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Guest6028
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 Posted - 11/06/2008 : 21:35:25
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| gordie howe for sure..he could do everything on the ice..better than gretzky because he could stick up for himself, no enforcer needed to keep him healthy..if someone did something to him he would f*** them up not wait till semenko or mcsorley came to save his ass |
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Guest6028
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Posted - 11/06/2008 : 21:42:34
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howe, messier, orr, gretzky, lemieux
orr was amazing for his short career and had his knees not given out who knows how he would have done, messier up there because he was in the same mold as howe, strong 2 way player and could throw down if need be, gretzky put up ridiculous numbers but just not good enough both ways to be the greatest, maybe the greatest goal scorer but not the best player |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 17:29:55
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| Bobby orr was a very talented defenceman.playmaker,penalty killer,sportsmanship,and he has a good slapshot,he was good for his short career. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 18:02:58
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12
Bobby orr was a very talented defenceman.playmaker,penalty killer,sportsmanship,and he has a good slapshot,he was good for his short career.
Bobby orr was good but he didn't have a short career,he was like in the NHL for 15 yrs. or more and Gretzky is a good playmaker too. |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 18:18:08
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| i know he didnt have a short career i'm just sayin that he did good the first couple of years he played. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2008 : 18:51:06
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Phillyfan and Brentrock, do some research before you post. Clearly neither of you have any idea who Orr is.
"he did good the first couple years he played", "in the NHL for 15 years".
Nice work guys. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 01:59:42
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http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4085
If you actually want to contribute to the site maybe you should look some stuff up before you start posting this is a link to were you can see Orrs stats. Orr played 12 seasons, though the last 3 combined for 36 games, and he missed an entire season in there, He only played more then 60 games 8 times more then 70 5 times and 80 just once. Just thought I'd throw that in considering there are people who have no idea argueing.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2008 : 12:26:22
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Thx Cauncks man,that site really helped about bobby orr.Now i know about him more.thanks. |
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Guest2295
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Posted - 11/11/2008 : 03:18:11
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| I dont even know who Bobby Orr is.he he forward or defence |
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Guest7970
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Posted - 11/11/2008 : 08:55:04
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I 'd say Steve Yzerman, best all round player.
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Mikey Boy
Rookie
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 14:48:31
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Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Yzerman
MP |
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Guest2213
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Posted - 11/12/2008 : 15:42:49
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Gretzky
Howe
lemieux
richard |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 15:53:28
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I have said this before and I will say it again,
Anyone's top 5 list that does not include Gretzky and Orr is watching another sport than the rest of us. Although I can agree that some might think differently on the other 3 spots, I just can't seem to get over anyone not having at least these two on the list.
Orr was the most completely player to ever play the game and Gretzky was so far (light years) ahead of anyone else on the ice(specifically on offense) there is no doubt that they belong there.
I can see how anyone could exclude either one from their list. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 11:20:06
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Lemieux
Howe
Gretzky
Orr
Richard
These are the players I think that are the best players of all time. |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 13:45:30
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| brentrock2,you think Lemiuex is the best player and Orr one of your last,you are stunned |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 14:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12
brentrock2,you think Lemiuex is the best player and Orr one of your last,you are stunned
No,I just listed the players that I think are the best,I didn't put them in order from greatest to least because I would of listed them like this:
Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Richard
See phillyfan12, Orr is my 3rd pick in my order from greatest to least, of the greatest hockey players of all time.I think anybody else can tell that this is really not my order from greatest to least:
Lemieux
Howe
Gretzky
Orr
Richard |
Edited by - brentrock2 on 11/13/2008 14:03:16 |
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Guest4023
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Posted - 11/13/2008 : 22:21:58
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| Gretzky, then Lemieux. Wayner had over 2800 points! Who else on any horizon is going to take that record? Break it down, that's fourteen 200 point seasons. Is anyone even going to get one 200 point season? |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 12:08:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4023
Gretzky, then Lemieux. Wayner had over 2800 points! Who else on any horizon is going to take that record? Break it down, that's fourteen 200 point seasons. Is anyone even going to get one 200 point season?
yeah oveckin or crosby will probally eventuly going to get 200 points a season or semin. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 12:10:34
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| I don't think they will get 200 points per season. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 12:38:26
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OK, couple of comments.
Firstly, Phillyfan and Brentrock, please stop with the one line posts. They do not add a single thing to the thread or site. If you don't have something reasonably quality to say, don't bother.
Secondly, did someone actually say that Crosby, Ovechkin, or Semin will get 200 points in a season???? WHAT???
Let's look back at how many players in history have got 200 or more points in a season. Don't think too hard, there has been only 1. Mr. Gretzky. In fact, lets look at how many players have had seasons of more than 150 points??This one takes a little longer, there have been 5. Gretzky, Lemiuex, Esposito, Nicholls, and Yzerman.
That being said, there have only be something like 3 players since 2000 to have more than 120 points in a season. Crosby, Jagr, and Thornton.
Seriously, there will never be another 200 points season in the current structure of the NHL. I would find that a season of more than 130 point would be beyond amazing.
And Semin??? Seriously, the guy is on a hot streak and that is about it. What did he have last year, 43 points?? C'mon. Even if he kept his current place for the rest of the season, he would end up with 147 points. He is on absolute fire and he wouldn't finish with even a 150 point season.
200 points in one year?? Only if you add together Crosby and Malkin! |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 13:15:53
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Thats because semin was injured,and he has 27 points right now,but he go injured last night. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 13:57:46
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12
Thats because semin was injured,and he has 27 points right now,but he go injured last night.
I know he got injured last night and his injury is called uniclosed I think,but I'm not sure. |
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xbase
Top Prospect
1 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 14:58:39
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Richard is #1
He completely changed the face of the NHL. He brought all those cups to MTL. He fought to protect himself against the entire league. He faced adversity all by himself. He is the best, the others were amazing, but they didn't went through as much as Richard to become a Legend. |
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Guest6197
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Posted - 11/21/2008 : 16:31:39
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| i Say Yzerman |
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Guest6252
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Posted - 11/22/2008 : 11:56:17
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Federov is my favorite player he did awesome in detroit and is king of colunbus (which team suks)anyway hes amazing good bye but gorde howe is a legend also and im sayin this because they were both on detoit and detroit is my favorite team lol.
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Guest6166
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Posted - 12/17/2008 : 17:44:10
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| wheres yzerman |
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Guest4077
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Posted - 12/18/2008 : 20:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12
What player do you think is the best player of all times?
the best player ever was by far was 14 MR DAVE KEON[ |
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runtman444
Top Prospect
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2008 : 04:40:15
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| you guys complain that these young fellows created this forum and it has been done before well you can ignore it if you see a headline that says best player ever and you know that you are not going to like it ignore it, insteaad of trying to discourage these young fellows from talking about the greatest game on earth! canucks rule |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 15:17:53
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| guest4077 why you think dave keon is the player |
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rjsoil1
Top Prospect
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2009 : 15:22:27
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| Are you kidding me, Orr would brutalize Gretsky! |
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Guest5476
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Posted - 03/07/2009 : 06:25:46
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillyFan12
What player do you think is the best player of all times?
If the NHL had insituted new no hit rules for Mr. Orr as the did for number 99 he would probably still be playing at his age and still giving the rest of the league fits trying to stop him. However the NHL of that era let no talent no brain goofballs like Pat Quinn hit great players like Orr late and dirty and get away with it. |
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shazariahl
Top Prospect
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 01:21:23
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Really? What no hit rules? If the NHL instituted it, there must be a link to it somewhere, right? I mean, I can find links to all the other NHL rules, but I can't find that one. Also, isn't it weird that Gretzky would have bodyguards when the league already instituted a no hit rule? Why would the Oilers waste a spot on their roster for Semenko when there was already a no hit rule to protect their star player? It couldn't have been for his talent, because we all know Big Dave was a little short on that.
Orr didn't retire because of guys like Quinn hitting him (Orr even said it wasn't that bad a hit, he just got caught with his head down). He retired because he played a rough, physical style that took a brutal toll on his body. When doctors and teammates told him to let up, he wouldn't. He gave it everything he had, all the time, and that's what destroyed his knees. But the knees were the result of his own style of play, not of anything else. Even Orr has said as much.
And, on another topic, 200 points? Seriously guys, no one currently playing (and probably no one ever) is going to come even close to that. If anyone breaks 135 it will be amazing. Maybe one day we'll see someone with the talent that Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux had, but it won't be anyone currently in the league. Gretzky's best season he put up 215 points. Malkin and Ovechkin combined for 223 this year. Seriously, no one is remotely close.
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 03:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by shazariahl
And, on another topic, 200 points? Seriously guys, no one currently playing (and probably no one ever) is going to come even close to that. If anyone breaks 135 it will be amazing. Maybe one day we'll see someone with the talent that Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux had, but it won't be anyone currently in the league. Gretzky's best season he put up 215 points. Malkin and Ovechkin combined for 223 this year. Seriously, no one is remotely close.
Hi Shazariahl - the thing is though, comparing a players production back then to another player's production now just doesn't make sense. You have to imagine what Malkin and Ovechkin would have done in the 1980s when point scoring was at a rate that allowed a guy like Denis Maruk to score 60 goals, for just one example (No offense to Maruk, a fine player no doubt, but it's not unreasonable to believe that if he could score 60 back, then Ovie could score 75 plus).
With that in mind, it's not out of the question to imagine that the combined point of the two guys could have topped 300, maybe even 350. I know, this still is short of Wayne's incredible numbers back then. It is, of course, impossible to question that Wayne's offensive production was other-wordly.
BUT, you have to state the issue correctly for the youngsters out there. If you want to say that it's not "remotely close" okay, but that should be as in "200 is a lot more than 150 or 175" not as in "look how many more points Wayne got in '82 than Ovie got this year".
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Edited by - andyhack on 04/12/2009 03:53:02 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 12:22:44
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Andy brings up a great point. Although it will never be an exact science, one can look at the average goals per game over the history of the NHL to try to compare scoring.
For example:
Gretzky 215 points in 1985/86 in a season with an average of 7.9 goals per game.
Compared to 112 points in 2007/08 by Oveckin with an average of 5.6 goals per game.
So the scoring in 1985/86 was 29% higher than in 2007/08 and visa versa.
So Oveckin's 112 would have been closer to 149 points in 85/86 and Gretkzy's 215 in 07/08 would be 153 points.
Gretzky's scoring feats would have still be remarkable in any era, but they are not comparative until you look at the numbers from each era. |
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Guest9244
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Posted - 04/12/2009 : 15:25:57
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The better hockey player... maybe gretzky skills wyse but my favorite player would be M. richard.
He played everygame where ppl targeted his face with sticks and no penatly was called because he was french and the league didnt tolerate french ppl in the league at that time.
Im sry... but if any player at any time would play the game of hockey with his passion and dedication the game would be so much better. Ppl nowadays get hit and drop down and cry (INCLUDING CROSBY).
i would like to see gretzky orr play everygame getting slashed in the face with hockey stick and scoring 5 goals a game.
It is different playing era of hockey and yes gretzky skills wa simply incredibule but what M. richard did for the game of hockey is even more than gretsky. He put canada on the map and french canadian hockey player should thank him for even playing in the game today.
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shazariahl
Top Prospect
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 09:16:34
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I'm well aware of adjusted stats. But even adjusted for era, Gretzky's numbers are the best ever. I didn't bother mentioning that in my post, because the person I was responding to wasn't talking about adjusted stats - they were talking about current players scoring 200 points in today's NHL. I was simply pointing out that no one is even close to that, and will probably never be close to that again.
Obviously when adjusted for era, Gretzky's numbers come down to slightly more reasonable numbers, although they are still insane. But I think it's telling that in Beans post, when we adjust Wayne's numbers down to todays levels, and adjust Ovechkins UP to the 80's, Gretzky STILL has slightly higher numbers. That's with a two way adjustment!
Anyways, my point was simply that Wayne's numbers were insane, and no one is going to come close to them ever. Other people may have been more complete, but it's a team sport - I don't think one player NEEDS to be the most complete to be the best. Gretzky's defense was alright, but certainly nothing spectacular (though he does have th4e best +/- of any forward ever, but that stat is very flawed). But he doesn't have to be, IMO. That's why its a team sport. I'm sure others will have a different opinion, and some of those opinions will be very valid. I just think that his overwhelming offense combined 4 championships is sufficient to make him my choice as number 1.
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shazariahl
Top Prospect
50 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 09:25:27
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Andy - Just for clairity, I was responding to this statement:
[/quote]
yeah oveckin or crosby will probally eventuly going to get 200 points a season or semin.
[/quote]
Like I said, this person, and those who were discussing this statement with him, wasn't referring to adjusted stats. |
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Guest2771
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Posted - 04/14/2009 : 09:30:06
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| i think if gretsgy played now he would suck so much |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 10:10:59
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quote:
Originally posted by sensfan1
Not downplay anything Gretzky accomplished but he posted a 1.92 point per game average over his career being healthy for the most part of it. Lemieux posted a 1.88 point per game over his career which included many unhealthy years. Imagine what type of numbers he would have accomplished if he's had a long healthy career.
Bang on!
And actually, before he retired, he was the only player ever over 2 points per game, it was 2.02 or something like that. He should have stayed retired, becasue when he came back, that is when he fell behind Gretzky in points per game production. You're right, if he was healthy...who knows. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2009 : 11:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
quote:
Originally posted by sensfan1
Not downplay anything Gretzky accomplished but he posted a 1.92 point per game average over his career being healthy for the most part of it. Lemieux posted a 1.88 point per game over his career which included many unhealthy years. Imagine what type of numbers he would have accomplished if he's had a long healthy career.
Bang on!
And actually, before he retired, he was the only player ever over 2 points per game, it was 2.02 or something like that. He should have stayed retired, becasue when he came back, that is when he fell behind Gretzky in points per game production. You're right, if he was healthy...who knows.
I agree with the healthy piece, but saying "if he would have stayed retired because he fell behind Gretzky" is interesting.
If Gretzky would have retired after 10 years in the league, he would have been #3 all time scoring with a PPG average of 2.37. Gretzky has more points in 775 games than Lemiuex did in 915.
Comparing apples to apples, Lemieux's numbers never stack up at any point in their career. Not saying this is telling of what players is better, but the numbers never stack up. |
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best NHL player EVER! 
