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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
 Posted - 12/29/2008 : 00:08:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2794
Are you drunk? I really hope your joking and not this stupid. Why you wouldn't want Pogge to turn out like Price or Fleury is ridiculous. Saying Sabourin is better..umm did you never watch a game when Pittsburgh wasn't a star team and Fleury was peppered with shot after shot and pulled off amazing saves? Remember Fleury didnt always have a team in front of him, and from what I can remeber he had the worst defense in the NHL in front of him not so long ago and still stood is ground.
Making Cujo the starter. Maybe 10 years ago. Joseph hasn't won a game yet this year! He looks sloppy and i hate to say it but his age is starting to show. Trust me man he is good but Toskala is better as of now. Joseph in his prime was better but not now. Justin Pogge's attitude isn't that bad, in fact if you look on a Scouting report they say thats one of his positive traits.
hanley I have seen some pretty dumb comments, but yours might just be the most obscene and stupid I have ever seen. Please lay off the crack pipe
No I'm not drunk and I'm not joking Fleury's rookie year he played 2003-04 he started the season and started but he wasn't good enough yet. he played 21 games allowed 70 goals against had a save % of .896 and a goals against average of 3.64 recording 4 wins 14 losses and 2 OT losses. That's horrible then in 2005-06 season he becomes the Pens number 1 goalie playing 50 games allowed 152 goals had a save % .989 and goals against average of 3.25 recording 13 wins and 27 losses. Fleury is the kind of goalie that needs a good team in front of him to make himself look good, he's really nothing special. Sabourin could do better. Fleury lets s*** get to his head very easy makes him play weak. Fleury is also injury prone. He hasn't impressed me yet.
As for you saying that Cujo hasn't won a game yet this year he hasn't really been given a chance sitting out for 10 games in a row you're not in game shape you're not ready. But When Toskala allowed those 2 goal in the first 4 minutes against Buffalo and they pulled Toskala and allowed Cujo to come in Cujo played a great game sure he allowed 4 goals but he also made alot of great saves. Toskala came back in net and allowed 2 more goals so they both had 4 goals against each other that game but Cujo played better. Toskala does have his moments where he plays a good game but most of the time he flat out sucks, he allows alot of weak goals that he should have easily had.
you can say what you want about me saying obscene and stupid things and to stay off the crack pipe but that is my opinion, everyone has there own opinions and I'm sure alot of people agree with me about Fleury and Toskala. I strongly feel Toronto needs to sit Toskala out for acouple weeks and give Cujo a chance to prove himself and if that doesn't work Trade Toskala for something good. Mike Smith, Steve Mason and if Columbus wants Steve Mason as there number 1 I'd gladly trade toskala for Pascal Leclaire he had 9 shutouts last season and still hasn't fully been himself since coming back from his injury earlier this season, He'd still be better than Toskala |
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Guest2723
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Posted - 12/29/2008 : 07:32:46
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| Toskala is a good goaltender, but the people who keep saying he is a top 10 better start lookin at other goalies, because I know damn well there is 10 goalies that are better. Toskala isn't amazing, He's not gonna get this team in playoff contention in the state their in now, that would be amazing. If Toronto decides to get a solid defense, and a scoring offense, then yes Toskala could get Toronto somewhere because he is a solid goalie. He is not a Martin Brodeur. If you threw Toskala on Detroit he could have a chance at winning the cup, along with most any other goalie, but put him on Toronto hes not gonna pull them out of the sand box. Hes good but he doesn't have the talent to turn a team around. He's gonna steady out, He is not going to make Toronto better or worse. Hes not the problem the Leafs should be looking to solve. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2008 : 08:25:10
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If you are Brian Burke you have to weigh the pros and cons when it comes to dealing away Toskala.
Lets look at some potential cons.
You remove a number 1 goalie from your roster without having a safe bet to replace him. You throw Justin Pogge into the fire and either he sinks or swims, either ruining his career as a maple leaf or vaulting him into messiah status. A big risk. The potential return on Toskala right now, probably isnt very high considering his numbers this season. Could you get a first pick for him? Maybe come trade deadline a team would be desperate enough but its unlikley.
The only pro's I can see coming from trading him would be (like I mentioned above) the potential for Justin pogge to grab the ball and run with it or, on the flip side, the Leafs could finally tank the rest of a season and get a top pick in the draft with a crappy Cujo in net or an inexperienced Pogge.
Best case scenario in my opinion, trade Toskala for a 2nd and a 3rd round pick, also deal away a few core players (antropov, poni, Kubina) and try to finish in the bottom 2. Face it, the playoffs are not a possibility this year and why finish in no-mans land again?
Do the smart thing Burke, get this team a Franchise player and restock the embarassingly bare cupboard of prospects.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 15:59:17
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| Tonight should be a good night for Toronto Cujo is playing so they should win |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 12/30/2008 : 17:39:00
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| Roloson went for a 1st, thats when he was backing Fernandez. A starter on any team will have more value than that. |
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 17:55:48
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| Yes, Cujo is in net tonight..It is halfway through the 2nd period. He hasn't seen too much action and let two goals in at the start of the game. I'm not satisified of yet but I haven't seen enough either. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 19:36:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Yes, Cujo is in net tonight..It is halfway through the 2nd period. He hasn't seen too much action and let two goals in at the start of the game. I'm not satisified of yet but I haven't seen enough either.
Cujo played a great game. He never let in any weak goals tonight like we are all used to seeing Toskala do every game. None of the goals against were Cujo's fault, the second goal was Fingers fault Cujo made the save and Finger knocked the puck in his own net. Congrats Cujo on your 450th career win in his 1st start in a month. In my opinion lots more to come. If I was Ron Wilson Toskala would be backup to Cujo for the rest of the season |
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 20:13:10
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| 1 game man..1 game..don't get too excited. Wait till Cujo has a team shooting against him opposed to Kovalchuk firing shots from all angles. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 21:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
[quote]Originally posted by Hustler90
If I was Ron Wilson Toskala would be backup to Cujo for the rest of the season
Well thank God you're not Ron Wilson! |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 01:15:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
1 game man..1 game..don't get too excited. Wait till Cujo has a team shooting against him opposed to Kovalchuk firing shots from all angles.
Every time Cujo had to replace Toskala because of all of Toskala's stupid mistakes Cujo always played better, made more saves and hasn't let in any weak goals like Toskala does all the time |
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 08:03:58
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| Give Cujo time hanley and he will disappoint you as well. Cujo has shown some weaknesses himself. Like the time he was put in a shootout, he had huge portions of the net wide open. Although I can't blame that all on him he was cold after sitting the whole game and then being thrown in a shootout, that was Ron Wilson's fault, but still Cujo couldn't have done any worse. He looked like a first year midget goalie standing in the net. He is too old and not playing good enough to be Toronto's starter for the rest of the year. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 17:15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Give Cujo time hanley and he will disappoint you as well. Cujo has shown some weaknesses himself. Like the time he was put in a shootout, he had huge portions of the net wide open. Although I can't blame that all on him he was cold after sitting the whole game and then being thrown in a shootout, that was Ron Wilson's fault, but still Cujo couldn't have done any worse. He looked like a first year midget goalie standing in the net. He is too old and not playing good enough to be Toronto's starter for the rest of the year.
that shootout he was cold. was not his fault shootouts are stupid hockey is supposed to be a team effort not an individual effort. He's not that old he's only 41 and still in great shape. He could have another good 2 years left in the NHL. He is the best goalie Toronto has. They just haven't given him a chance because Toskala is making the bigger bucks but they need to start Cujo more if they want to make it to the playoffs because playing Toskala isn't going to get you there. they are only 3 points away from 8th. They are close. They need to play the goalie that doesn't let in a lot of soft goals every game so they need to start Cujo a lot more often |
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 11:01:23
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Give Cujo time hanley and he will disappoint you as well. Cujo has shown some weaknesses himself. Like the time he was put in a shootout, he had huge portions of the net wide open. Although I can't blame that all on him he was cold after sitting the whole game and then being thrown in a shootout, that was Ron Wilson's fault, but still Cujo couldn't have done any worse. He looked like a first year midget goalie standing in the net. He is too old and not playing good enough to be Toronto's starter for the rest of the year.
that shootout he was cold. was not his fault shootouts are stupid hockey is supposed to be a team effort not an individual effort. He's not that old he's only 41 and still in great shape. He could have another good 2 years left in the NHL. He is the best goalie Toronto has. They just haven't given him a chance because Toskala is making the bigger bucks but they need to start Cujo more if they want to make it to the playoffs because playing Toskala isn't going to get you there. they are only 3 points away from 8th. They are close. They need to play the goalie that doesn't let in a lot of soft goals every game so they need to start Cujo a lot more often
Shootouts are part of the game dude, Goalies gotta practice for that stuff too. So basically one on one Cujo is weak but in a scramble he can sprawl around and get lucky is what your saying. He needs a lot of defensive help or he's useless |
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Guest9222
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Posted - 01/01/2009 : 21:34:03
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
that shootout he was cold. was not his fault shootouts are stupid hockey is supposed to be a team effort not an individual effort. He's not that old he's only 41 and still in great shape. He could have another good 2 years left in the NHL. He is the best goalie Toronto has. They just haven't given him a chance because Toskala is making the bigger bucks but they need to start Cujo more if they want to make it to the playoffs because playing Toskala isn't going to get you there. they are only 3 points away from 8th. They are close. They need to play the goalie that doesn't let in a lot of soft goals every game so they need to start Cujo a lot more often
Saying shootouts are stupid is completely ridiculous. It's a great way to show individual skill both from the shooter's and the netminder's point. Although hockey may not be an individual sport, it shows the skills each individuals have in the tougher situations. And no offence to Curtis, he had his moments back in the day, but he's old now. Don't tell me 41 is NOT old, find me how many 40+ players are doing well. And by well, I mean better than Chris Chelios. He might have had a decent game against the Thrashers, (I didn't have a chance to catch it) but from the previous games I've watched, his positioning is worse than Vesa's, and he pretty much hugs the net most of the time, hardly comes out to take out the angle.
Just my opinion. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 00:03:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Give Cujo time hanley and he will disappoint you as well. Cujo has shown some weaknesses himself. Like the time he was put in a shootout, he had huge portions of the net wide open. Although I can't blame that all on him he was cold after sitting the whole game and then being thrown in a shootout, that was Ron Wilson's fault, but still Cujo couldn't have done any worse. He looked like a first year midget goalie standing in the net. He is too old and not playing good enough to be Toronto's starter for the rest of the year.
that shootout he was cold. was not his fault shootouts are stupid hockey is supposed to be a team effort not an individual effort. He's not that old he's only 41 and still in great shape. He could have another good 2 years left in the NHL. He is the best goalie Toronto has. They just haven't given him a chance because Toskala is making the bigger bucks but they need to start Cujo more if they want to make it to the playoffs because playing Toskala isn't going to get you there. they are only 3 points away from 8th. They are close. They need to play the goalie that doesn't let in a lot of soft goals every game so they need to start Cujo a lot more often
Shootouts are part of the game dude, Goalies gotta practice for that stuff too. So basically one on one Cujo is weak but in a scramble he can sprawl around and get lucky is what your saying. He needs a lot of defensive help or he's useless
There is no goalie in the league that is as useless as Toskala |
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Guest9044
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Posted - 01/02/2009 : 05:58:19
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I think the leafs should trade gerber for toskala with the senators.  |
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 08:53:51
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Alright man, If you want to talk letting in weak goals, than how about Cujo last night against Buffalo.
1st Goal against: Long point shot, This one wasn't too bad because he did have traffic in front and Buffalo was on the Powerplay but the shot wasn't redirected or anything.
2nd Goal against: Cujo misses it with his glove and it ends up being hit out of mid-air in the net. Hard to get the second try, but he really should have grabbed the first shot with his trapper.
3rd goal against: Weak as hell. Bad angle, thrown on net. Routine save for Toskala. But that happens from time to time.
4th Goal against: This is the goal that made me think Joseph just isn't NHL material anymore. The old age and flexibility came in to play here. Any goalie should have been able to slide across and get this one. Joseph took so long to get over, you'd swear he was a fat kid playing in a street hockey game.
16 Saves 4 GA on 20 shots, not impressive considering at least 3 out of the 4 goals he should have had. |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 09:00:17
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yea, i woiuldnt say CuJo's performance was a stellar performance. but i mean, his team didnt really show up for him either. he is 41 now, he is in good shape but when you get that old it isnt as easy to play goal, i guess not for belfour, or haseks case but still not all goalies stay sharp when they get older.
quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Alright man, If you want to talk letting in weak goals, than how about Cujo last night against Buffalo.
1st Goal against: Long point shot, This one wasn't too bad because he did have traffic in front and Buffalo was on the Powerplay but the shot wasn't redirected or anything.
2nd Goal against: Cujo misses it with his glove and it ends up being hit out of mid-air in the net. Hard to get the second try, but he really should have grabbed the first shot with his trapper.
3rd goal against: Weak as hell. Bad angle, thrown on net. Routine save for Toskala. But that happens from time to time.
4th Goal against: This is the goal that made me think Joseph just isn't NHL material anymore. The old age and flexibility came in to play here. Any goalie should have been able to slide across and get this one. Joseph took so long to get over, you'd swear he was a fat kid playing in a street hockey game.
16 Saves 4 GA on 20 shots, not impressive considering at least 3 out of the 4 goals he should have had.
Leafsfan_94
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Guest8815
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Posted - 01/02/2009 : 10:25:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
yea, i woiuldnt say CuJo's performance was a stellar performance. but i mean, his team didnt really show up for him either. he is 41 now, he is in good shape but when you get that old it isnt as easy to play goal, i guess not for belfour, or haseks case but still not all goalies stay sharp when they get older.
quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Alright man, If you want to talk letting in weak goals, than how about Cujo last night against Buffalo.
1st Goal against: Long point shot, This one wasn't too bad because he did have traffic in front and Buffalo was on the Powerplay but the shot wasn't redirected or anything.
2nd Goal against: Cujo misses it with his glove and it ends up being hit out of mid-air in the net. Hard to get the second try, but he really should have grabbed the first shot with his trapper.
3rd goal against: Weak as hell. Bad angle, thrown on net. Routine save for Toskala. But that happens from time to time.
4th Goal against: This is the goal that made me think Joseph just isn't NHL material anymore. The old age and flexibility came in to play here. Any goalie should have been able to slide across and get this one. Joseph took so long to get over, you'd swear he was a fat kid playing in a street hockey game.
16 Saves 4 GA on 20 shots, not impressive considering at least 3 out of the 4 goals he should have had.
Leafsfan_94
So when Toronto plays a game like their same old selfs, but Joseph is in net the blames placed on the Team, but if Toskala was in net it would be all his fault? |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 12:20:33
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Honestly, coming into this season I thought goaltending was going to be the least of our worries and now it seems to be the biggest problem.
Cujo gets beat top cheese all the time 'cause he's down too early, his rebound control is bad, he is slow, he puck handling skills aren't very sharp and quite frankly he is terrible now.
Toskala has been wildly inconsistant, but im still not convinced that he should just be dumped on by leaf nation because of how things have gone this season. Seriously, who really would have thought that we'd be sitting 5 points out of 8th halfway through the season. If Toskala starts last nights game against Buffalo we may very well be 1 point out of 8th. Vesa definatley has something to do with that despite his numbers being so bad.
Unless you can package him for something pretty decent, I would definatley hang onto him. He still has a high upside to his game and could very well have a strong second half.
All you leaf fans out there, it is seriously time to show some patience. Most of you seem to buy into the rebuilding idea but very few actually show patience when it comes to the players on the team. Why complain so much when they lose or get shelled, its been said from day one that this is going to be a process that will take time. If they play well, great, if they dont then we get John Tavares :D
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 13:26:35
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So you are all aware, Webster's recently came out with their changes for the English Language, 2009 edition.
The new rule very clearly states that you can not put the words "Patience" or "Patient" and "Leafs Fan" in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence or beside each other.
Just wanted to make sure that was out there. With many of our members still of school age, I would hate to see them lose marks in their English Class based on not knowing the changes for this year.
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2009 : 17:11:29
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| Leafs never won a cup since 1967, Trust me I know a lot of loyal leafs fans, that never give up on their team and are still waiting for it. Patience and Leafs fans go hand in hand. |
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Savitar
Top Prospect
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2009 : 11:02:58
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My question is who are you hoping to get for him?
There is nothing really wrong with Toskala. Is he a top 10 goalie? Maybe not, but neither is the starting goalie for 2/3 of the teams in the league. toskala is a legitimate No. 1 goalie, who is playing for the relatively inexpensive price of $4 Mil per year.
The only goalies I can possibly see you getting (that you might want) are either Khabibulin, or Fernandez, and with Chicago and Boston gearing up for playoff runs getting either of those gentlemen is going to cost Toronto dearly.
Also keep in mind that Khabibulin earns $7 Million per year, not 4, and Fernandez has been inconsistent at best when he's been given a starting job. Also, either team would probably want Antropov, Schenn, or Grabovski in exchange, not Toskala.
As a final note, if Toskala is indeed "useless" then may I remind you that L.A. just got a whopping 7th round pick for the "useless" Jason LaBarbera.
Give Toskala a break, he's a legitimate no. 1 goalie in this league that happens to be playing for a rotten team.
"I call the big one Bitey" |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2009 : 12:49:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Hustler90
Leafs never won a cup since 1967, Trust me I know a lot of loyal leafs fans, that never give up on their team and are still waiting for it. Patience and Leafs fans go hand in hand.
very true... I'm 27 years old. I've been a Leafs fan all my life. My eyes have been glued to the tube whenever the Leafs games on since I was a baby. I love the Leafs no matter what through good or bad. Always have always will. I am hoping that some year before I kick the bucket I get to see the Leafs win the Cup at least once. That being said with a love like I have for the Leafs of course there is some frustrating times and some great times too. I sure any true fan for any team would agree |
Edited by - hanley6 on 01/03/2009 12:59:23 |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2009 : 12:54:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Savitar
My question is who are you hoping to get for him?
There is nothing really wrong with Toskala. Is he a top 10 goalie? Maybe not, but neither is the starting goalie for 2/3 of the teams in the league. toskala is a legitimate No. 1 goalie, who is playing for the relatively inexpensive price of $4 Mil per year.
The only goalies I can possibly see you getting (that you might want) are either Khabibulin, or Fernandez, and with Chicago and Boston gearing up for playoff runs getting either of those gentlemen is going to cost Toronto dearly.
Also keep in mind that Khabibulin earns $7 Million per year, not 4, and Fernandez has been inconsistent at best when he's been given a starting job. Also, either team would probably want Antropov, Schenn, or Grabovski in exchange, not Toskala.
As a final note, if Toskala is indeed "useless" then may I remind you that L.A. just got a whopping 7th round pick for the "useless" Jason LaBarbera.
Give Toskala a break, he's a legitimate no. 1 goalie in this league that happens to be playing for a rotten team.
"I call the big one Bitey"
Toskala isn't even a top 20 goalie I wouldn't even say he's a top 30 goalie, there are backups I'd rather have over him like Leclaire, Lalime, Huet, Brent Johnson, John MacDonald, Halak, Gerber, Hedberg, Deslauriers, Quick and Norrena they are all better than Toskala in my books |
Edited by - hanley6 on 01/03/2009 12:58:48 |
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TRADE TOSKALA 
