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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
 Posted - 11/15/2007 : 15:39:33
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How happy are you guys/girls to see Barry Bonds getting indicted?
I hate this guy. Throughout his whole carreer he was perhaps the rudest player in the league.....And anybody out there knows he's juiced up...He was a stick for most of his carreer, and then all of a sudden(when he's over the hill), he's ripped and breaking every record...I have been waiting for this day for a long time!
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
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Ripley
PickupHockey Pro
USA
365 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 16:54:31
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I'll take the bait IHC,
I don't think he was any more juiced up than the other modern day big time sluggers. He has played within the unwritten rules of baseball and it is only because of the advent of the internet and massive broadcasting that he is being crucified. Who cares!!!!???!!!! Professional athletes juice...it's a fact of the matter. When the stakes are as high as they are these days (multi-million dollar contracts) they need to get an edge and if one guys starts, the rest need to follow. Now of course there are elite athletes that will never have to go to those extremes and power to them, but many more do in oder to compete, and many many more who won't...and they will never be the super stars! I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying that Bonds, and many others like him, are a product of their environment. An environment where we fans love to rip them apart when they are on top and then rip them apart even more when they fall. We are to blame as much as Bonds.
And to your other comment about him being a rude...you're right, he's a jackass! |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 19:24:30
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Thrilled. And not because he was probably juiced. Because he's a knob.
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Guest8815
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Posted - 11/15/2007 : 20:54:38
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| His Record should be stripped. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 21:14:51
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Last I checked there aren't to many drugs out there that help your hand eye coordination. Bonds is the greatest baseball player in the history of the game. There's no if's and's or but's about it. All the steroid allegations are still just that, allegations. How he acted in the dressing room doesn't diminish what he did on the field. Bonds is just one name in a long line of degenerate baseball greats.....Ty Cobb was a racist, Pete Rose was a gambler, Babe Ruth was an a womanizing drunk, David Justice married then beat up Halle Berry. Don't get me started on pitchers and the cheating they do, the list goes on and on.
Now before you misinterpet me the names I listed are some of my favorites. My rec room is a shrine to the Babe and Rose(along with Orr, Mickey Mantle, Wlater Payton, Brian Urlacher and myself). The point is baseball is a greasy game where cheaters always win. That's one of the few things that make it interesting.
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Kyrens gpa
Top Prospect
14 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 22:14:16
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| I am with msc,Bonds is one of the top baseball players of all time. His home run record will stand for a very long time and I don't know if his 500 and 500 will ever be broken and lets not forget that he broke the season homerun record after MM. Answer me this ,in this day and age of drug testing,why,has he not been suspended for usage? To tell me that steriods or any drug will allow me to hit 1 home run let alone over 700 I would say what a joke. The media has created the monster in the dressing room,since he was a teenager, but last time I checked not one player hit a homerun from the dressing room. He may be arrogant and aloof and maybe even queer but lets not get all screwed up over what the media wants or does,with a bat in his hand, I think he is right near the top of all time greats, his only down side is no championship. NO ASTERICKS................... |
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mhtigers_10
Top Prospect
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 22:17:53
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MSC do u seriously think barry bonds is the best player in the game? I personally think Alex Rodriguez is the best player in the game. I'll agree with you baseball is a greasy game but i don't think bonds is the best player
Marc Keller |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2007 : 23:07:05
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Nolan Ryan...
Enough said...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 00:21:41
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Do I think Barry is the greatest of all time? yes. Do I think he's the best player right now? No, he's 43 years old cut him some slack. I definatly think barring injury A-Rod will pass Barry in home runs. Bonds was just more of a complete player in his prime. I don't know about all of you but I remember A-Rod being a skinny short stop once upon a time too.
Nolan Ryan? He isn't even the best pitcher of all time let alone best player. How do you compare someone who play once every 5 games to someone who is in the game every single night though? That's like giving the MVP to a DH.
edit - Just did a little research on A-Rod and Barry B
ARod
8 Jul 1994 6'3 205Lbs - http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1994&t=SEA
Now 6'3 225Lbs - http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=121347
Barry Bonds
1986 - 6'2 228Lbs - http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1986&t=PIT
Now - 6'2 240 Lbs - http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188
Barry has gained 12 pounds since he was a 21 year old rookie spread over 21 years of play. ARod has gained 20 pounds since he was a 19 year old rookie spread over 13 years.
Am I going crazy or is ARod bulking up more then Barry? Where are the allegations? Where is the A-Rod bashing?
I love A-Rod and take him on my fantasy teams every chance I get, I just would like to see some fairness when dealing with Barry.
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Edited by - MSC on 11/16/2007 02:08:50 |
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souljah
Top Prospect
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 06:00:00
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
How happy are you guys/girls to see Barry Bonds getting indicted?
I hate this guy. Throughout his whole carreer he was perhaps the rudest player in the league.....And anybody out there knows he's juiced up...He was a stick for most of his carreer, and then all of a sudden(when he's over the hill), he's ripped and breaking every record...I have been waiting for this day for a long time!
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
good i am happy 2 and for lying and coming back to the game juiced up again he should go 2 jail lol |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 08:17:59
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Nolan Ryan? He isn't even the best pitcher of all time let alone best player. How do you compare someone who play once every 5 games to someone who is in the game every single night though? That's like giving the MVP to a DH.
At the age of 46 he was still striking out players like he was 21, and still throwing 98 MPH fastballs, without "the juice" ...
5714 SO more than a 1000 ahead of Clemens, and Johnson.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 08:26:10
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Height, and weight stats are misleading.
When you are young they add Lbs, and inches to your stats to make you look bigger.
When your old they take Lbs away so you seem lighter...
[img]http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc49/PuckNuts_photos/Bonds.jpg[/img]
12 Lbs my butt...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 08:49:26
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hahahahha...ok....
Nolan Ryan
324 wins - tied for 14th all time (Wow) and it only took him 27 seasons!!!
0 Cy Youngs
0 World Series rings
292 Loses - 3 most in the history of baseball. At least that was spread over 27 seasons.
.503 career winning percentage (WOW again)
5714 K's - Can't deny it, that's impressive
Ranked 41st best player of all time by the sporting news panel...let me repeat that one...Forty First(40 away from the number one spot)
2795 Career walks
1580 - Roger Clemens Career walks
1422 - Randy Johnson Career walks
According to my math Ryan ALMOST had as many walks as clemens and johnson combined...
Pucknuts you do however make an interesting arguement for Ryan...Especially since he wasn't on the "Juice" I mean jesus, look at Johnson, that guy is huge. He must be benching close to 500 lbs, if he isn't the poster boy for the "juice" I don't know who is.
Edit - that wasn't fair of me, I forgot to add Ryan's playoff wins. Here it is....
324 Regular season wins
+
1 Playoff win
---------------
325 Career wins....there, that should help your case a bit better.
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Edited by - MSC on 11/16/2007 08:52:09 |
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Guest9253
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Posted - 11/16/2007 : 10:44:37
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| If it weren't for steroids Barry Bonds would be one more forgotten player. He only started getting good numbers at age 35 (when he started taking steroids?) and we would not be talking about best player or whatever if he didnt get so much better. I do not think he should be considered one of the best players if he got there by using steroids -which by the way would make anyone as good as him. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 13:28:46
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Don't forget that for every scientist out there figuring out new chemicals for performance there is one out there figuring out how to mask it.
Plus, I may be wrong, but baseball's steriod policy is not like the Olympic or Cycling policies. They are looking for specific drugs, not everything. Plus, I don't believe there is a consequence for higher than normal testosterone or HGH levels. Just the specific drugs on the "banned" list.
Besides that, these Federal Charges stemming from 4 years of investigations. They are not going to lay charges if they "might" stick. They have something. He is not charges with taking steriods, he's charges with lying under oath. It could be he lied about something other than steriod.
And finally, steriods do more than just get people bigger. There are tons of different drugs with various effects. Think of bodybuilders, sprinters, cyclists, and long distance runners. Some take steriod and all have different effects. I agree that the drug does not help hand eye coordination, but is can increase speed and power. Both make hitting home runs easier.
Ever wonder how, between the ages of 21 and 35, Bonds hit a home run every 15 at bats and between the ages of 36 and 43 he hits a home run every 8 at bats?? I never new coordination got better as you got older.............
I am not saying this proves anything, but there has been questions that had to be answers. Hopefully now we kind find out some truths.
BB a steriod user, I don't know. BB a liar, I have no doubt in my mind.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 14:18:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Don't forget that for every scientist out there figuring out new chemicals for performance there is one out there figuring out how to mask it...
True Beans, but when testers test they don't just test for steroids, they test for masking agents. In fact this is how most cheating athletes get caught. Although the crooks are usually a step ahead, the testers catch up very fast. There is also the fact that when testing they they split the sample into two. The second sample is used for follow up test, and even tested at a later date when the technology has caught up with the cheaters. Of course for the athletes, this is VERY controversial. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 15:30:09
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hm, i think i landed on juiced up baseball . com, not pick up hockey. :x
Irvine |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 15:39:57
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There are also limits on your testosterone levels, if they are to high then you are banned whether they found drugs, or making agents in your system, or not.
Not telling the truth under oath, is a major, major, major offence compared to taking steroids.
You are better off telling the truth, than lying...30 years is a longtime...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Kyrens gpa
Top Prospect
14 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 15:48:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9253
If it weren't for steroids Barry Bonds would be one more forgotten player. He only started getting good numbers at age 35 (when he started taking steroids?) and we would not be talking about best player or whatever if he didnt get so much better. I do not think he should be considered one of the best players if he got there by using steroids -which by the way would make anyone as good as him.
Good numbers at 35 years old??????? How the heck did he get to 762 homers.......how on earth did he happen to get 500 homers and 500 stolen bases, which is also a record A-Rod ain't touching, in less than ten years,guest 9253 you must be on detectable drugs............ |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 15:58:08
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I'm shocked that there is a person left on earth willing to say anything positive about this a-hole. He is a thoroughly disgusting human being, in more ways than can be explained in this forum.
It's funny to me that on this hockey board, we often talk about the "controversial" hockey players like Lindros, Fedorov, Avery, and so on. These guys are ten times the men a guy like Barry Bonds is.
I'd take any Russian hockey player over a guy like Barry Bonds. |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 11/16/2007 15:58:37 |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 16:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts
Nolan Ryan...
Enough said...
Owen Nolan? Oh, sorry, I thought this was a hockey site. Excuse me.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 16:43:25
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Last I checked there aren't to many drugs out there that help your hand eye coordination. Bonds is the greatest baseball player in the history of the game. There's no if's and's or but's about it. All the steroid allegations are still just that, allegations. How he acted in the dressing room doesn't diminish what he did on the field. Bonds is just one name in a long line of degenerate baseball greats.....Ty Cobb was a racist, Pete Rose was a gambler, Babe Ruth was an a womanizing drunk, David Justice married then beat up Halle Berry. Don't get me started on pitchers and the cheating they do, the list goes on and on.
Now before you misinterpet me the names I listed are some of my favorites. My rec room is a shrine to the Babe and Rose(along with Orr, Mickey Mantle, Wlater Payton, Brian Urlacher and myself). The point is baseball is a greasy game where cheaters always win. That's one of the few things that make it interesting.
Thats really poor if you think Barry Bonds is the best player of all time. Some could argue he is not even the best hitter of all time.
Come on. I can not belive that you think he is the best player of all time. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 18:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
I'm shocked that there is a person left on earth willing to say anything positive about this a-hole. He is a thoroughly disgusting human being, in more ways than can be explained in this forum.
It's funny to me that on this hockey board, we often talk about the "controversial" hockey players like Lindros, Fedorov, Avery, and so on. These guys are ten times the men a guy like Barry Bonds is.
I'd take any Russian hockey player over a guy like Barry Bonds.
Well, it depends on what sport we're taking them in for me. :D
Irvine |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 19:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by irvine
quote:
Originally posted by fly4apuckguy
I'm shocked that there is a person left on earth willing to say anything positive about this a-hole. He is a thoroughly disgusting human being, in more ways than can be explained in this forum.
It's funny to me that on this hockey board, we often talk about the "controversial" hockey players like Lindros, Fedorov, Avery, and so on. These guys are ten times the men a guy like Barry Bonds is.
I'd take any Russian hockey player over a guy like Barry Bonds.
Well, it depends on what sport we're taking them in for me. :D
Irvine
Ah, doesn't matter. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 20:07:41
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Barry Bonds didn't get good until he was 35?
He already had 8 100+ RBI seasons, 1700ish runs scored, 494 Hr's, 471 SB's, 1 player of the year, 8 gold gloves, 7 silver sluggers and 9 All Star appearances.
Barry Bonds didn't get good until he was 35? Sorry to repeat that, but it just sounds so stupid I had to try it again. Barry Bonds would have been a first ballott Hall of Famer if he retired at 35.
As far as him not being the best player of all time Leafs Rock Planet you bring up some very interesting points.....Of course some people can argue that he isn't even the best hitter. I can argue that Wayne Gretzky wore womens underwear under his gear and lacked an opposable thumb which was his key to success, that doesn't make it right however.
Oil and Irvine, very good of you to notice and point out that the thread titled "Off Topic" is in fact "Off Topic" I can sleep easier tomorrow knowing you've straigtened it out for everyone.
Pucknuts - I completly understand that height and weight can be fabricated (I was once a 6'10 point guard, I'm 5'9). To be fair to Barry, he isn't the first person who gained weight as he got older. I've known countless people who've gained weight with age, besides %90 of his weight gain is in his gigantic head. If you've found the secret to controlling your metabolism as you age I'd love to hear about it. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 22:13:16
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Hey MSC, you never answered my question in all of that.
How can Barry Bonds, before he turned 35, average one home run every 15 at bats, and between the ages of 35 and 43 he hits one ever 8 at bats??
Show me a study that proves that hand eye coordination, bat speed, and power all increase as a person ages.
You also said he has gain weight, so don't give me that training crap.
How did he get better in the age when most start sliding??
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2007 : 23:34:38
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I personally don't feel he got better after 35. I think he was more of a threat when he was playing gold glove caliber ball in the out field and had a better balance between his stealing, hitting for average and hitting for power.
Now, the reason Barry Bonds went from a 1:15 to a 1:8 at bat to homerun ratio (I'm going to take your word for those numbers because I'm a trusting guy) is simple. Barry developed a better eye, and had more patience at the plate in his later years. This in turn led to more bases on balls. Although he went to the plate the same amount of times as earlier in his career a base on balls doesn't count as an at bat. So he had the same number(ish) of plate appearances and same number of pitches to choose from, he was just more selective. This is what led to a higher at bat to home run ratio. |
Edited by - MSC on 11/21/2007 00:32:33 |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2007 : 23:31:12
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MSC is right in one way...Bonds was a sure fire hall-of-famer pre-steroids (ie, pre-35)..he was a very balanced player, and a great talent...
Still, anyone who denies his steriod-allegations, look no further than his erratic behavior (Chris Benoit-esq...though obviously not as severe)..But also look no further than his high voice, hahaha...That's the sound of a man whos balls have shrunk to the size of electrons.....I'm just joking around..I just wanted an excuse to make fun of his obnoxious voice.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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Guest4739
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Posted - 11/21/2007 : 09:52:33
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I love those side-by-side photos of young Barry and old Barry. It's not because they're the "smoking gun," or the damning photographic evidence some think they are ("Ballooning Barry!") Rather, it's because as an aging man having watched the effects of a modern diet - even a healthy one - I know how bodies have changed over the decades. It's in the diet, and its in the genes.
If you look at Barry's body type (much like Charles Barkley's), his late father's, and the fact he's got a less-than-stellar workout regimen, of course he's grown considerably over the years. And he certainly never got all torn up with muscle, a la Mark McGwyer. Yes he's big, but not out of the realm of a man his age, playing in a largely sedentary sport (sorry baseball fans.)
Now, do I think Barry may have juiced at one point in time... I'm not a complete fool. But putting up simplified side-by-side photos, making him the poster boy for steroids, ignoring his pre-existing incredible athletic talents, that's beyond foolishness. |
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Off topic - Barry Bonds 
