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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2007 : 05:26:08
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There are 12 players in the HHOF who were not born in North America.
They are:
Thomas Dunderdale - Australia
Joseph Henry Hall - England
Jari Pekka Kurri - Finland
Viacheslav Fetisov - Russia
Valeri Kharlamov - Russia
David (Sweeney) Schriner - Russia
Vladislav Aleksandrovich Tretiak - Russia
Charles Robert Gardiner - Scotland(Nice to see that)
Stan Mikita - Slovakia
Peter Stastny - Slovakia
Anders Borje Salming - Sweden
Rod Corry Langway - Taiwan
Do you think there are some who aren't in the Hall that should be? Who are the players you think will be inducted in the not too distant future and who do you think should be? Make the distinction.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 06:47:51
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I think the fact that before the mid-80's, there were only a handful of European Hockey Players. Since then, there have been many more.
I'm sure there are others, but the two that come to mind that will do into the Hall are Hasek and Fedorov. Those two are shoe in's the way I look at it.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 07:01:07
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| Bure, Mogilny, Selanne and Yammy Yagr should all be locks. Sundin, should also get in. |
Edited by - MSC on 11/04/2007 07:18:13 |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 07:13:56
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David (Sweeney) Schriner must have been the first Russian born player to win the NHL scoring race...
I would have thought that there would have been more non North Amaerican players in the HHOF, I think that will be changing over the next few years...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 07:26:39
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If it were up to me, I would put Tikkanen in. Most people will probably think, what is Willus smoking now, but I would. He was a roleplayer who played his role so well he deserves to be recognized for it. Much like Gainey was recognized for the role he played. If you need a pest and a shadow he's the guy(or was). He was good enough to be effective against Gretzky in the 89-90 playoffs. That's saying something.
Fedorov is a lock. He's had easily the best career of any Russian.
Bure I'm not sure about. I think I'd put him in. I can't think of many better goal scorers.
I think he will make it in as well.
Forsberg will go in. Rightly so. Oft injured but when he's healthy he dominates games.
Lidstrom will obviously go in.
Jagr is a lock obviously as well.
Hasek will make it in for sure.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
Edited by - willus3 on 11/04/2007 07:27:59 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 07:49:29
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I missed Jagr, Forsberg, Lidstrom, and Sundin. Mogilny?? Maybe but I doubt it. Bure, ya. Only 4 guys with 200 or more goals have a higher GPA average for a career today than Bure (Lemieux/Bossy/Denneny/Dy)
Tikkanen invented the pest role that so many player today have adpoted. And one on one, Tikkanen was one of the best shadow/shutdown guys in history. Agreed Willus, Tiks for the Hall!
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 08:10:41
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| Forsberg and Lidstrom without a doubt. I didn't leave them out on purpose, lack of sleep I guess. I think if Mogilny only played that one 76 goal season and then got injured that's enough to get him in the Hall. |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 09:10:03
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| Kovalev could have if he wasn't a lazy piece of sh**! And I believe Sundin will get in the HHOF for sure. 500 goals over 1000 points. And if Daryl Sitler made it in because he was the leading point getter for the Leafs that obviously makes Sundin get into the Hall. |
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Greg Smith
Rookie
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 10:46:22
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A few more notable non-north american players who I think have a chance.
Alexander Ovechkin, if he continues with his amazing scoring
Marian Hossa, (same thing)
Ilya Kovalchuk, if he progresses more.
Daniel Alfredsson, probably not, but you'll be surprised
Nicklas Backstrom, the next star goalie after Bordeur and Luongo
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 17:14:46
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I don't think Tretiak should be in and Paul Henderson not. Tretiak was great for 8 games, and so was Henderson. Other than that, Tretiak played extremely well in a career against minor leaguers. Big whoop. But yes, he's in - shouldn't be.
That should start some controversy.
Willus...Tikkanen? What are you smoking? As an old Oil/Tik fan, I appreciate it, but the HHOF is above Tik.
Forsberg, Lidstrom, Sundin, Jagr - locks.
Federov - probably, but he hasn't been good since Clinton was president, guys.
Greg Smith, you do like to plan ahead, huh? I like Alfredsson and Ovechkin as possibles someday. Backstrom - wayyyy too early. Kovalchuk and Hossa - I pray that it will never happen. Kovalchuk...yech...the only guy I hate more than Gonchar. |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 11/04/2007 17:16:28 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 19:43:05
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You just predicted a 29 year old sophmore goalie to make the HHOF? If I was a betting man I would love to get some of that action.
I think that if Nik Antropov improves his play and scores 100pts for the rest of his career he'll go to the HHOF. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 19:53:27
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| Sweet Jesus, Radulov just had a two point night. If he keeps that up reserve his seat now. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 19:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
I think that if Nik Antropov improves his play and scores 100pts for the rest of his career he'll go to the HHOF.
I think if Nik Antropov improves his play enough to get 100 points a year and entry into the HHOF, I will scale Mount Everest in my underwear, and plant a Leaf flag on top. I'm willing to put that in writing. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 20:10:18
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| I think I'd be stanging right beside you with tears in my eyes and a copy of "Cricket for Dummies" because I definatly couldn't watch hockey ever again if Antropov made the HHOF. |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 21:18:45
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Hasek, Fedorov, Bure, Lidstrom, Selanne, Forsberg, and Jagr ought to be in there.
____________________
Whether in hockey or politics, the Senators have always annoyed me |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2007 : 21:22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
I don't think Tretiak should be in and Paul Henderson not. Tretiak was great for 8 games, and so was Henderson. Other than that, Tretiak played extremely well in a career against minor leaguers. Big whoop. But yes, he's in - shouldn't be.
Yeah, and he got his butt kicked by a bunch of college kids one fateful February night in 1980.
____________________
Whether in hockey or politics, the Senators have always annoyed me |
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Greg Smith
Rookie
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 14:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
Greg Smith, you do like to plan ahead, huh? I like Alfredsson and Ovechkin as possibles someday. Backstrom - wayyyy too early. Kovalchuk and Hossa - I pray that it will never happen. Kovalchuk...yech...the only guy I hate more than Gonchar.
Planning ahead is just one of the things the NHL has given me over the years. Backstrom, too early I guess, but I like him. Pascal Leclaire is hot right now too, but I don't like him. No way he'll make it. (plus he's but ugly) I've seen Backstrom play live, and wow he's amazing. Ovechkin too. Ovechkin has one of the hardest shots I've ever seen. I've also played with guys like Macinnis, so for me to say something like that, some of you must think I'm smoking something.
And MSC, I'll be dead by the time Backstrom retires and has a chance for the HHOF, but in a couple of years, if Backsrtom holds strong, I'll bet on it.
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2007 : 23:50:25
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| Well that's no fair...That's like saying if New England is ahead at half time during the super bowl I'll bet on them....or being able to put more money on the table after you get a 21 in black jack. |
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Guest9795
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Posted - 11/06/2007 : 06:10:17
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Agreeing with most here, locks to make the HHOF:
Jagr, Forsberg, Lidstrom, Sundin, Hasek, Selanne
Well into their career, should make it in my opinion:
Alfredsson, Naslund
I'd put money on these young guys getting into the hall:
Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Malkin, Stastny, Kiprusoff (no that young, but still many years ahead of him)
Just might squeeze in eventually:
S.Koivu, O.Jokinen
I really, really hope Federov doesn't get in, but he will. A good argument can be made for Bure, and I can't really disagree with him going into the hall. Mogilny should miss the cut I think, but he's going to get in probably. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 07:33:25
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| I think Naslund will be lucky to even have his name mentioned for the Hall. I really can't imagine him making the cut. Wait do you mean Mats Naslund? Wait it doesn't matter, neither get in. |
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Guest8372
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Posted - 11/06/2007 : 10:27:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9795
Agreeing with most here, locks to make the HHOF:
Jagr, Forsberg, Lidstrom, Sundin, Hasek, Selanne
Well into their career, should make it in my opinion:
Alfredsson, Naslund
Why is Sundin a lock and not Alfie? If Sundin is a lock then so should Alfie, unless you have a Toronto bias rule (work for CBC do you?).
Sundin played the NHL earlier than Alfie so he's played in the higher scoring era. If we compare Alfie and Sundin during the same time 95-present here is the stats.
Player: GP, G-A-PTS, +/- 95-present
Sundin: 875, 373-510-883, +95
Alfie: 796, 300-477-777, +130
If you remove Alfie's rookie season where he was the rookie of the year on a very bad (2nd year) expansion team, so 96-present
Sundin: 799, 340-460-800, +87
Alfie: 714, 274-442-716, +148
Looks mighty similar to me. Above is regular season stats.
Playoff stats are eerily similar
Sundin: 83, 35-39-74, +3
Alfie: 99, 43-37-80, +3
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Greg Smith
Rookie
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 14:57:41
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Guest 8372, points don't make a player. If you put it into points Sundin is better that way too though. All those defensive defencemen make the NHL for a reason. Take robyn Regehr for instance. He's a quality player and gets maybe 20 points in a season. He contributes greatly to his team though.
Sundin, along with being increadibly talented point wise, is also a physical, hard-working, gritty (if that is a word) and comes through at key times. Alfredsson does a lot of the same things, just not as well as Sundin does. I'm not saying Alfredsson won't make it, he might. I'm only saying that you can't only compare players point-wise.
After playing in the NHL, it's hard to watch hockey games. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2007 : 17:39:46
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I think the Alfredsson/Sundin comparison is pretty valid. Not only numbers wise, which we all know is considered for HOF players, but the intangibles as well. Both are leaders of their teams and both have meant a ton(if not everything) to their teams in the past 10+ years. Neither have been great playoff performers.
My point is, in my opinion (as a fan of neither team they play on) I see them as similar players. I think if a GM had a choice between the two that it would be a hard pick.
That being said, I think Sundin will get in before Alfredsson. Why?? Where does Sundin play??? Considering that team has not won anything in over 40 years, they sure have a lot of members in the HOF do they not???
Let the attacks begin!
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Guest9778
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Posted - 11/06/2007 : 19:18:39
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I'm actually guest 9795, btw.
To the comments made by 8372 - fair enough, you're right - they ARE much more equal than I had thought at first. Hell, I'm a hockey fan first, and a Leaf fan second, so there's a bias for sure - although Spezza is one of my favourite players. That being said, I'd agree with Beans (no offence taken) and say it's not just the numbers, although the numbers are still better for Sundin (Sundin played for the crap Nordiques, as Alfie played for the crap Sens back in the day - your excusing of early seasons is bad logic).
Sundin will get in first because he's the pride of Toronto. This is unless, of course, Alfie wins a cup in the next couple of years with Ottawa. But no one erases a reputation easily, and Alfie is a hated player by many. Shooting a puck at Nieds in the finals?!? Not making any friends there, and the selection committe WILL remember that, I think.
So, you made a good point, and I think Alfredsson will make it into the HHOF too . . . just after his countryman does for the blue and white.
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Guest8372
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Posted - 11/07/2007 : 11:13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9778
I'm actually guest 9795, btw.
That being said, I'd agree with Beans (no offence taken) and say it's not just the numbers, although the numbers are still better for Sundin (Sundin played for the crap Nordiques, as Alfie played for the crap Sens back in the day - your excusing of early seasons is bad logic).
So, you made a good point, and I think Alfredsson will make it into the HHOF too . . . just after his countryman does for the blue and white.
Alfie and Sundin are very similar.
As for excusing Sundin's earlier numbers, was to compare the same era of play as Alfie. Once, I did this I've basically removed Sundin's bad (relative to what he did) rookie season. So if I remove Alfie's bad (again relative) rookie season, they are quite similar.
I think Alfie played on a worst team than Sundin did in their respective rookie team. The players of any name back then Daigle and Yashin for Ottawa. Sundin had Sakic and Nolan to play with. Who had the crappier team? No doubts about it, the Nordiques were pretty bad the season Mats got there, but Ottawa was in much worse shape for Alfie's rookie season. |
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Non-North Americans in the HHOF 
