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Richard Noggin
Top Prospect
Canada
2 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2008 : 07:36:11
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OK...dont anyone mistake me for a Sens fan, but now that I live in Ottawa, I'm being force fed Sens everything and can't help but pay attention to their downward spiral. The question I'd like to put out there is what's wrong with this team, and what could be done to stop the bleeding? Last night they hit a new low in losing to an Islanders team that has the league's worst record and is riddled with injury. The first ten minutes of the game were all Sens. I figured it to be a blowout. Then "The Big Three" just sorta went to sleep. Granted Alfredsson never gets lazy, but without support, he's easily contained. Has anyone else noticed that Heatley can't seem to finish these days? Constantly missing the net, or flubbing the golden opportunities. On paper, this team is more than adequate offensively. You can't even say they need a puck moving defenseman anymore with Kuba playing like he is. You can't blame goaltending when you're only scoring 1-2 goals per game and your goaltender is near the top of the league in save % and GAA. I'll offer this solution....deal Spezza now....before his no-trade clause kicks in. Find some team that covets his one-dimensional game and is willing to give up a package of young studs/draft picks. Another option is to see if a deal for Kovalchuk can be struck. Atlanta may be willing to unload him for the security of Spezza's long term contract in roughly the same price range of what Kovalchuks getting now. This could almost be a one-for-one swap, but would only make sense if Ottawa could be sure that they could sign Kovie long term before he becomes a free agent.
Steve
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 08:24:33
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Well if the leafs keep up the mediocre play and don't finish last like expected, they shoul trade for him.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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Guest6196
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Posted - 11/14/2008 : 11:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Axey
Well if the leafs keep up the mediocre play and don't finish last like expected, they shoul trade for him.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap.
I agree Ottawa should start the building process and trade players including Spezza but I can’t see Ottawa trading Spezza to an eastern team. |
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Guest0803
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Posted - 11/14/2008 : 15:50:32
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Dont mistake Spezza for a franchise player. He is a defensive liability and sporadic offensively at best. Granted...when he wants to be he's a magician. It's just that he has no desire/capability to get into the corners and fish the puck out. He seems to be content with having someone else do the dirty work. IMHO, Ottawa would be well served to deal him specifically to an Eastern conference team. He's overrated at this time. That's not to say he wont some day live up to his potential but unfortunately he seems content to collect his fat cat paycheck and coast through the season. If you dont believe me, just watch him on a typical shift.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6196
quote:
Originally posted by Axey
Well if the leafs keep up the mediocre play and don't finish last like expected, they shoul trade for him.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap.
I agree Ottawa should start the building process and trade players including Spezza but I can’t see Ottawa trading Spezza to an eastern team.
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 17:07:58
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Who cares they suck!!!!!!
A team full of players that only think of themselves. As far as I am concerned move the team to Winnepeg or better yet Quebec.
GO LEAFS GO!!!!! |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 18:13:09
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all i care is that leafers are in 8th and sens are in 12th, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT? lol but its only the beginning of the season, wither team could pick it up down the road
Leafsfan_94
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 05:07:59
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| to many superstar egos. Alfie will be next Sundin, good captain, but not quite good enough to lead his team to the cup. I know you all going start screaming he already led them to the cup final, but he couldn't lead them in that finals and win the cup, especially when they had more offensive power. Ottawa needs to blow it up. Yes Blow it up! they need to deal one or two of their huge egos and rebuild. Also, Once you get past the Spezza, Alfie, Heatley combo, they have nothing. Sure they have some quality players but beyond the big three nothing! Everytime Hartsburg needs offense he reunites the big 3. I say rebuild it. |
Edited by - Porkchop73 on 11/15/2008 05:09:57 |
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Guest6695
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Posted - 11/15/2008 : 06:19:56
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| everybody seems to blame it on spezza ever since hartsburg called spezza out he's been working hard and playing physical. With spezza heatley would never have gotten 50 goals 2 seasons in a row. I'd stilll trade spezza for kovalchuck in a minute. i don't if atlanta would accept that maybe spezza and donovan for kovalchuck. if murray doesn't make a trade he needs to alfie back on the big line |
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Guest6839
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Posted - 11/15/2008 : 08:38:00
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| The biggest problem Ottawa has had is they don't hand out the Stanley Cup in October.The last few seasons the media just keeps telling anyone who will listen, how great they are,and this is their year.Fact is,they never were that good.They seem to have to a problem in Ottawa breeding overratted lazy players. |
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Guest4910
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Posted - 11/21/2008 : 21:21:32
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| In my honest opinion, Alfie is a great player...when they got to Stanley Cup finals, he had like 12 goals. I think biggest problem with Ottawa is the goaler. Lalime, Gerber, Hasek for one year and he was injured most of it, and now Gerber again....I believe if Ottawa kept Chara and let go Redden back then, they would have won a Cup or two... |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2008 : 21:30:42
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LMAO what if, what if, what if.......
If the Senatators had of had the Red Wing Roster last year they would have won.......or any team had that rooster
GO LEAFS GO!!!!! |
Edited by - fanoleaf on 11/21/2008 21:31:42 |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2008 : 05:21:19
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| Looks like Hartsburg has made this team try to work and there is no country club type atmoshphere anymore. Can't blame Hartsburg, he has proven himself a good coach (Junior golds). Just a lot of whining from guys who get paid a lot of money. Spezza is probably right up there near the tops in league for whining. Remember back when he played in the OHL and pouted and cried till they traded him out of Mississauga to Windsor. If he wasn't such a solid playmaker I would not think much of him as a player. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2008 : 10:07:01
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Are we all watching the same sport??? Spezza is over rated??? What??? Defensive liability??? Seriously??
The guy has done nothing but put points on the board!! His past three seasons are 90, 87, and 92 points respectively. In the past three seasons he also has 37 points in 35 play off games.
Actually, I took the time to compare him to other players in that time as well. Here are some highlights:
1) There are only 7 players to be in the top 30 in points the past three seasons. Thornton, Ovechkin, Savard, Alfredsson, Heatley, Datsyuk, and Spezza.
2) There were 25 players (including the 7 above) who were in the top 30 offensively in at least 2 of the last three season.
3) Of those players, Spezza ranks 8th in total point, 4th in PPG (tied with Ovechkin), 6th in +/-(better than the likes of Hossa, St. Louis, Lecavalier, Sakic, and Zetterberg to name a few), 4th in assists per game, and 8th in Game Winning Goals.
What the hell does anyone expect??? He is easily one of the top 10 offensive players in the league and HE'S ONLY 25 YEARS OLD!!! Trading him would be a huge mistake in my opinion.
And a quick note on Heatley not finishing?? Again, what the hell is everyone watching?? He's on pace for another 45+ season and he has the 2nd highest shooting % in his career this season. Again, what does everyone expect??
To the question at hand, the issue with the Sens is not the Big Three, not the defense, and not the goal tending. The issue is with the other 9 forwards on the team. There is litte to no production coming from any other forward. The next highest scoring player outside of the Big Three has 6 points in 19 games. That is just not going to cut it. Even the lowely Kings have 7 players with more than 6 points. Detroit, on the other end of the spectrum have 7 players with more than 12 points and 9 players with more than 6. That means Detroit's entire 3rd line is producing more than any Sens 2nd, 3rd, or 4th line.The bottom line problem with Ottawa is secondary scoring. Period. The rest of the team is playing well enough to win. The Big Three are doing exactly what they have done over the past three season. The defense and goaltending are doing their job.
The Sens are the 6th best team in the league on Goals against per game, the PP could be better but 19% ain't bad, they are 7th in the league on PK. It comes down to them being the 2nd worst team in the league 5 on 5 and the 3rd worst team in goals for per game.
Hockey is a simple game, if you score more than the other team you win. Ottawa is not doing that, so they are losing! |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2008 : 16:13:35
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| Your stats are correct Beans and I don't disagree with your opinion of Spezza as one of top performers in the game today. But, his ego is to big for himself and the team. Also with Chris Kelly and Dany Heatley getting near fisticuffs during practice demonstrates that this team is falling apart mentally as well. Alfredsson, Heatley and Spezza all signed big long term contracts and should be the leaders of this team. It is apparent that although they can lead on the scoresheet they cannot be leaders in any other department. Another issue with this team is that they have slowly ruined a solid defense that was the best in the league at moving the puck up the ice. This year it shows what Wade Redden did for this team. Without him the forwards are having to lug the puck more to break out of their own zone. Obviously they cannot play that style yet. They need to buy into whatever system Hartsburg is teaching them. I hate to say it and Sens fans everywhere are going to yell, but look at this years edition of the leafs, throw in three skilled players like the big 3 in Ottawa and you have a Stanley cup contender. |
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Guest9729
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Posted - 11/22/2008 : 19:59:44
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I have to agree with you porkchop. Obviously I am not a Senioriatta fan. The top 3 do put up points and this year it they are a one line team in terms of scoring.
Bang on with the way the Leafs have bought in
GO LEAFS GO!!!!!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2008 : 12:10:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Your stats are correct Beans and I don't disagree with your opinion of Spezza as one of top performers in the game today. But, his ego is to big for himself and the team. Also with Chris Kelly and Dany Heatley getting near fisticuffs during practice demonstrates that this team is falling apart mentally as well. Alfredsson, Heatley and Spezza all signed big long term contracts and should be the leaders of this team. It is apparent that although they can lead on the scoresheet they cannot be leaders in any other department. Another issue with this team is that they have slowly ruined a solid defense that was the best in the league at moving the puck up the ice. This year it shows what Wade Redden did for this team. Without him the forwards are having to lug the puck more to break out of their own zone. Obviously they cannot play that style yet. They need to buy into whatever system Hartsburg is teaching them. I hate to say it and Sens fans everywhere are going to yell, but look at this years edition of the leafs, throw in three skilled players like the big 3 in Ottawa and you have a Stanley cup contender.
We have had the discussion about team mates fighting in practice so I will not drum it up again. However, when team mates fight in practice it shows three things. Firstly, that the players are frustrated. No question in Ottawa right now they are frustrated. Secondly, that the players are competing. That's a good sign. Thirdly, it shows that the players are passionate. Yet, another good thing.
Now, case in point is the Ottawa/Ranger game on Saturday. Ottawa won, and quite handly, against the best(or one of the best) teams in the East. How did they do it??? Secondary scoring. Every other part of their team game is the same as what they have done all year. The only difference is that they got scoring from other areas of their line up.
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Guest8332
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Posted - 11/24/2008 : 12:39:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Your stats are correct Beans and I don't disagree with your opinion of Spezza as one of top performers in the game today. But, his ego is to big for himself and the team.
It is apparent that although they can lead on the scoresheet they cannot be leaders in any other department.
I hate to say it and Sens fans everywhere are going to yell, but look at this years edition of the leafs, throw in three skilled players like the big 3 in Ottawa and you have a Stanley cup contender.
How is Spezza egotistical? Based on what?
Not leaders - based on what?
If I'm not mistaken, the leafs have a goaltending as well as a defensive problem (at least it is not as statistically strong as Ottawa currently). These two weakness make not a cup contender. Sure Leafs offense is playing above its head is giving Leafs nation some hope, but seriously you might want to take those leaf coloured glasses off. Remember the bar was set so low for the Leafs at the begining of the year anything but being in the bottom 3 in the NHL is above expectations. I guess it is all about perspective. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2008 : 16:34:35
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I knew this would happen when I made the leafs comment. It was a tongue in cheek comment about the leafs.
Spezza does have a huge ego, you see it in his interviews and it sometimes shows up on the ice. He often hangs on to the puck that little bit too long and gives it away because he thinks he is a one man show. I am also sure that I do not need to tell you that his ego has been huge since his junior days when he was too good to play in Mississauga and demanded to be traded.
As far as leaders go, Alfredsson, Heatley and Spezza are leaders in points production and that is about it. They demonstrate only individual attitudes on and off the ice. This no doubt is contributing to the fustration. True leaders do not let the fustration affect the team.
If you want I will compare them to Detroit. Lidstrom, Maltby, Draper, true leaders that never care about individual performance but are rewarded for it. The wings win as a team and lose as team and you never hear the whining like Spezza does.
Anyways these are the problems Ottawa has right now, they are too good of team to let it go all season and they will turn it around. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 18:07:35
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I don't believe the Senators spiral has anything to do with Jason Spezza.
I believe, first Ottawa needs a quality goaltender. (NOT GERBER!) Gerber has always been inconsistent, since he came in to the NHL. He's not, in any way, a starting goaltender in the NHL. Secondly, I believe they need to bring Brian Murry back down to the bench. He was an excellent coach, and he would be best served there. Craig Hartsburg, a good coach, but not for the Sens. Allow Murry to do that, bring in a new GM that is available with experience.
Then, after all of this is done, they need to build a defensive core to go with their primary scoring and with Murry as the head coach, I'm sure he can conjure up some secondary scoring as well.
So, to sum it up:
1) Bring in a starting goaltender, trade Gerber.
2) Murry down to head coach, hartsburg out, new GM
3) Build a defensive core with a solid, top D-man.
Irvine |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 18:23:02
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Irvine, I do not know that Murray behind the bench is totally the answer. I think that the team needs a shake up, look at how Heatley and Spezza played in the playoffs compared to the regular season. Alfie finally had a good playoffs. The goaltending has always been questionable in Ottawa and there's no doubt they need help in the back end.
I would agree that maybe a new GM may help. They had good defense but were not able to keep them.
Move the team to Winnipeg to let some real hockey fans have a team to enjoy.. (had to get a dig in)
GO LEAFS GO!!!!!!!
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Guest6740
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 20:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by fanoleaf
Irvine, I do not know that Murray behind the bench is totally the answer. I think that the team needs a shake up, look at how Heatley and Spezza played in the playoffs compared to the regular season. Alfie finally had a good playoffs. The goaltending has always been questionable in Ottawa and there's no doubt they need help in the back end.
I would agree that maybe a new GM may help. They had good defense but were not able to keep them.
Move the team to Winnipeg to let some real hockey fans have a team to enjoy.. (had to get a dig in)
GO LEAFS GO!!!!!!!
if they had real hockey fans they wouldn't they still have a team? |
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Savitar
Top Prospect
Canada
31 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2008 : 21:26:50
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I feel that waaaay to much heat is being put onto the Senator's offence. If Ottawa had at least a passable goaltending situation (Alex Auld is the most consistent goaltender this team has had in years!!??), hadn't traded away their entire defence (Redden, Meszaros, Hell even Commodore), and wasn't banking on a Big Three offence ( Hi St. Louis, Lecavalier and Richards, boy 2007-08 sure worked out well!) to keep them in the running, they would be fine.
Fact is no matter how good Alfie Heatley, and Spezza are, I have to fall into the group that says trade the Big 3 for what they're worth and start over. Get a talented young goalie that you can build your franchise around, a decent, hungry young defensive corps. and lets the rest take care of itself.
DEFENCE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS IN THE NHL.
P.S. Anyone who thinks that Winnipeg or Hartford don't deserve another shot at a franchise just isn't doing the math. And people who suck at math are just lesser people. |
Edited by - Savitar on 11/26/2008 21:27:59 |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 06:53:03
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It seems to me that the Sens have been in a downward spiral ever since they fired John Muckler. I know he was really old, but he was still more than capable of running a franchise (see Fletcher, Cliff). Murray took over as GM and made some questionable decisions. Signing Emery to a big money deal, trading Corvo and Eaves for Commodore and Stillman, not addressing the need for a bonifide number 1 goalie (although Auld is playing over his head), and making John Paddock head coach, only to fire him, get behind the bench himself and do just as bad of a job. Although I guess you could blame most of it on the players and not the coach...
To me.... The Ottawa Senators just aren't winners....plain and simple.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 21:07:58
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Bring Murray back behind the bench and give the GM job to Mike Milbury
He would make some changes |
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Guest2622
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Posted - 11/28/2008 : 09:53:38
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quote:
Originally posted by fanoleaf
Bring Murray back behind the bench and give the GM job to Mike Milbury
He would make some changes
Fanoleaf, Mad Mike? Really?
You just want to see the Sens franchised rammed into the ground! |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 11:05:19
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Alffie is the Sens leader. No question about it. I find it absolutely incredible that people crown SUndin as the best leader in hockey history but completely deny that Alfie has any leadership skills at all. Alfredson is the Sens Sundin. Now, he probably is not as good a leader as Sundin but he can definitely handle captaining a team in the NHL. Leadership is NOT the Sens problem!
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
As far as leaders go, Alfredsson, Heatley and Spezza are leaders in points production and that is about it. They demonstrate only individual attitudes on and off the ice. This no doubt is contributing to the fustration. True leaders do not let the fustration affect the team.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
Edited by - ThorntonisTHEMAN on 11/28/2008 11:05:55 |
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Guest0967
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Posted - 11/28/2008 : 11:52:24
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| There is a very limited window of opportunity to win a cup in the NHL and part of being a good general manager is recognizing when you team has missed it and moving on. Ottawa missed their chance and has to try something new, i don't think anything is wrong with their big three individually but something has to change and i think its one or more of them for depth or draft picks |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 13:27:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ThorntonisTHEMAN
Alffie is the Sens leader. No question about it. I find it absolutely incredible that people crown SUndin as the best leader in hockey history but completely deny that Alfie has any leadership skills at all. Alfredson is the Sens Sundin. Now, he probably is not as good a leader as Sundin but he can definitely handle captaining a team in the NHL. Leadership is NOT the Sens problem!
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
As far as leaders go, Alfredsson, Heatley and Spezza are leaders in points production and that is about it. They demonstrate only individual attitudes on and off the ice. This no doubt is contributing to the fustration. True leaders do not let the fustration affect the team.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull.
I did not compare and have no intention of comparing Alfredsson and Sundin as leaders. I think that this season is really showing a lack of leadership amongst the Senators. They seem to be playing more individually this year. Look at last nights game against the leafs. Throughout the game, the sens big 3 seemed as ordinary as any of the leaf players. That is how they have played so far this season. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2008 : 14:22:08
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Frustration is not a sign of bad leadership. The Coyotes are awfully frustrated right now but does that mean that Shane Doan is not a good captain? No. He is one of the best in the league. Frustration occurs when a team is struggling, like the Sens are. And they are struggling because a lack of depth and a lack of defence. They are not struggling because of bad leadership.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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What's wrong with the Sens? 
