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Guest2556
( )

Posted - 07/06/2012 :  16:48:15  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
If the ducks trade Bobby Ryan where will he be headed?

Offer up what you think would be equal trade value.

Choices:

Pittsburgh
Ottawa
Detroit
Toronto
Philadelphia
Chicago
Buffalo
Colorado
San Jose
New York

(Anonymous Vote)

Guest2556
( )

Posted - 07/06/2012 :  16:53:14  Reply with Quote
I think Philly goes after bobby Ryan and they will have to give up couturier and at least one more roster player or good prospect
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2012 :  17:09:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great poll question guest, though i'd say you should always include an "other" option in case someone's thinking of a destination not listed here?

I'm not sure where i'd pick as you could really argue for most of them! Philly missed out so far on everything this offseason so they may push hard for some extra help. Detroit must still be stinging from not getting either of the top 2 guys! Toronto would love this guy but not sure they have what it would take to get him? Maybe though, IIRC Burke drafted him, no? He may find a way to get it done. Pitt was in on the Parise sweepstakes so you can't rule them out at least in the area of wanting another star forward. The NYR have long been after Nash, maybe they decide to go the younger and possibly cheaper route and take Ryan? Same with Ottawa, weren't they rumoured to be hoping to convince Nash to add them to his list of desired teams? Chicago i hadn't even considered, but there continues to be rumours of Kane moving on and he'd likely have to be part of a deal for Ryan one would think?

See what i mean, you could argue for almost every team on this list, though i haven't really given teams like SJ (rival), Buf or Col much thought as a destination for him?

If i was forced to select, i'd have to go with Detroit. They desperately need to improve a little bit and getting younger would help as well. Datsyuk and Z won't be around forever, they've already lost Lidstrom and they weren't able to land either of the two big fish in Suter and Parise. The economy in Detroit is not in good shape and to continue to draw fans and sell out, they simply must stay competetive. This is one city that would surely struggle if they chose to rebuild! They need to keep uncovering these gems in the drafts and retool before it's too late!

However, i did read an interesting thought today about the Wings possibly choosing now to save their money for next year's UFA crop where we may see a very nice group of guys available including Weber, Iginla, Getzlaf AND Perry. Surely their teams will do their best to sign these guys, but i'd be willing to bet at least 1 will be moving on, and mabye more!

Edited by - Alex116 on 07/06/2012 17:15:59
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4583 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  07:53:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with Alex wholeheartedly . . . not sure who is going to get him, and I think it comes down to who will actually be the most determined GM, not who is the best fit, or who has the right pieces to offer.

So with that in mind, I think it's between Detroit, Philly and Toronto. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

I'll say Philly, but it's a total toss up in my mind.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  09:46:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I voted for New York but not the Rangers like many would expect. I think the Islanders

They just lost Parenteau, if they want to stop rebuilding at some point they need a winger to play with Tavares (other then Moulson), they have plenty of prospects, cap space and they are young. If they want to be upcoming, they need to trade away some prospects, depth players, draft picks to surround Tavares better. Not saying they should unload, but a few prospects for a player of Bobby Ryan's calliber wouldn't hurt the organisation.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  10:35:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

I voted for New York but not the Rangers like many would expect. I think the Islanders

They just lost Parenteau, if they want to stop rebuilding at some point they need a winger to play with Tavares (other then Moulson), they have plenty of prospects, cap space and they are young. If they want to be upcoming, they need to trade away some prospects, depth players, draft picks to surround Tavares better. Not saying they should unload, but a few prospects for a player of Bobby Ryan's calliber wouldn't hurt the organisation.



Great point Leafs81! They've got Johnny T locked up at a very reasonable 5.5 per year cap hit for a number of years and owe it to him for his commitment to go out and get some supporting pieces to be a true playoff team!
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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  15:50:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the ducks have mismanaged this situation big time.
First of all trading bobby Ryan is an awful idea. He is a perennial 30 goal scorer and only 25 years old, he is just hitting his prime. Ryan has heard his name in trade rumors and taken it to heart. Now he not only expects but is basically demanding a trade saying Philly would be ideal. All in all I can't see the ducks getting equal value in a player or package comig back for a Player unhappy with management. If Philly doesn't trade for Ryan I'm hoping the avs will give it a shot.

66 is > than 99

Edited by - @valanche on 07/07/2012 18:33:34
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2012 :  18:50:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@valanche, i'm not so sure. As far as i know, Ryan doesn't have a NTC and therefore there are likely to be multiple teams looking to aquire him, therefore the return should be very good and possibly someone may overpay for his services! Just because Bobby Ryan wants to go to Philly doesn't mean that's the only place they can trade him. Far from it actually.

This is very different from the Luongo scenario where Roberto has an option of waiving his NTC for teams he would be willing to move to.

Unless Ryan has a NTC that i'm unaware of, i see Anaheim getting a good return for him.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2012 :  09:33:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan does not have a NTC or NMC, so ANA can trade him anywhere. While the initial list of teams is a reasonable starting point, I don't see how every team in the NHL would not be interested in a 6'2/215 lb scoring winger that is good for at least 30 goals/60 points every year, who is only 26 years old and signed for a pretty reasonable 5.1M cap hit for the next 3 seasons. I don't think his relationship with management will factor into anything or diminish his value in any way.

ANA probably has a preference to trade him to the east, so he doesn't come back and bite their team in the a$$, so I see any eastern team as a good landing spot for him. I'd like to think VAN has a chance of landing him, we'll see.

As for trade value, I don't know. I have to think ANA would be looking for 2 roster players (1 very solid) + a prospect in return, and if everyone is in on it, someone will give them at least that. From a VAN perspective, something like Booth or Burrows/Bieksa/top prospect or next year's first rounder (which is unlikely to happen). Maybe even Kesler+next year's first rounder.

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/08/2012 09:34:34
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2012 :  11:52:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kesler and a 1st rounder. Wow that seems like a lot! Kesler is one of the best second line center in the NHL. although he did have a really ordinary season last year.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2012 :  14:40:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah, maybe that is a bit rich. Perhaps Ryan for Kesler straight up would be more like it. I threw in the pick to sweeten the pot, given that he's seems to be getting injury prone (on his second 6-month injury this offseason), and there have been rumours around town that he's at odds with the team a bit...

That being said though, I think he is the calibre of player that it might take to get Ryan.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2012 :  19:05:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting....While i don't think Vancouver will be in the running, i think it would actually take more than just Kesler. Their salaries are similar, their play is not and a Selke winner and darn good 2nd line center just seems to be worth less than a 30 goal big bodied winger for some reason? I don't know why, maybe it's because some team will prob overpay for Ryan? Hard to compare unless Kesler were up for grabs as well???

Either way, i don't think Vancouver wants to trade their 2nd line C for a winger considering there's already concern as to who will fill in for Kesler till he's back? Now, if there was another deal, or perhaps a 3-way deal whereby the Canucks landed another C, then maybe, but these 3-ways are not very common nowadays.

I have to say, although it's often the case, i hate the "trade him to the other conference" crap. To me, you get the best return you possibly can an move on. I don't care if it means it's your biggest rival, just get the best you possibly can!!!

So how about this for sh*** and giggles....

To Anaheim: Ryan Kesler & Col's 3rd rounder in 2013
To Colorado: Bobby Ryan
To Vancouver: Paul Stastny and Col's 2nd rounder in 2013

This is an "i'm bored on this lovely hot Sunday night in Vancouver" far fetched trade proposal, so don't go freakin' out.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  07:12:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Interesting....While i don't think Vancouver will be in the running, i think it would actually take more than just Kesler. Their salaries are similar, their play is not and a Selke winner and darn good 2nd line center just seems to be worth less than a 30 goal big bodied winger for some reason? I don't know why, maybe it's because some team will prob overpay for Ryan? Hard to compare unless Kesler were up for grabs as well???

Either way, i don't think Vancouver wants to trade their 2nd line C for a winger considering there's already concern as to who will fill in for Kesler till he's back? Now, if there was another deal, or perhaps a 3-way deal whereby the Canucks landed another C, then maybe, but these 3-ways are not very common nowadays.

I have to say, although it's often the case, i hate the "trade him to the other conference" crap. To me, you get the best return you possibly can an move on. I don't care if it means it's your biggest rival, just get the best you possibly can!!!

So how about this for sh*** and giggles....

To Anaheim: Ryan Kesler & Col's 3rd rounder in 2013
To Colorado: Bobby Ryan
To Vancouver: Paul Stastny and Col's 2nd rounder in 2013

This is an "i'm bored on this lovely hot Sunday night in Vancouver" far fetched trade proposal, so don't go freakin' out.



Oh I don't know, I do think VAN would like to get Ryan - they need scoring wingers as well. Trouble is they won't want to cough up the return, so I don't see it happening. I'm not sure what ANA needs.

Your trade is interesting, but I still don't think that COL is interested in moving Stastny right now.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  07:44:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did Kesler lost that much value among Canucks fans? He scored 41 goals two season ago. I think Kesler's value would be higher then Stastny. Kesler is still fairly young too at 27 years old.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5791 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  09:15:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Did Kesler lost that much value among Canucks fans? He scored 41 goals two season ago. I think Kesler's value would be higher then Stastny. Kesler is still fairly young too at 27 years old.



Not really L81, just keep hearing rumours that he may not be happy here and with his recent injuries and all, he may need a fresh start? I get the feeling management wasn't happy with him last season for 2 big reasons. One, he came back early from injury, and while the team doctors have something to say in that regard, it's generally down to the player as to when he feels he's 100%. Second, he took a step backwards in his one ice maturity level. Not sure that's the best description of what i mean, but he went back a bit on his prior improvements in regards to whining at refs, diving/embelishing, etc. .

Anyway, back to the trade, i actually wanted to have the Col pick to the Canucks be a #1 but didn't want to come off as too biased towards Kes's value.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3582 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2012 :  09:54:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

Did Kesler lost that much value among Canucks fans? He scored 41 goals two season ago. I think Kesler's value would be higher then Stastny. Kesler is still fairly young too at 27 years old.



no, there is no loss of love for Kesler with VAN fans - he is very good at what he does, and is consistently one of the best players on the team on any given night. He is widely regarded as one of the top defensive forwards in the game, and arguably the best second line centre in the NHL. We know he's a relative bargain at 5M a year and like him on the team. After a stellar 10/11 where he both produced offensively and curtailed his on-ice chatter/distractions, expectations were high.

However, last year saw him return to more of the yappy agitator role that makes him a hated man elsewhere in the league as his production slipped due to the hip injury suffered during the cup run. There have been rumblings in the local press that he might be a "cancer in the dressing room", which is never good, and speculation that if VAN wanted to change its image with the NHL, getting rid of Kesler (for value in return of course) might be a good thing to do. He is also becoming quite injury prone - and always at the exact wrong time. This is the second year in a row where he's injured himself in the tail end of the season and will require 6 months to recover - big injuries, and too many of them take a toll on players.

I think if VAN were going to get rid of him they would have done it already - he just had a NMC kick into his contract on July 1 for the last 4 years of the deal, so it just became significantly harder to move him.

I think Kesler and Stastny would be on reasonably equal footing - both centres play a similar style game and are similar in terms of production ability - although Stastny costs 2.5M more than Kesler.

To get things back on track with Ryan, the only reason I brought up Kesler was to illustrate the calibre of player (in VAN terms) that I think ANA would reasonably expect in return for someone like Bobby Ryan.
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