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Guest7601
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 Posted - 02/20/2008 : 07:22:05
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Hey all.
I don't quite care to sign up for forums in general (hence the guest post), but this topic about goalies' equipment, and re-sizing nets and all has resurfaced at the GM meetings and it just bugs that they have not really considered anything effective IMO.
I been simmering this idea for some time now, and I think I may have an interesting suggestion and I wanted to get some opinions.
First off, may I say that I do not measure the quality of the game of hockey by the number of goals scored in a game. As the All Star games have shown, 11-8 games are not necessarily good games to watch. Watching two teams skate to a 1-0 victory can be exciting depending on the style of play and the scoring chances. However, I agree that it can be frustrating for players (even in rec. leagues and pick-up) to have goalies filling up the whole net and leaving nothing to shoot at.
Here therefore is my idea...
MAKE THE GOALIE EQUIPMENT HAVE A HIGHER WEIGHT TO SIZE RATIO.
I used to play goal a bit when I was younger and sitll play goal in a pinch during pick-up games and I can tell you that the single biggest thing that I noticed is the fact that the huge equipment I wear weighs next to nothing! The fact that it weighs nothing means I can move quicker, get up quicker, get across the crease quicker, and over the length of a game, not become as physically fatigued and therefore, be more dynamic right to the end of the game.
So... make a trade-off. Set a size/volume to weight ratio for goalie equipment and let the goalies decide if they want to wear big (and effectively heavier gear) thereby sacrificing movement and risking higher fatigue to fill more space, or, wear smaller (and effectively lighter gear) thereby giving setting themselves up to be more dynamic and mobile goalies.
Following up that rule, keep (or actually start) enforcing the current rules in respects to "add-ons" and floppy jerseys, etc.
I think the result would be a greater variety in goaltending styles, forcing teams to adjust to different teams in respects to offence, as well as forcing defence to adjust their style of playing in respects to their own goalies.
I realize that this does not necessarily create more goals (that is not my intent necessarily), but it does essentially real back in the equipment manufacturers in respects to the space-age gear theyr are dressing players with theses days.
Anyhow, what do you all think?
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro
382 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 08:38:26
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Not a bad idea, however I can see more goalies getting injured. If you increase the weight of the pads especially, you'll see an increase in groin pulls/tears.
Go Wings Go! |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 08:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by hkalirah
Not a bad idea, however I can see more goalies getting injured. If you increase the weight of the pads especially, you'll see an increase in groin pulls/tears.
All you have to do is go back a few years, and all the goalie equipment was made from leather not some high tech light weight material. Even in the older equipment the padding was a different material. I would bet that two pads of today's materials are still lighter than one pad of leather...
Let us see, Glenn Hall played in 502 consecutive games, all the minutes with no backup with the old leather pads...he did not pull a groin...
There is nothing wrong with using new lighter materials, but keep the equipment to a size that protects the goalie from injury, not add to his ability to stop the puck...
All the equipment has size dimmensions, pads, blocker, and catcher, I think the problem is with the arm, and chest protection, why does a goalie need shoulder pads that almost touch his ears???
[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img] |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 09:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by hkalirah
Not a bad idea, however I can see more goalies getting injured. If you increase the weight of the pads especially, you'll see an increase in groin pulls/tears.
Go Wings Go!
interesting idea i'm more inclined to this one then makeing the pads smaller and the bigger nets,,, but hkalirah is right already with the butterfly style the knees and hips and groins are weak if they were lugging more weight around you might have more injury's
Pasty |
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rross
Top Prospect
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 09:33:50
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The problem isn't with the pads, glove or blocker, but these do make a small difference. The biggest problem is with the chest/arm protection and large jerseys. With the butterfly style being used most prominently in this day and age, 90% of shots are stopped with the body, not the pads, or glove or blocker. Being a goalie I know this as do the goalies in the NHL. Therefore, the focus should not be on the pads, glove and blocker, but on the upper body gear.
Go Habs Go!! |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 13:12:49
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| you wouldnt get any more injuries then you do now. The Goalies woud simply train a little more or a little diferantly to acomadate for the extra weight. |
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Guest4912
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Posted - 02/20/2008 : 13:28:14
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first of all, training is not going to prevent a freak groin tear, it may stop the extent of the injury but training to stop a groin tear in a sport where doing the spits while people are falling on you is routine. Not to mention the length of time you must play through.
that is a phenomonal idea and I hope that it is considered. |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 14:27:04
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Bieng a goalie myself,
I realize that pads and stuff have little wieght like people have said.
and I think that the size and wiehgt of the pads glove and blockerrs dont have much a differnece,
like ross said, 90 perecnt of the shots stopped are on the body,
so I think the main concern would be the chest and arm protection,
which would allow you to move urs arms quicer and allow you to have more flexibility.
~~~GO STARS~~~ |
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Guest9702
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Posted - 02/20/2008 : 15:44:49
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Hey there,
Original Poster here.
I've read some good comments and would like to address the butterfly style issue.
I think that one of the reasons that butterfly style is so predominent in the NHL today is the fact that the gear is so light. Think about it, if I asked two goalies (one in larger, heavy equipment and in smaller, lighter equipmpent) to drop and get up many times over, I guarantee you that the heavy geared goalie is going to slow down a lot sooner than the light guy.
That's one of the keys to butterfly. The ability to get back up and into position quickly after the initial shot or if the original shot is redirected or never comes. Goalies who wear light equipment can do that thanks to the excellent conditioning programmes they do, AND because their equipment is not as heavy.
Moreso, the guy above who mentioned the leather pads said they were heavy and heck. Yep... they were heavy in the warm-up and even heavier by the third period due to player fatigue and the fact they sucked up water and snow like ten bears after a spring thaw!
While I agree that the "bigness" of the upper bodies on goaltenders is an issue, there are already rules in place for that and this rule that increases the relative weight of the equipment need not only apply to the pads, trapper, blocker, but could also be applied to the chest protector and other bits and pieces.
Look forward to seeing more replies.
Cheers!
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Guest4435
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Posted - 02/20/2008 : 17:43:54
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| Semin, I see we're on the same page. It's important for goalie's who know what they're talking about be invloved in these discussions. As for making the gear heavier, then that would have to apply to forwards gear too to make it fair. Just as goalie equipment technology has evolved, so has forward equipment. Hockey stick technolgy which makes shots harder faster,more accurate. Bottom line is that the game is faster, so comprimising the safety/health of goalie's is not an option. Smaller gear will not expose more of the body. There is just more gear there than necessary. You can't take everything away from the goalie and expect fairness across the board. Let the equipment evolve as it has throughout the game, don't take that away. But definitely limit the size of the gear, limit the shirt size too. Goalie's wear larger shirts for two reasons. To accomadate the larger chest/arm protectors, but also to take up more of the net. |
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Guest9711
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Posted - 02/20/2008 : 20:24:54
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OP here...
Oh I agree 100% with resizing the skaters' equipment as well. I think Don Cherry is s dinosaur for the most part, but when he brings in the JOFA pads and whacks Ron M(a)cLean on the head with it to make the point about the direction some equipment is going, I think he is right.
As for the sticks shooting more accurately, current Sabre Dan Paillé (sorry to drop names but it's to make the point) and former Habs pick André Deveaux were playing for me on my HighSchool hockey team (rules permitted it because we were a small French language high school that only played in closed tournament format leagues). Anyways, the year they were both drafted they were both using one piece sticks and at least Deveau told me that he had a hard time getting used to them. Now, I don't dispute that the guys in the NHL shoot harder with them, but I am not 100% certain that the sticks make them more accurate shooters as well. They don't seem to have affected Paillé in a negative manner anyhow... he's having a great year!
Anyhow, I don't dispute the need to be fair and the need to protect goalies with good and safe equipment, I just maintain that a goalie would have to make a choice as to how he would wish to play the game in respects to what his equipment (and it's volume and weight) would permit. |
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Guest9711
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Posted - 02/20/2008 : 20:29:02
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OP again...
Just looked it up because I was curious and Deveaux seems to be property of the Thrashers now. Anyhow, sorry to derail this...
Back to the goalie discussion!
:) |
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rross
Top Prospect
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 06:41:34
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I'm still sticking with my original theory about chest/arm protectors being the problem. I have heard some news regarding policing pads etc. But haven't heard anything substantial regarding policing chest protectors and jerseys(as 1 guest here mentioned) please expand on that.
Go Habs Go!! |
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Guest7695
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Posted - 02/21/2008 : 07:37:58
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Hey there, OP here,
In response to the question above about existing rules, please see this link.
http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule21.html
Rules regarding chest and arm protection are under paragraph (c).
The whole thing is quite an interesting read, especially the pre-amble. I'll quote it for you here:
"With the exception of skates and stick, all the equipment worn by the goalkeeper must be constructed solely for the purpose of protecting the head or body, and he must not wear any garment or use any contrivance which would give him undue assistance in keeping goal." Rule 21 (a)
Later! |
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rross
Top Prospect
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 08:53:35
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Thanks for the legal info. But my question was not about the rule, but about policing the rule. Like I said, there is policing happening regarding goal pads, but I haven't heard anything with regards to chest/arm protection and jersey's. Furthermore in response to an earlier post regarding why the butterfly style is being used...it's not because gear is lighter. It is because goaltender's figured out that the body was the largest piece that could cover the net. There is a lot of misconception that the butterfly is used to utilize tha pads on the ice. That is not true..I repeat not true. If the puck hits your pads in the butterfly then you got lucky. The purpose is to use the upper body and torso because it can take up the biggest part of net. That's why now even the 1/2 butterfly(Martin Brodeur) is becoming more and more popular.
Go Habs Go!! |
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Goalie Equipment Discussion Again... An Idea? 
