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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  09:12:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gotta love Cherry. Here is his take on the NHL offseason signings and losses:

On Daniel Alfredsson going to Detroit:

Don: ďSomeone asked me about that. I think Ottawa has as much of a chance to win the Stanley Cup as Detroit. Is there no loyalty?Ē

On Leafs getting David Clarkson and re-signing Tyler Bozak:

Don: ď(Seven years) for Clarkson, I knew about that (Thursday). I gave my word, so I have to sit there listen to these guys talking about where guys are gonna go...I mean... I knew (Nathan) Horton was going to Columbus. (Bozak) I canít believe they re-signed him for that, I mean, thereís a classic case of overpaying a guy. Ridiculous. Heís a plugger, heís playing with (Phil) Kessel and he canít get 20 goals. You could get 20 goals playing with Kessel (laugh).Ē (Editorís Note: No I couldnít.)

On Oilers getting D man Brad Ference and Bruins trading away Tyler Seguin:

Don: ďFerence is a good guy, good player, good solid defenceman, heís going out there where he come from and the whole deal. But the Bruins, I canít believe they gave up on Seguin, but there was bad feelings in Boston there I think. Something happened. He (Peter Chiarelli GM) inferred that he was not a good kid off the ice. I donít care if heís Jekyll and Hyde you donít say that. Everybody starts asking what did the kid do, what has he done? Heís a good kid really. Heís a young single kid what do you think heís gonna be a monk?Ē

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  09:32:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok so as you know i am a leafs fan...... do i thnik the leafs greatly improved?? No! do i think they marginally improved?? Yes.

The moves they have made are good ones. lets not think of bozak being overpaid. i pose this question. everyone in TO KNOWS that bozak and kessel are really good friends. would Kessel (our one in a decade player) stick around in TO if his good friend (whom he likes playing with) leaves. I say bozaks price is as much for keeping kessel as it is bozak!

Grabo leaving is GREAT for the leafs he didnt utilize his wingers enough. clark mac was never really utlized by carlyle. Nonis brought in people that his COACH favoured. is that what some people would call improving? Making you coach happy with the players he gets to coach. personally the leafs offence wasnt the problem (could have been better) the defence was. Nonis failed to address that to this point.
Clarkson i agree would have like to see signed to a cheaper home town discount. but it is what it is Thats free agency for you!

i agree other teams improved and personally i dont see any team that PROVED they have improved yet.... o wait the season hasnt started yet?? thats right!!! lets not get bent out of shape over opinions people.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  10:57:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
On Leafs getting David Clarkson and re-signing Tyler Bozak:

Don: ď(Seven years) for Clarkson, I knew about that (Thursday). I gave my word, so I have to sit there listen to these guys talking about where guys are gonna go...I mean... I knew (Nathan) Horton was going to Columbus. (Bozak) I canít believe they re-signed him for that, I mean, thereís a classic case of overpaying a guy. Ridiculous. Heís a plugger, heís playing with (Phil) Kessel and he canít get 20 goals. You could get 20 goals playing with Kessel (laugh).Ē (Editorís Note: No I couldnít.)




Bah, Cherry. Nothing but a Leaf hater...
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  11:15:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
On Leafs getting David Clarkson and re-signing Tyler Bozak:

Don: ď(Seven years) for Clarkson, I knew about that (Thursday). I gave my word, so I have to sit there listen to these guys talking about where guys are gonna go...I mean... I knew (Nathan) Horton was going to Columbus. (Bozak) I canít believe they re-signed him for that, I mean, thereís a classic case of overpaying a guy. Ridiculous. Heís a plugger, heís playing with (Phil) Kessel and he canít get 20 goals. You could get 20 goals playing with Kessel (laugh).Ē (Editorís Note: No I couldnít.)




Bah, Cherry. Nothing but a Leaf hater...

I posted it not so much as Leafs hate, but a guy with definite IN THE KNOW experience, which also included the Bruins and Alfredson. Weird that he and I agree, eh!

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
809 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  12:37:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Oh, and Beans - since I've been working so bloody hard all day deleting posts for Levitra or drugs or easy cash spammers?

You're on spam duty now, I'm done for the next two days. Then you guys can see how much work a Leaf fan does actually.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Levitra actually does wonders for those who think their team will make the playoffs next year. I've been taking it for years, and lost a lot of money in the meantime. That's what easy cash loans are for.



The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.

Edited by - OILINONTARIO on 07/09/2013 13:32:00
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2013 :  14:09:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO

quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Oh, and Beans - since I've been working so bloody hard all day deleting posts for Levitra or drugs or easy cash spammers?

You're on spam duty now, I'm done for the next two days. Then you guys can see how much work a Leaf fan does actually.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Levitra actually does wonders for those who think their team will make the playoffs next year. I've been taking it for years, and lost a lot of money in the meantime. That's what easy cash loans are for.



The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.



Now that's funny! Well done!

PS. I thought the Levitra spamming might have been a result of Crock's adoration of Phil in that other thread, and the easy cash from all the Kessel merchandise he must be purchasing, but I like your explanation even better!
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2013 :  16:23:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
21 players including Sam Gagner, Chris Stewart, Brian Little, Zach Bogosian, Blake Wheeler and Josh Bailey have file for arbitration.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/7/10/4512166/nhl-free-agency-nhlpa-salary-arbitration-2013

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2013 :  18:18:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read today that there are rumours Chris Kelly and Brad Marchand are being shopped. Marchand, being refered to as the little ball of hate 5-9 185pds, was Bostons most productive forward leading the Bruins in the regular season with 18 goals, 18 assist, 36 points last year, but reportedly is being shopped for the same reasons Boston move Seguin, party lifestyle. I have to ask, what happened in Boston last year? They had an epic callapse prior to the playoffs, pulled it together in time for the 1st round, by the skin of there teeth, then found the legs for a playoff drive to the final. Then after making a competitive drive, they dismantle the team.

Ference, Seguin, Peverly, Horton, and Jagr out.

Marchand and Kelly reportedly being shopped

Iginla, Eriksson and Reilly Smith being brought in.

Just seems like a wholesale change outside of Rask, Chara, Bergeron, Lucic, Boychuk, Seidenberg and Krejci. On the surface a few of these signings and trades look good to great. Taken as a whole, this roster is in for significant changes.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/10/2013 18:22:19
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2013 :  22:12:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan...lol...you post is exactly what Slozo is talking about. I don`t know if you guys really believe what u post or you just do.... it to stir the pot .....i don`t really care 1 way or the other..... ......but

You posted .....the leafs did OK........

They let go some QUALITY PLAYERS......and

REPLACED them with new UNPROVEN ONES.........

Ok , i`ll agree on Jonathan Bernier (not 100 % proven as a starter )

So, you are saying they let quality go.........Komasarik .... Schrivens........Frattin............Grab.....and brought in new

UNPROVEN ........ players like Bolland and Clarkson ?? ......

Didn`t Clarkson just recently go to the stanley cup final with NJ ??.....Didn`t Bolland just recently win 2 stanley cups ??.......but of course they are as you say, unproven..........

OH I see, the proven , quality ones are the ones the leafs let go....the ones i listed above.....with all the play-off experience and S - cup rings. .....then you guys wonder why leaf fans respond to this foolish nonsense..........oh but wait, we are the ones wearing blue tinted glasses.......Nuxfan, those comments are false and factually untrue....why print them ??

Then you say we ( as leaf fans ) are paranoid and defensive over the leafs...........look at it from the leaf side for once, we read this stuff all the time, no wonder Slozo blew up.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  07:05:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Gotta love Cherry. Here is his take on the NHL offseason signings and losses:

On Daniel Alfredsson going to Detroit:

Don: ďSomeone asked me about that. I think Ottawa has as much of a chance to win the Stanley Cup as Detroit. Is there no loyalty?Ē

On Leafs getting David Clarkson and re-signing Tyler Bozak:

Don: ď(Seven years) for Clarkson, I knew about that (Thursday). I gave my word, so I have to sit there listen to these guys talking about where guys are gonna go...I mean... I knew (Nathan) Horton was going to Columbus. (Bozak) I canít believe they re-signed him for that, I mean, thereís a classic case of overpaying a guy. Ridiculous. Heís a plugger, heís playing with (Phil) Kessel and he canít get 20 goals. You could get 20 goals playing with Kessel (laugh).Ē (Editorís Note: No I couldnít.)

On Oilers getting D man Brad Ference and Bruins trading away Tyler Seguin:

Don: ďFerence is a good guy, good player, good solid defenceman, heís going out there where he come from and the whole deal. But the Bruins, I canít believe they gave up on Seguin, but there was bad feelings in Boston there I think. Something happened. He (Peter Chiarelli GM) inferred that he was not a good kid off the ice. I donít care if heís Jekyll and Hyde you donít say that. Everybody starts asking what did the kid do, what has he done? Heís a good kid really. Heís a young single kid what do you think heís gonna be a monk?Ē

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Don Cherry played one NHL game.

As a coach, with a stacked and favoured Bruins team with the great Bobby Orr, Don was unable to succeed, and in fact he was part of the infamous "too many men on the ice" incident that blew the series.

"Up by a goal with less than two minutes left in the seventh game, the Bruins were called for having too many men on the ice. The Canadiens' Guy Lafleur scored the tying goal on the subsequent power play and ultimately won the game in overtime."

Cherry was fired by the Bruins for that one.

And to top it all off, before you give me good examples of non-hockey players with no coaching experience being excellent commentators . . . please note that instead of being specific when giving examples and backing up his points, Cherry more often than not relies on his reputation, often stating "I know!" and "trust me!", as if this is all the back-up he needs.

So no, you don't "gotta love Cherry" at all . . . I consider him a racist and ignorant commentator, with very little valuable insight, and a boatload of misinformation and ignorance.

All that being said,
Tyler Bozak is what he is . . . what can certainly be seen as a 'stop-gap' at top line centre, who just got signed to a long term deal. He has slowly progressed in an upward trend, with flashes of competency for that top line position; but he certainly doesn't seem to project into a 65+ point player.

At this point, he's an 'ok' 2nd line centre who is good on the pk.

With no better options for top line centre (I am really glad they didn't go for Weiss, and they missed out on Lecavalier apparently) the Leafs ensured that they locked up the serviceable guy they had. They probably overpaid, and certainly the term is longer than I would have wanted . . . but, it is what it is, and I'm ok with Bozak the player being on the Leafs (for now).

He is by no means even remotely close to a "plugger".

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest2654
( )

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  08:05:28  Reply with Quote
Bobby Orr didn't play for Boston in the series you refer to. That series was the 1979 conference finals. Bobby Orr signed with Chicago in1976/77 and retired shortly there after.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  08:17:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, I think at the end of the day, he is a guy with 40 years of being around the game with inside information, players, coaches, management given him the inside track and like it or not, was a respected coach in the NHL. Not saying he isn't the things you said, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. At least we all agree that Bozak was an overpayment, but a servicable center for the Leafs.

Duke, I dont believe anyone was talking about Bolland and Clarkson being unproven, unlike Bernier which most posters, writers and commentators have stated they don't know if he is an upgrade over Reimer, who has more #1 experience. I think most are saying Bolland was an over pay and Clarkson was signed too long, but they are gritty and experienced. I think this will benifit Toronto.

What do you think of the other things in the article not related to the Leafs.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  08:25:33  Reply with Quote
Generally speaking, and with exceptions of course, I think that the off season was intriguing, but at the end of the day, most teams moved sideways rather than up or down ... at least on paper.

The Leafs are a good example of that. So I would say, is Boston.

thats not to say that either of the teams wont be better, but both teams lost some assets and paid out big bucks on contrcats which will require good management to navigate in years to come.

I think Dallas can point to a new improved lineup, but most teams inched forward or sideways rather than made a big splash.

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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  08:28:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Nuxfan...lol...you post is exactly what Slozo is talking about. I don`t know if you guys really believe what u post or you just do.... it to stir the pot .....i don`t really care 1 way or the other..... ......but

You posted .....the leafs did OK........

They let go some QUALITY PLAYERS......and

REPLACED them with new UNPROVEN ONES.........

Ok , i`ll agree on Jonathan Bernier (not 100 % proven as a starter )

So, you are saying they let quality go.........Komasarik .... Schrivens........Frattin............Grab.....and brought in new

UNPROVEN ........ players like Bolland and Clarkson ?? ......

Didn`t Clarkson just recently go to the stanley cup final with NJ ??.....Didn`t Bolland just recently win 2 stanley cups ??.......but of course they are as you say, unproven..........

OH I see, the proven , quality ones are the ones the leafs let go....the ones i listed above.....with all the play-off experience and S - cup rings. .....then you guys wonder why leaf fans respond to this foolish nonsense..........oh but wait, we are the ones wearing blue tinted glasses.......Nuxfan, those comments are false and factually untrue....why print them ??

Then you say we ( as leaf fans ) are paranoid and defensive over the leafs...........look at it from the leaf side for once, we read this stuff all the time, no wonder Slozo blew up.



If you read a few posts above, I fully agree that Bolland is quality, and was a good pickup.

However, with Bernier and Clarkson, yes, the Leafs have gotten unproven players. When I say "unproven", I mean "unproven for the roles that TOR will expect them to fill". With both of those guys, TOR is paying for expectations, not for what they have accomplished so far:

Bernier - we've gone over, he's a guy with 60 games with a great defensive team who has never started in his career. The Leafs are now paying him 3M a year to prove that he can start. He'll either prove he can, or prove that he cannot. I think we can all agree that he is solidly unproven.

Clarkson - a career 3rd liner that has recently seen an increased role, some PP time, but does not kill penalties. Over the last 2 years he has increased his scoring to roughly 0.5 ppg, but at the age of 29, has never cracked the 50 point barrier. The Leafs are now paying him 5.25M per year for 7 years, and there is no doubt that he will be expected to succeed in a top line role - which is a big difference from before.

So, in my view (and others apparently) - the Leafs got rid of:

- Grabovski - a forward that had a bad 12/13, but was coming off back-to-back 50+ point seasons, playing on a very effective TOR second line. PROVEN PRODUCER IN THE ROLE HE IS IN.

- MacArthur - a forward that had back-to-back 50+ point seasons before "tailing off" to just under .05 PPG last season, again playing on a pretty effective TOR second line. PROVEN PRODUCER IN THE ROLE HE IS IN.

- Frattin - a young forward that had only just become part of the Leafs lineup, but certainly unproven at this point.

- Komisarek - clearly a failure in TOR, it was a good move to get rid of him.

Duke, no matter what way you slice this, I'm not seeing a huge upgrade RIGHT NOW. I don't think that TOR definitively improved their team this offseason. You are free to believe that Bernier is going to be the next Schnieder/Crawford/Niemi/Rask, and that Clarkson is going to be the next Corey Perry/James Neal/Jeff Carter. However they are not those sorts of players today.

All that being said - if Bernier and Clarkson LIVE UP TO EXPECTATIONS in Toronto, then these moves will largely be seen as successful, and we'll be able to say in a year or two that yes, TOR did indeed get better.

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/11/2013 08:29:56
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  09:47:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anybody got any critque not related to Toronto?

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  10:01:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Anybody got any critque not related to Toronto?




As much as I like the Perron move to EDM, I can't help but wonder if EDM gave up on Paajarvi too soon. I don't see him enough to really say... but I always thought he was mis-placed in a 3rd line role.

Still, I guess you have to give something up to get something, and the trade looks like a fair one for both sides.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  10:22:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read in the Edmonton Journal today, Hemsky's house is on the market, which signals the Oilers have been verbal with there plans to move him. The Oilers are hoping Ben Eager can regain his form during camp. I have always liked Eager and was hoping for good things. He was picked up after Chicago's cup run a few years ago and has also had concussion/health issues. He is a big and fast player who can check, score and makes life tougher for opposition. Eakins said he was impressed with Eagers play last year after he was dropped to the Minors and hopes for a bounce back season. Sure would help the bottom 6 if he does.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  11:28:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Slozo, I think at the end of the day, he is a guy with 40 years of being around the game with inside information, players, coaches, management given him the inside track and like it or not, was a respected coach in the NHL. Not saying he isn't the things you said, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. At least we all agree that Bozak was an overpayment, but a servicable center for the Leafs.

Duke, I dont believe anyone was talking about Bolland and Clarkson being unproven, unlike Bernier which most posters, writers and commentators have stated they don't know if he is an upgrade over Reimer, who has more #1 experience. I think most are saying Bolland was an over pay and Clarkson was signed too long, but they are gritty and experienced. I think this will benifit Toronto.

What do you think of the other things in the article not related to the Leafs.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Hold your horses there, sailor:

Did you say "Don Cherry was respected coach in the NHL"?!?

So respected, in fact, that after he lost his job in Boston, he was picked up right away . . . uh, picked up next year . . . uh, picked up years later by . . . anyone? anyone? Bueller?



His record, and record of employment, speaks volumes to those wishing to look for how "respected" he was.

---

To the point on Bernier (who I haven't talked about yet)
I think of him as a pretty "even" piece when compared to Reimer, but if judging him on what hockey people call his talent level or "ceiling" . . . he is well above Reimer. And that's why Toronto management picked him up, he's an available, inexperienced young guy with a very high ceiling (as judged by experts).

It's a huge upgrade - and I don't buy the argument that many Leafs fans have against it, which was, we lost a guy (Frattin) who was a solid young player for a guy (Bernier) to replace another guy (Scrivens) in a position we already had covered.

Bernier, right now, has proven himself to be a better back-up to Scrivens at worst; and is potentially the starter of the future at best. Reimer is a definite injury risk at this point in his career, and that fact is not lost on the Leafs. To be caught with a longterm injury, and having Scrivens in the net for an extended period of time would have spelled disaster for the season, I'd reckon.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  11:57:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the thing, Bernier is somewhat inexperienced, therefore we don't know exactly how good he may be or become. In fairness, when us Canucks fans talked about Schneider being the next big thing, we were often chastised as he was unproven. He's still not fully "proven" per se, but i'd say he's done enough to warrant the respect he's now being given and that's proof by the general consensus that Vancouver didn't get enough in return for him. Funny though how a lot of the people who, even up until the end of this season, didn't think Schneider was proven just yet, are the same one's now claiming he's a future stud and NJ totally ripped off Vancouver! Ironic huh?

As for Bernier, i see similarities in their positions as far as the point they're at in their careers, the fact they've both just been traded, etc. I love the trade for the Leafs and maybe it's because i'm a bit of a gambler? Regardless, mix it with my skepticism over Reimer and his injury history, and i don't think i'd be complaining as a Leaf fan. Will Bernier pan out? Maybe, maybe not? But i think the risk is well worth the potential reward.
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  12:03:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regarding Cherry,

He was actually picked up to coach the next year, Colorado Rockies, not exactly the Bruins, but still a coach nonetheless.....just pointing out the facts, not to be contentious.

I am no Cherry lover, but a quick read of his Wikipedia entry, does point to his pedigree regarding hockey accomplishments and thereby his relevant experience to speak about it.

Again, just counter points, not looking to derail this thread.

Edited by - fat_elvis_rocked on 07/11/2013 12:05:49
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  13:37:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked

Regarding Cherry,

He was actually picked up to coach the next year, Colorado Rockies, not exactly the Bruins, but still a coach nonetheless.....just pointing out the facts, not to be contentious.

I am no Cherry lover, but a quick read of his Wikipedia entry, does point to his pedigree regarding hockey accomplishments and thereby his relevant experience to speak about it.

Again, just counter points, not looking to derail this thread.

Cherry picking, eh! Did you notice how so called experts are projecting Bernier's ceiling higher in his thread than Reimer. Not Don Cherry, maybe the same experts who picked Daigle as the next Gretzky.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  18:50:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's something to critique. Boston gives rask 7 million per season for 8 years, after one full season in net. Any comments ?........Boston fans, or anyone else ?....everyone , but me, posted that the leafs overpaid for clarkson and his term was too long.....clarkson @ 5.25. Million Per season....... Rask @ 7 million per season .... Clarkson did have one 30 goal season, on a defensive minded team.......rask had 1 good year.... Any thoughts ??.......................... .........clarkson skated in TO. Today alongside Wendell Clark and others......w. Clark said of crarkson..... I never had talent like this guy. He is definitely not a one diminsional player, if you want a physical game he is there, if you want the puck in the net he is there.......can't wait for next season to start, gonna be a great season for the leafs, I can feel it for the first time since 1993.....leafs got a damn good mixture of size, speed toughness and skill
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  18:55:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry guys, kept rambling ...lol...those last 4 line of last paragraph were not Clark's words of course...... Just me...lol
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2013 :  19:37:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I read in the Edmonton Journal today, Hemsky's house is on the market, which signals the Oilers have been verbal with there plans to move him.



Luongo put his Yaletown condo on the market in the summer after getting a verbal confirmation he would be moved...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/06/roberto-luongo-vancouver-condo-for-sale_n_3226966.html

I'm not sure if it sold or not.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  01:05:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Here's something to critique. Boston gives rask 7 million per season for 8 years, after one full season in net. Any comments ?........Boston fans, or anyone else ?....everyone , but me, posted that the leafs overpaid for clarkson and his term was too long.....clarkson @ 5.25. Million Per season....... Rask @ 7 million per season .... Clarkson did have one 30 goal season, on a defensive minded team.......rask had 1 good year.... Any thoughts ??.......................... .........clarkson skated in TO. Today alongside Wendell Clark and others......w. Clark said of crarkson..... I never had talent like this guy. He is definitely not a one diminsional player, if you want a physical game he is there, if you want the puck in the net he is there.......can't wait for next season to start, gonna be a great season for the leafs, I can feel it for the first time since 1993.....leafs got a damn good mixture of size, speed toughness and skill



Ok, i'll bite....

Rask led all goalies with a .940 save % AND was within .002 of the best GAA in the league for all playoff goalies (who at least played a few games of course). What did Clarkson do in the playoffs? OH, wait....

You have to keep in mind the importance of position. Rask played the majority of the games for the Bruins as the starter in net. Clarkson, who started hot then tailed off mightily, is a forward who can easily have "off games" and not be noticed. You can't say the same for Rask. To compare these two and the money they were given is ridiculous!!! I've yet to see anyone make a comment saying Rask has been overpaid yet, I see many saying Clarkson is!!!! This has to be worth something?

Nice to see Wendel Clark has all these opinions of Clarkson from a quick skate or game of "shinny" with him! Lol, those comments are laughable.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  08:14:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Here's something to critique. Boston gives rask 7 million per season for 8 years, after one full season in net. Any comments ?



Rask has actually had 2 seasons as a starter - the first was 09/10 when Thomas lost his mojo and Rask took over in the second half of the year. 10/11 and 11/12 he was a pretty significant backup, playing 30 games per year, and this past year of course was the full starter.

Its hard to compare goalies to forwards in regards to contracts, they are different positions. Rask is widely considered to be one of the top-3 goalies in the NHL today (perhaps even top-2). With that in mind, in the goalie world, this is not an overpayment. Looking at other top goalies that signed contracts recently:

- Jimmy Howard: 6yr/32M, 5.3M cap hit
- Kari Lehtonen: 5yr/29.5M, 6.25M cap hit
- Carey Price: 6yr/39M, 6.5M cap hit
- Jon Quick: 10yr/58M, 5.8M cap hit
- Pekka Rinne: 7ry/49M, 7M cap hit
- Mike Smith: 6yr/34M, 5.7M cap hit

I'd say the Rask deal seems about right.

I would say this also sets a bar for top young goalies that will be signing contracts soon - how can CHI pay Crawford less than 6M a year? Crawford, Halak, Elliot are all FA next summer, Schneider and Niemi the year after that

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/12/2013 08:15:21
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  14:18:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

. Today alongside Wendell Clark and others......w. Clark said of crarkson..... I never had talent like this guy.


So removing the last for lines of your paragraph, Wendell Clark said, he never had talent like Clarkson. Hockey players are better athletes today, with regards to conditioning and positional game play. Not surprised a guy who hasn't laced them up in 15 odd years might give him that type of praise. But to be honest, you might be able to read into those comments about many players playing in todays NHL.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  22:06:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok...lets forget about rask......boston signs p, bergeon for 8 years for 6.5 million per season........wow.......now this is a player who had one 30 goal season....( the same as clarkson ) one 30 goal season.......wheres the negative comments ???.....oh wait , bergeon doesn`t play for toronto.....

besides Bergeons one 30 goal season , his best season was 22 goals....nor even close again to a 30 goal season.....

summarize.......
bergeon ....27 years old.....one 30 goal season.....1 major concussion....6.5 million per season......8 year term...no comments from anyone........great signing by the bruins of course, naturally.

clarkson....29 years old....one 30 goal season..........no concussions .......5.25 million per season....7 year term....comments ( all posters agree, way too much $$$$$$....way too long of contract ).........any1 noticing a trend here ??

Why is it that the leafs sign the most sought after UFA this season and ALL POSTERS say.....way too much $$$$$.....way too long of contract........

then the bruins sign a player ....with pretty well identical numbers......for MORE $$$$$$ and a LONGER term....a player who has had a major concussion......and no comments ???.......

Don`t give me that bergeon brings more to the table than numbers crap..........so does clarkson..........

Can some1 explain to me why this contract works for boston....but....the clarkson cvontract doesn`t work for toronto ?? .
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5694 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2013 :  22:43:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Don`t give me that bergeon brings more to the table than numbers crap..........so does clarkson..........

Can some1 explain to me why this contract works for boston....but....the clarkson cvontract doesn`t work for toronto ?? .



Duke, I've left of most of your post as the two key parts are here (above). First, i'm sorry, but I have to "give" you "that Bergeron brings more to the table than numbers crap" and if you don't see it, you're blind. Sure Clarkson brings more too, that's why he made the Canadian Olympic team and Bergeron didn't. Wait.....ummm.....

Secondly, if you really need someone to explain why the Bergeron signing IS in fact much better than the Clarkson one, then, no offense, but your hockey knowledge is very questionable.

I won't waste anymore time on this. To make this into a "everyone piles on Toronto" thing is just plain silly. Sorry dude, terrible post......
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  05:59:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't leave it as Alex did because this is just dumb. Duke, as clearly as I can say this, no one piles on the Leafs just because they are the Leafs. They pile on the Leafs because of fans like you. This last post is the reason why. This is a ridiculous, uneducated, biased, and delusional post. Let me explain:

Patrice Bergeron is one of the top players in the NHL today. He has multiple 70, 60, and 50 pt seasons. He has represented his country and won Gold virtually every time. He is arguable the best defensive zone face off player in the NHL and won (and been previously nominated for) the Selke as the best defensive forward in the league. He is also 2 yrs younger than Clarkson and has far more playoff experience.

Can you say any of those things about David Clarkson? Can you say anything about Clarkson that is better than Bergeron?

You can't. And that is why no one says anything about Bergeron getting $6.5 million a season because it's on par with other centres in Bergeron's peer group. People talk crap about Clarkson no different then they talked about Horcoff when he got grossly over paid for a long term deal.

It's not about the Leafs. It's about you and these ridiculous comments.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  11:22:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok guys, I think we have piled on Toronto long enough. At this point if they still dont agree, maybe its best to let the players try to earn the contracts, we disagree with. At this point Clarkson has only played for a defensive team which is considered offensively challenged and his stats are decent. His pay is based on his all around game, but his stats next year, on a offense 1st team might justify this signing and if he does, good. I hate to see a quality player's name get dragged down due to his contract. At the end of the day he was a sought after free agent and from what I heard MacT offered him more for the same length to play in Edmonton. So in essence he signed in TO at a home town discount, by those standards. I really don't dislike him as a player and he should fit in well with Toronto's system.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/13/2013 12:37:56
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  12:55:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh ya, I intended to responds to the foolish "sour grapes" comment made by Slozo a while back. Firstly, I won't deny the Oilers did make a huge play at Clarkson. But, I will emphatically state that at no time did I say I agreed with it. I fact, if I wasn't as protective of my privacy I would post the pictures of the text conversations I was having with friends in edmonton stating the same.

No sour grapes at all. I have never been happier to see a player not come to Edmonton.

Finally, this has nothing to do with Clarkson being a poor player. I fact, it's the exact opposite. He is a very good player and every team would be happy to have him. But, that does not change the fact that he is overpaid by about $1.5 mil/year and a contract about 3 yrs too long. I just lived through the Horcoff deal in Edmonton and this Clarkson deal is about as close to that deal as possible. Horcoff is not a bad hockey player either but he was significantly overpaid.

Anyone who is arguing that Clarkson's deal is good is simply delusion. He's a fine hockey player and will serve the Leafs fine. But that doesn't change the point that his contract is terrible.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  14:56:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am going to try and help Slozo and Duke here, because they are taking a lot of flack for defending there teams signings.

What kind of production do we expect from Clarkson to justify this signing. 30-35 goals, 50-60 points, a team tougher to play against and a hopefully a season in the positive of the +/- column. $5.25 million would seem more justified if he acheives this type of production. He would have to maintain this level of production for a few years for us to look back and say definitively, he earned this contract. I am not betting against him acheiving those stats, but those would all be career stat increases and he does have that potential.

Bernier signed for 3 years at $3.0 million isn't a horrible signing if they truly believe he is a capable #1 going forward. I compared it to Emery's signing which looks like a steal, but Emery will likely cash in at a higher amount at the end of the 1 year contract, if he can hold the #1 in Philly and with the stats/wins I expect of him. If he does find success early I expect a renewal contract from 2-4 years in length, between $3.5-4.5 million. So in a way Bernier could be locked for less over the long term.

I cant defend Grabo's buyout or the overpay on Bozak, but Bolland was a great pickup and Komi's buyout was needed. Again positive forward movement for Toronto.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2013 :  16:40:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my only concern with the Bergeron signing is what it does to the Bruins cap situation. Capgeek has them at 1.5M over the cap with 1 more player to sign. I'm not sure if that value takes into account the LTIR savings they'll get from Savard (PHI should get similar for Pronger). However, next year, when Bergeron's contract kicks in, they'll have 7M to sign 7 players.

I think a few teams are absolutely banking on a cap increase next season.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



702 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  07:38:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's weird, the owner fights to bring down the cap hit and then they bring it upon themselves to raise it.

As for Bergeron and Rask, great players but the contract are in fact long and really expensive. I wouldn't argue with those contract though.

I think for the next 3 or 4 seasons the Clarkson contract will be justified and that he will improve the Leafs. It's those years after that that bugs me. 5.2 million - good money, 7 years - too long.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  09:42:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua, thats a good point....what kind of numbers does clarkson have to put up to justify his contract ??

If Clarkson can be as good as Bergeon defensively.......

and every non - leaf fan seems to agree that bergeon`s contract is fine........looking at bergeon`s numbers over the last 4 - 5 seasons...now at 6.5 million per season, if his contract his fine and justified......clarkson at 5.25 mill per....

Then clarkson`s contract will be justified with 17 - 18 goals per season and roughly 55 points........these numbers of course revolve around what bergeon is doing.....since you all seem to agree that his contract is fine......and of course clarkson does for the leafs defensively, what berg is doing for the bruins.

Beans, theres no need for you to list Bergeons accomplishments over the years, i follow hockey. Bergeon is a very good hockey player but don`t try to tell me that his contributions earn him 6.5 million per season for 8 years.....he is not worth that and you know it but you just wont admit it.

With one major concussion already....i`ll give him 3 - 4 years and Boston will never be able to move his contract.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  13:57:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

If Clarkson can be as good as Bergeon defensively.......

and every non - leaf fan seems to agree that bergeon`s contract is fine........looking at bergeon`s numbers over the last 4 - 5 seasons...now at 6.5 million per season, if his contract his fine and justified......clarkson at 5.25 mill per....

Then clarkson`s contract will be justified with 17 - 18 goals per season and roughly 55 points........these numbers of course revolve around what bergeon is doing.....since you all seem to agree that his contract is fine......and of course clarkson does for the leafs defensively, what berg is doing for the bruins.

Beans, theres no need for you to list Bergeons accomplishments over the years, i follow hockey. Bergeon is a very good hockey player but don`t try to tell me that his contributions earn him 6.5 million per season for 8 years.....he is not worth that and you know it but you just wont admit it.

With one major concussion already....i`ll give him 3 - 4 years and Boston will never be able to move his contract.



Do you really think that Clarkson is going to suddenly do what Bergeron does defensively, in Toronto?!?

As mentioned, Bergeron is a perennial Selke finalist (that actually won once), leads his team in forward SH TOI on a regular basis, and is counted on to win faceoffs and defend when the game is on the line. And that is when he's not centering the second line for BOS, figuring prominently on the PP, and putting up an average of 0.75 PPG over his career.

Other than play on the PP, Clarkson does none of those things. He has never cracked 50 points in a season, and has a career average of about 0.4 PPG. He flutters between the second and 3rd line, although as of recently (as in last year), he does get time on the PP. He is not a particularly prominent defensive forward, nor does he lead his team in SH TOI. In fact, Clarkson played less SH time in a full season than Bergeron averages per game.

Clarkson doesn't do the same things as Bergeron, not even close. However, Bergeron does all the same things as Clarkson, and more. It is why Bergeron (rightly) commands a higher contract than Clarskon.

That being said, Clarkson may indeed live up to his contract - he may go to the next level with a 30g/70pt season, and become a prominent fixture on the top line and top PP for TOR, in which case, this is a great deal (IMO anything less than 20g/65 points will be a fail for TO). But TOR is paying for potential - sometimes those deals turn out well and sometimes they don't. Lets see which side of the coin Clarkson turns up.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2013 :  16:54:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok Duke, if multiple 50, 60, and 70 pt seasons, multiple gold medals in international play, a Stanley Cup, a Selke( and a coupe nominations) and being the best face off player in the NHL isn't worth $6.5 million than what is?

Look at Bergeron and then look at guys like Toews, Datsyuk, Kessler, Carter, Richards et al. Look at their money and look at Bergeron's money. Look familiar?

I'll agree that any contract of 8 yrs is too long. But $6.5 million is market value for Bergeron.

P.S. Your numbers for Clarkson at 17-18 goals is reasonable but 55 pts would be a career year for Clarkson. So, just to confirm, are you saying that if Clarkson has career years for the next 7 years his contract will be of value? I would agree. If Clarkson plays the next 7 seasons, known to be the down turn of a players career, with 125ish goals and 385ish pts then his contract will be of value.

If you honest think that is possible then it is you sir who can not admit things. He might play solid for a year or two, but as he hits his 30's you will see a normal decline that is found with 90% of players.


That's not Leaf bashing. That's reasonable logic based on years of hockey history.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  08:56:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I am going to try and help Slozo and Duke here, because they are taking a lot of flack for defending there teams signings.

What kind of production do we expect from Clarkson to justify this signing. 30-35 goals, 50-60 points, a team tougher to play against and a hopefully a season in the positive of the +/- column. $5.25 million would seem more justified if he acheives this type of production. He would have to maintain this level of production for a few years for us to look back and say definitively, he earned this contract. I am not betting against him acheiving those stats, but those would all be career stat increases and he does have that potential.

Bernier signed for 3 years at $3.0 million isn't a horrible signing if they truly believe he is a capable #1 going forward. I compared it to Emery's signing which looks like a steal, but Emery will likely cash in at a higher amount at the end of the 1 year contract, if he can hold the #1 in Philly and with the stats/wins I expect of him. If he does find success early I expect a renewal contract from 2-4 years in length, between $3.5-4.5 million. So in a way Bernier could be locked for less over the long term.

I cant defend Grabo's buyout or the overpay on Bozak, but Bolland was a great pickup and Komi's buyout was needed. Again positive forward movement for Toronto.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



From Clarkson, I predict - based on his past numbers, and his potential linemates, coupled with it being a new team . . . my "stats plus gut" preditction: 28g, 15a, 43 pts
At worst, I'll be satisfied with 20 goals, 15 assists.

But honestly, I haven't spoken with one decently reasonable Leaf fan yet that EXPECTS 30 goals from Clarkson. I can see him getting it, it's a possibility . . . but really, it's more about the protection and space he will create for his linemates, and picking up the garbage goals at the net and causing traffic. He's a perfect guy (on paper, we'll see in real life) for Kadri and Lupul, who both like quick passing plays and who will both have the puck the large majority of time.

And for the record . . . I never DEFENDED any signing - I, just as you did, gave my opinion on the merits of the player, and the merits of the contract. As clear as can be in black and white, you can look back where I say it's too much money for too long a term . . . one always overpays in free agency for a guy that a bunch of teams want. And, just because he might be overpaid on too long of a contract, doesn't mean he won't be a valuable addition.

I think he's gonna be a very solid addition, and a much better suited player for who he is replacing.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  20:12:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, those Phaneuf to the oilers rumors won`t go away......apparently C. Mac really wants Phaneuf to play for the oilers......i`ve read this on several hockey sites, its not just one sports writer stirring the pot......its on bleacher report now.

If this happens, what would the oilers likely give up ??....what about Ales Hemsky ??....what position does he normally play ?...apparently he is over-paid in oiler fans eyes...well so is D. Phaneuf , in most leaf fans eyes.....maybe something with a bit of tweaking will happen here.

I said when D. Eakins went there ( with insight on TO`s youth ) something will happen between the oilers and TO....i still believe something will....you have 2 GM`s looking to make an impact on their teams ( implace their handprint if you will ) and 2 teams in opposite conferences to boot...watch for a deal.

I`ve got a feeling that Nonis may move Morgan . R in a bigger deal , one which will involve a 1st line center coming to the leafs......i wouldn`t be shocked if Nonis moves Morgan . R and Kadri together to obtain a 1st line star center.
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