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Guest0987
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 Posted - 11/27/2008 : 05:35:34
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Does Toronto chew through goalies really quickly? do they just acquire bad goalies? Should Toskala be considered tradeable? Look at his stats compared to raycroft (who was slaughtered by Toronto fans and media):
Raycroft GP W L GAA SV% SO
2007 19 2 9 3.92 .876 1
2006 72 37 25 2.99 .894 2
Toskala GP W L GAA SV% SO
2008 18 7 6 3.33 .876 1
2007 66 33 25 2.74 .904 3
The patern is eerily similar at this point.... Toskala seems to be a step up, but not that big a step.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 06:00:12
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Since Joseph and Belfour the Leafs have struggled to find consistancey between the pipes. Many still feel that Toskala is the answer, as do I, but he has definatley stumbled early on. Raycroft was terrible for letting in bad goals at the wrong time, then being noticabley shaken by it. Toskala seems to be much more calm and collected, even after letting in a bad goal, and is able to rebound much quicker. I think that is one of the biggest differences between them. Also, the fact that the Leafs defence has more holes than swiss cheese doesn't help matters at all. Raycroft is one step away from the minors, Toskala is one good game away from going on a tear. I wouldn't trade Toskala until they have someone in the system other than Justin "What a bust..." Pogge
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 06:41:03
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I guess it's not fair for me to label Pogge a bust yet, but alot of people felt that a CHL MVP, Memorial Cup winning Goalie, World Junior Gold Medal winniner (and tourney MVP?) would have panned out a little better by now. I expected Pogge to be our Price. It still may happen.... yea...and the Leafs might win the cup again someday
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 06:59:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I guess it's not fair for me to label Pogge a bust yet, but alot of people felt that a CHL MVP, Memorial Cup winning Goalie, World Junior Gold Medal winniner (and tourney MVP?) would have panned out a little better by now. I expected Pogge to be our Price. It still may happen.... yea...and the Leafs might win the cup again someday
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
pogge is not going to be a bust he will jsut take the traditional root to the nhl, goalies generally don't play in the nhl untill 22 23 and thats as a back up and then by 26 they blossom into starters if they're good enough,, plus price would not have made the jump to the nhl if he had been in the leafs system ,, why because he wouldn't be doing much better then toskala and you cant destroy your futurs confidence at 20,,,,, dont worry pogge is a integral part of the your leafs rebuild the year you guys come back strong (prediction 2011) pogge will be your starter.... and this is coming from a habs fan so take the compliments when yo can get em!!!
Pasty |
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Guest9838
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 07:10:06
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Pogge has nothing to do with this post... I thought this was about Toskala vs Raycroft.
They definately have taken downturns in their second years. Look at the identical second year save percentages. With Burke, he'll most likely be another trade option, if he can get back a competent goalie in return. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2008 : 08:42:35
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Why trade Toskala for another goalie who wouldn't be any better?
No GM is going to trade a better goalie for Toskala. I don't see anyone else tending the net until Pogge gets here, unless he signs a FA in the summer. OR, he wants to tank like crazy and trades Toskala and we go with Joseph the rest of the way lol
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest8312
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Posted - 12/30/2008 : 11:34:39
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I don't understand why the leafs aren't trading Toskala and Kaberle for an inferior goalie/prospect/high draft choice.
My reasoning is simple: The leafs are bad right now, but not terrible-NYI levels of bad. Losing their top D-man and Goalie will certainly ensure them last place in the league, which has the best shot at landing Taveres and the #1 overall pick. Couple that with a potential last place finish next year (and maybe another #1), then with Schenn, Pogge, Tavares + another #1 overall, you have a core that could perhaps, one day, become a cup contender.
Otherwise, trade the first round pick for Kovalchuk and try to win the cup this year (lol).
My .02 |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 12:49:45
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| I don't think Toronto should give Pogge the chance to be the starting goalie at all. I don't think he would help. I Think Toronto should try to trade Toskala if they cant they should sit Toskala for a couple weeks and give Cujo a chance to prove himself. I feel Cujo is still the better goalie and Toskala will never amount to anything compare to what all Cujo has done in his career. Toskala is NOT good enough to be a number 1 goalie, he his just a decent back up that should never see more than 25 games in a season because he has no consistancy and he lets in WAY too many soft goals, he allows way too many big rebounds. Toronto needs a real goalie. we go from awesome goalie like Felix Potvin, Curtis Joseph, Eddie Belfour who have all lead Toronto to the playoffs to backups named Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala and expect them to be something good, it's just not going to happen |
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Guest9836
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Posted - 01/12/2009 : 10:21:32
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Going back to the original question here.
Raycroft is now 9 - 1 with a 2.57 GAA and .905 Sv%... was he that bad, or was it the team
Toskala's 3.34, and .882 is the 3rd worst and worst respective goalie stats in the NHL.
So do the Leafs eat goalies alive? I think recently yes regardless of coach, defense, offense, whatever. Even Belfours last year with the leafs sported a 3.39 GAA, .892% in 49 games with a 22-22-4 record (look familiar).
The other question is does Colorado save goalies? Theodore and now Raycroft. What makes that environment so easy for goalies to excel in?
And right now you can't say it's the talent in front of Raycroft that's better, as the team has been thin and Rayzor's been the one carrying the team. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2009 : 10:45:43
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well, I wouldn't disagree with the notion that Toronto ate Raycroft alive. Any time a goal went in you could see it in his face. It was almost like you could see him saying to himself "my god, this will be all over the papers tommorow" in his body language.
Toskala on the other hand, hasn't really seemed to be affected by the pressure here as much. I just think that his positional play has been off and the D-Zone coverage hasn't been able to cover up for it.
I could be wrong on the toskala part, but it doesn't seem to be the same as what happened to raycroft.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 05:54:31
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Toronto is a tough town to play in as a goalie, and we've had some awesome ones here. We're probably a step down in pressure from a french-canadian playing in Montreal, otherwise, no where else can compare.
That being said, our defence is somewhat unreliable and inexperienced, even though I look at them sometimes and think they shouldn't be that bad. Last year was worse, as we had an even slower D.
I think Toskala is a pretty good goalie, and we certainly won't find a better one before the trade deadline. I think Toronto has to change their mentality, and concentrate on solidifying their defence, playing a sound system, and forechecking more - Ron Wilson is the man for this in my opinion, but until some more player/attitude changes happen, he can't make it happen himself.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest9278
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Posted - 01/14/2009 : 06:17:31
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You cannt compare toskala and raycroft..... toskala is a very good goalie but he has no team in front of him. alot of you seem to be missing the fact that the leafs are rebuilding right now and they have alot of young player who still are not reliable in there own end. The leafs just dont have the team to contend right now but they will in a few years i guess. When raycroft played... he atleast some players in front of him including sundin.
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Reeder17
Rookie
Canada
112 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 06:30:47
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Personally I think it's because of the fans. The reason all these great players get brought in and start slacking is because of the fans. I find Toronto the hardest place to play in. The fans are so judgemental on every single game and play. One bad game from Raycroft a couple years ago and they tore him apart to the point he was most likely afraid to make a mistake, which puts a lot of pressure on him. The same thing is happening with Toskala, every game if makes a bad play the fans rip him apart, the media rips him apart. Do you remember when the fans loved tucker and antropov...a couple of goaless streaks and they were considered garbage. How long is going to be before they do that to Williams. Jeremy Williams is quite the goal-scorer, if they bring him up full-time next season and he struggles I predict it won't be long untill the fans tear him apart. In the end you can't blame the GM, or the coach. The blame has to fall on the over-reactive fans and media of Toronto.
Crosby is not the Jesus Lord & Savior of the NHL, get over yourself McGuire. |
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Guest9278
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Posted - 01/14/2009 : 15:19:50
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| You are absolutly right except one thing..... toronto is not the hardest but the 2nd hardest place to play. Montreal is the hardest ..... hockey is there religion in montreal. |
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Avalanche_17
Top Prospect
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 15:29:18
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Hahaha, ya it is a religion but in Montreal when the team or a player isn't doing well the fans just cheer louder well in Toronto they look for the first scape goat, be it a GM, coach, or player, and rip them apart. This would explain why Montreal is doing so much better then Toronto  |
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Guest9278
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Posted - 01/14/2009 : 15:32:26
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LOL! wow that is kinda true... AND every toronto fans think that brian burke is there savior and when he got in the talk was about will they make the playoff this year.
BUT... gotta give them credit there doing much better than the senators..... would hate to be a sens fans.
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Guest9836
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Posted - 01/15/2009 : 07:30:48
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Not sure where you're getting your information from but Leafs fans were actually very polarized when it came to Burke coming to Toronto. Some people believed in his ability to build winners, others thought he was overrated and inherited good teams that created his reputation.
And I don't think any but the most hopeful Leafs fans were thinking that after he got here the leafs would be making a play for the playoffs, more likely the opposite - a draft lottery pick - when Burke sells off the rest of the teams assets for prospects and picks. |
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Guest9278
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Posted - 01/15/2009 : 08:52:18
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| I give props to the leafs... they are doing the right thing. But leafs nation is like habs nation they all want to win now and make the playoff every year. As soon as he came into town everytime i turn on tsn they were talking about will the leafs make the playoff. that where i got the indication. maybe it was false but that where i got it. they were even talking to some fan and at the time i think the leafs were like 1-2 points out of 8 place and everyone was having hope. |
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Leafs Goalies - Deja vu? 
