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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2008 : 01:59:16
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Not only can you not have 2 people debating the SAME side, the guy who goes second can either NOT RESTATE anything the first guy said (in which case I will re-post my first statement because I was saving ammo for my follow-up posts) but the second guy could just re-word things that the first guy said, claiming that he too would have said those things.
That's why the originator of the whole thing has to arbitrarily decide who goes first....because that debater gets to be the "home" team seeing as how he gets to pick which side of the debate he chooses - which forces the other guy to argue the other side.
You simply cannot have 2 guys arguing the same side; it's nonsensical. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 02:11:54
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I just realized something...
2 guys arguing the same side isn't a debate, it's an essay contest. In which case the 2 combatants have to e-mail the topic-creator their individually finished essays and then they are posted simultaneously for scrutinization by the members/voters.
If we go this route, I clearly want to write my whole essay in one piece. Unfortunately, I have already divulged significant research to whomever my opponent might be.
So is it going to be a debate or an essay contest? |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 17:42:20
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Good for you, Paintrain, for playing devil's advocate! May I suggest researching other parts of the game that have resulted in in more common and more serious injuries, and the way they have not even been considered for review? Probably not, but I just did.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2008 : 18:25:11
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quote:
I was also thinking about the 3 pool problem which is why I originally wanted 16 people. There is always the oppurtunity of having a 3 person debate. Not sure how that would work though.
__________________
The possibilities are endless! Each could argue the merits of his favorite player/ team/ coach/ era/ GM/ dynasty/ goaltender. If it comes to this, I would suggest that one comittee member is disqualified, and the other two go head-to-head for the final.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2008 : 12:04:26
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I just wanted everyone to know that I will be posting my 2nd statement tonight when I get home from work. That will be approx. 4am EDT. Sorry about the delay, guys.
(This is assuming that we are still doing a 3 post debate). |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2008 : 15:44:00
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| I just posted my 3rd post so I think that means you guys can start voting on who wins. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 01:25:23
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To continue the post-debate discussion (out of pure interest in the sport, now) I found the Bob McKenzie/USHL "hybrid" no-touch icing info here:
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/?id=232516
The first half of the article poses some good arguments against "no-touch" and maintaining the current system. Fascinating. It even causes me to think twice about changing it, if only a little. Apparently, all of junior hockey in the US is heading this way. Great article. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 13:06:33
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Still waiting for votes from people.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 13:53:53
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I know, I know, I'm a pain in the ass. Does anyone agree that Paintrain should get another chance, and the format should be re-evaluated? I understand if I'm the only one who feels this way, but he was basically set up to be knocked down. Wouldn't want the same thing happening to me.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 14:15:20
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
I know, I know, I'm a pain in the ass. Does anyone agree that Paintrain should get another chance, and the format should be re-evaluated? I understand if I'm the only one who feels this way, but he was basically set up to be knocked down. Wouldn't want the same thing happening to me.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009.
I do see where you are coming from OIL. In all fairness though it is the way Pain decided to go. It is possible for two people to have the same opinion but have completely different facts to back it up and that right there alone could cause a debate.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 15:38:53
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You can't have a debate if both people agree.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 15:50:07
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Can I request to go next? School is really quiet lately, I looked at the matchups, and based on how long the last debate took, if we wait a for me to play in the round I am scheduled for, I will be in the middle of exam prep or on a Grad Trip by that time...!
I think leafsfan_101 has been around these forums lately too from what I have seen, so it should not be a problem.
If it is, that's cool. I may have to wait for a later round though, but that's cool. Allows time for me to grow some brain cells 
Take two minutes to join the PickUpHockey Cyber Cup!
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3820#51395
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 16:21:54
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| It's no big deal if I'm out. Obviously It was tough, because right now I think it's 6-1 for pickles. And going against is hard if you're all for just having no -touch icing!! Thanks for thinking I deserve another shot OIL but we'll leave that up to LRP, and I had to go against it because it wouldn't have been a debate and it would be boring just reading facts! |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 16:37:36
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quote:
Originally posted by PainTrain
It's no big deal if I'm out. Obviously It was tough, because right now I think it's 6-1 for pickles. And going against is hard if you're all for just having no -touch icing!! Thanks for thinking I deserve another shot OIL but we'll leave that up to LRP, and I had to go against it because it wouldn't have been a debate and it would be boring just reading facts!
You are truely a class act Paintrain. It must have been hard for you to come in on short notice and also have to debate on something that im not so sure you were for. My only concern if we have a do-over is that it will slow down the process. I would be for it if this wouldnt take so long.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 16:40:02
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No worries you guys move on. You guys have been waiting long enough and Alex is getting quite anxious. As long as I get to vote for the best debater I'm happy! |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 16:45:14
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In regards to Alex. I dont see any problem with that. Plus, I havent seen Hkilirah around lately anyways. LF_101 never seems to be dormant from the boards so I could probably say that you two would be the next ones up.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 17:22:58
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I've been looking forwards to this debat game. I'm up for being next.
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 19:12:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101
I've been looking forwards to this debat game. I'm up for being next.
Can we get our topic tonight? That way I can get a little researching out of the way
Take two minutes to join the PickUpHockey Cyber Cup!
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3820#51395
Hey Alex, I think that we should wait for the current debate to end before we go full on with the next one. I hope you understand
Hopefully it can start tommorow or Saturday.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 19:17:03
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People we are waiting on to vote:
Willus3 and Hkilirah. Please do not look at the current score if possible. This is because both votes could possibly change the outcome.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 07:33:43
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Hey Alex and Leafsfan_101. We are still waiting on 2 votes. But, I thought that you guys could maybe get a head start on researching for your debate.
An idea popped into my mind for a topic but I need some info before I can give it the green light.
Crosby vs. Ovechkin:
I know that LF101 is all Ovechkin when it comes to this debate. So Alex, I wanted to know if you were on the Crosby side or if you would be willing anyways to debate for Crosby?
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 12:47:24
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quote:
I think that we should wait for the current debate to end before we go full on with the next one.
Why? Let's get them all going. This is meant to be similar to the format of the playoffs, right? Any one debate won't affect another, so why don't we jump into it?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 12:51:48
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
quote:
I think that we should wait for the current debate to end before we go full on with the next one.
Why? Let's get them all going. This is meant to be similar to the format of the playoffs, right? Any one debate won't affect another, so why don't we jump into it?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2009.
It might all get cluttered and confusing. With all of them going on at the same time, it might get hard to read all of the debates.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Ottawa Oilers
Rookie
150 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 13:27:57
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Just so you guys know, I quite dislike these "Member Only Forums", I usually post as a guest but I do have an account, I post the exact same thing either way, But that's another story.
Now what I actually wanted to say, Im not sure if Mytor and Beans are even facing each other or even in this for that matter but they should have a debate about Toskala's worth this year, as they are practically having one right now.
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3876
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Edited by - Ottawa Oilers on 04/05/2008 13:28:46 |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 15:33:37
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Notice:
Hkilirah has decided to drop out of this competition. Any Member that would like to take his place is welcome.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 17:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafs Rock Planet
Hey Alex and Leafsfan_101. We are still waiting on 2 votes. But, I thought that you guys could maybe get a head start on researching for your debate.
An idea popped into my mind for a topic but I need some info before I can give it the green light.
Crosby vs. Ovechkin:
I know that LF101 is all Ovechkin when it comes to this debate. So Alex, I wanted to know if you were on the Crosby side or if you would be willing anyways to debate for Crosby?
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
Haha, this is what you call a question? What guy in his right mind would not debate in favour of Sid the Kid? The guy has been put in the same sentence as Gretzky, and you wonder if I feel comfortable comparing him to Ovechkin? This is like a dream debate! What a joke! Of COURSE I will back up Crosby! 
(Not saying I will win. Just wanted to point out that anyone who would not take this side does not appreciate the chance they have been given.)
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http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3820#51395
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 18:43:07
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Haha ok Alex. Your topic will be established in the debating thread shortly. Stay tuned.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2008 : 18:49:43
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Yes, who gets the all important startoff statment?
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 07:58:25
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We will make new threads for each debate and then hopefully admin or the mods could delete them after they are done.
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 14:11:10
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Since we are a third done the round (LeafsFan_101 has posted his opening statement, and I, my rebuttal) I would like to hear some of your feedback and I am sure he would to. Would be good to know where we stand. Comments / criticisms are welcome. Much appreciated
Take two minutes to join the PickUpHockey Cyber Cup!
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3820#51395
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Edited by - Alex on 04/06/2008 14:18:31 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 14:41:00
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I will not give feedback until the end. If you get feedback, you may alter your debate moving forward.
I will say this however, there is one person that I see as head and shoulders above the other through the first post. One of you has already lost unless you do some serious work in your next two posts.
Which one of you is which??? |
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 14:41:16
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So far I woud give the edge to Leafs Fan, because he was able to widen my opinion on Ovechkin, instead of elaborating so much on one thing, he showed us what he's all about in many different aspects rather than one. Alex, I felt you were concentrating too much on the 'good guy/role model' aspect of Crosby, I'd like a little more variety. I'm not taking anything away from you though, it was a great statement, good job so far to both of you.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 14:51:26
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I still have two posts to go. If you want stats you could have stats, I mean, Crosby is by no means a bad producer in terms of points. But there is more guys, so much more.
I just wanted to get that new aspect out there. There is a lot that Google and TSN does not tell you and I don't want to be copying and pasting all my information. It is the principle of the matter. I will not see another generation of kids saying 'Gretzky was the best' and knowing his stat totals by heart, or copying word for word what they heard on SportsNet the night before.
It is actually so predictable.
For fun, at times I will look at what a TSN or The Score or SportsNet analyst has said, do some research and come up with a good counter-opinion, and ask my friends what they think on the topic.
Already knowing their argument in advance, I put up seemingly strong arguments against every one of their details. The thing is, if they knew what they were talking about, they could probably counter my counter-attack and make a case for themselves. But since all they are is a product of their environment, they simply have nothing to say but 'Oh ya, then why does Bob McKenzie agree with me?'
Hockey is a real game. The closer you get to it, the better. It is an eye opening experience to actually go to a game, better yet to meet the people, and have an idea of who they are as opposed to just what you see on television.
I believe that hockey is not something that should be studied. It is not a math or a science, it is an art. It is, after all, entertainment, and we should know the other side, the real side, to the players.
Thoughts?
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http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3820#51395
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 15:00:40
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Alex I agree with you entirely, but this is a debate, not a beauty contest. I was looking for you to introduce your arguement in a whole but instead you decided to stick to one topic. Now since this is a debate, stats/facts don't play as much of a role than if you went to nhl.com and compared them, that is true, but there must be other accomplishments Crosby has that Ovechkin does not, I would like more incite on that.
Anyway, I hope you're not taking my criticism too heavily, you did ask for it. My decision still stands but I believe this debate is completely up for grabs.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 15:11:39
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I took a bold move, and I am trying to break this baby wide open. I took the challenge of LeafsFan_101. I challenge LeafsFan_101 to do the same.
Tell me something I, or the rest of the hockey world, does not know already. Make it personal, make it interesting, captivate your reader and highlight the good point of Alexander Ovechkin that are not constantly highlighted in sports reels all across North America.
And also, answer my question I left for you in regards to your statements about ''Crosby's antics'' and his lack of physical play.
I am loving this debate, and more importantly, its potential. You and I together can build upon the success of the latter to make for some very thought-provoking arguments on either side. Let the members of this site enjoy reading our work, and I emphasize OUR work, the work which we have done to add something of value to the ongoing debate that is Crosby vs. Ovechkin. Rise to the call of duty my man LeafsFan!
Best of luck my friend!
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2008 : 20:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Patchy
Alex I agree with you entirely, but this is a debate, not a beauty contest. I was looking for you to introduce your arguement in a whole but instead you decided to stick to one topic. Now since this is a debate, stats/facts don't play as much of a role than if you went to nhl.com and compared them, that is true, but there must be other accomplishments Crosby has that Ovechkin does not, I would like more insight on that.
Anyway, I hope you're not taking my criticism too heavily, you did ask for it. My decision still stands but I believe this debate is completely up for grabs.
~~Go Leafs Go~~
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 04:39:47
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There is still a vacancy. Anyone interested?
____________________
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
- Vince Lombardi
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Keith
Top Prospect
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 15:39:21
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I will join
And by the way, to answer Alex's question, he is destroying the other guy. I used to be in the middle but Alex is right we hear way too much of the same things and I am sick of it also I think that when you look at the big picture Crosby really is better |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 16:23:44
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I'm going to have to bow out guys. No time lately.
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Keith
Top Prospect
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
I'm going to have to bow out guys. No time lately.
Will, might I suggest you at least try and stay in? I'm sure LRP would be willing to accomodate you and let you go in the later rounds. That way, we could still have you in. Losing some of our besst debaters is no fun! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 22:00:43
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I just wanted to throw this out.
I just re-read each of the first two posts of each Alex and Leafs_Fan. All I can say is that one person is 6 feet under and the other is in the clouds. I can not wait until this is over so I can say my piece. |
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The Great Debate- Comments 
