| Author |
 Topic  |
|
BradTheBadDad
Top Prospect
73 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 09:18:38
|
Oh have mercy! Woods over Gretzky? That was my original opinion, but then I did a little reading.
I would go off on a tangent that golf can't be compared to hockey but I realize that this isn't what the post is about. It's very hard to stay on topic when the difference is so huge between the two ''sports'' (if you can call golf a sport), but I will focus on Woods vs. Wayne, not Golf vs. Hockey. That means I can't complain about indivdualism vs. team sport, or physical vs. not physical... That being said, and I hate to say it:
Tiger Woods IS in fact the better athlete of the two. Unless he gets a career ending injury any time soon, he has taken golf to a whole new level in all of ten years. Even Wayne didn't change his game in the same way. No one compares to Woods in golf.
''Eat. Sleep. Hockey'' |
 |
|
|
Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 09:20:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
Sheesh! Puh-lease! How many tournaments does Tiger do in a year? And how many did Gretzky get to do? Gretzky only got one shot a year to win a championship. Tiger probably does something like 3-4 a year. What else is he gonna do? I don't watch golf, so I am not going to get into any technicalities of the sport itself, but I think his tourneys last something like a week, whereas the NHL season lasts close to a YEAR! How many opponents does Tiger have, and how many opponents did Gretzky have at one time? I could understand it as a fair comparison if Tiger were playing one tournament for a whole year, then you would be valid in saying that he went through something MINUTELY similar to the physical rigors required for the NHL. As well, Gretz had to rely on other teammates. Maybe if hockey were a one-on-one sport you could ALMOST compare the two sports. Or maybe if they allowed body checks in golf you could ALMOST say they are comparable.
I'm sure that there's Dart Throwers out there that are the best at their sport, or maybe Ping Pong players, or maybe Lawn Bowlers, or maybe Horseshoe Tossers. They have poker players on sports channels nowadays as well...
What about that guy (Fischer was his name or something?) that was a chess master? He beat a freakin computer! Maybe we should say that he was the best athlete? Let's see Tiger beat a robot. Then I will call him "the best GOLF PLAYER" - not ATHLETE!
golf tourny's usually a weekend of three rounds i believe and tiger probaly has about 20 of em a year,,,, heres how i feel if we're deciding the most dominant player in their sport and then comparing all he number ones,, to see who was the most domiant athlete,, i would go with brett faurve reggie sanders dion sanders,, why they were dominant in 2 or more major league sports,, they say fauvre could have easily been a mlb short stop and was touted one of the best prospects.. you also have the sanders' who were quite good at both baseball and football,,, i forget the name and don't feel like googling it but some guy in the states was drafted in the first round by nba,mlb and the nfl... thats pretty dominant,, if chris drury had never blown out his arm he would have been a major league pitcher,,, these are in my mind are the most dominant athletes in my mind,,,p.s best damn sports show made a list of the top 50 most dominant athletes currently actve and woods was number three Kobe Bryant was dubbed the champ
Pasty |
|
|
|
FranzenFanatic
Top Prospect
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 09:30:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
i would go with brett faurve reggie sanders dion sanders,, why they were dominant in 2 or more major league sports,, they say fauvre could have easily been a mlb short stop and was touted one of the best prospects.. you also have the sanders' who were quite good at both baseball and football,,, i forget the name and don't feel like googling it but some guy in the states was drafted in the first round by nba,mlb and the nfl... thats pretty dominant,, if chris drury had never blown out his arm he would have been a major league pitcher,,, these are in my mind are the most dominant athletes in my mind,,,
Pasty
Shows how much you know about sports, you go thru multi-sport athletes whitout mentioning Bo Jackson the greatest athelete ever!? Who do you think you are |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 10:18:13
|
June 17, 2008 (II)
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic
Maybe if hockey were a one-on-one sport you could ALMOST compare the two sports.
So the solo aspect of golf set off a red light for you, eh? Very well, it’s a valid point. Now comes the time for my rebuttal.
You say Wayne Gretzky was held back by the team setting. The devil’s advocate would argue otherwise; Gretzky greatly benefited from those around him. He was a skinny little kid who was liable to lose teeth most nights had it not been for the police officers around him.
When it comes to skill, he’s tops. He had an unrivaled hockey sense, and read the play like a book. That’s all good and fine, but hockey by nature is a team sport. To dwell on the hypothetical ‘what-ifs’ serves no tangible purpose. Putting the Great One into a one on one battle with almost any other player as you suggest is just like sending him into the lion’s den. He would get thrown around like a rag doll. I will give you the satisfaction of admitting he was the best athlete in a team sport in modern sports history, but I draw the line on anything past that.
In the spirit of debate, let me play the other side of this theory to my advantage as well. I’ll take it as far as to say that the individuality in golf makes it harder to stand out. Does 32 000 mean anything to you? I’ll tell you the significance in that number: it’s the estimated amount of golf courses worldwide. The influx of golf players looking to make a name for themselves spans the entire globe. Yesterday, someone ranked 158th and hardly a contender to even play in the tournament gave the top dog a run for his money. Golf players come in all shapes and sizes, all nationalities and backgrounds, and as long as arthritis doesn’t kick in you can tee-off with the best of them. My retired gramps or a boy fresh out of high school can both compete for the same ultimate prize. That’s how fierce the competition is.
Do you realize how hard it is to stay at the top of your game over the course of a pro-golf career? In hockey if one player has a bad came, the rest of the team can shoulder the load. Not so with golf. You have to oust every single other player sharing the green with you. It’s a game of inches where one bad judgment call can cost you an entire tournament. To win one such event is a true feat; to do what Tiger is doing is next to inconceivable.
I sympathize with the hockey diehards, because I too feel that hockey and golf can not both fit under the same umbrella word that is ‘sport.’ Hockey is a cut-throat marathon. Golf is a test of wits. I feel that hockey is cheapened by using it in the same sentence as golf. But I hold strong to my opinion that Tiger Woods is the best athlete (in the current sense of the word) out there. Semantics will take a backseat for now.
-The New Kid on the Block |
|
|
|
Ripley
PickupHockey Pro
USA
365 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:53:33
|
Alex, seriously how old are you? I remember in your profile, or maybe it was some of your original posts on the site, you claimed to be 12 or 13 years old. But I really find it hard to believe that a 13 year old can write as well as you have been writing, AND be THIS committed to doing it (yes I am complimenting you)
There's nothing wrong with telling a fib about your age last year.  We'll all forgive you because you're a key part of our little community now.
So c'mon...how old are you really? |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 13:15:44
|
I think some people may be talking about two different things here.
When it comes to the best "athlete," I would say that neither Tiger nor WG would even be in the ball park. Marathon runners, triathletes, cross country runners, rowers, and the like have far more "athletic" talents than most team sport athletes.
However, if you are speaking of an athlete that most dominates a sport, Tiger is so far head and shoulders about anyone else that there is no comparison.
Tiger Woods plays an average of 20 golf tournaments a year. This means he plays around 80 competative rounds of golf (most tourneys are 4 day, 18 holes per day). Of those, he generally wins about 30% of them. Above that, he is in the top 25 in 80%+ of the tourneys he has played in. Not only that, he normally averages about 68 a round for the year.
Compare that to the next guy in the world golf rankings(Phil Mickelson) who plays about 5 more tourneys a year and wins around 10% of them and finishes in the top 25 in about 65% of the time. Phil is around 70 a round for the year.
So in comparing this, Tiger wins more, is near the top more consisitantly, and generally beats the golf course by four stokes a round. By the end of a tourney, Tiger is around -16 to par when the rest of the guys are -8 to -10.
He is not only head and shoulders about the guys playing today, but he is on pace to have a Gretzky like page in the record books.
Tiger already has pretty much every scoring record at every major championship. He is 3rd all time in tournament wins. He has done more in the 12ish year he has played golf than Arnold Palmer did in 40+ years. If Tiger stays healthy, he will completely shatter every major record in golf. Not just beat them, shatter them.
Consider that Jack Nicklaus, the person many feel is the 2nd best golfer of all time was 38 years old when he won his 14 major compared to Tiger at 32. That's 6 years, 24 major tournaments. Tiger has won 14 majors in 12 years. That is a little more than one a year. He has won 6 of the last 10 majors. At that pace, he will beat Nicklaus's record of major wins by the time he is 35!! Most golfers have their prime through the their 30's. Sam Snead has the most tourney wins over all with 82. His first was in 1936 and his last in 1965. Average of about 3 a year. Tiger has 63 in 11 1/2 years or about 5.5 a year. If Tiger was to play the 29 years Snead did, he will nearly DOUBLE the most wins in a career.
To put this into perspective, the way Tiger is trending to break records in golf would be the same as a hockey player having 300 point seasons, and having 5000 points in a career.
Tiger is head and shoulders above the next most dominate athlete in a sport you can think of. |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 13:38:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ripley
Alex, seriously how old are you? I remember in your profile, or maybe it was some of your original posts on the site, you claimed to be 12 or 13 years old. But I really find it hard to believe that a 13 year old can write as well as you have been writing, AND be THIS committed to doing it (yes I am complimenting you)
There's nothing wrong with telling a fib about your age last year. We'll all forgive you because you're a key part of our little community now.
So c'mon...how old are you really?
I take this as a compliment  But honestly, I am thirteen, born in September so I have a while until I become legally old enough to watch most movies!
The reason I have so much time is because I do great in school and literally have next to no homework. I studied for only one of my five exams. I got 97, 94, 92, 98 and 100 without more than 5 minutes of studying. Guess what I was doing in that time that I should have been hitting the books. 
I should mention that I go to a private school, and next year in H.S. will probably have less time to devote to our beloved forums. Many days in middle school we get half closings for an assortment of reasons (Grad Banquet, Graduation, Prom, Grad Trip...). Many days I flat out take off, like today I chose not to go to the Romeo and Juliet play because I was up late last night partying at after-prom.
The school year is technically over in two weeks, but for all intensive purposes it has been finished for a month already.
Writing is my best subject (100 on last three English exams) and that explains my above average language skills.
As an aside, let me say that I wish I was older because people tend to take us youngsters with a grain of salt. No one really takes us seriously unless we have money, beer, girls and cars, all four of which aren't in my league just yet. There would be no incentive for me to mask my true age.
And now if you'll excuse me, I have a perfectly teenaged meeting with the orthodontist. Later boys. 
-The New Kid on the Block |
Edited by - Alex on 06/17/2008 13:48:55 |
|
|
|
99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 13:52:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think some people may be talking about two different things here.
When it comes to the best "athlete," I would say that neither Tiger nor WG would even be in the ball park. Marathon runners, triathletes, cross country runners, rowers, and the like have far more "athletic" talents than most team sport athletes.
However, if you are speaking of an athlete that most dominates a sport, Tiger is so far head and shoulders about anyone else that there is no comparison.
Tiger Woods plays an average of 20 golf tournaments a year. This means he plays around 80 competative rounds of golf (most tourneys are 4 day, 18 holes per day). Of those, he generally wins about 30% of them. Above that, he is in the top 25 in 80%+ of the tourneys he has played in. Not only that, he normally averages about 68 a round for the year.
Compare that to the next guy in the world golf rankings(Phil Mickelson) who plays about 5 more tourneys a year and wins around 10% of them and finishes in the top 25 in about 65% of the time. Phil is around 70 a round for the year.
So in comparing this, Tiger wins more, is near the top more consisitantly, and generally beats the golf course by four stokes a round. By the end of a tourney, Tiger is around -16 to par when the rest of the guys are -8 to -10.
He is not only head and shoulders about the guys playing today, but he is on pace to have a Gretzky like page in the record books.
Tiger already has pretty much every scoring record at every major championship. He is 3rd all time in tournament wins. He has done more in the 12ish year he has played golf than Arnold Palmer did in 40+ years. If Tiger stays healthy, he will completely shatter every major record in golf. Not just beat them, shatter them.
Consider that Jack Nicklaus, the person many feel is the 2nd best golfer of all time was 38 years old when he won his 14 major compared to Tiger at 32. That's 6 years, 24 major tournaments. Tiger has won 14 majors in 12 years. That is a little more than one a year. He has won 6 of the last 10 majors. At that pace, he will beat Nicklaus's record of major wins by the time he is 35!! Most golfers have their prime through the their 30's. Sam Snead has the most tourney wins over all with 82. His first was in 1936 and his last in 1965. Average of about 3 a year. Tiger has 63 in 11 1/2 years or about 5.5 a year. If Tiger was to play the 29 years Snead did, he will nearly DOUBLE the most wins in a career.
To put this into perspective, the way Tiger is trending to break records in golf would be the same as a hockey player having 300 point seasons, and having 5000 points in a career.
Tiger is head and shoulders above the next most dominate athlete in a sport you can think of.
Gretzky can play golf and baseball...I'd like to see any of these guys skate.
Unless you just mean best athlete AT THEIR OWN SPORT. But best athlete in general I'm definitely giving to the hockey player.
Also, keep in mind that they don't have Pro-Am Tourney's for hockey either. This slightly reduces the, ahem, athleticism of Golf somewhat. Imagine having a Pro-Am Hockey Game with NHL players in their prime...at all aspects of the game (just like in golf): checking, hitting, slashing, high-sticking, knocking out teeth, blocking slapshots...wait, doesn't golf fall under the "recreational" half of "Sports and Recreation"?
Just my 2 cents worth - I don't typically post in argument threads regarding whether hockey is the greatest/best/most skilled/most athletic/toughest sport because I know that it is and I feel sorry for anyone that doesn't know or understand that this is the case. |
Edited by - 99pickles on 06/17/2008 13:53:20 |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 14:27:04
|
The definition of sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and is generally engaged in competatively.
The arguement of weather or not hockey is the my physical sport or the one where the most skills or athletic gifts are required is not the arguement here.
Golf is a sport by definition and it does take a significant amount of skill. If you have not golfed before try it and tell me how well you do. Most golf courses are designed at par of 72 strokes for 18 holes. I read a stat once that stated that around 3% of the population of people who consider themselves "golfers" can break 100 consistantly. This means that 97% of the people that do golf are 40% worse than "par." Consider how few people can be better than that!!
Golf might not be an athletic sport, but it takes a significant amount of skill, talent, and practice to be good. And even more so to be great. |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 15:42:52
|
June 17, 2008 (III)
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5372 in the Guest Guru’s Blog
Some reason Alex's blog is locked to members only. That's fine I'll highjack this one.
As for comparing to team sports, please reconsider Pele. I mean this is a guy that warring nations stopped fighting just to watch him play. Most dominant and influential team player ever in the 1900s to now is Pele, without a doubt.
My back is against the wall 'cause I know just as much about European sports as I do income taxes. That’s where YouTube comes in handy.
Pele really was the man, the myth and the legend. Talk about a sport that needs skill and athleticism! Every strike of the ball has to be carefully executed, and it’s especially hard to do so when running at breakneck speeds. Many amateurs would trip over their own two feet dribbling a ball around three pylons. Then take into account Pele who wove around opponents to make it seem like the whole darn thing was choreographed before hand.
This whole thing is a learning process but for the time being I will go old school and declare soccer the hardest sport to excel in. Before you chew me apart or accuse me of smoking something (don’t laugh, it’s happened before on this site!) let’s establish some ground rules.
If history is to repeat herself, a bunch of guests will be piping hot after reading this and counter ‘Yeah, but let’s see Pele skate!’ I would stare such a person blankly in the face and say ‘Your point being…?’
True, anybody can play soccer. Impoverished villages in Africa kick around newspapers and get games going. The same holds true for baseball, football, basketball and many other sports. In Harlem there is one rusty hoop for fifty guys to shoot around on. In my neighbourhood every house has the latest and greatest. Guess how many NBA stars we have produced? None. Guess how many New York has? I would venture to say more than none.
The very fact that any Joe Shmo can play these sports proves that it is much harder to be the best. Many NHLers can play other sports. How many can do it well? Hockey takes skill and athleticism, but it is far from the leader in both departments. An Olympic wrestler would give a great big belly laugh if you told him hockey was tops athletically. Golfers would have a field day playing a round with a cocky NHLer who told them golf was a joke.
Anyone who says that hockey is the hardest sport out there has been tuning in to too many Don Cherry segments.
-The New Kid on the Block |
|
|
|
Beans.15
Top Prospect
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 16:36:38
|
| I take back everything I said. I found out that the website I used wasn't using real facts. Wayne Gretzky is by far the better athlete, Tiger Woods does not even compare. |
|
|
|
Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 17:45:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
June 17, 2008 (III)
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5372 in the Guest Guru’s Blog
Some reason Alex's blog is locked to members only. That's fine I'll highjack this one.
As for comparing to team sports, please reconsider Pele. I mean this is a guy that warring nations stopped fighting just to watch him play. Most dominant and influential team player ever in the 1900s to now is Pele, without a doubt.
My back is against the wall 'cause I know just as much about European sports as I do income taxes. That’s where YouTube comes in handy.
Pele really was the man, the myth and the legend. Talk about a sport that needs skill and athleticism! Every strike of the ball has to be carefully executed, and it’s especially hard to do so when running at breakneck speeds. Many amateurs would trip over their own two feet dribbling a ball around three pylons. Then take into account Pele who wove around opponents to make it seem like the whole darn thing was choreographed before hand.
This whole thing is a learning process but for the time being I will go old school and declare soccer the hardest sport to excel in. Before you chew me apart or accuse me of smoking something (don’t laugh, it’s happened before on this site!) let’s establish some ground rules.
If history is to repeat herself, a bunch of guests will be piping hot after reading this and counter ‘Yeah, but let’s see Pele skate!’ I would stare such a person blankly in the face and say ‘Your point being…?’
True, anybody can play soccer. Impoverished villages in Africa kick around newspapers and get games going. The same holds true for baseball, football, basketball and many other sports. In Harlem there is one rusty hoop for fifty guys to shoot around on. In my neighbourhood every house has the latest and greatest. Guess how many NBA stars we have produced? None. Guess how many New York has? I would venture to say more than none.
The very fact that any Joe Shmo can play these sports proves that it is much harder to be the best. Many NHLers can play other sports. How many can do it well? Hockey takes skill and athleticism, but it is far from the leader in both departments. An Olympic wrestler would give a great big belly laugh if you told him hockey was tops athletically. Golfers would have a field day playing a round with a cocky NHLer who told them golf was a joke.
Anyone who says that hockey is the hardest sport out there has been tuning in to too many Don Cherry segments.
-The New Kid on the Block
I do agree with you that soccer is the hardest sport to excel in.
Its a debate i've had with a bunch of my buddies but the general concensus has always been hockey. I have always disagreed.
My point being that in hockey, you do use items to propel you(skates), and a fiberglass stick to let a shot go. In soccer all you have is your body and your mind.
____________________
|
|
|
|
I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 07:50:40
|
Don´t have the energy to write or sit in front of the computer today so I´m just gonna do some namedropping in regards to the most dominent athlete post. You can just google it if any name sounds interesting.
Michael Schumacher / Alain Prost / Ayrton Senna
Alexander Karelin
Eddy Merckx
Sergej Bubka
Carl Lewis
Roman Sebrle
Ingmar Stenmark
Haile Gebrselassie / Kenenisa Bekele
Björn Borg
And finaly the guy who is competing with Pelé for the title best football player ever: Diego Maradona.
|
|
|
|
Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 08:56:12
|
[/quote]
The reason I have so much time is because I do great in school and literally have next to no homework. I studied for only one of my five exams. I got 97, 94, 92, 98 and 100 without more than 5 minutes of studying.
I
-The New Kid on the Block
[/quote]
Those grades are amazing and I thought my 85, 86, 87's were great. |
|
|
|
Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2008 : 16:07:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by FranzenFanatic
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
i would go with brett faurve reggie sanders dion sanders,, why they were dominant in 2 or more major league sports,, they say fauvre could have easily been a mlb short stop and was touted one of the best prospects.. you also have the sanders' who were quite good at both baseball and football,,, i forget the name and don't feel like googling it but some guy in the states was drafted in the first round by nba,mlb and the nfl... thats pretty dominant,, if chris drury had never blown out his arm he would have been a major league pitcher,,, these are in my mind are the most dominant athletes in my mind,,,
Pasty
Shows how much you know about sports, you go thru multi-sport athletes whitout mentioning Bo Jackson the greatest athelete ever!? Who do you think you are
shows what you know about class,, a simple hey pasty you forgot about bo jackson would have been fine but of course the only way weak people make themselves feel good is trying to tear down another,,, feelin good today kiddo??
Pasty |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 06:40:33
|
June 19, 2008 (IV)
Chances are this will be the last time the Alex Blog looks at the debate of ‘most dominant pro-athlete’ for a long time, so get your opinions in before time runs out on you.
Let me demonstrate something. Who is the best hockey player of all time? Gretzky? Howe? Orr? Lemieux? Richard? To tell you the honest truth, over the last year all have had their reign as my number one. And why not? The nature of hockey is such that statistics do not correlate directly into skill level.
The issue becomes that the challenge to excel was not the same for any of these players. What if the second assist was around in the time of Richard? What if Howe had played in the NHL all his life? What if Lemieux had been healthy? What if Orr’s knee wouldn’t have given him such problems? What if Gretzky didn’t have Hall of Famer’s all around him? People can make their bread and butter contemplating the hypothetical to minute intricacies, and would still not be able to provide us with a universally accepted answer.
Forget most dominant athlete; can we even say that Gretzky was the most dominant hockey player ever? Remember, dominant and best do not mean the same thing. For argument’s sake, let us assume Gretz is in fact the most dominant hockey player ever (which is the opinion we have been holding by until now). Was he the best? Conversely, some would say he was the best but not the most dominant. The search for hockey’s greatest shall be forever shrouded by many different contributing factors.
Not so my friends with golf. We’re talking about a game that dates back 900 years and has always been governed by the same set of rules. A par is a par is a par; a birdie is a birdie is a birdie. No teammates can be credited with the success of Tiger Woods. The variables have been so carefully removed to the point that they even play on the same courses every year, year after year after year.
Do you see what I mean? Tiger Woods plays golf the way Jack Nicklaus played it, the way the Duke of Scotland played it, and the way the next up and coming golf stud will play it – and he got the better of them all.
The only difference is the always changing technology, but nobody serious can really say ‘Well if Jack would have had a Putter5000 or a Driver98Z, then…’ Get real. Of course, we will always have the smarty pants that looks for imperfections in an imperfect world and will pounce on this issue of technology. I cordially invite such a person to go soak his head, courtesy of the Alex Blog.
And with that, the curtain closes on the greatest debate my humble little blog has ever seen.
P.S. Keep your eyes peeled, because I will delve deep into the ‘Best Hockey Player Ever’ debate some time this summer. Happy reading!
-The New Kid on the Block |
Edited by - Alex on 06/19/2008 15:25:28 |
|
|
|
I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 10:06:11
|
Good point Mardigras
Ok Maradona may not be a very likable person but that still can´t take away his accomplishments in any way.
Personally I have go with "The Meanest man alive", "The General", "The Russian Bear" etc Mr Alexander Karelin as the most dominating athlete ever. Molded and shaped by Siberia Karelin makes other strong men look like girly-men trying to get buffed in gyms.
3 Olympic gold medals
9 WC gold medals
Undefeated and didn´t loose one match between 1987-2000
Didn´t loose a single point the last 6 years before finally loosing to Rulon Gardner in the Olympic final of the year 2000. |
|
|
|
MardiGras
Top Prospect
20 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 10:39:09
|
(just to fill in the gaps)
for all those wonderin, guest5372 commented in the guest gurus blog cause this one doesnt allow guests for some reason, i think its a glitch.
im also canadion mentioned that Diego Maradona deserves to be compared to pele, guest 8372 didn't like that, and now Im Also Canadion replied. I told him to reply in this thread rather than guest gurus, and thats what he did.
id also like to say that i think the mods should move the guests posts who replied to alex's blog in guest gurus thread into this thread, its becoming a mess because of the glitch |
Edited by - MardiGras on 06/19/2008 10:40:09 |
|
|
|
SuperSakic
Rookie
Canada
192 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 10:58:58
|
Sorry it took me a while to respond to this but I was inundated with work...
Yes Gretzky had protection. And why was that? Because he was the Golden Goose. He was the guy that was going to win them the games. You protect your assets in a sport where players crush others while skating at very high speeds. Tiger is in no such situation, so I really don't see your point.
And no, putting the Great One into a one-on-one battle against any other player is NOT like putting him in a lion's den. Why would he necessarily get thrown around like a rag doll? Try to imagine it for yourself. Here we have Gretzky on one side (let's say in his prime for argument's sake), and on the other side we have Cliff Ronning. For one, Cliff Ronning would never be able to throw Gretz around, and two, he is not as good as Gretz. Even if you took a big bruiser as the opponent, don't you think that Gretzky would have the skating skills to avoid such a person, since they are the only two people on the huge ice surface? As well, I think that scenario will be all about speed and skill and less about one's ability to throw body checks. By the time the opponent did get lucky and managed to land a body check, I'm sure Gretzky would have scored something like 10-15 goals already. Remember, in order to win you have to score as well.
"My retired gramps or a boy fresh out of high school can both compete for the same ultimate prize. That’s how fierce the competition is." Sorry, but, uh-uh. Have you actually ever seen that happen? Until you can actually cite an example I don't think that ANY average aged grand father or young highschooler is going to be playing against the likes of Tiger. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Definitely not!
Did Gordie Howe play till his son was playing with him? Yes he did. So your argument doesn't really hold water.
QUOTE: "Do you realize how hard it is to stay at the top of your game over the course of a pro-golf career? In hockey if one player has a bad came, the rest of the team can shoulder the load. Not so with golf. You have to oust every single other player sharing the green with you. It’s a game of inches where one bad judgment call can cost you an entire tournament. To win one such event is a true feat; to do what Tiger is doing is next to inconceivable."
No I don't know how hard it is to stay at the top of your game in golf, but I don't really care either. I know how hard it is However, if the hockey player having a bad game is named "Gretzky", then you have a serious problem on your hands. The value that Gretzky had to his teams was tremendous. He raised other players' games, not the other way around.
A bad call in OT in the 7th game of the playoffs will cost you as well... |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2008 : 21:58:44
|
I'm not saying he is THE most dominant athlete ever, and he certainly isn't coming off his best moment for this discussion, but there is a nice, quiet, yeah and I guess boring, Swiss tennis player out there who has been in every Grand Slam tennis final but three since July of 2004, winning 10 of them in that period (plus the one in 2003 and Australian in Jan, 2004, making 12 total).
Edit - I had to adjust my dates/numbers slightly above after remembering the semis loss at the French in 2005 - still pretty incredible numbers though
The main blemish on his record in that period - when you come right down to it, arguably (very arguably) the greatest clay court tennis player in history. Everyone will trash the idea of his dominance based on his losses to that Spanish guy, particularly at that one tournament that he must have nightmares about, but I throw this at you. THAT tournament is in some ways the greatest testament to his greatness. By far not the best surface for his game and he STILL has won every match he has played there in the last 4 years except for those against the aforementioned Spanish guy, again very arguably the greatest clay court tennis player ever.
I'm not saying he is the most dominant. The blemish is certainly there for all to see. But don't discount too quickly what this Swiss guy has done since 2004. The guy may be boring, but he at least needs to be mentioned.
|
Edited by - andyhack on 06/20/2008 08:00:36 |
|
|
|
I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 01:54:58
|
I don´t see Federer as boring. He could be the best overall tennis player ever. But when it comes to dominance I don´t think he has the goods yet to compare to Björn Borg. Borg won Wimbledon and the French open the same year for 3 consecutive years wich is pretty sick. (Grand Slams wasn´t held as highly back then as they are today).
It´s always hard to compare sportsmen from different eras who uses equipment as the equipment changes from year to year, downhill skiing is an extreme example.
Borg claims that Federer is the best ever and Federer on the other hand says he will never be as good as Borg, (typical isn´t it? ).
Borg was ahead of his time in many ways in how he played but against my natural bias I have to say that Federer is the best tennis player ever just ahead of Borg.
Btw I´m aware that this is a site dedicated to hockey but I´ll let Alex decide when to pull the plug so to speak on this one.
|
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 04:09:10
|
(Feel free to keep the other debate alive if you wish. For myself, I will move on, in favour to those who want to read about something else. You are welcome to respond to ANY previous blog though whenever you please.)
June 20, 2008
Kyle Beach is just not worth the aggravation. Might this be a case of bowing to the media while actually knowing nothing about anything? It’s possible. Many of us probably would not have known the guy from a hole in the wall before he became relevant in hockey circles. Suddenly he breaks out onto the NHL scene, and it seems like wherever he goes he can’t shake the bad vibe following him like a plague of locusts.
TSN went public with a video interview they had with Mr. Beach. He tears a page right out of the ABBA songbook with his message: take a chance on me.
(Here's the link to the video:) http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip61004#clip61004
Kyle, a temperamental albeit skilled hockey player has been portrayed as a guy who has worse mood swings than a woman going through menopause. This whole thing is all very up in the air at this point, and really comes down to how you buy into it. Kyle could make the case that it’s a matter of viewpoint; that this is all subjective. Good and fine.
Tell me Mr. Smooth Talker, how subjective is 422 PIM? Nothing subjective there. What about 25 fights? Let’s see you worm your way out of that one young man.
Am I a shrink? Thank heavens not. Kyle may very well turn out to be the sharpest shooter in the league. He may very well smarten up and prove to be gold once he works out his rough edges. He may become the essence of sportsmanship. At this point, it’s not in the cards.
Ask yourself as a GM, why take the risk? Logistically speaking, if Kyle is a candidate for you then you have a pick between about 6th and 15th, give or take. There’s a little principle called K.I.S.S., ‘keep it simple, stupid’. You’d be wise to follow that dogma.
What if this guy is a flop? What if he ends up being a pouty jerk that just creates tension in the locker room a la Ray Emery? With a pick in the top 15, you could have any player become a franchise player if you hone his skills properly. The value is just not there in giving that up on a guy who can’t as much as control his emotions for more than five minutes at a time. You can’t go wrong with a pick as good as you have. Picking a guy with a reputation for getting himself into hot water is plain and simple foolish.
When Kyle becomes the next Shanahan, well then I’ll bite my tongue. Until then the onus is on you, GMs of the world, to make the smart hockey move.
-The New Kid on the Block |
Edited by - Alex on 06/20/2008 04:27:48 |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 07:50:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by I´m also Cånädiön
I don´t see Federer as boring. He could be the best overall tennis player ever. But when it comes to dominance I don´t think he has the goods yet to compare to Björn Borg. Borg won Wimbledon and the French open the same year for 3 consecutive years wich is pretty sick. (Grand Slams wasn´t held as highly back then as they are today).
I have great respect for what Borg did but as great as Borg was, if we are talking about "dominance" across the board of the Grand Slams, his record, amazing as it is with the Frenches and The Ws, still actually doesn't reach the level of Federers (as Borg never won a U.S. Open). But to say this given the amazing feats of Borg that you rightly mention is yet just another testament to Federer.
Another point is that in Borg's days, though it was "top heavy" with some great players in the top 5, they didn't have nearly the competition in the early rounds. This is my point about Roger and the French. The fact that he is "just" making it to the finals of the French is a HUGE accomplishment. Sampras didn't make it to one, and only made the semis once! This point doesn't get enough play - any play actually, as everyone focuses on the disappointment at his always losing to Nadal (which is understandable actually). But think about it. We are talking about the defending 5 time Wimbledon champ, defending 4 time U.S. Open champ and the now THREE time French Open finalist, losing only to a guy who has NEVER lost in Paris.
Maybe not THE most dominant athlete ever, but he has done something VERY special in the last few years. |
Edited by - andyhack on 06/20/2008 07:55:30 |
|
|
|
willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 09:19:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
Maybe not THE most dominant athlete ever, but he has done something VERY special in the last few years.
Yes the Robot marches on... Booooooooringggggg....
I'll take Sampras or Aggasi or Johnny Mac. They were entertaining.
Borg was pretty fantastic though.
Sidenote: I haven't read a word of this thread since the first post or so until I saw Andyhack had posted in it. Had to see what Andy had to say.
That's the mark of a great poster. If you see their name and go into a thread because you want to read what they have to say. Didn't have anything to do with his post count...
But that's another thread. |
|
|
|
I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 12:41:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
But think about it. We are talking about the defending 5 time Wimbledon champ, defending 4 time U.S. Open champ and the now THREE time French Open finalist, losing only to a guy who has NEVER lost in Paris.
Maybe not THE most dominant athlete ever, but he has done something VERY special in the last few years.
Lets make a quick comparison of titles between Borg and Federer. Federer has: 5 W, 4 US and has lost in the F final 3 times.
Borg has: 5 W, 6 F and has lost in the US finals 4 times.
Conclusion when only counting titles: Borg > Federer
Edit: Ok Federer has some Australian open titles too but the really prestigious are Wimbledon and the French Open wich are set apart by the differance in the surface they are played on. |
Edited by - I´m also Cånädiön on 06/20/2008 13:38:11 |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 13:57:45
|
I am truly touched that one of the debates I started is so highly discussed! I encourage you to keep it alive as long as you feel, especially when it draws our most respected posters like WIllus, AndyHack, I'mAlsoCanadion, etc. I will continue to post other topics, but you do as you please! The Alex Blog survives on its readers!
June 21, 2008
Ah, the big bad Gary strikes again. Run children, run!
Now, now fellow forum members. Don’t go scurrying off to Google to get yourself up to date on the latest dirt the NHL has to offer. This really isn’t a case for the town crier. But nonetheless, at a time when the focus should be entirely devoted to the crop of talent coming into the system, the NHL itself feels to the need to cast a dark cloud over the festivities. Way to go.
The people in the NHL’s front office should go back to their high school days, when living life on the wild side meant mixing a cup of real coffee in with the decaf. Now they’ve grown up, become important, and are on a power trip, looking to avenge years and years of torment at the hands of the ‘cool’ kids.
OK, that’s probably not the real story. But it’s always fun to be the guy behind the tabloids.
What happened here was a textbook case of corporate bullying. The New York Rangers and MSG had to hand over the keys of their website and other promotions to the League, or face consequences Collin Campbell pulled straight out of his ass.
What the hell is the league so freaking worried about? Do they expect the team to post pictures of scantily clad women all over its website? Are they worried that the New York Rangers will use their internet domain to start another ‘ILOVEYOU’ virus or recruit religious extremists?
It’s obvious what the true story is here. The NHL wants every article on its website and within its network to be 100 percent politically correct. It all makes perfect sense.
Have you ever noticed that RedWings.NHL.com never predicted the outcome of any game the entire season? Have you ever noticed that Capitals.NHL.com never dared say that Alex Ovechkin would win the Rocket Richard or Art Ross trophy until every last game was played? We all knew what would happen just as they all knew what would happen. But everything has to be impartial in the NHL, that’s just the way it is. Perfectly boring.
What likely happened is that the group of New York investors head manning the New York Rangers organization was looking for a little creative zest on their website, and apparently that’s a crime.
On a weekend where all should have been good and well for the NHL, the League’s stock just dropped lower than Nortel.
-The New Kid on the Block |
Edited by - Alex on 06/27/2008 11:35:01 |
|
|
|
MardiGras
Top Prospect
20 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 15:26:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
The people in the NHL’s front office should go back to their high school days, when living life on the wild side meant mixing a cup of real coffee in with the decaf.
What the hell is the league so freaking worried about? Do they expect the team to post pictures of scantily clad women all over its website? Are they worried that the New York Rangers will use their internet domain to start another ‘ILOVEYOU’ virus or recruit religious extremists?
On a weekend where all should have been good and well for the NHL, the League’s stock just dropped lower than Nortel.
Haha friggin hilarious i'm lovin it! it's so true though the nhl paranoid about making sure everyone is happy WAKE UP live in the real world we won't sue you if you make predictions, the NFL generates tons of fans and money putting odds on teams and getting gamblers, and in case you didnt realize the nfl is just a lil bit more succesful than your little hockey league |
|
|
|
BradTheBadDad
Top Prospect
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2008 : 15:35:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
Ask yourself as a GM, why take the risk? Logistically speaking, if Kyle [Beach] is a candidate for you then you have a pick between about 6th and 15th, give or take. There’s a little principle called K.I.S.S., ‘keep it simple, stupid’. You’d be wise to follow that dogma.
With a pick in the top 15, you could have any player become a franchise player if you hone his skills properly. The value is just not there in giving that up on a guy who can’t as much as control his emotions for more than five minutes at a time. You can’t go wrong with a pick as good as you have. Picking a guy with a reputation for getting himself into hot water is plain and simple foolish.
The voice of inner reason has spoken!
That's a great argument right there. This draft is so deep, and essentially you're right, anyone in the top 15 this year is darn lucky they have that pick this year and not other years. If a GM tries to be the genious by picking Beach, they might end up paying. Even if in the end of the day that's not the case, you're right, it's not worth the risk.
Any money says Fletcher ends up being the idiot stuck with a moody kid. It just fits so well with the Leafs hard luck at this point, I can really see Beach on the Leafs being a flop.
''Eat. Sleep. Hockey'' |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 00:58:55
|
June 22, 2008
So Gary Bettman’s a putz. Enough already! You’d think they’d let well enough be alone. But NOO!
On Friday the man got booed like it’s going out of style. A freakin’ disgrace. God help us the day Spain starts feeding into the NHL. Can anyone say ‘La Tomatina?’ Heck, let’s do one better. Just dunk him into a pool of sharks and that’s that.
Or better yet, how about we just stop booing.
Is this the way for civilized people to conduct themselves? Is it all that necessary to sabotage one of the greatest events and bring its coordinator down with it? Maybe in some third world country they run things this way. I’d like to think the NHL and its fans hold themselves to a higher standard than that.
Don’t shove your ‘Free Speech’ pamphlets under my nose. We’re all entitled to our beliefs, amen, amen, amen. But rowdy young punks who don’t know the first thing about what goes on in the NHL have no business screaming blue murder.
We’re talking about a man that devotes every waking moment to improving the NHL and making everyone happy. Anyone with in-laws knows that there’s no such a thing in this world of ours. YOU try getting 30 owners, upwards of 600 players, and a fan base spanning a continent all on the same page.
Gary laughed it off. ‘Thank-you for warmly welcoming us to your city.’ The audience chuckles, and that’s that. Maybe next year they’ll keep it down to a roar. But do you know how much that probably hurts? Gary Bettman is constantly finding himself with the short end of the hockey stick.
It defies me how the Nation’s Capital can have the balls to mock this man. If they dislike his league so much than they should give their seat to a kid sitting at home who’d appreciate being there.
Gary has a wife and kids at home. Imagine Mommy says ‘Come guys, let’s watch Daddy on T.V.’ What a disaster that turns out to be. No one deserves this.
It’s an unforgiving world out there. Artists have a rough time keeping it in their pants when they get to draw a Bettman cartoon – the beady eyes, huge ears, slanted forehead and what not. We all love cracking the odd joke here and there about the NHL commissioner around the dinner table. Buddies at the bar take turns throwing darts at a target of the guy. Seems like he don’t have a friend in the world.
But one night a year, we should shut up and let him drive. I’d reckon he works hard enough to deserve it.
-The New Kid on the Block |
Edited by - Alex on 06/22/2008 06:05:31 |
|
|
|
99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 07:11:09
|
Two things here...
1) Alex, I swear that your writing has improved by leaps and bounds - I commend you!
2) That last post of yours shows me one thing: you and I are the only two guys in the whole world that are appreciative of the amount of hard work that Bettman does for this league. Although there are a couple things I don't like (un-naming the divisions, for one), there are a lot of difficult decisions that had to be made during his watch, so it is unfair to blame him for what has happened. He has worked tirelessly during hard times to make things as painless as possible.
-- without him the league would have shut down for a lot longer than the one season that we lost
--the NHL is STILL regarded as the league that has the best internet presence, the best use of it's website, the best overall multi-media availability and marketing attack (the commish even has his own live radio show!!)
--several new trophies brought in during his tenure
-- far superior package provided by Versus over that of ESPN2 ; this was another excellent decision that people didn't believe in up front (including me) but in hindsight has proven to be a great call
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I could go on and on, but the point is this, Gary Bettman cares very much for this league and this sport. Look at the style by which all the previous commishes have ran the league, and the things they did (and didn't do)....
Frank Calder listened to NO ONE and kept all fines for his personal self, even refusing to have a single employee in the NHL in order to do so. It wasn't until in his older age that the league owners had to force him to hire a secretary because he was missing important information during league meetings. Up until his death the NHL had 2 employees: Frank Calder and a secretary. After his death, it was unclear where any money from player's fines ever went to (read "Deceptions and Doublecross" if you don't believe me!)
Mr.Zeigler was in bed with Eagleson. And under his helm, the league stole so much money from the player's union that when Eagleson went down, the NHL was also forced to pay back $50M dollars in stolen pension funds! How embarrassing!! (of many books, read either " The Glory Barons", or "Powerplay" or "Game Misconduct" or all 3 if you don't believe me)
Gil Stein tried to force himself into the Hall of Fame at the end of his tenure!! He also suffered labour woes that people seem to forget about.
Clarence Campbell once caused a little broo-ha-ha in Montreal. And he so refused to expand the league that it wasn't until the threat of a rival league that he capitulated and did so. He expanded into what he believed were the top cities that that rival league was looking at, and that was the sole criteria that he looked at. Very professional. That rival league still started, in the end. (read "50 Years of Hockey" if you have any doubts. "Glory Barons" touches on this too, I believe)
After his short tenure as league president, Red Dutton refused to enter an NHL rink for 35 years!!!! AYFKM !!! This guy just stepped down as league president, and then he never set foot in an NHL arena for nearly 4 decades - half of a lifetime! This fact caused a minor backlash when he was named a Cup Trustee.(reading "Lord Stanley's Cup" will show you I didn't make this one up either)
So you think Gary Bettman is a poor commish???? Take a look at those guys!! And all of that was off the top of my head.
Right now Bettman is the best commissioner that the NHL has ever had. His only fault is that he was at the helm when players stood up for themselves in the modern climate of a healthy player's union. And that's just bad timing, he still did what a commissioner had to do in that situation. But he also took that opportunity to address on-ice concerns, something I am doubtful that ANY of the previous league presidents would have ever thought of doing. I believe they all would have just enjoyed the vacation while the league was shut down...whereas Bettman did what he always does: work tirelessly to help my league and my game.
Now, if I could just get him to look at this instigator rule.... |
|
|
|
colarox
Top Prospect
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 09:00:35
|
great blog alex
go thrasher go! |
|
|
|
BradTheBadDad
Top Prospect
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 10:08:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by 99pickles
Right now Bettman is the best commissioner that the NHL has ever had. His only fault is that he was at the helm when players stood up for themselves in the modern climate of a healthy player's union. And that's just bad timing, he still did what a commissioner had to do in that situation. But he also took that opportunity to address on-ice concerns, something I am doubtful that ANY of the previous league presidents would have ever thought of doing. I believe they all would have just enjoyed the vacation while the league was shut down...whereas Bettman did what he always does: work tirelessly to help my league and my game.
Now, if I could just get him to look at this instigator rule....
My sentiments exactly! We give Bettman so much heat... do we know why? 99pickles that was a really great post. I encourage everyone to read it.
By the way Alex, you have a great way of writing about things that really get the ol' wheels turning. It's a gift.
Great job yet again. Keep it up!
''Eat. Sleep. Hockey'' |
Edited by - BradTheBadDad on 06/22/2008 17:46:03 |
|
|
|
FranzenFanatic
Top Prospect
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 11:59:28
|
where do we get these kooks? The whole world agrees bettmans an idiot, but alex and 99 pickles and BTBD disagree, how sweet 
im surrounded by retards. bettman destroyed our game, everyone knows it but you three, so why dont you all get together and enjoy each other and leave the rest of us who think he's an idiot alone and away from your babbling |
|
|
|
99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 16:10:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by FranzenFanatic
where do we get these kooks? The whole world agrees bettmans an idiot, but alex and 99 pickles and BTBD disagree, how sweet
im surrounded by retards. bettman destroyed our game, everyone knows it but you three, so why dont you all get together and enjoy each other and leave the rest of us who think he's an idiot alone and away from your babbling
In this wonderfully articulate post, you pose no rebuttal whatsoever to prove your case. Oh please, you mental giant, please convince me with factual proof how Bettman ruined the league. Otherwise you are just a sheep who is saying "Down with Bettman" because it is the chic thing to do. I also invite the intelligent members to do the same AFTER you have done so. Why?? Because you will just repeat their intelligent comments...and I know they will have something worthwhile to say.
Are you the mule, or a just jack-ass? |
|
|
|
Leafs_Fan_67
Top Prospect
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 19:12:17
|
I liked your blog about Kyle Beach. I was cringing imagining the Leafs getting him, but out of nowhere Cliff pulls off a brilliat move and lands Luke Schenn. Wow.
The final step for this season in terms of bringing the Leafs some fresh sets of legs is inking guys from the Swedish Elite League if you ask me.
But sticking to topic, what do you people make out of Kyle Beach in Chicago? Will he help or hurt the team? Around older guys I would have had no problem because they know how to field temper swings and the like, but in Chicago I'm feeling like it will either be gold or a disaster. |
|
|
|
PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 19:34:58
|
I think Kyle Beach will be just fine. He can become a good pest. And I think he will have a good attitude being with Jonathan Toews and Pat Kane. Two very mature kids. Rumours are going around that Brian Campbell is going to Chicago. With him that team will definatly be in the playoff hunt and a guy like Kyle Beach could help being that pest.
When the going gets tough....the tough get going! |
|
|
|
Leafs_Fan_67
Top Prospect
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 19:42:22
|
You make a great point PainTrain. I never heard the Campbell rumours, but if that's true... whoa. Scary.
Do you realize how many teams will be good this year? Realistically speaking all these teams have a chance as their roster stands today to win the cup:
Carolina
Chicago
Dallas
Detroit - (for the record, they're my pick)
Edmonton
Montreal
Ottawa
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Pittsburgh
San Jose
Tampa Bay
Washington.
I can actually see ALL 13 of these teams being good enough. It's nuts! What do you guys say? |
|
|
|
Gostarsgo12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 20:44:07
|
| Tampa Bay I wouldn't consider a contender yet. Theres a lack of depth on defence and as much as I thought Smith could be Dallas #1 there for a while he still is a bit shaky. But Tampa could pick up some d via free agency and be threat in the East. With Stamkos, Lecavilier, and St.Louis there wicked up front. |
|
|
|
99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2008 : 21:12:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs_Fan_67
You make a great point PainTrain. I never heard the Campbell rumours, but if that's true... whoa. Scary.
Do you realize how many teams will be good this year? Realistically speaking all these teams have a chance as their roster stands today to win the cup:
Carolina
Chicago
Dallas
Detroit - (for the record, they're my pick)
Edmonton
Montreal
Ottawa
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Pittsburgh
San Jose
Tampa Bay
Washington.
I can actually see ALL 13 of these teams being good enough. It's nuts! What do you guys say?
My humble thoughts here:
Carolina is treading water, I think they'll be in close to the same position next year as they were this year. Definitely not a contender.
Chicago is still a couple steps away - maybe a contender the season after next? Hopefully they don't implode or bottom out on the way, they need a couple of hard-nosed veterans to lead these kids or else it could turn into a frat-house.
Dallas is definitely in the top handful of contenders.
Detroit - always a contender. Another late draft gem with that last overall pick yesterday??
Edmonton is not a contender, I wonder if they'll make the playoffs next year. Or the year after that - sorry Oil fans 
Montreal - what an unexpected season! Do they move up from here next season? Carboneau was coach of the year this year as far as I'm concerned, but I don't know if they should expect more from next year, I would be happy if they stayed steady or only slipped a little.
Ottawa - This team is headed in the wrong direction. What a train wreck. They may have fixed some of their problems with the latest Emery move, but is that enough?? Was that even the biggest problem?? Who knows, but this team has the talent to be in that top handful for sure.
Philly - I suppose they have to be considered in that top handful of contenders, they made it to the semis, right??
Phoenix - Not a contender, yet. They are about one step behind Chicago, and like Chicago, these guys could stumble along the way.
Pittsburgh - Definitely a contender, obviously. Even if Malkin signed to the Russian league.
San Jose - Looks like they are about steady right where they are, a semi-contender!! Unless that Campbell rumour is true, then it's all-bets-off.
Tampa Bay - Semi-contender at best, I don't think they'll rebound too quickly from last year's disaster. Whatever the problems were can't been fixed that quickly - unless they tanked it??? hmmm...
Washington - If they are one step behind Pittsburgh, then they should come pretty close next year, no? |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 04:15:25
|
June 23, 2008
Is the National Hockey League the best place to play in the world? Depends who you ask.
Well let me say this: The NHL owners have my blessing to waltz around in their tight suits, under the false impression that they are invincible. Down in the real world it’s becoming apparent that the NHL isn’t the only option.
Toss all that NHL propaganda off to the side. How quick we seem to forget, it was only thirty years ago that the last WHA game was played. The NHL has failed to get its foot in the world’s living room and establish itself as the elite of the elite.
As a player from overseas, what does the NHL have that some Toppen Hockey Förbund can't provide? Mother Russia rolls out the red carpet and serves you on a silver platter. Their portfolio offers twelve million reasons why you should play for them – pretty compelling stuff.
How can you be so sure the who’s who of the hockey world are all playing in the NHL? I bet there are scores of Tretiaks who could have skated circles around the guys in the NHL if they wanted to but elected not to make the trip. Over in Japan, the demand for hockey is booming. The best hockey player in the world may very well be named Ying Yang Lee and we would never know it. The fact of the matter is, the NHL is just not reaching out to all the best players in the world. As a foreigner, the grass is greener at home.
Imagine a two on one in the NHL where Malkin screams out to Malone to pass him the puck but forgets to Americanize his dialect. Both benches would go into lockdown, thinking there’s some bomb threat or something!  We underestimate how much of a strain it is on these guys to leave the comforts of home and put on a show for us on a nightly basis.
Europeans arrive by the dozen and have their training wheels stripped off before they even know what hit them. The culture shock is incredible! Why would a legend in Sweden want to come over to North American shores and have to sell himself anew to an audience that wouldn’t know him from a lady’s perfume?
The lockout was a rude awakening to the NHL. When daddy oversteps his boundaries, we all run off to mommy to kiss it better.
TO BE CONTINUED |
Edited by - Alex on 06/23/2008 04:18:58 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Canada - Russia rap 
