| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2008 : 07:22:50
|
Poll Question:
Do you think that Mike Bossy would have had 15 or more straight 50 plus goal seasons if his career hadn't been cut short by his back problems?
|
|
Edited by - andyhack on 02/10/2008 07:23:51
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 07:31:37
|
While "campaigning" for Bossy recently, I said that he might have had 15 straight 50 plus goal seasons but for the back problem that cut his career short. In my opinion, he was a "phenom" beyond what is generally recognized. Of the category of player which he was, he arguably has a significant edge over his competitors such as Brett Hull and Espo if the answer to this question is either "Yes" or "No But..." (at least if we are just focusing on incredible goal scoring over time).
Thoughts, opinions, insane outbursts?  |
 |
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 09:54:17
|
I think it's conceivable that it could have happened. Considering it would have been 1992 at his 15 year mark which was still a high scoring era and considering how driven Bossy was to score 50 goals a season.
But it would also depend on his team mates. Are Potvin and Trottier still there to assist?
"Curiosity killed the cat but for awhile, I was the suspect."
-- Steven Wright |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 06:39:30
|
No, I guess by the end of the '80s Trottier would have been replaced by Lafontaine, and Potvin would have been gone. It would have been a much more ordinary cast overall, so your point is well taken. Getting the 50 would definitely have been more challenging. But, even then, given the offensive era and his relatively young age at the time, it seems to me quite possible, if not probable, that he would have at least picked up three or four more 50/60 plus goal seasons.
And this is one hypothetical where I think even those who dismiss hypotheticals will end up raising their eyebrows about the potential result, if they only let their imagination wander a tiny bit. Let's say for example that it's not fifteen 50 plus goal seasons but "only" twelve (so he gets 50 in that last year, which he was on pace to do, and then has two more 50 goal seasons), and then he slows down in a sort of Espo way with some 40 and 30 goal seasons before retiring. Even that pretty conservative scenario leads to a pretty awesome result, which when put up against his main rivals kind of makes him stand out even more in my opinion (meaning that he stands out to me even without the hypothetical - the hypothetical just reinforces the point).
I just think that, even factoring in era and team differences, the consistency of Bossy's incredible 50plus/60plus numbers over 9 years (which is 4 more than the 5 years Brett and Espo had of their admitedly absolutely amazing goal seasons) gives Bossy a significantly different place than his main rivals IF we are just talking about goal scoring.
On the other hand, I understand the "overall" argument for Espo looking at various aspects of the game, other contributions (particularly leadership), the '72 series... as well as the fact that Bossy played with one of the best centres and best defencemen ever. These points are all valid. It's an interesting debate - Espo or Bossy. As a group, we seemed to go back and forth on it ourselves.
|
|
|
|
MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 08:01:56
|
| Listen, I was heartbroken when he wasn't voted the 5th best since 67....now I'm damn near suicidal |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2008 : 09:02:47
|
I don't think that 15 consecutive 40 goals seasons is even close to possible. There are far too many possibilities. One injury, one cold streak, anything and that 52 goals turns into 48. Bossy did it 9 out 10 years which I would say may be one of those records that will never been repeated. Consider the final year he played, he was limited to only 63 games.
Let's not forget that for most hockey players 15 years is a career. To be at the top of the game for that long, well there are only a handful of those guys and they all seen a decline to a certain degree.
Even to average 50 goals/year for 15 years is not something I think it possible from most any other player. Bossy, if he would have played another 5 seasons and averaged 35 goals over those 5 season, he would have ended a 15 year career with 750 goals.
I think(if healthy) he could have averaged 50 goals /year, but not 15 consecutive years of more than 50 goals. |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 06:31:23
|
Beans - what about the more conservative scenario I mention above (twelve straight 50 plus goal seasons...)? I don't think that one takes that much of a stretch of the imagination. If healthy, he very likely would have reached 50 in that shortened tenth season, and I don't think visualizing two more should qualify anyone for a free pass into the cuckoos nest.
And if he would have done that, would anyone have hesitated for a second to put him higher than, for example, Ray, on a list like we're making? Or would they conclude that Bossy was one of those few special guys whose offensive exploits push him past almost all of the guys on this list, regardless of the edge those other guys may have in other aspects of the game?
His actual numbers stand on their own, so I just raise the hypothetical to enhance the point that Mike was perhaps more of a "once in a lifetime" type player than he is generally believed to be.
|
Edited by - andyhack on 02/12/2008 06:34:17 |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 08:53:53
|
Just though it was interesting as we talk about Bossy using his "numbers" and possibility to reach certain "numbers" yet as soon as someone does this with Gretzky, we jump down their throats???
Oh, and by the way, 12 straight years could have happened with a healthy Bossy. I agree with that. And as I said. an average of 50 goals/season was possible as well. |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 09:40:57
|
 Your post made me chuckle a bit Beans. Here we go talking about Wayne again.
Again with the sensitivity. I would talk about any hypothetical involving Wayne and points, or any other matter. In fact, I created one about Wayne on the Kings last year if you recall. If you were talking about me, I don't see how that is "jumping down anyone's throat".
I mean, what do you want Beans? More space devoted to Wayne at the HHOF? Shall we lessen the space for guys like Mikita, Bobby Hull and Dave Keon? Not enough articles, books, TV specials saluting Wayne as Number 1 for you? Or is Number 1 just not enough? Do you feel that calling him "the greatest ever" somehow shortchanges him? Shall we put an asterisk beside his name on our list with a little note at the bottom saying, "Everyone else on the list is kind of meaningless but we felt obligated to come up with some names".
It is ironic that the point of this thread was to suggest that maybe we should regard Bossy in a somehwhat more special light (not to the degree of Gretzky - I see that, but still, perhaps a little more special than we give him credit for - perhaps at least an inch towards the "once in a lifetime" category type player), but you have chosen to make a comment about Gretzky here. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 09:44:50
|
No, no Andy, You got me wrong.
I didn't want to talk about Gretzky at all. I just wanted to bring up the irony of us talking about stats with certain player but attacking others for talking about Grezky's stats.
It's not about Gretzky, it's the irony.
|
|
|
|
rross
Top Prospect
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 10:38:03
|
I was a big Bossy fan back in the 80's. He was an iincedible player and goal scorer. I didn't realize how good his stats were until I looked into it. As for 15 straight seasons, I don't think so. But he would have been very close..... say a few seasons in the 40's. Still, either way, pretty amazing. Too bad his career was cut short. Great player.
Go Habs Go!! |
|
|
|
Guest4912
( )
|
Posted - 02/12/2008 : 13:15:37
|
| Bossy is the puerst scorer to lace em up. He could do things and score more goals then moist and not to mention. His playoff stats. Greatest scorer ever. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Bossy Hypothetical 
