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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2007 : 20:42:06
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Everyone gets on Mccabe's case when he cost's the leafs the game but really come on Leafs you need this guy. The Leafs should trade guys like Ponikarovsky and Antropov. It was Funny I think it might of been 2 weeks ago on hockey night in Canada when Belak was in a scrap HNIC showed a clip of the Leafs bench and everone was standing up banging there sticks on the boards when Ponikarovsky is just sitting down not showing any respect to Belak who's trying to spark the team. Don Cherry said that's the Leafs problem they have to many guys like that. I wouldnt agree that they have too many players like that but i think they should maybe trade this guy away for something. Sure he plays well with Sundin but i just think even if the leafs traded him and Antropov for some future players the leafs might have a future. Also get rid of Toskala or Raycroft the leafs need to get some draft picks or there not going anywhere. Im not saying i hate the leafs or that they suck but they got to relize that there not going anywhere unless they rebuild now. If they Rebuild now and start trading away players even if means Sundin, they will have a better chance of turning there team around then if they waited the whole year missed the playoffs then tried to do stuff.
Go Stars
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Edited by - willus3 on 12/03/2007 16:20:45
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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2007 : 20:49:21
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The only reason i didnt say trade mccabe is that teams might not want his salary.
Go Stars |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 05:23:18
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Of course trade McCabe. Nothing against him. Listen the team isn't going to be winning for another five years, guaranteed
By that team he will be to old
Logic compells you to agree: cash in on his lucrative trade bait and snag someone young, talented, and ready to lead a team of five years down the rroad
Kipper for Lundqvist? |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 12:24:34
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You think they haven't tried trading McCabe? I'm sure they have.
For 7.2 mil, who wants him?
GO PREDATORS GO |
Edited by - nashvillepreds on 12/03/2007 12:25:53 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 15:01:53
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I doubt they have.
Ferguson doesn't trade his franchise guys. Think about it. Who has stayed on that team other than Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, Kaberle?
Where's Al Mo? Where's Gary Roberts? Doug Gilmour? Ron Francis? Joe Nieuwendyk? Ed Belfour? Michael Peca? Jyrki Lummer? Aki Berg? Mikael Telqvist? Brian Leetch? The list goes on and on and on
Habs get number 25 this year |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 15:03:09
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You're listing old guys. Most who have retired though.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
Edited by - nashvillepreds on 12/03/2007 15:03:26 |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 16:06:26
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Those weren't his franchise guys, so I guess I do disagree.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 17:18:16
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| Hey Guys, You have my team buried already? The Leafs are not out of the equation yet, by any means. They are rebuilding as we speak. Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Wellwood, White, Steen, Kaberle, Bell, Woznewski, Kronwall, Tlusty etc are all relatively young decent NHL players. We have Pogge and Strallman and others on the Marlies learning their craft and a very good young sniper by the name of Kulemin over in Russia who is already signed for next season. The Marlies are in first place in the AHL which would lead one to believe that we are in pretty good shape. My biggest concern is I do not see a superstar among our current lot and with the departure of Sundin that has me worried? We also have our first round pick in the draft for next year. My main concern is will Ferguson make the right decisions concerning Matts and at the trade deadline? The biggest downfall to date is our inability to win in OT and the shootout. It cost us a playoff spot last year and the problem still exists. If The Leafs were at .500 in that regard they would be in right now? They are not that bad guys!!!! |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 07:34:50
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If you compare them to teams like Washington and Atalnta, sure they're not that bad. compare them right now to the rest of the NHL, they're near the bottom. If the leafs can find a new leader, they better trade Sundin while they can actually get somebody for him. If they keep him to the end of this season, I have a feeling he'll sign somewhere else.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 08:00:08
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With all this trade talk happening, there are a few things that have to be taken into consideration before you decide to make a trade.
1.) Does the player have a no trade, or no movement clause. If he does is he willing to wave the clause? McCabe, Sundin, Kubina, Kaberle, and others have such a clause...
2.) What is the players salary, McCabe makes 7.15 mil for the next 2 seasons, who will want that salary on the books?
3.) What is the players value. Some players are young, and have a good future ahead of them, others are older that may have had a good career, but are past their prime.
When a player is playing bad, or in some fan's minds are playing bad, and you want to trade him what do you think you will get, do you not think that the other teams do not know what is happening around the league.
At this point in time the Leafs have no players that other teams are interested in, salaries are too high, NTC, NMC, players are too old to add value to their team, and the young players on this team are no better than any of the young players on any team...
The Leafs are stuck with what they have, and better find a way to work these players into a winning team...That Maurice's job...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 08:11:52
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Antroman, you said it yourself. There is no superstar in the making anywhere in the Leafs organization. Take a look at the Stanley Cup Champs for the past, well, forever, and I can't think of a team that did not win the Cup with at least 2 players that would be considered superstars.
The Leafs don't even have one if and when Sundin leaves. Not only that, those players you mention, all of them meeting their highest potential, are not a Stanley Cup winning team. I think as a fan that you should be more concerned than you are. Realistically, the Leafs will not even come close to sniffing the Cup in the next 5 years and that's if they start rebuilding today.
And the latest Sundin rumor from out West is that he would be interested in moving to Detroit. There are a ton of Swedes playing in Motor City and they have as good a chance as any for a crack at the Cup.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 12/04/2007 : 08:44:13
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| antroman needs to stop covering up the problems in his team. reality is that they do suck, they have never been good in 40 years, and they do need to rebuild. all the guys antroman was talking about were your typical selfish russian players who are always projected to have some sort of good skill but never pan out to anything. they need canadians and more of them. antropov is a little pusssy, always has been. same goes for ponikarovsky, a p****. so is wellwood. they need strong young canadian talent like the oilers have. |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 09:05:01
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Hey Beans,
That is basically what I said. Our nucleus of good young players is good. You can have stars but you need a good core of foot soldiers or a base if you will. The team has been transitioning through the early schedule but seem to be finding themselves over the last number of games. No, they do not have a championship team at this moment but I was really trying to just quell so much negative criticism which comes mostly from the Leaf haters group and based more on negativity towards the team instead of objectivity. The Leafs do need an upgrade in the star category for sure. I think some of the Leafs detractors just want everybody in the Leaf heirarchy fired because they are hoping the next group will be worse? I agree, they suck compared to a few of the better clubs but they really are not that bad. They are trying to re-build and at the same time trying to make the playoffs which does not always work but I do think they are on the right track. Making the eighth spot would do all the young players in the organization the world of good by the experience they would get from it but on the otherhand they would lose the high draft pick. Matts Sundin has a no trade clause and has stated on a number of occasions he wants to finish his career in Toronto. Matt's is not saying but this could be his final year in the NHL. He might agree to go to another team but it will cost the Leafs a large stipend to break the no-trade clause. He could also go as a rent a player and sign back as a free agent next season. I think it is all going to come down to where the team is at when the trade deadline comes around next spring. As for this juncture in the schedule I will stick to what I said in my last post, "the team is not that bad." |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 12/04/2007 : 10:12:54
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| ok antroman, they are not that bad. they are mediocre, and i believe mediocrity is worse than being either really good or really bad. if you are really bad you see problems and realize that you need to deal with them. when you are mediocre you say things like "we are not that bad", which i believe is a real problem because you are given a false sense of security or confidence. with the attitude "were not that bad" they will continue to hover around mediocrity and that is a terrible thing for leafs fans. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 15:20:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Antroman, you said it yourself. There is no superstar in the making anywhere in the Leafs organization. Take a look at the Stanley Cup Champs for the past, well, forever, and I can't think of a team that did not win the Cup with at least 2 players that would be considered superstars.
The Leafs don't even have one if and when Sundin leaves. Not only that, those players you mention, all of them meeting their highest potential, are not a Stanley Cup winning team. I think as a fan that you should be more concerned than you are. Realistically, the Leafs will not even come close to sniffing the Cup in the next 5 years and that's if they start rebuilding today.
And the latest Sundin rumor from out West is that he would be interested in moving to Detroit. There are a ton of Swedes playing in Motor City and they have as good a chance as any for a crack at the Cup.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Pogge will be a superstar.
Steen. Stajan. Tlutsy. Mitchell.
All first round draft choices that are promising. I think they have the core guys to be honest.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 17:59:37
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Steen and Stajan are already intermediate NHLers. Tlusty, its a bit too early to tell with him. Mitchell? (By the way, who is Mitchell?) Blake is young enough, I belive he;'s only 32. Gill, Kubina and Mccabe all have to go.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:26:28
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Why keep guys who will only get old and prove to be futile? There is no difference between tenth and fifteenth. Rebuild now, and stop shooting yourself in the foot! Trade the superstars who can't help your team in the next five years.
Mitchell is from the OHL.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 18:47:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Antroman, you said it yourself. There is no superstar in the making anywhere in the Leafs organization. Take a look at the Stanley Cup Champs for the past, well, forever, and I can't think of a team that did not win the Cup with at least 2 players that would be considered superstars.
The Leafs don't even have one if and when Sundin leaves. Not only that, those players you mention, all of them meeting their highest potential, are not a Stanley Cup winning team. I think as a fan that you should be more concerned than you are. Realistically, the Leafs will not even come close to sniffing the Cup in the next 5 years and that's if they start rebuilding today.
And the latest Sundin rumor from out West is that he would be interested in moving to Detroit. There are a ton of Swedes playing in Motor City and they have as good a chance as any for a crack at the Cup.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Pogge will be a superstar.
Steen. Stajan. Tlutsy. Mitchell.
All first round draft choices that are promising. I think they have the core guys to be honest.
Habs get number 25 this year
Stajan and Mitchell were not first found picks, well I know Stajan wasn't 100%.
Personally, as a huge Leafs fan (#1 fan no doubt ) the Leafs have a way to go before being a contender. Stajan and Steen will never be "core" guys. Mitchell is a 3rd liner at best. Pogge has hope but in the AHL he hs shown only flashes of brillience. He needs to step up to be a #1 franchise goalie.
In all seriousness, everyone has to go, first and foremost being Richard Peddie. His manhandling of JFJ is horrible. Secondly, Paul Maurice has to go.It's all done when players lose respect for their coach. Get front office fixed and the Leafs will be good, mark my words. |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 20:29:51
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| The Leafs are doing their best to unsuck right now. Let's just wait until the new year and see what happens. Right now they are in the last playoff spot as of their win tonight over the Preds. Hurricanes won a cup when nobody expected it and Tampa won theirs when nobody expected it. Montreal won their last cup in '93 when nobody expected it. There is great parity in the league right now as any team seems capable of beating any other team on any given night. The trick would seem to me regardless of what team you support, to make the playoffs on some kind of a roll and see what happens. Look what happened tonight, an actual miracle, Belak scored a goal? That should prove right there, anything can happen. LOL |
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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 20:43:29
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Ya but do you see that the Leafs could be couold next year if they did what the flyers did. Its too bad they have players locked up to deals when they should be trading them and rebuilding. What Toronto needs when deals to Mccabe and Kubina and even Jason Blake are over and i know this might take a while but they need to get a player via free agency or trade who makes players around them better. Sure Sundin is good but he is getting old and won't be effective. If you look at Flyers they got Daniel Briere and he makes players around him better. Jason Blake doesnt do that, Mccabe couldnt do that and nobody else can do that. Sure the Leafs have won 3 games in row now but comeone lets be serious there so damn inconsistient that playoffs are out of the picture. Obviously if the leafs make the playoffs ill be laughing at myself but i think chances are just too slim. If a player who plays similiar to the way Briere plays comes to Toronto i can see the leafs turning out like Flyers and either Stajan or Steen turning out like Mike Richards.
Go Stars |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 22:56:52
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I will be the first to admit that I am not a Leafs Fan, however, I do feel that I am look at this objectively. If you took Sundin off that team, there is not another player that would be a first line player on any other team in the league. Maybe Tucker and maybe Blake, but they are borderline at best to be 1st line players on any other team in the league. They have a few decent defensemen. However, only about 1/2 the teams in the league would take any Leafs d-man and put them in the #1 or #2 spot on the team. Their goalies are actually decent but have little to no support.
That being said, there is not a prospect in the system that I am aware of that will be a bonified superstar. None. Not Steen, not Pogge, none of them. I wouldn't put Steen or Stajan ahead of Gagner, Cogliano, Toews, Kane, Mueller, or Handzel. That those guys are rookies. How long have Steen and Stajan been in the league. They might have a number of 2nd and 3rd line type players but that doesn't cut it.
I am simply saying that if I was a true Leafs fan, I would be preparing myself for a long hard road. Even if the rebuilding started today, it would be 2-3 years at least before they could be a real competative team. And with the media pressures and the infighting between the board of directors/president/GM/coach, it's not looking pretty.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1053 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 06:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Why keep guys who will only get old and prove to be futile? There is no difference between tenth and fifteenth. Rebuild now, and stop shooting yourself in the foot! Trade the superstars who can't help your team in the next five years.
Mitchell is from the OHL.
Habs get number 25 this year
For staff, there is a huge difference between 10th and 15th. It's the difference of having a job and not.
Ellis or Mason?
Go Preds Go! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2007 : 20:28:57
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| The most amazing thing in all this is that everyone has an opinion regarding the Leafs. Some of it is good, some bad and some are incredibly crazy. It is a dizzying amount of pure conjecture for the most part. For myself, the glass is half full. For others it is bone dry and the rest fall somewhere in between. There is no other team in the league that gets disected, reviewed, spat upon, unduly praised, torn asunder, lauded or applauded like the Maple Leafs. Judging by all the controversy this team seems to attract, weather it is yea or nay, could result in an all out Canada wide revolution if the Maple Leafs ever did win the Stanley Cup again!!!!!!! |
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Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2008 : 20:47:26
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Well its been awhile since this post has been talked about but i guess you can say now that the leafs need to trade players and get draft picks period
Go Stars |
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What i would do if I was GM of leafs 
