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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2017 : 17:00:12
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Who's going to win Coach of the Year?
My vote is for Torts! But if he wins, will he get fired next year? The last winner lasted only 11 months afterwards (Bob Hartley).
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2017 : 20:26:10
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| A few of recent Jack Adams winners, lost there position after the next season. Not wishes ill for Torts, but he would be a good candidate. Trots, Torts, Boucher, Mclellan would be up there in my final 4 for the award |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2017 : 17:37:49
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It would have to be John Tortorella or Bruce Boudreau at this point. Both teams have gone from next to nothing and are having incredible seasons barely even wavering. Almost wire to wire success. And for the Wild to not falter after their hot streak ended must have taken some great coaching.
I would have considered Edmonton's Todd Mclellen earlier in the season except that since the All Star break the team has only seemed average at best. Not a good way to go into the awards season. Some might also argue that McDavid was driving the team's success, not necessarily the coach. At any rate, I wouldn't consider him at this point. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2017 : 18:16:09
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I think it'll be Torts. Taking the Blue Jackets from 27th overall last season, to in the running for the Presidents Trophy this year.
Others deserving of consideration include McLellan, Boudreau, Boucher, Sullivan, Babcock, and Trotz. |
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The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2017 : 09:58:42
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IMO Tort's deserves it hands down for what he's done in Columbus this year. NO ONE could have predicted the season they are having.
but I'm gonna give some major love to both Boucher and Babcock for what they've done in OTT and TOR respectively.
let's be honest here, outside of Karlsson OTT isn't the most talented team in the league, but they just seem to go out there and win on a very consistent basis. and full credit to Boucher and his staff for teaching Karlsson how to play a full 200 ft game. I don't watch OTT very much, but from what I've read in various media outlets his defensive game has come a very long way this year.
and Babcock taking a 30th place team into playoff contention within one season, and doing it with a bunch of rookies, is something you cannot ignore. the addition of Andersen helps of course, but he deserves full credit for what he's done with Matthews, Marner, etc. and also for turning Kadri into a full force two-way center. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2017 : 09:04:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
IMO Tort's deserves it hands down for what he's done in Columbus this year. NO ONE could have predicted the season they are having.
but I'm gonna give some major love to both Boucher and Babcock for what they've done in OTT and TOR respectively.
let's be honest here, outside of Karlsson OTT isn't the most talented team in the league, but they just seem to go out there and win on a very consistent basis. and full credit to Boucher and his staff for teaching Karlsson how to play a full 200 ft game. I don't watch OTT very much, but from what I've read in various media outlets his defensive game has come a very long way this year.
and Babcock taking a 30th place team into playoff contention within one season, and doing it with a bunch of rookies, is something you cannot ignore. the addition of Andersen helps of course, but he deserves full credit for what he's done with Matthews, Marner, etc. and also for turning Kadri into a full force two-way center.
Wow - I totally agree!
Honestly, it's so tough to vote for best coach . . . because the only real barometer is the team's performance, and that is just not totally under a coach's control. What's the saying - show me a great goalie, and I'll show you a great coach? It's dead on.
Where's Tortella without a hot goalie? Babcock? Boucher? You get what I'm saying . . . and honestly, the goalie is the one and only player that honestly gets very little direct coaching from the head coach. Next to none (if you don't believe me, google Babcock's comments on coaches and goalies).
All that being said . . . I would personally give the Adams to Babcock, based on the fact that I believe this would be the first time in the history of the modern NHL where a former LAST PLACED TEAM with 6 rookies in the core - three of them being the top 3 players basically - somehow managed to get in the playoffs the next year (I am assuming they'll make it in at this point, hopefully I didn't just jinx it). I mean, it's beyond unprecedented.
Ottawa was already considered as a threat to make the playoffs. And despite everything going wrong for Columbus last year, smart hockey people know that they had already been poised to be a playoff team (albeit, perhaps not such a solid one).
But I'd probably have Torts in there in 2nd place.
And then I'd give 3rd to Quenneville. Because I think it's absolutely a wonder how he can keep that small core motivated, put in all the new excess parts year after year, and here they are again, one of the front running contenders this year. That's just phenomenal.
That's who I'd have in order: Babcock (TOR), Tortorella (CLB), Quenneville (CHI)
But we all know that isn't happening.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2017 : 11:07:43
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Anyone want to revise there position for Jack Adams trophy with only a few games to play left in the season.
Babcock to me is a favorite, only if his team makes it to the playoffs. If they miss, I think he does too. To be honest, saying he took a last place team to the playoffs, isn't the greatest barometer for this award, because Toronto may have finished last, but they actively dove for last, not that the team was last place talented. The reason he deserves it, Kadri, Matthews, Marner, Anderson and Nylander are playing very good and meaningful hockey. The reason he doesn't deserve it, is the rest of the team is mediocre and even with all that talent in there top 5 players, they could and may miss the playoffs.
Torts deserves a hard look, but the comment that his goaltender deserves it more, is valid. But how can you overlook the marked improvement everywhere that this team has done, year over year. And unlike Toronto, this team last year was a firesale, with the same roster, without actually putting effort into being a bad team. He may not win but he deserves consideration.
I think Boucher deserves some recognition, but I don't want to be a homer and list all the reasons why. He turned my team from a possession bad team that couldn't win when it mattered, into a possession bad team that can win games. The turn around for the goalies has been huge, but unlike some other teams, the credit has gone to limiting high danger scoring opportunities and having his superstars be the best shot blockers in the league. They may not have the biggest swing in the standings from last year, but I dare you to find a team with a higher personel turnover on the ice and front office. Like Babcock, his consideration dies if his team misses the playoffs. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 04/06/2017 11:12:44 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2017 : 16:19:07
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| IMO, the only way Torts doesn't win this is if being him, influences voters. I love the success TO has had with Babcock, and they WILL make the dance, but c'mon, what Columbus has done, challenging for the top spot, is remarkable. They are led by Cam Atkinson? Yikes |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2017 : 12:33:45
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| Last night was a huge blow to Toronto's chances. Babcock needs one point in 2 games or the only Jack he will be holding at the end of the year will have the last name Daniels. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 04/07/2017 12:35:40 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2017 : 10:07:01
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Here is some food for thought. Year over Year comparison 15/16 seasons to 16/17 season.
Biggest improvement in wins = CBJ and EDM with 16 each (TO and Minny next most with 11)
Biggest Improvement in losses = EDM with 17 fewer then CBJ with 16 and TO with 15
TO had more more OTL than last year. Biggest turn around of any time
Biggest improvement in Pts = EDM with 33, then CBJ with 32, then TO with 26.
Biggest Improvement in goal differential = CBJ with 87, EDM with 77, TO with 57.
My point behind this is, Torts is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams, Babcock is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams. Why is no one even including McLennan in the conversation for Jack Adams?? Leigh is the only person to make mention of that but claimed they were average since the All Star Break?? If you break the Oiler season up into 20 game chunks (the last being 22 games) the Oilers won 11, 9, 12, and 15 games respectively. They have been essentially the same team all years.
All I am saying is that I think there is a pretty big lack of respect for the HC in Edmonton to not even being in the conversation considering his team improved the same or better and has been consistent all year.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2017 : 12:48:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here is some food for thought. Year over Year comparison 15/16 seasons to 16/17 season.
Biggest improvement in wins = CBJ and EDM with 16 each (TO and Minny next most with 11)
Biggest Improvement in losses = EDM with 17 fewer then CBJ with 16 and TO with 15
TO had more more OTL than last year. Biggest turn around of any time
Biggest improvement in Pts = EDM with 33, then CBJ with 32, then TO with 26.
Biggest Improvement in goal differential = CBJ with 87, EDM with 77, TO with 57.
My point behind this is, Torts is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams, Babcock is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams. Why is no one even including McLennan in the conversation for Jack Adams?? Leigh is the only person to make mention of that but claimed they were average since the All Star Break?? If you break the Oiler season up into 20 game chunks (the last being 22 games) the Oilers won 11, 9, 12, and 15 games respectively. They have been essentially the same team all years.
All I am saying is that I think there is a pretty big lack of respect for the HC in Edmonton to not even being in the conversation considering his team improved the same or better and has been consistent all year.
I had him for consideration in my predictions on Mar 11th. I don't think he will win, but I had him in my top 4. The reason I don't have him winning, is his team minus McDavid is average to below average. I hope we don't see a McDavid'less Oilers in these playoffs, because they won't do well. If you could give the Jack Adams to Mcdavid, he would replace McLelland in consideration. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2017 : 10:02:23
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The Oilers without McDavid are not as good. Not argument. But let's not forget Talbot and Draisaitl. And, I would argue that the Oilers have as good of a standing defensively (GA) than offensively (GF) in the NHL. McDavid isn't a poor defensive player but he doesn't likely contribute that much defensively. I don't think too many, if any, hockey folks would have predicted the group in Edmonton to be a top 10 defensive team.
I know McLennan will likely get shade because it's easy to point to McDavid, but the team is more than McDavid. He stirs the drink but he doesn't do it all himself. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2017 : 10:23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The Oilers without McDavid are not as good. Not argument. But let's not forget Talbot and Draisaitl. And, I would argue that the Oilers have as good of a standing defensively (GA) than offensively (GF) in the NHL. McDavid isn't a poor defensive player but he doesn't likely contribute that much defensively. I don't think too many, if any, hockey folks would have predicted the group in Edmonton to be a top 10 defensive team.
I know McLennan will likely get shade because it's easy to point to McDavid, but the team is more than McDavid. He stirs the drink but he doesn't do it all himself.
I am not knocking the team, but when McDavid is on the ice, the Ice slants possessionally towards the other end. With McDavid off, the ice slants towards Talbot. I will give Talbot his due and applaud the effort the GM gave to improving the players on the ice, being way better defensively than last years. But again, with McDavid off the ice this team would have a hard time winning a playoff round. I Think McLelland did a wonderful job, but he doesn't deserve the Jack Adams more than Torts who did a wholesale culture change with roughly the same roster. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 04/12/2017 10:24:45 |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2017 : 13:17:06
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M vote is
1 Babcock
2 Torts
3 Mclennan
Babcock first because he accomplished this feat with prob the WORST defensive core assembled ive seen in my life . amazing |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2017 : 10:54:08
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Fair or not, it's the McDavid factor for sure. It could also be the fact that we've been waiting for 4 or 5 years for the Oilers to finally take that next step. Is it the coach who finally figured it out? You could argue that? But again I think most lean to the McDavid influence.
Draisaitl has looked great but he also played a ton with McDavid. Talbot was much better than I expected too but in reality, you take away 97 and you may have just taken a playoff spot too? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 10:24:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here is some food for thought. Year over Year comparison 15/16 seasons to 16/17 season.
Biggest improvement in wins = CBJ and EDM with 16 each (TO and Minny next most with 11)
Biggest Improvement in losses = EDM with 17 fewer then CBJ with 16 and TO with 15
TO had more more OTL than last year. Biggest turn around of any time
Biggest improvement in Pts = EDM with 33, then CBJ with 32, then TO with 26.
Biggest Improvement in goal differential = CBJ with 87, EDM with 77, TO with 57.
My point behind this is, Torts is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams, Babcock is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams. Why is no one even including McLennan in the conversation for Jack Adams?? Leigh is the only person to make mention of that but claimed they were average since the All Star Break?? If you break the Oiler season up into 20 game chunks (the last being 22 games) the Oilers won 11, 9, 12, and 15 games respectively. They have been essentially the same team all years.
All I am saying is that I think there is a pretty big lack of respect for the HC in Edmonton to not even being in the conversation considering his team improved the same or better and has been consistent all year.
These are really good points. And I have to say, I agree that Edmonton hasn't gotten the respect it deserved for Jack Adams consideration (McLennan).
It's too easy to say it's all McDavid, when we all have observed many a team with one excellent superstar totally fail. And those same naysayers might forget that even for a great player - a generational player - the coach can have a huge impact on success. Who the linemates are, systems that fit, coaching the player to the system, etc etc. Like I said earlier, when it comes to a team that gets in only because of a super hot goalie, that's not coaching.
BUT, when it comes to skaters and systems, and especially I think taking an unfamiliar group and making them gel together - that's coaching.
I stand corrected Beans, I will put McLennan in 2nd place after Babcock in my vote for Jack Adams.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 14:28:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here is some food for thought. Year over Year comparison 15/16 seasons to 16/17 season.
Biggest improvement in wins = CBJ and EDM with 16 each (TO and Minny next most with 11)
Biggest Improvement in losses = EDM with 17 fewer then CBJ with 16 and TO with 15
TO had more more OTL than last year. Biggest turn around of any time
Biggest improvement in Pts = EDM with 33, then CBJ with 32, then TO with 26.
Biggest Improvement in goal differential = CBJ with 87, EDM with 77, TO with 57.
My point behind this is, Torts is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams, Babcock is getting a lot of talk about Jack Adams. Why is no one even including McLennan in the conversation for Jack Adams?? Leigh is the only person to make mention of that but claimed they were average since the All Star Break?? If you break the Oiler season up into 20 game chunks (the last being 22 games) the Oilers won 11, 9, 12, and 15 games respectively. They have been essentially the same team all years.
All I am saying is that I think there is a pretty big lack of respect for the HC in Edmonton to not even being in the conversation considering his team improved the same or better and has been consistent all year.
Totally fair points Beans. And no doubt Mclennan will get some votes and rightly so. But Columbus and Minnesota barely have a 60 point getter each in their lineups, let alone a 100 pointer. It's cold in McDavid's shadow. Votes for sure, but no victory. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2017 : 14:54:09
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I would agree that McLellan is unlikely to win but I am surprised by the lack of even being in most conversations. I get the McDavid impact and I also get that teams in the West also fight the bias that most of the voters are in the East and don't see as many West teams as East teams.
I would still ask my learned PUH brethren what about the defensive side of the puck?? The Oilers had the 7th best GA in the NHL after being near the bottom of the league last season. Comparing last year to this year, the Leafs improved in GA by 4, Edm by 33, and CBJ by a wopping 57! Taking nothing away from Torts, I think he deserves the award. But why does Babcock get so much love when the Oilers improved by more in virtually every category both offensively and defensively?? Did McDavid's 100 pts reducing the other team's scoring by nearly 1/2 a goal a game?? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2017 : 07:55:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I would agree that McLellan is unlikely to win but I am surprised by the lack of even being in most conversations. I get the McDavid impact and I also get that teams in the West also fight the bias that most of the voters are in the East and don't see as many West teams as East teams.
I would still ask my learned PUH brethren what about the defensive side of the puck?? The Oilers had the 7th best GA in the NHL after being near the bottom of the league last season. Comparing last year to this year, the Leafs improved in GA by 4, Edm by 33, and CBJ by a wopping 57! Taking nothing away from Torts, I think he deserves the award. But why does Babcock get so much love when the Oilers improved by more in virtually every category both offensively and defensively?? Did McDavid's 100 pts reducing the other team's scoring by nearly 1/2 a goal a game??
I would agree with you that McLellan (not Mclennan folks!  ) is more deserving than Babcock. Again though, as I said above, fair or not, the McDavid factor as well as the expectations behind the Oilers after all the top picks likely factors in. Do I think that's fair? No. But if you're asking "why", then I think you need to consider these points. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2017 : 11:06:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I would agree that McLellan is unlikely to win but I am surprised by the lack of even being in most conversations. I get the McDavid impact and I also get that teams in the West also fight the bias that most of the voters are in the East and don't see as many West teams as East teams.
I would still ask my learned PUH brethren what about the defensive side of the puck?? The Oilers had the 7th best GA in the NHL after being near the bottom of the league last season. Comparing last year to this year, the Leafs improved in GA by 4, Edm by 33, and CBJ by a wopping 57! Taking nothing away from Torts, I think he deserves the award. But why does Babcock get so much love when the Oilers improved by more in virtually every category both offensively and defensively?? Did McDavid's 100 pts reducing the other team's scoring by nearly 1/2 a goal a game??
I would agree with you that McLellan (not Mclennan folks! ) is more deserving than Babcock. Again though, as I said above, fair or not, the McDavid factor as well as the expectations behind the Oilers after all the top picks likely factors in. Do I think that's fair? No. But if you're asking "why", then I think you need to consider these points.
haha I had McLellan written in my last one then saw Beans put the nn's in and changed it (also see my original post) Beans is never wrong about his Oilers! LOL! Damn you Beans! |
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Jack Adams predictions 
