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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2007 : 20:03:55
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Who would you say is the most dominant goal scorer?
I don't think we need to go back to the Charlie Conacher, Cyclone Taylor or Joe Malone days. Say from the 50's on.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2007 : 22:31:15
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You could argue many. Brett Hull is one that comes to mind, but considering the fact that 50% of of his goals came in 6 years out of a 20 year career, I would take him out of the running. Obviously, Gretzky would be an easy pick too, but I still consider him more of a set up man than a pure scorer. And his history was more in finding a way for his team to score, not just scoring himself. Richard comes to mind. He had 14 of 18 seasons over 0.5 goals/game. Bossy would be there as well. The guy played only 10 seasons and had 573 goals. Sick.
My personal pick would be Mario.(Willus, does that surpise you?) He ranks 10th all time in goals, and only 915 reg. season games. Consider the fact that of the guys that have more than 650 goals (10 players in history) the next fewest games played is Brett Hull with 1269. I also have to look back on the games I remember watching. Mario was a threat to score every time he had the puck.
If I have a team and I need a goal, I want Lemieux on the ice, preferable with Gretzky setting him up a la 87 Canada Cup. 
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 08:05:01
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I am going to say Mike Gartner. His entire career was about nothing but goal scoring.
He only had two seasons where he never had 30+ goals, the strike year he had 12 in 38, and his last season he also had 12.
Just think he has 708 goals, and only one 50 goal season...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 13:43:10
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In answering this I thought of the Jimmy Connors "Who would I want to have out there fighting for my life" approach. For tennis, his answer was John McEnroe by the way.
If we are just talking about goal scoring, and nothing else, and it's 4-4 going into overtime in all of their respective games, and I have to choose one, and only one, player to score, OR I WILL DIE, I'll tell you what, I'll pass on Mario, Wayne, Brett, Gartner and all the other great goal scorers.
I'd go with Mike Bossy. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 13:51:12
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In the situation you describe Andy I would take Lemieux. With him it seemed like if he decided he was going to score he would.
Statistically speaking though, I believe the most dominant goal scorer relative to his peers is Bobby Hull. Compare his margin of victory over the next closest in his best seasons and I think you'll see no one actually comes close. It may surprise people. Pucknuts could probably show the statistics. Or anyone else who feels like doing the math.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 13:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
In the situation you describe Andy I would take Lemieux. With him it seemed like if he decided he was going to score he would.
Statistically speaking though, I believe the most dominant goal scorer relative to his peers is Bobby Hull. Compare his margin of victory over the next closest in his best seasons and I think you'll see no one actually comes close. It may surprise people. Pucknuts could probably show the statistics. Or anyone else who feels like doing the math.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
Willus you are like my boss, always giving me work, I will see what I can come up with...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 14:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
In the situation you describe Andy I would take Lemieux. With him it seemed like if he decided he was going to score he would.
But are you going to take the chance that tonight Mario decides he is NOT going to score? Remember, it's your life! You never had to worry about Bossy wavering on that decision (not saying it right but there is a point in there somewhere!).
Good point about Bobby Hull. I never really saw him (in his prime anyway) so it's hard for me to say. I saw Bossy in his prime. He was a goal MACHINE (as you know Willus).
If it's my life and it's a goal I need, Mike is my man!
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 14:24:35
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Well then I think you'd be the best employee I've ever had. Always taking on every challenge and completing them with ease and excellence. Perhaps you deserve a raise? I do appreciate the work you put into this stuff though. Cheers!
I believe it was Andyhack who anointed you the Stats God though. 
Beans I think you're a real close second though.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
Edited by - willus3 on 11/30/2007 14:25:41 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 14:25:10
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OK, I hope I can make this garbage make sense. The first number in brackets is the year, the next number is the number of goals Hull scored that year. The next was Hull's rank in the league in goal scoring, out meaning out of the top 10 in goals.
Now, the Highest or Closest is in the years Hull lead the league in scoring, it's the next highest goal total. In the years he didn't lead the league, it the league's highest total. The final number is the %. For example, in 57-58 Hull scored 13 goals and the league leader was 36 goals, so Hull score 36% of the highest total in the league. On the other hand, if you look at 67-86, Hull scored 44 goals with the next highest being 40, so he was 110% of the next closest guy.
Year Hull Goals Rank Highest or Closest % Difference
(57-58) 13 - Out - 36 - 36.1%
(58-59) 18 - Out - 45 - 40.0%
(59-60) 39 - 1st(Tie) - 34 - 114.7%
(60-61) 31 - 5th - 50 - 62.0%
(61-62) 50 - 1st - 33 - 151.5%
(62-63) 31 - 6th - 38 - 81.6%
(63-64) 43 - 1st - 39 - 110.3%
(64-65) 39 - 2nd - 42 - 92.9%
(65-66) 54 - 1st - 32 - 168.8%
(66-67) 52 - 1st - 35 - 148.6%
(67-68) 44 - 1st - 40 - 110.0%
(68-69) 58 - 1st - 49 - 118.4%
(69-70) 38 - 4th - 43 - 88.4%
(70-71) 44 - 3rd - 76 - 57.9%
(71-72) 50 - 3rd - 66 - 75.8%
(72-73) 51 - 3rd - 61 - 83.6%
(73-74) 53 - 2nd - 57 - 93.0%
(74-75) 77 - 1st - 54 - 142.6%
(75-76) 53 - 4th - 71 - 74.6%
(76-77) 21 - Out - 70 - 30.0%
(77-78) 46 - 5th - 75 - 61.3%
He also played in the WHA between 72 and 78. Not sure if that has anything to do with anything.
He was one of the best in the league in his day, some could argue the best of his day. But, I don't see his margin of victory that high with the exception of 4 seasons where he was more than 140% of the next closest guy.
I also have nothing to compare it to. I have some time this week end, the wife is going to see her Mother, so I will take a look at some other years and leaders and see what it looks like.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 11/30/2007 14:26:56 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 14:30:41
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Beans, nice work.
I'd like it if you could show as a percentage how much Hull outscored the closest guy though.
There should be a few seasons where he was about 60% higher than the closest.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 14:33:45
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Willus, that exactly what this is. For example, 65-66 Hull scored 54 goals. The next closest was 32. So Hull what 168% of the next closest guy. So he outscored him by 68%.
That's what I am saying. Hull lead a league(not the NHL specifically) 8 times, 4 of them being by more than 40%. In 21 years, he was out of the top ten 3 times, and no worse than 6th the other 18 times.
Definately near the top in my books. I still want to look at other years and what the difference between 1st and 2nd is.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 15:17:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Willus, that exactly what this is. For example, 65-66 Hull scored 54 goals. The next closest was 32. So Hull what 168% of the next closest guy. So he outscored him by 68%.
That's what I am saying. Hull lead a league(not the NHL specifically) 8 times, 4 of them being by more than 40%. In 21 years, he was out of the top ten 3 times, and no worse than 6th the other 18 times.
Definately near the top in my books. I still want to look at other years and what the difference between 1st and 2nd is.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Ah, you see this is why I don't do stats. 
Are you sure your figures for 61-62 correct?
Here are some numbers I found.
1. Bobby Hull 65-66 69%
2. Brett hull 90-91 69%
3. Bobby Hull 61-62 67%
4. M.Richard 44-45 56%
5. gretzy 83-84 55%
6. Howe 52-53 53%
7. Howe 51-52 52%
8. M.Richard 46-47 50%
9. Bobby hull 66-67 49%
10. esposito 70-71 49%
11. gretzy 81-82 44%
12. Bobby hull (WHA)43%
13. Howe 56-57 33%
14. Esposito 71-72 32%
15 Esposito 73-74 31%
16 brett Hull 91-92 30%
17 Lemieux 87-88 25%
18. M Richard 49-50 23%
19. Lemieux 88-89 21%
20. Bobby Hull 68-69 18%
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
Edited by - willus3 on 11/30/2007 15:20:57 |
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Most dominant goal scorer... 
