau. It's about learning how to win. The Leafs have had a playoff team for the past two seasons and have completely tanked at least one-20 game stretch to take themselves out. They are not often getting beat by the opposition, they are beating themselves. So even if Marleau didn't bring the Cup to TO, he would lead to a culture of winning.

I see huge value for a Marleau or a player like Marleau to the Leafs. On and off the ice. It's not always about the player you get in return but what that player gives you. Do you think the Red Wings are at all upset that Lidstrom retired without them having an opportunity to get something in a trade??

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



but would you really give up the assets necessary to acquire Marleau, plus take up almost $14M in cap space over two years just to "learn how to win"? seems awfully steep to me.

and just how does Lidstrom compare to this scenario? you lost me on that one....
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  09:58:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, it's not $14 million. It's $6.9 in each of the next two.

Secondly, last time I checked winning was the only thing that matters in the NHL. So what is the cost of winning. Everything.

Finally, the comparison to Lidstrom was that he walked and Detroit got 'nothing' for him. It was to contrast your point about Marleau leaving in 2 years as a free agent. My point was Detroit didn't get any tangible player value when Lidstrom retired. However, they have an amazing culture of winning and he was the on ice/off ice leader of that group that gave them the culture. I am not saying that Marleau will lead the Leafs to winning but he will be a leader that can provide the culture.

So, Detroit got nothing for Lidstrom, but he gave them everything. There is value in that.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  12:46:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
first, to clarify, i meant $14M spread over 2 years. so yes, $6.9 in each of the next two. we agree on that.

here is my point about Marleau leaving as an FA: will it be worth the cost of the trade (and the heavy cap hit) just to see him leave 2 years later? and all he did for you was be "a leader that can provide the culture"?
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  12:51:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ask Carolina if it was worth the trade to bring in Rod Brind'amour or Anaheim if bringing in Chris Pronger was a good idea.

Winning is not cheap. I get that the tangiable return for Marleau might not be anything. However, are their any proven winners on the Leafs roster today?? Is there anyone that can lead a team to win??

I get that Marleau has not won the Cup but he has won on virtually ever other level he has played. Including a few gold medals. I don't think there is a player on the Leafs today that can say they have won at any meaningful level since juniors.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  13:45:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I don't think there is a player on the Leafs today that can say they have won at any meaningful level since juniors.



I believe Phil Kessel won a car a couple of years ago at the all-star game.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  14:26:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I don't think there is a player on the Leafs today that can say they have won at any meaningful level since juniors.



I believe Phil Kessel won a car a couple of years ago at the all-star game.



Now that is hilarious!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  15:59:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan....that's some funny sh*t! And kudos to you Leafs81 for seeing the humour in it as i know some Leafs fans would have taken that the wrong way!


Beans, I get where you're going with the comparisons, but i agree with what Gipper is saying. It's exactly the reason i said in an earlier post "only way Burke would consider imo would be if he was confident that Marleau would sign an extension as he's due up in a couple seasons". Also, i'm not sure the examples of Brind'Amour and Pronger are fair really. Consider the fact that Brind'Amour played 10 years in Carolina first of all. This is exactly what Gipper is saying his concern is, that Marleau won't. Secondly, Pronger imo was nothing more than the final piece of the puzzle which was pretty much handed to Anaheim on a platter. Keep in mind, this was an Anaheim team that made the Conference Final the year prior with guys like Scott Niedermayer and Teemu Selanne already on board. I guess what i'm saying, because i know you're gonna say "yeah, but they didn't win the big one till Pronger got there" is that while he was a huge piece of the puzzle in his talent and leadership, i don't credit him with being any sort of "teacher of winning" for a team that was already having success and had budding starts in Getzlaf and Perry.

I too think that the Leafs would have to give up too much to get Marleau UNLESS they could sign him for an additional 3 year term, thus having him for a 5 year period. They prob still don't win a cup by then, but they have a far better chance to do well 3-5 years from now than they do in the next 2!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  22:29:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pronger does teach winning hey? How many Cups did Selanne win with Neidermayer alone?

Can you name another player who led their team to the finals in 3 out of 5 seasons and playing on three different teams?

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  23:01:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Pronger does teach winning hey? How many Cups did Selanne win with Neidermayer alone?

Can you name another player who led their team to the finals in 3 out of 5 seasons and playing on three different teams?

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



See! I called it. Pretty much spot on what i said you'd say. Sometimes you're too predictable. I guess we'll once again have to agree to disagree. You think it's Pronger's "teaching to win" that got the Ducks over the hump. I think it's the fact that what he brought to the team in skill, size, etc on the ice was the missing piece of their puzzle. Maybe try going back to my point to begin with. I don't agree with your example when you stated "Ask Carolina if it was worth the trade to bring in Rod Brind'amour or Anaheim if bringing in Chris Pronger was a good idea.". I find it unfair in the argument that Gipper has brought forth. Of course Carolina would think it was worth it to bring in Brind'amour, however, like i already mentioned, he played there for a feakin' decade afterwards. Now, consider that and look again at Gipper's argument about selling the farm for Marleau for possibly only 2 seasons!!! Now, look at Anaheim. This is a team that already knew how to win. Unlike the Leafs example you used, the Ducks already had "winners" on their team and a team that had been deep in the playoffs already. If you wanna give the credit to Pronger for taking them to the promise land, please feel free to share with the rest of us where Mr. Pronger's "teachings" went in Philly and Edmonton? I guess he didn't quite teach those two teams quite enough???
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2012 :  23:12:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15


Can you name another player who led their team to the finals in 3 out of 5 seasons and playing on three different teams?




BTW, does Hossa's 3 in a row with Pittsburgh, Detroit and then Chicago in '08, '09 and '10 count? 3 in a row seems to trump even Pronger's 3 in 5, no? Oh, and they each won 1. Does this mean Hossa took 3 years to learn to be a "teacher of winning"?
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  05:27:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not going to disagree with the concept of "bringing a winning culture" that Beans is talking about . . . it does help, and it IS important. It's a big reason why Burke has stockpiled the Marlies with good player - many who may never reach the NHL - to instill a culture of winning into the farm team.

Is Marleau such a proven winner and leader that he'd automatically make everyone better on the team? Uh, no, but . . . he would definitely be an important piece in the dressing room at many different times.

As for Leaf "winners", or players that have been part of a strong winning tradition or culture . . .

Lupul - never made it to the Cup finals, but been a strong contributer in two deep playoff runs to the semis (9 goals in 16 games for Anaheim one year).

Kessel - gold medal with team USA for the under 18's in '05, and more recently a silver medal with team USA in'10 Olympics.

Dion Phaneuf - World Junior gold in 2005, silver in 2004. 2007 world championships gold in Moscow.

Nikolai Kulemin - World Championships: bronze in 2007, silver 2010, gold in 2012. World Junior Championships silver 2006. Under 18 World Championships gold in 2004. Was the Russian Super League MVP in 2007.

There are others, but . . . you get the picture. The Leafs have not made the playoffs in forever, so it's easy to forget that many of the players beforehand were used to winning, and excelling for their teams.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  05:41:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Touché on the Hossa point. Can't argue that. I guess you can bend the view any way you want on Pronger but it's hard to argue that he wins literally everywhere he goes. But we will have to agree to disagree. Already getting far too off topic.

To Slozo's point, hit the nail on the head. Lots of players have won at the junior level. Other than Kulemin being a 2nd tringer on WC teams and Lupul also being a 2 string in a Cup run, not much in the way of wins since Junior. I still don't think anyone one that Leaf team is a winning leader since they were teenagers.

My only point is that Marleau brings leadership and winning to the table and that is worth something.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  05:42:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anaheim was a lot closer to winning the cup when they made the trade for Pronger. adding him strengthened their chances to make that final push.
no doubt Marleau would strengthen the Leafs chances of winning more games, and possibly making the playoffs. but it isn't a "final push" move, and therefore IMO would not be worth the price to acquire him. not at his age, not when he's UFA in 2 years, and especially not when the Leafs are no where near being a cup contender.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  07:21:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

Anaheim was a lot closer to winning the cup when they made the trade for Pronger. adding him strengthened their chances to make that final push.
no doubt Marleau would strengthen the Leafs chances of winning more games, and possibly making the playoffs. but it isn't a "final push" move, and therefore IMO would not be worth the price to acquire him. not at his age, not when he's UFA in 2 years, and especially not when the Leafs are no where near being a cup contender.



This need for a team to be in a certain place to get a player you deem as the "final piece" is an argument I will never buy.

(the Blue Jays are going through this argument at the moment, as people rage on about getting a pitcher or two with all the injuries, and management playing the "patience" card)

Will Marleau be available in two years, or 4 years, when the Leafs need that "final piece? Nope, probably not.

The Leaf fans that didn't want to overspend for a Suter or Parise . . . when we are ready, will they be available? Nope.

And that's how it goes. You get the best players you can when they are available, otherwise, those best players are gone, and a player of that calibre/worth may not be around when you really want one. Especially in this free agent and trade climate . . . no one gives up talent easily, and big name, talented free agents like Parise are few and far between.

Which is why I say, if Marleau is available for even a slight overpayment . . . why the heck not? I'd grab him in a second! He would change the whole complexion of the Leafs team . . . top line, big bodied centre. Bozak moves down to third line centre. Suddenly, we have three talented and appropriately lined centres, instead of just one . . .

I would give up a Colborne and another decent prospect like that in a second for Marleau. Those kinds of players are just not available that often . . . and you have to grab them when they are.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  08:38:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if the price is right.....Slozo, the one you proposed I'd probably be ok with.....then i don't have an issue.
i just get nervous when trades like this are "on the rumour mill', because when it comes to the Leafs the precedent has been set. high prospects, high draft picks, young roster players.....all shipped out for one player who's on the verge of being past his prime, will only here for a short period, and essentially provides next to nothing for the team.

as long as we don't over pay then i'm fine with a deal to bring in Marleau.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  14:16:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think the Slozo offer would be enough but not much more would be needed to land a Marleau. IF (and it's a big if) he is available it will be SJ is rebuilding. That means they will drop the salary for picks and prospects. However, they will still likely need a roster player in the mix as well.

I would say prospect, 2nd round pick, and a roster player or 2 prospects and a pick would make the deal about right.

We are talking about a guy with 30 or more goals in 6 of the last 7 seasons that still has miles to wear off the tires. It won't be a robbery to get him.


With all that said and all the debate, I still don't think Marleau is even available.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2012 :  15:22:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't think the Slozo offer would be enough but not much more would be needed to land a Marleau. IF (and it's a big if) he is available it will be SJ is rebuilding. That means they will drop the salary for picks and prospects. However, they will still likely need a roster player in the mix as well.

I would say prospect, 2nd round pick, and a roster player or 2 prospects and a pick would make the deal about right.

We are talking about a guy with 30 or more goals in 6 of the last 7 seasons that still has miles to wear off the tires. It won't be a robbery to get him.


With all that said and all the debate, I still don't think Marleau is even available.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



Oh - I was just naming the top players in a deal for Marleau . . . I realise it would take more.
Say, Colborne, Purcell, and . . . ok, take some salary as well - Lombardi. Or make that prospect a nobody kid, and throw in Connolly instead of Lombardi.

Deal?

I think that would seal the deal, kids

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  09:52:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't think the Slozo offer would be enough but not much more would be needed to land a Marleau. IF (and it's a big if) he is available it will be SJ is rebuilding. That means they will drop the salary for picks and prospects. However, they will still likely need a roster player in the mix as well.

I would say prospect, 2nd round pick, and a roster player or 2 prospects and a pick would make the deal about right.

We are talking about a guy with 30 or more goals in 6 of the last 7 seasons that still has miles to wear off the tires. It won't be a robbery to get him.


With all that said and all the debate, I still don't think Marleau is even available.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



Not necessarily for rebuilding Beans - could be for "replacement". My guess would be for when they get Nash.

I am still anxiously awaiting that second shoe as a Leafs fan . . . beginning to wonder if it's ever going to happen.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  10:07:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
you're not the only one Slozo. funny thing though is that if that next shoe does drop before the start of the season, half of "Leafs Nation" will criticize Burke for making a dumb move and then further their claim to have him fired. the other half will claim our new acquisition the savior of the franchise and expect a 100+ point season and the league MVP!

and so the story continues....
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  12:10:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well gipper i would say thse people are the leafs "fans" that make the rest of leafs nation look dumb.

although most want the next coming of gretzky or crosby the simple truth is. it ain't happening.

i dont think anyone will be able to carry the leafs the way sundin did. and he is what all fans will masure not just every leaf that wears the C on their chest but every number 1 centre that the franchise tries to use.

most "fans" of the buds are unrealistic at best and give the knowledgeable fans a bad rap.

i would love to see a goalie next. bernier, louongo, anyone that can help these guys we have right now. thats the next shoe i want dropped.

speaking of wich i have hear a lot abou the sharks possible shopping annti niemi..... no clue about the legitamcy but if true adds another legit goalie to the mix and brings down lou's value a bit?

Edited by - mandree888 on 07/16/2012 12:33:14
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  14:04:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the latest rumore i have heard is now frattin and a 3rd for bernier.... thats seems kinda low no?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  14:54:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888
speaking of wich i have hear a lot abou the sharks possible shopping annti niemi..... no clue about the legitamcy but if true adds another legit goalie to the mix and brings down lou's value a bit?



where did you hear this rumour? Marleau, and now Niemi - I have heard nothing about either of these rumours, you would think if there was something to it it would be plastered all over TSN...

I have no idea why SJ would be shopping Niemi... unless they want to make room to get Luongo - Luongo and Joe Thornton are apparently very good friends, and I would bet Lu would waive to go to SJ. But honestly, Niemi is a very good goalie that is reasonably priced, why would they want to move him?
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  15:02:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
keep in mind nux it is a rumor i do not claim it is legit i was curious about that too why would they trade a proven goalie that has won a cup. i didn't understand. but figured i would post something and see if anyone else had heard anything.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  17:11:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

keep in mind nux it is a rumor i do not claim it is legit i was curious about that too why would they trade a proven goalie that has won a cup. i didn't understand. but figured i would post something and see if anyone else had heard anything.



Actually mandree, I was serious - where exactly did you read this rumour? Was it on a website somewhere, or an online newspaper - I'm quite curious as to where these rumours appear, as anything that was reported in a newspaper or online news site would probably be picked up by something like TSN. If SJ were honestly shopping Niemi or Marleau, that would be pretty big news.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  17:21:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't heard anything to do with SJ shopping Niemi but it wouldn't surprise me a whole lot really. Personally i think he's over rated because of the cup win AND, SJ is very hign on Thomas Greiss from everything i've heard/read. The Sharks would obviously have to get a goalie back in any deal as they'd need a backup if they moved forward with Greiss, though i don't have a clue who their 3rd stringer is and if he's anywhere near capable of being a backup right now at the NHL level???

The Bernier offer seems low to me. I know, i know, he's totally unproven, blah, blah, blah.....but his potential is still worth more than that, or should i say, a team will likely offer much more than that for his potential.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2012 :  19:27:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I haven't heard anything to do with SJ shopping Niemi but it wouldn't surprise me a whole lot really. Personally i think he's over rated because of the cup win AND, SJ is very hign on Thomas Greiss from everything i've heard/read.



They may be high on Greiss, but Niemi overrated? He might not have been the best goalie to win a cup, but he's currently winning 35 games a season with very good numbers (around 2.4 GAA and .917 SV%), for a seemingly bargain price of 3.8M a season, for only 3 more years. Further, there is no need to make a decision on Greiss now, as he's under contract for another year at 500K.

Its not like Luongo, where the numbers are similar but there is a 10 year contract and a bunch of baggage attached to it, nor has Greiss outplayed Niemi by any stretch. SJ would be nuts to make that deal right now - unless they're getting something bigger back in return.

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/17/2012 19:27:37
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