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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
 Posted - 02/05/2008 : 12:57:59
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It appears the Leafs do have an abundance of good young talent but the problem is they do not seem to have any great talent at the moment. The jury is still out on Tlusty and Stralman but they show signs of becoming quality star players in the future. They have quite a few secondary types including Stajan, Steen, Wellwood, White, Earl, Colliacavo Etc. They have a few prospects out there including the two Mitchell's, Pogge, and Kulemin and others in Europe coming along quite nicely. They have several good players under thirty including Antro, Poni, Toskala And Kaberle. They have their first pick in the draft this year and a few verterans as trade bait. I don't think the rebuild should take all that long, do you? The biggest problem from what I can see might be the lack of a young star leader to replace Matts.
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 13:28:33
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Finally we’re on the same page here Antroman.
I think the leafs do have young talent, but the problem is who gets the majority of the ice time? Do you give it to Stajan, Steen, Wellwood? Do you bring up Kulemin and put him on the first line?
There are a lot of questions here that need to be answered. Paul Maurice, or whomever the coach is next year will have to watch these guys closely to determine who’s going to be the best fit.
The worst thing to do would be to give up on any of these guys (including Wellwood). They’re young and they will take time to develop.
Go Wings Go! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 13:44:08
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Take a look at any team in the league, they all have young talent, that is what the minors are for.
The problem is that Toronto along with others do not have a player that is in their organization that is capable of leading an NHL team anywhere.
None of the players that have been listed above are top notch players in the NHL, they are all 2nd-4th liners, and you need top talent on your first line, not hopefuls.
The Leafs will have to make a trade for a top player that they can build around, and some examples would be but not limited to a Brad Richards...
Champions take chances, and pressure is a privilege.
Billy Jean King to Maria Sharapova
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 13:51:02
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Great Point Puck, and what I have been trying to say regarding the Sundin potential and why it's important to the Leafs to get some Prospects and Picks in their system.
They are not like the Oilers with Gagner and Cogliano. They are not like Chicago with Toews and Kane, and not like Phoenix with Muellerand Hanzel just to name a few.
Most every team in the league have an abundance of players in their system that will fit the 3rd and 4th line role in the NHL. Other teams are positioned well for the future(as the one's I expressed above). The Leafs, on the other hand, are lacking those 1st line type prospects and draft picks.
I see 4 distinct groups of teams in the NHL today:
Teams Good to Today (Philly, Calgary and Montreal come to mind)
Teams developing for Tomorrow (Edmonton, Phoenix, Washington, Chicago)
Teams Good for Today and Tomorrow(maybe Anaheim, Detroit, San Jose)
and where the Leafs are:
Teams that are not playing for today or tomorrow. (Along with TO, Tampa Bay, Buffalo, and Vancouver)
I say that not as a Leaf hater but as logical a hockey critic as I can. The Leafs have little today and don't appear to have much swimming up stream. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/05/2008 13:54:50 |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 14:26:58
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definetley like stajan wellwood steen tlusty stralman..
stajan: always tries his hardest never has enough ice time can score an make plays and very talented
wellwood:has heart can score make plays shifty deker sneaky and talented with the puck
steen: doesnt always give 100% but he can score and is ok at making plays
tlusty: 2 goals in last three games impressive.... havent see enough from him yet
and stralmen: at least he hits unlike some leafs D(thats right im talking to you kaberle ) can handle the puck very well and is good defensivlly and ok i guess...offensively
>>>Go Leafs Go<<<
Wings 4 The Cup |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 14:41:52
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| Hey Puck, That is what I said in my post....They need a great prospect and not just good. They should be able to come up with a franchise type in the next couple of years, I would think anyway. I am hoping for two first rounders this year......there own and one via the trade route? I really believe Stralman has blue chip written all over him.....time will tell. I can't see the team going too far next year either so maybe they will compete for the Tavares cup as well? I just hope the victory the other night was an aberation and not the start of a run to try and make the playoffs. I would at least like them to stay in the Stamko's Cup race. At least no one can say they are tanking it on purpose. After listening to all the interviews I get the impression they still think they have a chance. |
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ERTW0T9
Top Prospect
Canada
73 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 15:24:46
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| Great points by everyone on this. One thing that hasn't been explored though is the potential of Mats staying around and mentoring the youngsters for the next coming seasons. What the Leafs need to do is clean house of washed up veterans and make room to slowly integrate and challege their young players to develop them into strong NHL'ers. Tlusty has seemed to mesh well with Sundin and works very hard. Stralman can continue to learn from guys like Kaberle and Pogge could definitely learn a thing or two from Toskala. As for their players like Steen, Wellwood and Stajan, they've not made significant strides towards development this season. However, Leafs camp has actually been patient with them and Steen is slowly coming to be a great two way player and the only potential leader for the future. Part of me feels like the young players would blossom under a new style of coaching. Nothing against Paul Maurice. The jury is still out on Kulemin and I'd like to see him play in the NHL next year. I think the Leafs' greatest potential acquisition would be strong, young, Canadian talent (ie: Mike Richards, Sam Gagner etc.) either through the draft or via trade. Thoughts? |
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Datsyuk 1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
333 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 17:19:29
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| Hey beans Detroit won't be good for later because they just have a bunch of old guys that are really experienced. Although they will have Zetty and Datty for later. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 17:42:18
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I wouldn't worry about Detoit. They may have some older players, but they are always a good team. They have made the playoffs 22 of the last 24 years, have not missed the playoffs since 89/90, and haven't finished worse than 2nd in their division since 90-91.
With arguably the best GM of the past 15 years plus the winningest coach in the history of the game as the Sr. Advisor, Detroit is in fine shape. |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 21:14:01
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To everyone who still thinks Wellwood is a prospect then I hereby propose for the umpteenth time since before Christmas that he would make a nice throw in when they trade one of their veterans.
I see the Leafs did very well tonight by gaining a full two points on Tampa and LA in the Stamko's sweapstakes.
Hey Erty - I think Stajan and Steen are fine, They can be the talented foot soilders because every team needs them. If they become solid second and third liners in a couple of years then that is ok, is it not? These two are keepers for sure, although nobody on the team should be untouchable when it comes to a major overall?
Tonight's game was an abberation. It just happens sometimes. I think Greg Millen should try giving somebody credit once in awhile for a good play instead of constantly running player's down. He is really getting on my nerves. After the goal in which Gill took his man out behing the net, leaving the puck for Stralman to pick up, the guy Gill knocked down made a great play while laying on the ice by sweeping the puck away from Stralman to a team mate who slipped it over to an open guy who scored. Not once did he say what a great play the Florida guy made but kept prattling on about guys not being covered etc. What a boor this guy is!!!! The glass appears to be always half empty with Greg. |
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SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 09:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
To everyone who still thinks Wellwood is a prospect then I hereby propose for the umpteenth time since before Christmas that he would make a nice throw in when they trade one of their veterans.
I see the Leafs did very well tonight by gaining a full two points on Tampa and LA in the Stamko's sweapstakes.
Hey Erty - I think Stajan and Steen are fine, They can be the talented foot soilders because every team needs them. If they become solid second and third liners in a couple of years then that is ok, is it not? These two are keepers for sure, although nobody on the team should be untouchable when it comes to a major overall?
Tonight's game was an abberation. It just happens sometimes. I think Greg Millen should try giving somebody credit once in awhile for a good play instead of constantly running player's down. He is really getting on my nerves. After the goal in which Gill took his man out behing the net, leaving the puck for Stralman to pick up, the guy Gill knocked down made a great play while laying on the ice by sweeping the puck away from Stralman to a team mate who slipped it over to an open guy who scored. Not once did he say what a great play the Florida guy made but kept prattling on about guys not being covered etc. What a boor this guy is!!!! The glass appears to be always half empty with Greg.
I agree. I think he has his head up his ass half the time. His voice is annoying as well! |
Edited by - SuperSakic on 02/06/2008 09:12:48 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 10:26:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Great Point Puck, and what I have been trying to say regarding the Sundin potential and why it's important to the Leafs to get some Prospects and Picks in their system.
They are not like the Oilers with Gagner and Cogliano. They are not like Chicago with Toews and Kane, and not like Phoenix with Muellerand Hanzel just to name a few.
Most every team in the league have an abundance of players in their system that will fit the 3rd and 4th line role in the NHL. Other teams are positioned well for the future(as the one's I expressed above). The Leafs, on the other hand, are lacking those 1st line type prospects and draft picks.
I see 4 distinct groups of teams in the NHL today:
Teams Good to Today (Philly, Calgary and Montreal come to mind)
Teams developing for Tomorrow (Edmonton, Phoenix, Washington, Chicago)
Teams Good for Today and Tomorrow(maybe Anaheim, Detroit, San Jose)
and where the Leafs are:
Teams that are not playing for today or tomorrow. (Along with TO, Tampa Bay, Buffalo, and Vancouver)
I say that not as a Leaf hater but as logical a hockey critic as I can. The Leafs have little today and don't appear to have much swimming up stream.
but if you look at mtl's semi rebuild with the youth movement who is clearly the best,,, thomas plekanec and who would of thought this guy would have stepped up his game the way he did,, the Habs have so many young players that should never have cracked a top line but are doing so,,,, maybe the leafs young talent can do the same?
Pasty |
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Guest1462
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Posted - 02/06/2008 : 10:40:52
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| hey antroman. just a day after my beloved copper and blue devastated our alberta rival 5-0, your beloved blue and white (cupless in 40) lost to a team from the sunbelt. yes, the sunbelt !!!!!! how is that for good young talent, huh? a team that just quits like the losers they are. i just loving seeing that comedy called teh leafs unfold. my goodness what a joke they are indeed, just comical and pathetic. an absolutely joke from owneership to the players. i love to wath it and see you rrogant leaf fans still think youre so good and dweel on 1967!! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 13:14:13
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| Guest 1462 - I enjoyed the drubbing of the Leafs by the Panthers too. While we were getting tatooed two of our rivals for the Stamko's cup were winning. It was like a four pointer for us when LA and Tampa both won and we lost. We are now only four points away from that first overall pick in the draft. Too bad your copper pots don't have their pick this year? Gee, just think, if Burke decides to trade it to us then we can shove it in your face like he is going to do to the Oilers if he doesn't trade it. You said "arrogant Leaf fans"? How much more arrogant can you get than posting this to a Leaf fan after they just got smoked? I think maybe a little trip to your mirror will enlighten you to what arrogance really looks like!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Guest1485
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Posted - 02/06/2008 : 15:29:00
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ah yes, thank you for the response antroman. i enjoyed that intensity you showed. perhaps my comments were a little harsh and unnecessary; maybe the result of frustration that comes from hearing about those leaafs every day even when they are all of the things that i said in the post. i cant change thaat.
brian burke is a smart guy and he can do whatever he wants to the oilers or the leafs. fact of the matter is that oiltown already has an abundance of young talent and really dont need much more youth from drafting, although having a franchise goalie might be nice (garon is not bad either, but not a franchise guy). so to go back to the heart of thje topic, the leafs might have decent young talent, but absolutely nothing compared to the likes of cogliano, gagner, hemsky, horcoff, pitkanen.
not even a great draft pick can help your leafs anyhow. i would never want to play there as a youngster because leafs fans generally a******s (of course not all of them, theres good ones) and treat their players like dog dung when they are losing. a great young player would probably show up and be crushed by your ridiculous expectations (fueld by a 40 year gap between finals appearances) and the experience would have an adverse effect on his career.very few youngsters are mentally strong enough to handle such a situation.
hey i know all about the leafs situation- false visions for some young prospects that you hope will be the savior, weve had a few here in edmonton too (mikhonov....good god). thing is we improve while you deteriorate. they are pathetic and they are a comedy.
its just simple. the leafs need to crush the entire experiment, get a quality gm and rebuild. after that, leaf fans need to suck it up for a few more years until the new team reaches maturity and is ready to contend for the mug. this whole thing with the leafs just takes time, and the first step is exploding and burying everthing there right not.
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Guest4953
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Posted - 03/17/2008 : 17:30:19
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| The Leafs have a lot of decent young talent but no future superstar or MVP as of today. Unless they end up with the #1 pick this year (as if) they won't really unless they trade off some big contracts for young rising stars and high draft picks in the 1st round . |
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jmsmorris
Top Prospect
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2008 : 17:30:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4953
The Leafs have a lot of decent young talent but no future superstar or MVP as of today. Unless they end up with the #1 pick this year (as if) they won't really unless they trade off some big contracts for young rising stars and high draft picks in the 1st round .
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 12:42:17
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No, the Leafs DO NOT have a decent amount of talent. I think compared to the rest of the league, we have very little, actually.
Currently Playing Regularly On Our First, Second, Third Lines:
Sundin - awesome player, but he may retire this summer or next.
Antropov - one season wonder sure to break a leg soon - but here's hoping he stays healthy, so that he can be a solid anchor on the 2nd line
Blake - an expensive slacker, needs to be dealt to a s*** team that needs scoring. A major defensive liability who seems to have lost his scoring touch.
Steen - competent third liner, needs to increase scoring consistency for future second line status.
Stajan - solid third liner, will grow into a good checker who can score occasionally
Ponikarovsky - good energy third-liner who can occasionally score.
Tucker - aging third-liner who is not in future plans
Devereaux - effective defensive third-liner; solid spare part
Kilger - meh . . . yet another third liner, except he's not getting any younger.
Wellwood - showed first line promise, has been a bust (injuries as well) this year. Not durable enough, seems like the points will only diminish from here on in. Would love to get proven wrong, but looks like a broken spare part right now.
One 1st liner sure to leave/retire soon, one 2nd liner who is bound to get injured soon again. A bunch of third liners. So who do we have to potentially fill those top six spots? 1st liners who can put up 30 goals+ or 50+ assists? 2nd liners who can add 20-25 goals, 40-50 assists?
Let's look at the list:
Tlusty, Moore, Pohl, Gamache, Williams, Newbury . . .
Out of those guys, I see some decent potential from Tlusty (needs a lot of defensive work, though) and Williams (in my mind, the only guy I see with the possibility of landing full-time first/second line status).
NO. TALENT.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest5643
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Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:52:11
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| they can always pick up hossa at the end of the season |
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2008 : 18:27:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5643
they can always pick up hossa at the end of the season
I think Hossa is looking to be locked up in a long term contract a la Ovechkin, and M. Richards.
The leafs making a move like that would just put them into an even worse position financially than they already are.
Go Wings Go! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 08:18:31
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| I am not sure Toronto is the right fit for Hossa. There is a lingering stigmatism over the Berard eye injury that still sticks in the craw of a lot of Leaf fans. I know it was an accident pure and simple but quite a number of people don't see it that way. It is a shame because Hossa would be the most exciting player to come to Toronto since Mogilny a number of years back. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 09:17:44
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I am agreeing with Slozo on this one. Looking at the Leafs prospects now, it looks like it is going to be a long time before they will be challenging for a cup! I mean, their best prospects? Tlustly? Stralman? I think Tlustly will be a second liner at best. Stralman will be a top 4 defenceman. But after that they got nothing! Wellwood is one of the laziest players in the league. Stajan and Steen are third liners. Coliacavo can't stay healthy. WIlliams can't skate. Poni should be on a checking line, dishing out the hits. He is not a 2nd liner. Antropov can't stay healthy. He should've been traded this year cuz they actually could've gotten something for him this year! Pogge will be good but i think they should have kept Rask. I do not see much of a future for this team! They are gonna need to start drafting some very good players
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 21:43:40
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yes, i do beleive the leafs have young talent.
heres just some players
Justin Pogge
John Mitchell
Anton Stralman
Jiri Tlusty(d*** as i like to call him )
Nikoliah Kuliemen
Jason Riehmer
Todd Ford
Jay Harrison
Staffon Kranwall
Bret Enghelhart
Kris Newbery
Matt Stajan
Alex Steen
Kyle Wellwood
i could go on and on( well not really maybe 3 more players to that list but that proves my leafs will be good...............................in about 5 years
Leafsfan_94
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Do The Leafs Have Young Talent? 
