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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 01/06/2008 : 09:20:32
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Poll Question:
The Beans Award is given to the player deemed as the Best All Around Player in the National Hockey League.
Honorable Mentions go to(# of votes): Dany Heatley(3), Ilya Kovalchuk(3), Nick Lidstrom(3), Roberto Luongo(2), Joe Thornton(2), and Henrik Zetterberg(2)
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Edited by - Beans15 on 01/06/2008 14:26:43
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 15:16:36
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Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 15:57:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year
What?? Lecavalier doesn't do anything for his team?? He's involved in 1/2 of all his team's points. He plays PP and PK and it the Captain. He definately belongs. No doubt about it.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 16:33:58
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Out of these three, I had to go for Iginla. He is willing to drop the gloves when he needs to, gets rough, can score a goal, leads his team, makes plays.
Sounds all around to me.
Irvine |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 01/06/2008 : 18:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by irvine
Out of these three, I had to go for Iginla. He is willing to drop the gloves when he needs to, gets rough, can score a goal, leads his team, makes plays.
Sounds all around to me.
Irvine
May I just add ALL 3 of these players have beeen in atleast a fight this season.
But anyways I went for Vinny leading the league in points, Top 5 in both assists and goals so he is an all-around offensively talented player. 6th most ice-time for a forward and plays all situations as mentioned before.
P.S Am I allowed to vote for these or are they specifically for "The Panel"? |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 18:11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year
What?? Lecavalier doesn't do anything for his team?? He's involved in 1/2 of all his team's points. He plays PP and PK and it the Captain. He definately belongs. No doubt about it.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Mhm. Two points per game helps when you let in four? He is not doing what it takes to make a difference on his team. He is amazing, on another team no question he would be MVP. Not here though, the work is cut out for him.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 19:34:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year
If you're looking for a good all around player then how could you possibly add a goalie to the list? A goalie does 1 thing, stop shots...what all does a guy like Iginla bring to the table? |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 01:12:40
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year
If you're looking for a good all around player then how could you possibly add a goalie to the list? A goalie does 1 thing, stop shots...what all does a guy like Iginla bring to the table?
lulongo does everything for vancover without him they're the worst team in the league
Pasty |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 06:24:30
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Everything?
I never realized that Luongo was a goal scoring, play making, hard hitting, power play specialist. He must be a great leader as well judging by that "C" on his chest. |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 13:51:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year
What?? Lecavalier doesn't do anything for his team?? He's involved in 1/2 of all his team's points. He plays PP and PK and it the Captain. He definately belongs. No doubt about it.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Mhm. Two points per game helps when you let in four? He is not doing what it takes to make a difference on his team. He is amazing, on another team no question he would be MVP. Not here though, the work is cut out for him.
Habs get number 25 this year
How is letting in goals Vinnie's fault? I thought it was the goalie's responsibility to stop pucks?
Vinnie is the best. His points speak for themselves... |
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Guest5441
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Posted - 01/07/2008 : 14:28:41
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| Lecavalier is not the captain sir sorry |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 14:55:23
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quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Obviosly the voters were very offensive minded in this one. But as they say, defense wins championships. I think this one as well should be Lidstrom or Luongo. Lecavalier is a push, he does not do anything for his team.
Habs get number 25 this year
What?? Lecavalier doesn't do anything for his team?? He's involved in 1/2 of all his team's points. He plays PP and PK and it the Captain. He definately belongs. No doubt about it.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Mhm. Two points per game helps when you let in four? He is not doing what it takes to make a difference on his team. He is amazing, on another team no question he would be MVP. Not here though, the work is cut out for him.
Habs get number 25 this year
How is letting in goals Vinnie's fault? I thought it was the goalie's responsibility to stop pucks?
Vinnie is the best. His points speak for themselves...
Fine but still, he is plus 4. Iginla for example is plus 19. Iginla is also half and half almost in terms of home and away points. And according to the USA today formula, Iggy is Mr. Clutch. Might I add he has more goals than Lecavalier also. His play has taken Calgary from 8th to 3rd, top in division -- even if the west is always neck and neck... Iginla has more game winning goals. The list goes on, and this is ONE player. But in terms of being valuable to his team, Lecavalier is not doing what they hired him for, and that is win games. Yeah sure, it is not his fault. But the fact remains he is not winning, even with the support crew being better than Crosby's last year in Pittsburgh in many people's eyes. The goalie in Tampa may jsut lose Lecavalier some hardware.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 15:47:43
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This is insane. Firstly, Iginla's team was no where until the supporting cast started picking it up. Before Huselius hit this streak and Kipper started playing well, Calgary was going no where. Granted, I think Iggy is the best player in the league today, don't think for one second that he is the only reason of Calgary's recent success.
And I can't count how many times I've had this arguement with people. Hockey is a team sport, and one player does not have the impact to win and lose games over the long run. Few players in history have had that kind of impact. Gretzky in LA and Mario in Pitt, Orr, and that's about it. Even then, those players could not win consistantly until they had a supporting cast. Great Hockey Teams are just that, great team, not a Great Player. Lecavalier is a perfect example. He's playing phenomenal hockey, being responsible with the puck defensively, and putting up huge numbers. He's doing more than his job. He is not the reason that TB is losing.
To prove this, think in your head for 2 seconds(as that's all it would take), if TB had Iginla rather than Lecavalier, would they have won more games??? The answer is no.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 01/07/2008 15:49:51 |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 16:02:33
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I don't need to say anything, Beans covered it very well.
Irvine |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 17:00:18
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Yes, I am not saying Iggy is the only reason. He is a far bigger reason though than Lecavalier, number one. Number two, you mentioned his supporting cast. Who do you think told Mike Keenan to switch up the lines? Iginla. He went to him when things were bad and proposed a new idea. Keenan said 'it's your team, run with it'. I read it in the paper.
Second of all, I know that Lecavalier is playing unbelievable. But ask yourself if a Hart Trophy winner really can come from a team that is second last in the NHL. Crosby, I think we can all agree, won MVP for taking his team from no playoffs to fifth in conference.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 17:51:54
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Alex, you never answered my question.
Does Tampa win more games with Iginla rather than Lecavalier??
I don't think you can say yes to that questions.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 01/07/2008 18:26:49 |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 19:14:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
But ask yourself if a Hart Trophy winner really can come from a team that is second last in the NHL.
I think I can answer this question better than most of the politicians on CNN these days.
YES!
ABSOLUTELY YES!!
WITHOUT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT, YES!!!
In case I am being vague, I'll also add one more:
THERE IS NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO EXCLUDE, OR EVEN THINK OF EXCLUDING, A CANDIDATE FOR THE HART BASED ON THE FACT THAT HIS TEAM IS IN SECOND LAST IN THE NHL!!!! NONE, NADA, BAGEL, DONUT, THE BIG O, ZERO, NIL, ETC., ETC. ETC.
As bad a record as the Lightening have this year they could be WAY worse. Extreme example but when I was a very little kid, I was part of one of THE WORST, if not THE WORST, teams ever put together on ice. I sucked just about as much as anyone on that team too by the way. But we had one guy who was great. We lost the games something like 8-3 usually but he, almost always, got the three goals (and if he didn't get all the goals he definitely set them up anyway, that's for sure - no kidding, I think the kid, his name was Ricky, was involved in 100% of our offense). Was Ricky not extremely valuable to our team? Was Ricky's contribution not as valuable to our team as a star player on a strong team? 8-3 every game was embarassing, no doubt, BUT it just goes to show you, a team can always be a lot worse - we could have lost every game 8-0. So that kid may have actually saved us from being completely shut out all season. That's a pretty valuable contribution in my book!
Anyway, the question is not where would the Lightening be with Iggy instead of Vinny. The question is where would they be with a guy like Jozef Stumpel instead of Vinny. How many less points as a team would they have then? Half as many? Less?
Edit - Beans - just read the thread a little more closely and see where your Iggy question is coming from - it's a good point. But with respect to the specific Hart question which Alex posed (as a tangent to the main topic here I guess), I think the Stumpel question is the one that people have to think about.
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Edited by - andyhack on 01/07/2008 19:48:28 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 20:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
But ask yourself if a Hart Trophy winner really can come from a team that is second last in the NHL.
I think I can answer this question better than most of the politicians on CNN these days.
YES!
ABSOLUTELY YES!!
WITHOUT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT, YES!!!
Unfortunately for you Andy, I don't believe the award voters agree with you. Case in point, 02 Hart Award.
It was very close in voting. Theodore vs Iginla. Both very worthy candidates that season. Theodore carried the Canadiens to the playoffs, Iginla's Flames did not make the playoff. I can't help but think that, that is what gave Theodore the edge to win the award.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 22:32:45
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Alex, you can EDIT a reply. You do multipul posts, one after another, in a lot of different topics. :/ I was going to ask about it earlier. heh.
Cause everyone i look at, has you like 3 times in a row with 5 lines of text. lol
Irvine |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 07:52:03
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Alex, you are reading into this totally wrong. This is not the MVP Award. It is the Beans Award. It is given to the BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER IN THE NHL.
No where in any of the posts does it talk about MVP or value to a team. It is based on who you think is the BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 16:32:10
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Sounds to me almost like he's offensivley rounded. I had to go with those more rounded on the D level aswell.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8815
quote:
Originally posted by irvine
Out of these three, I had to go for Iginla. He is willing to drop the gloves when he needs to, gets rough, can score a goal, leads his team, makes plays.
Sounds all around to me.
Irvine
May I just add ALL 3 of these players have beeen in atleast a fight this season.
But anyways I went for Vinny leading the league in points, Top 5 in both assists and goals so he is an all-around offensively talented player. 6th most ice-time for a forward and plays all situations as mentioned before.
P.S Am I allowed to vote for these or are they specifically for "The Panel"?
Irvine |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:28:30
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You spelt iginlas first name wrong
.......
Jarome |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:15:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Who are you suggesting Irvine? Datsyuk? Alfie?
Habs get number 25 this year
Re-read my first post of this topic.
Irvine |
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Guest8815
( )
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Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:47:09
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quote:
Originally posted by irvine
Sounds to me almost like he's offensivley rounded. I had to go with those more rounded on the D level aswell.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8815
quote:
Originally posted by irvine
Out of these three, I had to go for Iginla. He is willing to drop the gloves when he needs to, gets rough, can score a goal, leads his team, makes plays.
Sounds all around to me.
Irvine
May I just add ALL 3 of these players have beeen in atleast a fight this season.
But anyways I went for Vinny leading the league in points, Top 5 in both assists and goals so he is an all-around offensively talented player. 6th most ice-time for a forward and plays all situations as mentioned before.
P.S Am I allowed to vote for these or are they specifically for "The Panel"?
Irvine
Just curious does Iginla play the PK (this is serious question, I don't follow the Flames.) Vinny plays the PK as mentioned before and also has a plus/minus of +4 so either he's got some good defensively teammates or he can hold his own. |
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The Beans Award 
