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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  11:55:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Thought i heard Clarkson had signed in NJ (rumour) but now it's being reported he's signed in Leafland???

Oops, my bad. Getting Clarkson and CLowe mixed up.



Clarkson signed for 7 years at a cap hit of $5.25.

Here's a question for Leaf fans.

When Horcoff was signed in Edmonton for a cap him of $5.5 million the salary cap was about the same as it will be next year. Horcoff was known to be a terrible contract for a 2nd line centre.

Take a look at Clarkson's numbers today and Horcoff's before he signed his deal and help me understand the difference? I personally think that Leafs fans will think this is a terrible contract in about 2 years.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  12:09:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Thought i heard Clarkson had signed in NJ (rumour) but now it's being reported he's signed in Leafland???

Oops, my bad. Getting Clarkson and CLowe mixed up.



Clarkson signed for 7 years at a cap hit of $5.25.

Here's a question for Leaf fans.

When Horcoff was signed in Edmonton for a cap him of $5.5 million the salary cap was about the same as it will be next year. Horcoff was known to be a terrible contract for a 2nd line centre.

Take a look at Clarkson's numbers today and Horcoff's before he signed his deal and help me understand the difference? I personally think that Leafs fans will think this is a terrible contract in about 2 years.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Clarkson is bigger than Grabo and cheaper, so this seems like a better fit (if you cut them up into steaks, Clarkson makes more steaks for less). But he is a winger with less than .5 ppg career wise, so $5.25 for 7 years seems very steep. Heard Bolland and him are familiar to each other and come from the same town, so maybe Toronto is banking on Clarkson's stats to climb beyong the 24 last year and his career average (1, 30 goal year in 2011/12). I didn't understand why he was so sought after, but maybe he will answer those questions this year with the leafs.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  12:21:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Clarkson should benefit playing on a line with Kadri and Lupul. i like the signing, but not the length. 7 years is a long time for a guy who's 29. but i guess that's what you need to pony up in order to be competitive in the UFA market.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
379 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  12:38:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bobby Ryan to Ott!!!!! huge for the Sens
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  12:56:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans I agree. Too long and too much money for Clarkson. You're saying that you think in two years this will be considered a bad contract. I'm saying right now that its not a good contract and it will bite the organisation in the rear end.

Love Clarkson and his play, physical play and a player that can make a difference. He will probably live up to his contract for the next 2 or 3 seasons. After that issssshhhhhhhhh.

Glad they got Bozak, mainly because they ran out of options. But he was Toronto's best option after Lecavalier and BriŤre.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  14:07:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ryan to Ottawa is huge. Decent return and I think Ryan will benefit from the change of scenery. I really like what Ottawa has done today.

To Clarkson, I take nothing away from the player he is and role he fills with the Leafs. I just think that contract is about $1.5 million/year heavy and about 3 yrs too long.

Consider Riberio signed for $5.5 for a shorter term and look at his production in the past 4-5 seasons. I get that Clarkson is 4 yrs younger and a more physical player but none the less.

$5.25 million for a 2nd line guy with the cap going down?? Surprising. Yet, if you got the money to spend you might as well spend it.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2013 :  15:10:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have calmed down from my initial reaction to Alfredson moving on and the cost of Bobby Ryans aquisition. I have to admit, Bobby Ryan is an excellent player with great scoring skills. The fact his stats come from splitting time between the top 2 lines, not always with Getzlaf and Perry, means he isn't 100% owing of his offensive #'s to his linemates, which I was initially worried about. I think I would have rathered seen Conacher or Pageau go in his place, rather than Silfverberg, because he seemed like the most top 6 NHL ready prospect of the forward depth Ottawa is enjoying at the moment. Coupled with the fact Alfredson is moving on had me seeing red. Can't wait to see him lace it up on the wing with Spezza and one of the other depth wingers Ottawa has. Good luck to Silfverberg. Anaheim got themselves a great player and prospects

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/05/2013 15:14:20
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  09:01:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So who does everyone think improved the most.

Dallas with bringing in depth at center with Horcoff, Seguin and Peverly while bringing in another good goalie in Dan Ellis.

Boston for landing the best scoring winger available thru free agency in Iginla and trading for another scoring winger in Eriksson with a great 2way game.

Philly for signing the best goaltender available at a steal in Emery and landing the Lecavalier sweepstakes.

Edmonton for finally dealing with Horcoffs contract with (surprise, surprise a decent return without having to take on salary) while shoring up defensively with Ference, prospects and adding to goalie depth with Lebarberra who I think is an excellent backup.

Detroit for landing Alfredson and Weiss.

New Jersey for landing Schneider on the draft floor, Clowe, Olesz and Ryder thru free agency.

Or is it a surprise team winning like NYI, who have resigned Nabokov and solidly added to the team with signings like Regin and Bouchard, Harmonic while dealing with Dipietro's elephant of a contract.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  09:32:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

So who does everyone think improved the most.

Dallas with bringing in depth at center with Horcoff, Seguin and Peverly while bringing in another good goalie in Dan Ellis.

Boston for landing the best scoring winger available thru free agency in Iginla and trading for another scoring winger in Eriksson with a great 2way game.

Philly for signing the best goaltender available at a steal in Emery and landing the Lecavalier sweepstakes.

Edmonton for finally dealing with Horcoffs contract with (surprise, surprise a decent return without having to take on salary) while shoring up defensively with Ference, prospects and adding to goalie depth with Lebarberra who I think is an excellent backup.

Detroit for landing Alfredson and Weiss.

New Jersey for landing Schneider on the draft floor, Clowe, Olesz and Ryder thru free agency.

Or is it a surprise team winning like NYI, who have resigned Nabokov and solidly added to the team with signings like Regin and Bouchard, Harmonic while dealing with Dipietro's elephant of a contract.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



I love how you failed to mention the Leafs . . . classic.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  09:41:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15



Can anyone tell me something about Boyd Gordon???




I originally thought this comment funny until I came across a report on the bleacher report about Boyd Gordon.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1691386-nhl-power-rankings-2013-where-every-team-stands-at-the-start-of-free-agency#/articles/1695334-nhl-free-agency-2013-the-most-underrated-signings/page/5

So for those who don't go on the read the article, he is a depth bottom 6 forward with grit. That pretty much sums up what Edmonton is lacking. Add to the fact he has a faceoff winning % of 57% and this pretty much makes up for the loss of Horcoff and his faceoff prowess.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  09:49:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

So who does everyone think improved the most.

Dallas with bringing in depth at center with Horcoff, Seguin and Peverly while bringing in another good goalie in Dan Ellis.

Boston for landing the best scoring winger available thru free agency in Iginla and trading for another scoring winger in Eriksson with a great 2way game.

Philly for signing the best goaltender available at a steal in Emery and landing the Lecavalier sweepstakes.

Edmonton for finally dealing with Horcoffs contract with (surprise, surprise a decent return without having to take on salary) while shoring up defensively with Ference, prospects and adding to goalie depth with Lebarberra who I think is an excellent backup.

Detroit for landing Alfredson and Weiss.

New Jersey for landing Schneider on the draft floor, Clowe, Olesz and Ryder thru free agency.

Or is it a surprise team winning like NYI, who have resigned Nabokov and solidly added to the team with signings like Regin and Bouchard, Harmonic while dealing with Dipietro's elephant of a contract.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



I love how you failed to mention the Leafs . . . classic.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



And the Leafs added Clarkson, Bolland, Bernier lost Grabo Komisarik and Schrivens, signed Bozak. I just didn't see major improvement like I did with the other teams. I think Bernier will do well but its still an unknown whether he is an upgrade on Reimer, so it ended up being Bolland, Clarkson for Grabo. Bolland and Clarkson ads size, but I dont see big gains here like other teams.

You will notice I didn't add the Senators to the list even though Bobby Ryan was a major pickup and MacArthur was also added. The loss of Alfredson and Silfverberg don't make this a win/win scenerio.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/06/2013 09:59:28
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  10:44:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HEY! What about the Canucks? They traded away a potential all star goalie for a draft pick, pissed off their #2 by letting him know he's #1 again, picked up a high draft pick who likely won't see the NHL for a couple of years thereby not helping them while their "window" is still slightly open, signed Brad Richards Richardson to be the next world beater AND most importantly, DIDN'T re-sign Mason Raymond.

Well, I like what Det did, I like what Ottawa did and I like what Dallas did. I do think the Leafs improved, but I also think that the Clarkson signing could come back to haunt them down the road. So, after saying all that, I have to give the nod to the Canucks, simply for NOT re-signing Raymond!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2013 :  21:19:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Maybe we should stop talking about the insignificant deals and talk about the blockbuster moves happening in Edmonton. This one is really bold!!


Can anyone tell me something about Boyd Gordon???







I considered the Gordon signing an overpayment, and it prob is a bit, but like most, I figured it was more or less an insignificant signing. Well, seems there's more to Boyd Gordon than most of us prob realize!

Puck Daddy (as part of his "5 most underrated signings" from this past FA day frenzy!.......

Boyd Gordon, Edmonton Oilers

Gordon has been one of the most underrated defensive forwards in the NHL for the last two seasons with the Phoenix Coyotes. Heís aces on faceoffs Ė 57.3 percent last season. He blocks shots, kills penalties, can take and deliver a hit. Heís never going to win the Selke, because they donít give it to guys like him, but heís deserved to be in the conversation the last two seasons. His $9 million over three years is a little high, but itís Edmonton, so they have to overpay. A great pickup for the Oilers and the kind of foundational grunt teams need to win.


Beans, this might be better for the Oilers than it originally looked and the writer makes a good point about having to overpay still to get guys to Edmonton. As they improve, this may change, but until then, looks like they simply have to offer a few more dollars than maybe what others offer?
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  02:57:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua, you dont think the leafs improved by dropping all that dead weight you listed .........and brought in 2 Gary Roberts type players in Clarkson and Bolland.......plus a goalie who has tremendous upside....and re-signed Bozak who was a UFA by the way.

Do you know who was the # 1 most sought after UFA this season ??.... all hockey analyst i listened to all agreed that David Ckarkson was the # 1 rated UFA available this year....no arguements.......the leafs landed him but as you say not much improvement for the leafs..........never mind regular season stats by these type of players, they are big - time playoff performers.......leafs have kessel, kadri, Lupul, to put the bulk of the numbers up.....

Sure Dallas got Seguin.......but they lost Eriks......improvement ??

Boston....got Iglina......but lost Horton ...improvement ??.......Boston got Eriks.......but lost Seguin...improvement ??......Boston lost Peverly.....improvement ??......Boston lost A. Ference....improvement ??.....Boston has stepped backwards my friend......not by getting Erikss.....but overall.

Yoy think Philly has improved more than the leafs ?...lmao....would u rather have Emery or Bernier ??......So i guess you think that 1 over the hill Lecav......is better than Clarkson....Bolland and the re-signing of Bozak combined ??...oh my god Joshua

Edmonton did excellent.....pretty close to what the leafs accomplished....leafs just ahead though.

New Jersey did very well for themselves. Got a number 1 goalie....picked up 2 good ole newfie boys but lost the # 1 sought after UFA this season to Toronto.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  06:24:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also don't thing the Leafs did very well in this off season so far. I get that's Clarkson was one of the most sought after UFA but to say he was the most sought is a joke guys like Lecavalier, Horton, Riberio, Briere, Weiss, and Clowe were available. I posted a question to Leaf fans regarding a comparison of Clarkson to Horcoff and the only replies were people agreeing with me.

I don't think the Leafs have improved substantially and may have created a goalie issue by bringing in Bernier and going with him and Reimer, I like Bolland a lot and I also like Clarkson. He's just to worth the money or the term he got.

Sorry Leaf fans, they didn't improve that much and I don't think they did enough to keep pace with either Montreal or Toronto in their division. Boston added 2-30 goal scorers to replace one 30 goal scorer and a guy they weren't using in the top 6. Montreal added a speedy winger with something left in the tank and there are strong rumours that Jagr is going there as well. The Leafs added 2-2/3 line players and a goalie controversy.

Nope, sorry Leaf fans. They didn't do that great.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  09:18:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I also don't thing the Leafs did very well in this off season so far. I get that's Clarkson was one of the most sought after UFA but to say he was the most sought is a joke guys like Lecavalier, Horton, Riberio, Briere, Weiss, and Clowe were available. I posted a question to Leaf fans regarding a comparison of Clarkson to Horcoff and the only replies were people agreeing with me.

I don't think the Leafs have improved substantially and may have created a goalie issue by bringing in Bernier and going with him and Reimer, I like Bolland a lot and I also like Clarkson. He's just to worth the money or the term he got.

Sorry Leaf fans, they didn't improve that much and I don't think they did enough to keep pace with either Montreal or Toronto in their division. Boston added 2-30 goal scorers to replace one 30 goal scorer and a guy they weren't using in the top 6. Montreal added a speedy winger with something left in the tank and there are strong rumours that Jagr is going there as well. The Leafs added 2-2/3 line players and a goalie controversy.

Nope, sorry Leaf fans. They didn't do that great.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Toronto did a side step production wise, by losing Grabo and MacArthur but adding Clarkson and Bolland. They did a huge leap upward in grit and toughness and playoff experience. Bolland two Stanley Cups, and Clarkson one stanley cup final. I didn't like going into a full 82 games season with Reimer and Scrivens. I like Bernier because it adds a competition and an insurance that one of the two young goalies will pan out.

I agree with Clarkson's contract though, too expensive and really too long. But for this year, it improves the team.

As for Boston, they didn't just lost Seguin. They lost Horton, a great player that was dominating with Krejci and Lucic. The three big guys together were dominant because of their cycling game, their strength and their skill. Horton was a big part of that line.

They lost Ference and Peverley that were both much needed depth players, playing big minutes and contributing at key times. They lost Khudobin that was a solid backup, giving much needed rest to Rask when needed and still giving Boston a chance to win every night.

I like what Nashville did by adding Hendriks, Cullen, Nystrom and Stalberg, and also drafting Seth Jones.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  09:20:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And also Seguin was in the top six until Jagr got in town. He was playing on the wing with Bergeron and Marchand for much of the season and for all the season prior to that when he scored 67 points. just sayin'
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  10:53:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As far as Clarkson goes, I too hope the Leafs land him. Why? Because I think whoever does, is gonna overpay.



Looks like I got my wish!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2013 :  12:13:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

would u rather have Emery or Bernier ??



You are kidding right?

Emery - who has played over 200 games and has a very respectable 2.63/.908 over that time, has been a starting goalie for at least one season, who has gone to a cup final before, and who was signed for 1.15M.

vs Bernier - who has played 60 games as a backup for one of the best defensive teams in the NHL, and has never proven himself as a starting goalie, and costs nearly 3M a year.

I know which one I'd prefer on my team, at this point in time...
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  04:20:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan, i think every1 realizes that the only reason that Bernier never got the starting role in LA is because of Quick. Bernier is very young and i certainly wouldn`t label him a career backup type goalie ( not that u did )......he has his chance, lets see what happens.

Here are some things to conside in comparing the 2.......

.............................Bernier..........................................Emery
career............... 2.36 / .912....................................2.63 / .908
last season......1.88 / .922 ...................................1.94 / .922
drafted.............. 1st rd ( 11 th )..............................4th rd ( 99 th )
age................... 24 yrs old...................................... 30 yrs old

Of course Emerys numbers are over a longer period and based on more games but Bernier holds his own here. Nuxfan, the leafs are still a young team and i personally would take Bernier who is 6 years younger and see what happens.....as for costing just under than 3 million, i dont think thats a big issue.

Beans....as a leaf fan i can`t comment too much on Horcoff`s contract compared to Clarksons...as to a production factor. Not too familar with Horcoff, also only see Clarkson when they play NJ...boy he can play though, reminds me of a young Gary Roberts.......with regard to the length of his contract, ( with the new buyout option )...who cares ??...if he disappoints, buy him out, leafs have plenty of $$$$$.....you know teams have to sweeten the pot in order to attract UFA`s.....hockey insiders are saying that the Oilers offered Clarkson more $$$ than Toronto.

Beans, the Bruins lost more than just Hortons 30 goals. I`m sure Seguin would have scored maybe 20 with the B`s all season ...would he ??,,,what about R. Pev ? he must be good for 10 or 15 is he ?........you could agrue the B`s gave up 60 goals for 60 goals......then again, Iglina is 36 years old, is he still going to be a 30 goal scorer ??.......Besides the loss of Seguin and Horton, which is huge.......i thought R. Pev and A. Ference were excellent for the B`s in that Toronto series and throughout.......thats 4 very key Bruin players gone...which equates to 20 % of what was a very sucessful line-up

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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  06:21:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As far as Clarkson goes, I too hope the Leafs land him. Why? Because I think whoever does, is gonna overpay.



Looks like I got my wish!



As if it was a bold prediction to say that a sought after free agent was going to be overpaid . . . jeesh!

Everyone with half a brain knows that 90% of all free agents get overpaid. And if the Leafs hadn't been chosen by Clarkson, he might have signed with the Oilers for MORE, in fact . . . reportedly he was offered more by a couple of teams at least, and from my sources Clarkson was wooed heavily by the Oil.

I know Beans has sour grapes, but facts are facts - just because a free agent gets overpaid, or just because a player might be making more than eh should, doesn't make him any less valuable. For the Leafs, I argue that all the time for Phaneuf . . . overpaid, sure; but a very good, very valuable player.

There was a very good reason Clarkson was sought after. I certainly hope he does well in Toronto, and I think even with the added pressure and "hometown boy" status . . . I think he'll do well. Being potentially put together with two highly skilled players like Lupul and Kadri instantly makes him a great chance to have a career year, in fact, considering who he was playing with in New Jersey (usually third line).

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  06:32:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I also don't thing the Leafs did very well in this off season so far. I get that's Clarkson was one of the most sought after UFA but to say he was the most sought is a joke guys like Lecavalier, Horton, Riberio, Briere, Weiss, and Clowe were available. I posted a question to Leaf fans regarding a comparison of Clarkson to Horcoff and the only replies were people agreeing with me.

I don't think the Leafs have improved substantially and may have created a goalie issue by bringing in Bernier and going with him and Reimer, I like Bolland a lot and I also like Clarkson. He's just to worth the money or the term he got.

Sorry Leaf fans, they didn't improve that much and I don't think they did enough to keep pace with either Montreal or Toronto in their division. Boston added 2-30 goal scorers to replace one 30 goal scorer and a guy they weren't using in the top 6. Montreal added a speedy winger with something left in the tank and there are strong rumours that Jagr is going there as well. The Leafs added 2-2/3 line players and a goalie controversy.

Nope, sorry Leaf fans. They didn't do that great.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Leafs would have taken Lecavalier, yes, but it wasn't to be. Clarkson was the only high end player of his kind (physical agitator / drives hard at the net / garbage goals kind of guy) out on the market, so yes, he was highly sought after. Your Oil pushed hard for him, in fact, and probably offered a much higher price.

So, here's a summary of the major Leaf movements so far, in relation to last year:
Scrivens out - Bernier in
MacArthur out - Clarkson in
Grabovski out - Bolland in

Knowing that even for the forwards, it was defence that was the weak point, and not offense . . . how did we not improve?

With the same / similar line combos as last year (when we finished 6th), we substituted an ill-suited Grabovski on the third line with someone who brings so much more to the table there, defensively and physically; Clarkson is a big improvement over MacArthur; Bernier is a massive upgrade over Scrivens. And Reimer has already shown, under Wilson ("goalie-killer") that he has the mental strength and temerity to endure anything . . . and last year not even starting, Scrivens started then, actually.

So how is that not an improvement . . . let's try and use some logic, shall we?

That's not even counting stuff like . . . Kadri STARTING with Lupul; Gardiner sure to have a bounce back year, starting healthy; Komisarek gone.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  09:26:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Leafs fans, nobody isn't saying they didn't do well and crapping on the players they did receive. What people are saying is although there were improvements and some sought after free agents that Toronto landed, some were considered overpayments. I still think Grabo is gonna do well elsewhere and make the Leafs wish they hadn't bought him out. Bernier has great numbers, but he is still an unknown, whereas Emery was a known quantity, having been a #1 in more than 1 situation, signed at almost a 3rd of Bernier's contract value.

Boston landing Erikkson for a lower cap hit than Seguin is an improvement, replacing Iginla for Horton is a deal you do everyday of the week. The loss of Ference/Peverly and the backup goalie is tough, so if you want to cross Boston off the list of improving teams great, but that might not be a unamimous decision here.

The parts received at a lower cap hit and the more complete game Eriksson brings, as well as the true sniper status of Iginla would make most team gush. Iginla was the most sought after free agent not Clarkson, if not Lecavalier, if not Emery. So if you want to argue the Leafs are the most improved, great, and I am happy for the leafs. I just think other teams improved more.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  09:55:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As far as Clarkson goes, I too hope the Leafs land him. Why? Because I think whoever does, is gonna overpay.



Looks like I got my wish!



As if it was a bold prediction to say that a sought after free agent was going to be overpaid . . . jeesh!




Jeesh! Slozo, i thought you'd be able to comprehend my post better than that. I wasn't patting myself on the back for predicting someone would overpay for Clarkson, rather pointing out that i "got my wish" that it was the Leafs! I didn't see anywhere there where i said "SEE! I told you he'd be overpaid!!!!". I obviously have "half a brain" is suppose?

BTW, where'd you get this info that Clarkson spent most of this past season playing on the 3rd line in NJ? I'm not telling you you're wrong, but i'm guessing you are by a long shot.

Edited by - Alex116 on 07/08/2013 09:57:55
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  10:00:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Beans....as a leaf fan i can`t comment too much on Horcoff`s contract compared to Clarksons...as to a production factor. Not too familar with Horcoff, also only see Clarkson when they play NJ...boy he can play though, reminds me of a young Gary Roberts.......with regard to the length of his contract, ( with the new buyout option )...who cares ??...if he disappoints, buy him out, leafs have plenty of $$$$$.....you know teams have to sweeten the pot in order to attract UFA`s.....hockey insiders are saying that the Oilers offered Clarkson more $$$ than Toronto.




Duke, you do realize that each team only gets two compliance buyouts to use either this summer (time to use is now gone) or next. So, if Clarkson sh!ts the bed this season, do they buy him out next year after just one year???
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  11:09:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As far as Clarkson goes, I too hope the Leafs land him. Why? Because I think whoever does, is gonna overpay.



Looks like I got my wish!



As if it was a bold prediction to say that a sought after free agent was going to be overpaid . . . jeesh!




Jeesh! Slozo, i thought you'd be able to comprehend my post better than that. I wasn't patting myself on the back for predicting someone would overpay for Clarkson, rather pointing out that i "got my wish" that it was the Leafs! I didn't see anywhere there where i said "SEE! I told you he'd be overpaid!!!!". I obviously have "half a brain" is suppose?

BTW, where'd you get this info that Clarkson spent most of this past season playing on the 3rd line in NJ? I'm not telling you you're wrong, but i'm guessing you are by a long shot.



My comments were mostly directed at the infamous Beans, and yes, he DID say that the Leafs didn't really improve. And yes, I do find that a totally ridiculous statement.

My info on Clarkson 2years ago mostly playing on the third line (his big year) was garnered from real Devils fans on another site . . . I do my research for hockey pooling early and often.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  11:27:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Leafs fans, nobody isn't saying they didn't do well and crapping on the players they did receive. What people are saying is although there were improvements and some sought after free agents that Toronto landed, some were considered overpayments.


Incorrect.

your words:
" I just didn't see major improvement like I did with the other teams. I think Bernier will do well but its still an unknown whether he is an upgrade on Reimer, so it ended up being Bolland, Clarkson for Grabo. Bolland and Clarkson ads size, but I dont see big gains here like other teams."

This sounds as if you think the Leafs made a 'sideways' move. Hilariously, you talk as if all these other teams DID make major improvements, but fail to cite them, so hard to compare which teams you are comparing Toronto to in terms of how they improved their team.

Beans:
"I also don't thing the Leafs did very well in this off season so far."
"I don't think the Leafs have improved substantially ..."
"Sorry Leaf fans, they didn't improve that much and I don't think they did enough to keep pace with either Montreal or Toronto [Boston] in their division."
"Nope, sorry Leaf fans. They didn't do that great."

(It's pretty hilarious due to the repetition, as it's all from the same short post)

Basically, Beans also says it's a sideways move, except he continually repeats himself and makes it even more negative.

At least he provides examples of division rivals who he thought improved, but if examined, it'll become a slippery slope of backtracking . . . if we talk about how Boston "improved". According to Beans, the Boston/Dallas deal was a fair, win-win deal for both sides . . . yet he says they improved. On top of that, Boston lost key pieces in Horton, Ference and Peverly, but got Iginla. Hope Iggy can put up Horton's numbers AND play defence . . .

Montreal, I can agree with that they definitely improved, how much remains to be seen . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  12:12:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Incorrect.

your words:
" I just didn't see major improvement like I did with the other teams. I think Bernier will do well but its still an unknown whether he is an upgrade on Reimer, so it ended up being Bolland, Clarkson for Grabo. Bolland and Clarkson ads size, but I dont see big gains here like other teams."

This sounds as if you think the Leafs made a 'sideways' move. Hilariously, you talk as if all these other teams DID make major improvements, but fail to cite them, so hard to compare which teams you are comparing Toronto to in terms of how they improved their team.

Beans:
"I also don't thing the Leafs did very well in this off season so far."
"I don't think the Leafs have improved substantially ..."
"Sorry Leaf fans, they didn't improve that much and I don't think they did enough to keep pace with either Montreal or Toronto [Boston] in their division."
"Nope, sorry Leaf fans. They didn't do that great."

(It's pretty hilarious due to the repetition, as it's all from the same short post)

Basically, Beans also says it's a sideways move, except he continually repeats himself and makes it even more negative.

At least he provides examples of division rivals who he thought improved, but if examined, it'll become a slippery slope of backtracking . . . if we talk about how Boston "improved". According to Beans, the Boston/Dallas deal was a fair, win-win deal for both sides . . . yet he says they improved. On top of that, Boston lost key pieces in Horton, Ference and Peverly, but got Iginla. Hope Iggy can put up Horton's numbers AND play defence . . .

Montreal, I can agree with that they definitely improved, how much remains to be seen . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Did the Leafs improve, or did they give themselves a chance to improve? I think its the latter.

- Bernier, as a starter, is completely unproven, and unknown. Lots of potential upside for sure, but generally unknown. He's coming from a backup position with a team that was marvelous defensively - how does he play as a starter with a defense that is not nearly as responsible?

- Clarkson: a 29 year old winger signed to a 7 year deal at 5M per, who is about .5 PPG over his last 2 seasons with the Devils, and has never touched the 50 point mark. I know Leaf fans are expecting big things, but at 30 years of age, his best years are not ahead of him. Given your opinion in the Gagner thread of players that have played a few years and not progressed to scoring sensation, do you believe that Clarkson is going to suddenly turn into a 70+ point first line power forward?

- Bolland: the only proven talent that the Leafs acquired, and certainly is a defensive and agitating upgrade on Grabo.

The Leafs did well, in that they didn't s&*t the bed with their signings or trade away any draft picks. But I don't think you can mail a "massive upgrade" in just yet.

As for BOS, I don't think it can be argued that they improved. The traded away or let go of a couple of defensive stalwarts and a young centre (something they have boatloads of), and got 2 offensively AND defensively gifted forwards in their place. BOS was missing offense last year, and they just went out and got proven assets. That is an improvement.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  13:11:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As far as Clarkson goes, I too hope the Leafs land him. Why? Because I think whoever does, is gonna overpay.



Looks like I got my wish!



As if it was a bold prediction to say that a sought after free agent was going to be overpaid . . . jeesh!




Jeesh! Slozo, i thought you'd be able to comprehend my post better than that. I wasn't patting myself on the back for predicting someone would overpay for Clarkson, rather pointing out that i "got my wish" that it was the Leafs! I didn't see anywhere there where i said "SEE! I told you he'd be overpaid!!!!". I obviously have "half a brain" is suppose?

BTW, where'd you get this info that Clarkson spent most of this past season playing on the 3rd line in NJ? I'm not telling you you're wrong, but i'm guessing you are by a long shot.



My comments were mostly directed at the infamous Beans, and yes, he DID say that the Leafs didn't really improve. And yes, I do find that a totally ridiculous statement.

My info on Clarkson 2years ago mostly playing on the third line (his big year) was garnered from real Devils fans on another site . . . I do my research for hockey pooling early and often.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



If your comments were mostly directed towards Beans, why did you "quote" my comment and refer to it as you did? I see that you also went on to comment on Beans but that's why i editted out the rest and focussed on your retort to my bit. No biggie, not an issue anyway with me.

As far as Clarkson goes, that's great that two years ago he played 3rd line. This past season, he was apparently playing most of his shifts with Zajac and Elias, which i assume would be either line 1 or 2. He also found himself on the first unit PP both this last year AND 2 years ago where he put up 1/3 of his points (both seasons). He also started hot this season with 10 goals in his first 14 games only to go into a drought of 13 straight without a goal. After the hot start, he tallied 5 goals in his final 34 games. Maybe i don't do my research as early as you, but i do know how to do it. Besides, i need not do any research, i've already learned from COS that all i need to do is pick Phil Kessel to win a pool!

I'm not even part of the "Toronto didn't improve" argument here. I think they did, although i don't think as much as others and i don't have a problem with them not being mentioned in the original question. My issue with Clarkson is simply the money he's making. I understand that you often have to overpay to get a UFA unless he's willing to take a bit of a discount because he really wants to go to a certain destination (ie. Dan Hamhuis). Apparently Clarkson is a "hometowner" and maybe you can thank Beans' Oilers for driving the price up? Maybe he figured he did give a discount and compared to what else was offered, maybe it was? I just think even the hometown team has to draw the line somewhere and personally i think they gave him too much. I guess we have to wait a few years to find out? It's why it's dangerous to chase these guys unless you really feel they're the missing piece. Personally, i think with the term they gave Clarkson, it will come back to bite them somewhat in the future. However, like i've mentioned in other threads, the cap is expected to rise "quite substantially" over the next few seasons and maybe it won't affect them whatsoever! It wouldn't have gotten him in Leaf blue i'm sure, but i'd have been more comfortable if i were a Leafer if he'd signed for 3 years at that money, or 4-4.25 over 7. Keep in mind, he's 29, that's a long term for a 29 yr old who's never cracked 50 points.

Edited by - Alex116 on 07/08/2013 13:18:11
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  14:45:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd hate for this to become another bashing on Toronto thread by other teams fans or pumping up the amazing gains Toronto did by blue tinted glasses.

" I just didn't see major improvement like I did with the other teams. I think Bernier will do well but its still an unknown whether he is an upgrade on Reimer, so it ended up being Bolland, Clarkson for Grabo. Bolland and Clarkson ads size, but I dont see big gains here like other teams."

You'll notice were I said no major improvements, the remainder of my post I talked about all of Toronto's pickup, but I didn't see Major improvements. To me I think taking a position with a weak #1 goalie and adding a Strong #1, is a major improvement. Taking a overpaid player with lessor stats and replacing him with an underpaid player with greater stats and great 2way play to be a major improvement.



"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/08/2013 14:55:19
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  15:16:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Toronto fans don't wanna take fellow posters critique, how about NHL.com

"TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

Say hello to: RW David Clarkson, C Dave Bolland, C Tyler Bozak (re-signed)

Say goodbye to: LW Clarke MacArthur, C Mikhail Grabovski

Still shopping: C Tim Connolly, D Michael Kostka, D Ryan O'Byrne

Skinny: Add in the contract for new goalie (from two weeks ago) Jonathan Bernier, and the Maple Leafs have spent a significant chunk of cap space to swap out Grabovski (a compliance buyout), MacArthur, Matt Frattin and Ben Scrivens for Bolland, Clarkson, Bernier and a raise for Bozak. Are the Maple Leafs better today than they were at the end of 2012-13? Eh, maybe. Bolland and Clarkson are certainly tough, gritty players, and coach Randy Carlyle will like that. There is plenty of advanced statistical data available to argue letting go of Grabovski and giving a big raise to Bozak was a mistake. It is also likely Nazem Kadri, the team's top RFA, regresses to some degree in 2013-14. Bernier could be great but is relatively untested at this level. Scoring goals was not a problem for Toronto; the defense corps looks to be similar, so a bounce-back year from Jake Gardiner would help a lot."

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  16:33:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So Joshua, whats your point really with posting that segment from NHL.com ??....all i read was some sports writer guessing if`s, buts, and`s and or`s .....

This is just some mumbo - jumbo rambling of the leafs movements but not really confirming anything, in my opinion.

He sez kadri will prob. regress ?? how the hell does he know that ?? guess-work

He sez the defense corps looks the same...yeah they are...so is he saying thats good or bad ??...if your intention ( joshua ) was to make this look negative, how does it ?....I think going into a full season with a healthy Jake Gardiner......experience from last seasons playoffs for Mark Frazer and Cody Franson ( who is blossoming ), the D will be better......Jake Gardiner will shine this season.

Another segment.....Bernier COULD be great ??...but he is untested at this level.....is this suppose to be a negative thing ??....leafs still got Reimer, does the writer know this ??....Whats wrong with picking up a 24 year old goalie who could be the next cujo for the leafs ??....if he doesn`t ...SO WHAT...it still would be worth the gamble, you never know till u try.............Did the Flames draft Trevor Kidd ahead of Martin Brodeur ??...i think they did.....u have to gamble on goalies, take a chance.

As to your comment Joshua.......if the leaf fans here don`t want to listen to other posters critique of the leafs and then posting this............this guy isn`t really saying much about anything.....just a lot of guess work, which is all we can do.

He also points out that giving Bozak a raise and letting Grab go is a mistake...thats just his opinion. Grab works hard but doesn`t accomplish very much, in my opinion. Reminds me of Sergi Berezin, puck hog who can`t relate to his linemates....so very unpredictable.

Beans....you really think that Montreal improved much by picking up Briere ??....a mid - thirties player ( on a down-slide in his career ) who is small and has concussion problems......my Montreal fan- friends are pissed at the Canadians efforts during the UFA couple of days............They all are telling me that the Canadians major problem is WAY TOO SMALL up front and bring in Briere is just adding to the problem......Ott. ran over the Canadians in last seasons playoffs, how does Briere help here ??

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  16:41:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Duke, I said above and I will say again, these trades and signings are an improvement for the Leafs. But head of the class, no! I wasn't trying to be negative, to the opposite, I think Toronto did fine. If it was my money, I wouldn't have given so much to Clarkson, Bernier or Bozak, or gone the length of Clarksons contract. I also wouldn't have boughtout Grabo as he was tradeable. Bolland was a great pickup. I don't know much about MacArthur except he seems to have decent stats and he is no longer a Leaf. Schrivens for Bernier good, but IMO and others, Emery signing was better

Spin the negative, stamp your feet and hold your breath all you want, no insult was meant. Don't make me a Leafs hater again.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  19:56:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
People are really ragging on how Boston has handled free agency calling it a step backwards. A lot of people seem unfamiliar with how a lot of gm's are making decisions in the last little while. A lot of there decision are based on cap decisions. What most gm are looking for is gritty, 2way players to take the pressure off there defense, with a low cap hit and a higher point % per $ spent.

Iginla 14-19-33 for $6.0
Erikkson 12-17-29 for $4.25
2012/13 62points for $10.25 = $6.05 points per million

Sequin 16-16-32 for $5.75
Horton 13-9-22 for $5.3
Peverly 6-12-18 for $3.25
Ference 4-9-13 for $3.25
2012/13 85 points for $17.55 = $4.84 points per million

Of the players lost to free agency Horton was the worst points per dollar player and Iginla more than makes up for his contributions at a better $ per point ration, by far. Eriksson to Seguin was much the same, but Eriksson is considered better 2way than Seguin again at a lower $ per point ratio.

As has been said before Boston has a plethera of centerman and Peverly much like Seguin was way down the depth chart, misused in Bostons, so Boston shed his cap hit and his return was another depth player.

I literally had to google the backup Khudobin, who they let go to Carolina. Not a big loss, 21 games with decent stats in the NHL between Minnesota and Boston, both defensive teams. Lets see how he does with Carolina. Boston has 3 good prospective goalies they want to have a look at in the NHL.

The only part not replaced thru trades or free agency is Ference. Who is Ference, 34 year old 190 pound 5-11. A solid puck moving defender, known as a gritty and tough checker. Most teams would love to have just 1 of these guys on there team, but Boston has many larger and just as solid pieces, including Hamilton which they hope can improve with top 4 minutes. His cap hit at $3.25 million was to much for Boston and they had depth behind they need to develop, so he was expendable.

Best part of all this is Boston replaced points lost thru trade or free agency for less money and now have cap space and flexibility. This is why most are saying Boston did well this free agency. And I am not a Boston fan!

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  20:29:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So what I've learned is,
no Leaf fan can ever disagree with any commentary on the Leafs that is the slight bit negative. It becomes a "blue-tinted glasses" scenario.

Then, a bunch of posters will pile on, agreeing with each other, handing out strawman arguments like condoms at a frat party, and exaggerating the Leaf claims to easily put them down as nonsensical.

All the while, all the Leafs fan did was disagree with a poster who claimed no one was slagging the Leafs . . . and hilariously, after proving that assertion incorrect with direct quotes, the crowd piled on by slagging the Leafs and their fans even more.

It's like some kind of mad comedy.

At this point, there are too many bad arguments, false statements and generally bad information to refute, so . . . despite the inevitable flak I'll get for it, I am leaving this conversation. Beside, it's supposed to be a general off season thread . . . for ALL teams.

You'd think everyone would have better things to do than to slag Leafs all day. And people wonder why Leaf threads never die . . . it's the haters, people. Full of hate, so they ALL have to answer every Leaf poster at all times to get their two cents of btterness in, bloody hell if they miss THAT party!

Oiler fan make a general, grand or sweeping statement? One putdown is enough.

Canucks fan? Maybe a couple more, they are jerks.

But a LEAF fan?!? Crapflood of responses. For anything.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  20:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, and Beans - since I've been working so bloody hard all day deleting posts for Levitra or drugs or easy cash spammers?

You're on spam duty now, I'm done for the next two days. Then you guys can see how much work a Leaf fan does actually.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  21:55:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo.....the biggest problem with threads either becoming "Leaf threads", like this one seems to have, or actual Leaf threads never dying it seems, is the misconception some have towards comments made. I'm not gonna go back through all the posts but this entire thing started when one Leaf fan appeared to feel his team was slighted for not being mentioned in the question posed. Now, if you wanna get real picky, go back to the original question Joshua asked and remember / refamiliarize yourself with this part: "Or is it a surprise team winning like NYI, who have resigned Nabokov and solidly added to the team with signings like Regin and Bouchard, Harmonic while dealing with Dipietro's elephant of a contract."

I know you need not be taught how the English language works, but this sentence does actually include the Leafs. "Or is it a surprise team winning LIKE the NYI.....". NYI was used as an example and TO could easily be included, as could ANY other team already not mentioned.

You satisfied yet?
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  22:35:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, Slozo, really?

Take a breath, I for one haven't been part of the 'haters', I for one try and stay out of any commentary that could be construed as such for exactly this reason.

It wasn't like the thread started with anyone saying what a bad job the Leafs did, it started with yourself feeling slighted. And now you get indignant?

You are far too intelligible of a poster, and person I am thinking, to resort to a tantrum. It doesn't look good on you at all.

We are all entitled to opinions, backed up with what we consider reasonable thought process, it certainly shouldn't have anyone labeled as a hater because it differs from yours.

There are numerous articles backing what some of the posters are saying, does that make all those writers haters as well? It is usually in Toronto's favor when the press corps put pen to paper involving the Leafs.

It has been explained that Toronto didn't do a bad job with movements, just didn't do anything to greatly improve... in some poster's, and some hockey writer's opinions.....there was no personal attacks against the Leafs that I saw.

Methinks it isn't blue-tinted glasses, so much as red-tinted, that are showing here, unneccessarily.

The only strawman I see is the one that goes up in flames whenever the Leafs are questioned.

If you'd like my observations on off season transactions, to keep me on track, I can provide that, but everyone seems to have covered what I would have to say, it just dismays me that they have get chastised for it like that.

Just my 2 cents, don't take it personally, I am just surprised at the seeming vehemence in your tirade.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2013 :  22:39:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

So what I've learned is,
no Leaf fan can ever disagree with any commentary on the Leafs that is the slight bit negative. It becomes a "blue-tinted glasses" scenario.

Then, a bunch of posters will pile on, agreeing with each other, handing out strawman arguments like condoms at a frat party, and exaggerating the Leaf claims to easily put them down as nonsensical.

All the while, all the Leafs fan did was disagree with a poster who claimed no one was slagging the Leafs . . . and hilariously, after proving that assertion incorrect with direct quotes, the crowd piled on by slagging the Leafs and their fans even more.

It's like some kind of mad comedy.

At this point, there are too many bad arguments, false statements and generally bad information to refute, so . . . despite the inevitable flak I'll get for it, I am leaving this conversation. Beside, it's supposed to be a general off season thread . . . for ALL teams.

You'd think everyone would have better things to do than to slag Leafs all day. And people wonder why Leaf threads never die . . . it's the haters, people. Full of hate, so they ALL have to answer every Leaf poster at all times to get their two cents of btterness in, bloody hell if they miss THAT party!

Oiler fan make a general, grand or sweeping statement? One putdown is enough.

Canucks fan? Maybe a couple more, they are jerks.

But a LEAF fan?!? Crapflood of responses. For anything.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Wow...

Why do leaf fans equate "your team did OK" with Leaf-bashing? I don't see anyone here saying the Leafs suck, or that the players they got suck or are worse than the players that they gave away. Most just don't agree that the Leafs won the offseason sweepstakes, contrary to your assertion otherwise. They did OK - they got rid of some quality players, and got some new but unproven players to take their place.

If I look back on this thread, it was actually you that made it about the Leafs, when you responded to Joshua's list.

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/08/2013 22:41:06
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  08:16:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

So what I've learned is,
no Leaf fan can ever disagree with any commentary on the Leafs that is the slight bit negative. It becomes a "blue-tinted glasses" scenario.

Then, a bunch of posters will pile on, agreeing with each other, handing out strawman arguments like condoms at a frat party, and exaggerating the Leaf claims to easily put them down as nonsensical.

All the while, all the Leafs fan did was disagree with a poster who claimed no one was slagging the Leafs . . . and hilariously, after proving that assertion incorrect with direct quotes, the crowd piled on by slagging the Leafs and their fans even more.

It's like some kind of mad comedy.

At this point, there are too many bad arguments, false statements and generally bad information to refute, so . . . despite the inevitable flak I'll get for it, I am leaving this conversation. Beside, it's supposed to be a general off season thread . . . for ALL teams.

You'd think everyone would have better things to do than to slag Leafs all day. And people wonder why Leaf threads never die . . . it's the haters, people. Full of hate, so they ALL have to answer every Leaf poster at all times to get their two cents of btterness in, bloody hell if they miss THAT party!

Oiler fan make a general, grand or sweeping statement? One putdown is enough.

Canucks fan? Maybe a couple more, they are jerks.

But a LEAF fan?!? Crapflood of responses. For anything.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



So what I think has happened is most posters are saying Toronto improved and from your prospective, Toronto is leaps and bounds better than last year. I don't know if its a case of you and other defending your teams signings to much, while others have pointed out the losses and buyouts the Leafs have done, too much. I may be a matter of "protesting too much" that has caused a little Leaf hate to come your way. I dont think its personal, I definitely don't think its worse than any other topic involving the Leafs and to be honest some of it is just plain critisizm that you will have to deal with.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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