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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
 Posted - 01/08/2008 : 16:53:30
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I wonder what would happen if I killed my friend while completely s***-faced speeding a car.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 17:04:39
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What are you trying to say IHC? That he is a bad guy. I don't believe that though. He is in numerous charities around the community. Also he was young when that incident happened. Jay Bouwemester has a DUI. Mark Bell also has one too. The Staal brothers spent a night in jail once.
The player that got killed, his family has forgiven Heatley and also proud of what he is accomplishing in the league.
He made a mistake, what's done is done and I bet before every game that night is still on his mind. |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 17:17:06
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Just because Snyders family forgave him doesn't make it ok...He committed a brutal crime, and he doesn't belong in the NHL....Dany Heatly, one sick motherf***er..Look into his eyes, his blood lust is unquenchable (well, I'm just breaking balls)
No, in all honesty, I'm just playing Devils advocate here. Dany made a big mistake, I feel so sorry for the guy. But I dunno, I just wonder what would happen if Joe-Blow did that.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
Edited by - I HATE CROSBY on 01/08/2008 17:18:04 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 17:29:29
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Wow, this came out of nowhere! It's been a while since you stirred the pot so I guess we were due eh!
I believe it was determined that speed was a factor but alcohal was not. |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 17:58:40
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This is over....
There is no reason for him to go to jail.
Many players have been in trouble with the law.
He has been forgaven!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:00:29
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IHC, I dig the stiring of the pot, but let's make sure you got the facts dead on. Heatley was charges with 2nd degree vehicular homicide, driving too fast for the conditions, failure to maintain a lane, and speeding. He was not charged or was there indication that he was intoxicated at the time of the accident. Although he admits to having some drinks, nothing(blood alcohol levels) indicated him being impaired. Rest assured, if he was drunk he would have went to jail. Just like Craig MacTavish in 1985.
Secondly, 2nd Degree Vehicular homicide is defined in Georgia as all vehicular homicides without intent to kill that involve any other violations of the laws governing the operation of motor vehicles. The highest possible punishment was 1 year in prison, $1,000 in fines or both. But, the judge reserves the right to suspend the sentance or administer probation.
Thirdly, if an 18 year old kid is driving too fast and kills his buddy in an accident, and the family asks the judge not to send the kid to jail, the judge would more than likely not. It's not like Heatley was a habitual offender with tons of tickets and citations for speeding or reckless driving or whatever.
And finally, I think the Judge was right in his sentence. The original charges of 1st degree vehicular homicide(a felony and has a 3-15 year sentence) and reckless driving were dropped when Heatley agreed to do 150 speeches on the dangers of speeding.
That is the big difference. Think of it as you will, but the difference between you and Dany Heatley is that people want to hear Dany Heatley talk. Him talking 150 times about his situation is more valuable to society that him spending time in jail.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:18:52
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[content removed by ADMIN - Irvine this was offside, please, no personal attacks]
Irvine |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:21:45
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And right, alcohol was never a factor in the accident. Speed was determined, but it was TWO young guys, making lots of money, having a "good time" that went wrong.
Snyder knew what was going on, he wasn't 15 years old. He chose to be there, with the speeding. They were young, made a mistake that ended in tragedy.
So before blaming him for alcohol, may wish to actually find out if it was involved or not.
Irvine |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:32:10
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IHC may I remind you of Heatley's age? Have we all forgotten the Tlutsy lesson? The guy made a mistake, killed a great friend, and none of us should make excuses for him. It was terrible.
However, he was traded to rebuild his life, is excelling in doing so, is having a ball each and every day, loves where he is, has tons of fans, was forgiven, and the Snyders are proud of his accomplishments.
He has to sleep with himself every night. He will never be forgiven morally, nor by himself. People will remember.
Don't bring it up like this. It is inconsiderate in my opinion, to Heatley AND the Snyders.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:55:40
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| I dont exactly think the Heatley family or The Snyder family will be reading this but this issue was over a long time ago! |
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Guest6641
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Posted - 01/08/2008 : 18:58:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
IHC may I remind you of Heatley's age? Have we all forgotten the Tlutsy lesson? The guy made a mistake, killed a great friend, and none of us should make excuses for him. It was terrible.
However, he was traded to rebuild his life, is excelling in doing so, is having a ball each and every day, loves where he is, has tons of fans, was forgiven, and the Snyders are proud of his accomplishments.
He has to sleep with himself every night. He will never be forgiven morally, nor by himself. People will remember.
Don't bring it up like this. It is inconsiderate in my opinion, to Heatley AND the Snyders.
Habs get number 25 this year
How do you compare what Tlusty did do what Heatley did? Tlusty did not kill anyone. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:05:23
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No no no, God forbid, not at all! 
I am saying that his actions were a wakeup call to the immaturity of all of us at a young age. To get down on guys is not right. They live under constant scrutiny, and it is not our place to comment and relive past events from dark periods in their life.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:22:17
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Ya if we bring this back we might as well bring the bertuzzi thing back!
I guess i will do that. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:32:24
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Come on guys, get it over with. I will say however that Bertuzzi's action was far worse than Heatley's. Not the result, obviously, but still...
Habs get number 25 this year |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:53:08
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I think Bertuzzi meant for someone to get hurt
Heatley didnt want to hurt Snyder in any way |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:54:21
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| Hockster and Alex you guys are having an argument when you agree with each other. |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 19:54:48
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| You know if Heatley keeps putting up these numbers for years to come. His story would make a good movie. Just saying. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 07:51:10
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OK people, agree or disagree with the Topic, but let's keep it away from being personal. IHC has his opinions and he is entitled to them. No one said anything when there were posts about Mark Bell or that Tlusky kid, so why is this one off limits?? No one says, "Respect Steve Moore and his family," if there is a post about Bertuzzi, so how is this any different.
Personally, I think it's a valid question. Worded poorly maybe, but is it not a valid question about the justice system and the treatment that a Pro Hockey player receives compared to a "regular" guy???
Just because you disagree doesn't make something wrong.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 08:01:14
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Just curious, why would anyone think that Heatley was treated differently than any other Georgia citizen at the time?
Remember the laws in the US are much different than in Canada, in fact the laws vary from state to state, so be careful of where you commit your crime...
Of coarse you know that this means war!
- - Bugs Bunny
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
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Edited by - PuckNuts on 01/09/2008 08:54:38 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 12:55:22
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I think we do not give enough credit to the judicial systems. Benas you yourself in your post regarding 'the facts' hit it on the money. What interest does a Southern U.S. judge in protecting a hockey player? I highly doubt he had much of an idea who Heatley was. The law is the law is the law. And Heatley got what he deserved.
By the way, would someone mind telling me on what charges Heatley was brought to court, i.e. who was the plaintiff? The Snyders could not have been, they forgave him did they not?
Habs get number 25 this year |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:15:12
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He was likely charged by The State of Georgia it self. "ex: The People of Georgia VS Dany Heatley."
Irvine |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:32:38
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This is what I thought. It was most likely the police who witnessed it or was on the crime scence bringing the case forward, as obviously, they are supposed to do. Now do you think that the judge would undermine a police man to favour a young hockey palyer? It seems unrealistic to me.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:44:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Come on guys, get it over with. I will say however that Bertuzzi's action was far worse than Heatley's. Not the result, obviously, but still...
Habs get number 25 this year
You have obviously not attended one of Heatly's seminars on the subject if you think that what Bertuzzi did was worse. The point of the judgement handed down on the Heatly affair was intended to promote awareness. This has been lost on you, and likely countless others. Anyway, I agree to some extent with IHC that there is a bias of leniency involved with celebrity, that played a part in the ruling. If you or I had been in Heatly's shoes at the time, I don't think we would expect to be in a situation, financial, or social, anywhere near comparable five years down the road.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 13:56:44
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Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
And come on, Bertuzzi clearly intended to knock out Steve Moore. Not handicap. But yeah, injure. Heatley did not, or else he would have recieved a harsher sentence. If you say he did, than the whole judicial system in the United States crumbles at our feet. I for one do not believe this is what the world has come to, much less one of if not the biggest powerful nation in the world.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest9944
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Posted - 01/09/2008 : 14:04:02
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Paint Train,
I wonder if you would think the same way if one of your relatives were killed.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2008 : 14:30:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9944
Paint Train,
I wonder if you would think the same way if one of your relatives were killed.
I completely agree with this. PainTrain your posts are very good, I enjoy reading them. And even here, you are right that public interest is there and money is to be made. But to make a movie... what a disgrace to the Dan Snyder legacy. I'm assuming that just slipped your mind, I say that sincerely 
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest9939
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Posted - 01/10/2008 : 09:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
You misunderstood me. What I meant was if I was to be drivng recklessly this afternoon, and caused an accident which resulted in a fatality, I could not conceive that five years from now I would be back to living my life the way I am accustomed to. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 09:27:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
And come on, Bertuzzi clearly intended to knock out Steve Moore. Not handicap. But yeah, injure. Heatley did not, or else he would have recieved a harsher sentence. If you say he did, than the whole judicial system in the United States crumbles at our feet. I for one do not believe this is what the world has come to, much less one of if not the biggest powerful nation in the world.
Habs get number 25 this year
Ok, let's get a couple of things straight, Bertuzzi punching a guy from behind is a far cry from someone getting in their vehicle at night after it rained and roaring their Ferarri down a winding road at 80 mph. Something like what Bertuzzi did happenes hundreds of time a day outside most any bar in Canada. Bertuzzi was made an example of, Heatley did get some special treatment based off his celebrity.
C'mon, the original charge was 1st degree (felony) vehicular homicide!! That means he would have faced a minimum of 3 years (and a Max of 15) in jail. The reason he didn't is because he agreed to speak 150 times on the dangers of speeding. Do you seriously think for one second that if you or I had the same charge we could do the same thing. Any judge in the world would laugh if you said, "Hey, lower the charge to 2nd degree, give me probation, and I'll do 150 speeches on speeding."
And pease don't put words into my mouth. My first post clearly stated to follow the facts that he was not drunk. That was it. I talked about the charges he was convicted on but also the charges he had dropped. Both charges dropped(1st Degree Vehicular Homicide and Dangerous Driving) carry stiffer penalties.
With all due respect to Heatley, as soon as he made the conscience decision to drive his car 80mph on a wet and winding road, he took the responsibility of his and his passanger's life in his hands. He may not have intended to kill the poor kid, but he is 100% responsible for it. I do believe however, that his celebrity coupled with the Snyder family asking the judge to not send Heatley to jail saved his ass. I think it was the right decision, but that's besides the point. Don't think for one second that his celebrity didn't help. The Snyder's helped more, don't get me wrong. But his celebrity did help him.
And my finally note, your faith in the American Judicial System?? I have only two letters for you:
O.J.
'nough Said.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 17:02:19
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| Justice in the American Law System? Let me add Michael Jackson to your list!!!!! Anymore? |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 17:32:55
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I'm half American so I guess I have to do my thing and add some balance here.
Justice in the Canadian Judicial System? Karla Homolka! That's pretty embarrassing guys!
And, we must never forget one very important fact about O.J.:
He got his 2000 yards in 14 games, not 16. 
Okay, okay, bad taste, and, yes, we can forget that point (unless I am greatly mistaken, O.J. "forgot" he killed a couple of people after all).
As for this topic, I think IHC has a bit of a point, but find it hard to get too worked up about it because the Snyder family was so forgiving to Dan Heatley. That family has a lot of class and a lot of grace.
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Edited by - andyhack on 01/10/2008 17:34:44 |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 17:37:35
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I know if that was my kid i wouldnt have as much class as the Snyder family.
It would be tough to forgive someone for killing my own son.
Would any of you be able to forgive heatley? |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:12:41
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No, I wouldn't. But listen, I have a feeling the only thing Snyder was doing different was he wasnt drving. When two close buddies get in a car like that at a speed like that, there is a mutual agreement about what they are going to do. Snyder was on board, literally, and unfortunately got the worst end of it. But it could have been the other way around has he driven. The Snyders probably recognize that he was not close to innocence.
That being said, your son dies it ain't easy.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:16:30
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ya you really said it
Great points it just aint easy
He also agreed to get in the car and let heatley speed |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Oil, we were not in the situation he was, financial or social, five yars prior, so how do you expect us to be in that situation five years after? It is relative.
And come on, Bertuzzi clearly intended to knock out Steve Moore. Not handicap. But yeah, injure. Heatley did not, or else he would have recieved a harsher sentence. If you say he did, than the whole judicial system in the United States crumbles at our feet. I for one do not believe this is what the world has come to, much less one of if not the biggest powerful nation in the world.
Habs get number 25 this year
Ok, let's get a couple of things straight, Bertuzzi punching a guy from behind is a far cry from someone getting in their vehicle at night after it rained and roaring their Ferarri down a winding road at 80 mph. Something like what Bertuzzi did happenes hundreds of time a day outside most any bar in Canada. Bertuzzi was made an example of, Heatley did get some special treatment based off his celebrity.
C'mon, the original charge was 1st degree (felony) vehicular homicide!! That means he would have faced a minimum of 3 years (and a Max of 15) in jail. The reason he didn't is because he agreed to speak 150 times on the dangers of speeding. Do you seriously think for one second that if you or I had the same charge we could do the same thing. Any judge in the world would laugh if you said, "Hey, lower the charge to 2nd degree, give me probation, and I'll do 150 speeches on speeding."
And pease don't put words into my mouth. My first post clearly stated to follow the facts that he was not drunk. That was it. I talked about the charges he was convicted on but also the charges he had dropped. Both charges dropped(1st Degree Vehicular Homicide and Dangerous Driving) carry stiffer penalties.
With all due respect to Heatley, as soon as he made the conscience decision to drive his car 80mph on a wet and winding road, he took the responsibility of his and his passanger's life in his hands. He may not have intended to kill the poor kid, but he is 100% responsible for it. I do believe however, that his celebrity coupled with the Snyder family asking the judge to not send Heatley to jail saved his ass. I think it was the right decision, but that's besides the point. Don't think for one second that his celebrity didn't help. The Snyder's helped more, don't get me wrong. But his celebrity did help him.
And my finally note, your faith in the American Judicial System?? I have only two letters for you:
O.J.
'nough Said.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Beans, regarding the verdict, I believe it was the money Heatley spent on his lawyer, not his personal status, that merited such a merciful outcome.
The same with O.J. Allan Dershowitz is the greatest lawyer the United States has ever been graced the presence of.
Regarding the responsibility, read my last post. Snyder gets in the car, he knew what was happening. They were close, even had he not known, he could have told his buddy to stop.
And no question Heatley was question. Bertuzzi was intent on injury. I see a big difference between two immature kids and a man punching out a kid.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:27:16
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
I wonder what would happen if I killed my friend while completely s***-faced speeding a car.
Ted Kennedy killed someone in his car while intoxicated. The sad truth is if you're powerful or famous enough you can get away with stuff like that.
____________________
Whether in hockey or politics, the Senators have always annoyed me |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 18:28:39
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Bertuzzi moore beat down crime
Heatley speeding Not as big of a crime
i dont no why they would bring this up instead of the bertuzzi incident |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:12:37
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Yeah you guys are right. It would be disgraceful to Dan Snyder. But I just though about Heatley coming back and getting back to back 50 goal seasons after this unfortunate incident and it made me wonder what it would look like to see the whole thing in a production. I don't mean any disrespect to the Snyder's about my recent post I just posted before thinking. A lot of the members do that occasionally. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 21:29:29
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Alex, you contridict yourself. You made the point that Heatley's choice and money on a lawyer helped him. Well how in the hell do you think he could do that?? Maybe his profession?? So, you are saying his profession helped him in one post and in your previous post you said his celebrity didn't help him.
Pick a position and defend it. Don't flip flop. That's like being a politician, and no one likes (or believes) politicians.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 21:19:21
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No listen.
Heatley being a celebrity did not incline the judge towards him. Heatley having money to buy a good lawyer did.
It wasn't his profession and his status, it was his money. Had he been some unheard of millionaire I feel he would have got the same results
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Guest4466
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Posted - 01/12/2008 : 21:49:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
No no no, God forbid, not at all!
I am saying that his actions were a wakeup call to the immaturity of all of us at a young age. To get down on guys is not right. They live under constant scrutiny, and it is not our place to comment and relive past events from dark periods in their life.
Habs get number 25 this year
Speak for yourself, not everybody is immature in their early 20s. And what happened with Heatley involved a lot more than immaturity, young age does not automatically=poor judgement. Tlusty was just having fun that adults of any age have, its just that that type of behaviour is usually private with adults. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2008 : 06:46:27
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I'll weigh in quickly here - Heatley made a terrible years ago, and because of his high-priced lawyer and age and previously clean record, AND most importantly - the Snyder family's forgiveness, got off fairly lightly. That being said, I am sure Heatley will never forget that terrible mistake, or his friend Dan.
I was chagrined to read about the inference that alcohol was involved - it was not. I was apalled at some idiots here conflating the Bertuzzi affair with this incident - it's unfair, stupid, and ridiculous.
Let's move on. |
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Topic |
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Dan Heatley go directly to jail don't collect $200 
