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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2007 : 09:10:08
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There has been quite a bit of controversy regarding the possible modifiation of the salary cap. Apparently the cap has had an effect on the making of trades. Does anybody have an opinion in this regard?
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 11:05:33
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The Salary Cap is based on the overall revenue of the league. It can't just get modified based on what the GM's want. From what I heard through this year it will increase again in the off season, but not as much as is did this past year.
The issue with trades is that some GM's (mainly Brian Burke) are looking for a modification to the Collective Bargaining Agreement(the agreement between the NHLPA and the NHL) to have a set up that a team can continue to pay part of a players salary after they get traded to another club. The issue came up with Bryzgalov this year. Burke wanted to trade him for draft picks/prospects but couldn't find any takers. His thoughts were that if he could have absorbed part of the contract after the trade, he could have made a better move. Instead he had to put the player on waivers and get nothing in return.
Personally, I think that it will take a few more seasons under the cap for GM's to manage the salaries better. Looking at the way things are going under the cap, some contracts are making players untradeable. Consider a guy like Gomez. He's got a contract signed through the 2013/14 season that will pay him the following(in millions):
07/08-$ 10
08/09-$8
09/10-$8
10/11-$8
11/12-$7.5
12/13-$5.5
13/14-$4.5
Considering this, I would think Gomez would be very hard to trade until after the 11/12 season. Not too many GM's would put 1/5 of thier payroll into a player that has a career high of a point a game and has not met his potential. Sather would have a hell of a time getting him involved in a trade if he wanted to.
I think that the GM's create their own problems and I don't personally think that anything needs to be changed with the salary cap or the CBA.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 15:18:30
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I think they don't deserve it.
I'm not saying athletes get overpaid, that's a different issue. I'm saying they falt out don't deserve it. They aren't as good as Gretzky who didn't accept a million. Did infaltion rise 10 times more than it was in the 80s?
The guys are getting spoiled by what the public has turned into a business first, sport second league. It ain't right, it just ain't right. Soon the benchawrmers will get signing bonuses if they fart enough times per minute to keep the players warm.
There it was, my tangent of the day. Hope you enjoyed. 
Habs get number 25 this year |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 17:08:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Did infaltion rise 10 times more than it was in the 80s?
Nope. It did go up significantly though.
$1,000,000 in 1980 would be $2,677,633.83 in 2006.
Just thought I'd share.
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 17:29:28
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| The problem here is that fans really like to see trades and trades are almost non-existant because of the cap. I think that the cap limits GM,s from trading even lesser valued types because it impacts their cap room so much. It is just toooooooooo restrictive. I wonder how strong some teams would be without it? Another problem is that once you pen a player and he doesn't work out, you're beat. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 18:52:17
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I think what is will do in the long run is create more incentive rich contracts. Like a contract for a Gomez like player might be $4 million/season as a base. $1 million more if he get more than 30 goals, $1 million more if he gets more than 80 points. $1 million more if he gets more than 20 points in the play offs, and $1 million more if he wins the Conn Smythe. So he has the potential to make $8 million.
I know I will get beat up for that, but don't look at the numbers or the player, look at the point. It means a player gets his money when and if he performs.
And Alex, let's not forget that Gretzky, in 1982, signed a 15 year $20 million contract. It payed him between $600,000 and $850,000 in the first part of the contract. That put him as the highest paid player in the league. Since 1990 he never made less than $3 million/season. Also, in 1994-95, Gretzky was the highest paid player in the league at $6.5 million. (That's still near the top of the league today!!) Don't think that players, at least since the expansion in 67, have not been getting big dollars. It's just relative to the business of hockey. I don't think, by a long shot, a team was making as much as they are today. Look at the Leafs. They are a $3/4 billion dollar valued team. It's not inflation since the 80's, it the value and revenue of hockey. That has increase substantially higher than inflation. If it wasn't the players getting a piece of the cash, the owners would be.
And it's not only salaries, back in the mid-70's, when Bobby Orr was coming up to contract time, he was offered part ownership in the Bruins. Unfortunately for him, his agent (Alan Eagleson) was in tight with the Owner of the Blackhawks. As the story goes, Eagleson did not tell Orr about the deal that Boston laid out and was told the deal from Chicago was better. So he went to Chicago.
Wonder why Orr was involved with Eagleson's fall????
Sorry, this really didn't have anything to do with the salary cap, just rambling.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 12/03/2007 18:55:04 |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 20:39:28
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Do not change anything, if a GM like Burke cannot think ahead then too bad for him, I am sick of his crying to the press.
Good Gm's have taken the Cap, players ability, players age, length of contract into consideration.
Look at Philadelphia with Briere, he makes less money as his contract gets older, in six years if Phily wants to trade him his salary is only 3.0 mil, many teams may take a chance on him at that price...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 14:54:11
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That also is true.
But more importantly, for success, not just for the sake of the cap
YOU HAVE TO BUILD TALENT, NOT BUY IT
Sue me, but I'm going back to the legendary Habs. They had first draft choices for like 10 years straight at one point. Toronto buys their teams. So does New York. And they get nowhere.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 16:42:02
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Some could argue that Detroit bought a big part of their team as well, but they are successful.
It seems the teams that are successful are teams that draft well, trade for prospects well, and don't over spend on players that are not proven.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 17:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think what is will do in the long run is create more incentive rich contracts. Like a contract for a Gomez like player might be $4 million/season as a base. $1 million more if he get more than 30 goals, $1 million more if he gets more than 80 points. $1 million more if he gets more than 20 points in the play offs, and $1 million more if he wins the Conn Smythe. So he has the potential to make $8 million.
A lot of old contracts were that way before they went to the Cap. Now, I highly doubt NHL teams will leave space in the cap for a "possibility."
Unless of course, they can pay players extra for achieving certain tasks set? Without it affecting their cap? I'm not 100% positive, but I don't believe so.
So, I will have to disagree. I won't argue the numbers bit, as you were just giving an example. But, I don't think a team will leave that much money (or even close to it,) open and free as incentive money for their players.
Irvine |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2007 : 17:48:04
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I tend to find that a lot of teams who draft well and take their time with their players in the AHL/farm teams, seem to be the more consistent year after year.
I'll even take new jersey as an example here. Not doing that great this year, but I mean.. for a team with how many big name players? They are not that bad. Year after year. :) Some years, they are excellent.
They take their time with their players, bringing them up to be NHL ready and it seems to work.
Irvine |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 10:29:09
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Below is a list of the Cup Champions, and how many players were on the team at the end of the season, and in the playoffs.
Does the Draft really win you the Cup?
Min 0 1 0 23 1 1 1
Max 23 31 20 37 3 5 9
Ave 11.0 8.6 9.0 28.6 1.4 1.9 2.8
#N/A Rank
Year Team Drafted Undrafted Other Total Division Conference Overall
2007 Toronto 11 2 18 31
2007 Anaheim 5 8 20 33 1 2 4
2006 Carolina 6 3 18 27 1 2 4
2005 - - - - - - - -
2004 Tampa Bay 6 4 16 26 1 1 2
2003 New Jersey 13 4 13 30 1 2 4
2002 Detroit 10 3 14 27 1 1 1
2001 Colorado 12 6 11 29 1 1 1
2000 New Jersey 15 2 11 28 2 2 4
1999 Dallas 10 5 18 33 1 1 1
1998 Detroit 15 3 10 28 2 2 3
1997 Detroit 14 2 13 29 2 3 5
1996 Colorado 11 4 14 29 1 2 2
1995 New Jersey 17 1 11 29 2 5 9
1994 NY Rangers 8 2 19 29 1 1 1
1993 Montreal 19 4 10 33 3 4 6
1992 Pittsburgh 11 6 17 34 3 4 6
1991 Pittsburgh 10 4 17 31 1 3 7
1990 Edmonton 15 5 16 36 2 2 5
1989 Calgary 15 5 11 31 1 1 1
1988 Edmonton 14 7 16 37 2 2 3
1987 Edmonton 12 5 14 31 1 1 1
1986 Montreal 23 4 6 33 2 5 7
1985 Edmonton 12 6 13 31 1 1 2
1984 Edmonton 15 6 14 35 1 1 1
1983 NY Islanders 17 1 9 27 2 4 6
1982 NY Islanders 16 2 6 24 1 1 1
1981 NY Islanders 17 2 6 25 1 1 1
1980 NY Islanders 20 3 5 28 2 2 5
1979 Montreal 17 5 4 26 1 1 2
1978 Montreal 17 5 4 26 1 1 1
1977 Montreal 14 4 5 23 1 1 1
1976 Montreal 14 6 5 25 1 1 1
1975 Philadelphia 10 11 6 27 1 1 1
1974 Philadelphia 9 12 3 24 1 - 2
1973 Montreal 11 9 7 27 1 - 1
1972 Boston 3 22 0 25 1 - 1
1971 Montreal 7 15 3 25 3 - 4
1970 Boston 4 23 0 27 2 - 2
1969 Montreal 3 26 0 29 1 - 1
1968 Montreal 2 20 1 23 1 - 1
1967 Toronto 1 31 0 32 - - 3
1966 Montreal 1 23 1 25 - - 1
1965 Montreal 1 25 1 27 - - 2
1964 Toronto 0 25 0 25 - - 3
drafted = # of players on the team that were drafted by that team.
undrafted = players that were never drafted in the NHL.
Other = Free agent signings, trades etc.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Edited by - PuckNuts on 12/07/2007 06:52:26 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 14:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Some could argue that Detroit bought a big part of their team as well, but they are successful.
It seems the teams that are successful are teams that draft well, trade for prospects well, and don't over spend on players that are not proven.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Zetterberg has been around. Chelios. Lidstrom. Hasek, they got rid of him but got him back. Datsyuk. Holmstrom. A lot of the key guys. Yzerman retired with the team, so did Hull. A lot others, but the guys who win championships, the guys who are big named, seem to have been there forever. Of course, forever being relative to 13 years for me, but correct me if I am wrong.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Jeremy12
Rookie
Canada
105 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 15:55:35
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I think the cap is going up next year
Thats what they said after the GM meeting or whatever it was
[IMG]http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x49/Jeremy12_24/spezza_sig21.jpg[/IMG] |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2007 : 16:09:07
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Yes, because the NHL has made money. That was discussed at the same meeting as the 84 game schedule, and the new schedule that would feature 6 division matchups / year plus a chance for Canadian teams to see more of Crosby and Ovechkin...
Habs get number 25 this year |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2007 : 06:58:00
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It looks to me that the last three Cup champs, bought their teams...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2007 : 13:17:12
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How? Not signifacntly like the Leafs or Rangers do every year.
Anaheim bought Pronger.
Carolina, I can't think of anyone big. And Tampa, no one.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Should The Salary Cap Be Modified? 
