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Guest7752
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 Posted - 01/14/2009 : 09:16:33
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What a joke!!! He waited half a season to see which Canadian team has a chance of winning him the cup, and then inserts himself into 'Nucks lineup only to completely throw them off their groove!!!! Typical ex-Leaf !!!
He going to bring the black Leaf cloud with him to Vancouver! If I hired a guy in mid-season (paying him millions) with expectations of him helping me win the cup - I would NEVER allow for any excuse as to why he does not make an immediate impact. First he needs his legs to kick in, then his hands will kick in, then the points will come... well guess what - it will be too late then!!!! HAAAAAA!!!! At his salary, and with all the hipe he created, he should have come ready to PLAY and ready to WIN. What the heck did he do all this time???? Why didn't he stay in top form and practice EVERY day if he had intensions of playing in the NHL... what a loser
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 09:34:38
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Easy Coyboy, lets take a second to remember that he wasn't even THAT good in T.O. With the that being said he wasn't a bad player, but with last season being one of his best I doubt he will hit that stride again, with a full season and being healthy he would get 70+. He is not a player to put up 100+ points, unless he is surrounded by Allstars.
Give it time, look at Ovie at the start of the season, one of the greatest players in the game today even had a slow start. I don't particularily like Mats but he will hit his stride and be an impact in the end. All they have to do is make the playoffs, and with Luongo back soon they will. Then the show begins.
Btw, when I first clicked on this I thought it was going to be referring to the fans in the crowd who brought 2 floor mats and said on one 'Welcome' and on the other 'Mats'. I was amused.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
Edited by - Axey on 01/15/2009 13:44:27 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/16/2009 : 09:31:29
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| what ticks me off about this while situation is that fact that he "once" said that the leaf blue is his priority and tops in his heart. What a FARCE!!! My youngster now thinks that some hockey players are liars, and only play for money. For me, this horrible to hear and Sundin is an insult to the REAL players out there earning their spots on the rosters and their money. This has never won anything, never accomplished anything, never set a record, never won a cup.... and i can go on and on. The only reason he's in the spot light is because he's in a town that has no hockey hero, and has him in the news even when he goes for a crap. Had he been on any other team, he would have been an average player, and that's it. I would rather have a MAN like Laraque talk to my kid about hockey and doing the right things, than a WHIMP like Sundin. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 09:59:49
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I still dont really undertand why some people got so bent out of shape when sundin left toronto and signed in vancouver....seriously, he was a UFA and could go anywhere he wanted, whenever he wanted. Toronto was rebuilding, Burke even said that he wasn't in their plans so he signed in vancouver 'cause they were the only team that had cap space and were a playoff team.
As for saying he never won anything or set any records, get real. He captained a gold medal winning team in 2006 and is the Toronto Maple Leafs all time leader goal scorer and point producer. For a team that is over 80 years old and has won 13 stanley cups, id say that is pretty impressive. Don't forget that he has the most OT goals scored in NHL history (tied with 2 others I beleive). This guy is a clutch performer when the chips are down and you need some heroics.
Did you feel this way about neidermayer and selanne? What about Peter Forsberg? he does it every year now. Sundin was a big part of the community in Toronto, he was the captain of the leafs when they had seasons of 103, 100 and 98 points and went to 2 conference finals. Just because he never led the league in scoring and hasn't won a cup yet, doesn't mean he deserves to be ragged on like this.
He got a standing ovation by the canuck fans when he scored his first goal for them. Obviously, they dont feel the same way about it that you do.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 13:19:46
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| Get over it! |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 13:37:22
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yea! what he said!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 14:14:07
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| man how amazing is vancouver since sundin got on the team what are they undefeated right now with him in the line-up damnnn wat a good rental player for half of the season LOL |
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Avalanche_17
Top Prospect
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 14:27:51
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| Ya, I thought he would make a good addition but so much for that. I am sure he will start fitting in before the season ends but I mean, come on, it is just stupid to wait that long. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 16:42:51
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quote:
Originally posted by DangleFest89
man how amazing is vancouver since sundin got on the team what are they undefeated right now with him in the line-up damnnn wat a good rental player for half of the season LOL
What did you expect from a guy who hasn't played for 9 months? It's unreasonable to expect Sundin to be firing on all cylinders when he's only played 5 games. Each game he has improved, you can see his legs get more under him, and his confidence and timing is getting better. In half a dozen more games he'll be playing much better and will make a big impact for the team. He adds greatly to the team depth and will bring some on-ice leadership once he settles in.
Remember, at the start of the season there were questions whether the Canucks would even make the playoffs with their current lineup. In my opinion they were over-performing in the beginning of the season, and now they are under-performing...somewhere in between is where their true capabilities are. This latest skid is actually good for the team; with Luongo and Salo out of their lineup they were able to see very clearly where their deficiencies were so they can be ready for the playoffs.
Now with Luongo and Sundin in the line up and both getting their timing back we'll see what this team can do. Also, when Salo rejoins them it will be a huge help to their blue line (and their score sheet) As a Flames fan, this concerns me.
Look for them to get a true "rental" player at the deadline (Sundin is not a rental by definition) |
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Guest9109
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Posted - 01/16/2009 : 18:06:18
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| okay 7752 thats all fine and good but.... lets see you hold the entire nhl in the palm of your hand waiting to make deals till you decide on your future then sign a huge contract while in your late 30's. You called him a loser, lets see you make 5 mill that easy..... |
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Guest7178
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Posted - 01/17/2009 : 06:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9109
okay 7752 thats all fine and good but.... lets see you hold the entire nhl in the palm of your hand waiting to make deals till you decide on your future then sign a huge contract while in your late 30's. You called him a loser, lets see you make 5 mill that easy.....
Well then.... let's just call him a hustler! 'cause he ain't no hockey player. YOU just made a cuase to put him in the same class as AVERY !!! Both of them are just in it for the money, and YES... both are losers! |
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Guest9109
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Posted - 01/17/2009 : 11:39:58
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| so just because his heart is no longer in the game you're saying that he doesnt have the god given right to make a living..? |
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Guest9109
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Posted - 01/17/2009 : 11:43:57
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| k, lets agree about this then..... the losers are the vancouver canucks! they are the ones paying him! let me ask you a question... if someone offered you 5 mill to work in your field of expertise for 4 months or so would you say "nah, that wouldnt be right"? no youd jump on that like a fat kid on a cupcake, right? |
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Guest7178
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Posted - 01/17/2009 : 14:26:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9109
k, lets agree about this then..... the losers are the vancouver canucks! they are the ones paying him! let me ask you a question... if someone offered you 5 mill to work in your field of expertise for 4 months or so would you say "nah, that wouldnt be right"? no youd jump on that like a fat kid on a cupcake, right?
agreed - i'd jump faster the sundin ever could... however... i would not splatter myself all over the media saying how toronto was in my heart, and how much i love the canucks, etc... i'd just shut up, take the money and run. i can't wait to see when it is hall of fame time... i wouldn't even let this guy in to visit the hall... let alone be inducted |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 00:19:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7178
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9109
k, lets agree about this then..... the losers are the vancouver canucks! they are the ones paying him! let me ask you a question... if someone offered you 5 mill to work in your field of expertise for 4 months or so would you say "nah, that wouldnt be right"? no youd jump on that like a fat kid on a cupcake, right?
agreed - i'd jump faster the sundin ever could... however... i would not splatter myself all over the media saying how toronto was in my heart, and how much i love the canucks, etc... i'd just shut up, take the money and run. i can't wait to see when it is hall of fame time... i wouldn't even let this guy in to visit the hall... let alone be inducted
I think you just have some un resolved issues. Seeing a shrink would probably be a good idea. Sundin is one of the greatest european players ever(maybe even players ever). To say that he does not belong in the hall of fame leads me to believe you had a couple too many brews at the bar and then decided to randomly rant on the first person you can think of. GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE MAN! Love him or hate him, Sundin is a damn fine hockey player. Sorry you dont like him, but thats life. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 04:15:25
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| Yes, he's a fine hockey player (not sure about damn fine). In my opinion he is not, however, anywhere near one of the greatest players ever (not in the top 100, maybe 150). Even European players, I don't know (interesting topic, maybe). To me maybe he is maybe somewhere between 25 and 35 on that list. |
Edited by - andyhack on 01/19/2009 04:19:44 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/19/2009 : 08:22:49
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I think you just have some un resolved issues. Seeing a shrink would probably be a good idea. Sundin is one of the greatest european players ever(maybe even players ever). To say that he does not belong in the hall of fame leads me to believe you had a couple too many brews at the bar and then decided to randomly rant on the first person you can think of. GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE MAN! Love him or hate him, Sundin is a damn fine hockey player. Sorry you dont like him, but thats life.
[/quote]
You MUST be a leafs fan... he only got all these points because nobody on the leafs teams these past 20 years could play. Sundin would have been just another "Sedin" if he was on any other team. Get real man. I would NEVER put Sundin in the same class as Dave Keon, Darryl Sittler, etc... the REAL Leafs. And I'm an Oilers fan with respect for the game and respect for honestly good players that is saying that about the real leafs! Best player ever?? Stick to brews my friend, get off the smoke... |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 08:35:19
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WOW! Get real here, Mats Sundin was a great player for a very long time. He is 38 now, why would you expect him to be playing like he is 28. You are either very young or have a short memory. When Sundin was in his prime throughout the 90's and into the early 2000's he was a dominant force for the Maple Leafs. To say that no one else on the leafs could play is an absolutle joke. Ever hear of Gary Roberts, Alex Mogilny, Steve Thomas, Shane Corson, Tomas Kaberle, Dimitri Yushkevich, Danny Markov, Bryan McCabe, Curtis Joseph, Alyn McCauley, Mikael Renberg?
His heart was in Toronto, you don't spend that much time as captain of the leafs and not feel apart of the city. It's a shame that the Leafs f***ed it all up and pretty much left him with no choice but to either retire or go somewhere else. This Sundin bashing is absolutley ridiculous.... he may not be one of the best players of all time, but who ever said he was?
If you want to blame someone, blame gillis for offering the money or JFJ for screwing the leafs up beyond repair. Sundin was always a class act and a great captain in Toronto, its a shame that the past year seems to be the only thing some people will remember about him...
I can't help but think that the same people who will probably boo him next month in T.O. will be cheering when his banner goes in the rafters at the ACC.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 09:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
I think you just have some un resolved issues. Seeing a shrink would probably be a good idea. Sundin is one of the greatest european players ever(maybe even players ever). To say that he does not belong in the hall of fame leads me to believe you had a couple too many brews at the bar and then decided to randomly rant on the first person you can think of. GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE MAN! Love him or hate him, Sundin is a damn fine hockey player. Sorry you dont like him, but thats life.
You MUST be a leafs fan... he only got all these points because nobody on the leafs teams these past 20 years could play. Sundin would have been just another "Sedin" if he was on any other team. Get real man. I would NEVER put Sundin in the same class as Dave Keon, Darryl Sittler, etc... the REAL Leafs. And I'm an Oilers fan with respect for the game and respect for honestly good players that is saying that about the real leafs! Best player ever?? Stick to brews my friend, get off the smoke...
So you are saying Sundin only got points because he had no one to play with. Does that not mean, that him alone carried his team into the playoffs for years?? If he has no one else good on his team, how does he put up such solid, consistent numbers? Your making him sounds better, and your trying to trash him...
And not a leafs fan sorry. I just respect players with skill. |
Edited by - Thrasher on 01/19/2009 09:30:21 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/19/2009 : 11:56:28
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.
[/quote]
So you are saying Sundin only got points because he had no one to play with. Does that not mean, that him alone carried his team into the playoffs for years?? If he has no one else good on his team, how does he put up such solid, consistent numbers? Your making him sounds better, and your trying to trash him...
And not a leafs fan sorry. I just respect players with skill.
[/quote]
Take a look at your skilled player in more detail sir. More than 60% of his points were probably at home, and 80% of those must have been assists, of which half were while he was on the freakin' bench!!! AND... best of all - look at how much he improved the 'Nucks??!? Funny how he did better on a crap team and how he can't get a point on a "better" team...? You should spend more time learning about "skill"... From your title, you are a Trasher fan, with a soft spot for Leafs? I'd rather have Kovalchuk than Sundin ANY day. Trashers are nothing without him, while Leafs were nothing with Sundin, and are still nothing without him - no difference... how good was he?
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 12:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
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So you are saying Sundin only got points because he had no one to play with. Does that not mean, that him alone carried his team into the playoffs for years?? If he has no one else good on his team, how does he put up such solid, consistent numbers? Your making him sounds better, and your trying to trash him...
And not a leafs fan sorry. I just respect players with skill.
Take a look at your skilled player in more detail sir. More than 60% of his points were probably at home, and 80% of those must have been assists, of which half were while he was on the freakin' bench!!! AND... best of all - look at how much he improved the 'Nucks??!? Funny how he did better on a crap team and how he can't get a point on a "better" team...? You should spend more time learning about "skill"... From your title, you are a Trasher fan, with a soft spot for Leafs? I'd rather have Kovalchuk than Sundin ANY day. Trashers are nothing without him, while Leafs were nothing with Sundin, and are still nothing without him - no difference... how good was he?
wow you need to calm down haha. How many games has sundin even played as a canuck. Give the guy a break. I have no soft spot for the leafs, and wow you must be a detective to figure i like the Thrashers.
Here are some stats for you, everyone that may have laughed when i said Sundin was a great player.
* Currently holds the NHL record for most regular season overtime goals (15, shared with Jaromir Jagr and Patrik Elias)
* Ranked 22nd all time in career goals (555)
* Ranked 34th all time in career assists (766)
* Ranked 30th all time in career points (1321)
* First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft (1989 by the Quebec Nordiques)
* Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history
* First Swedish player to reach the 500 goal milestone
* Most career points, goals and assists by a Swedish hockey player
* Fastest overtime goal (6 seconds, tied with Alexander Ovechkin and David Legwand)
* Only Swedish player to reach 1000 points
I agree with the fact the Atlanta is nothing without Kovalchuk, but you have no argument in saying Sundin is not an asset to the canucks. He is 38 years old, still one of the top players, and hasn`t played a game in 9 months(other than the couple he has just played with Vancouver.) Like, what did you expect him to do, jump into a new dressing room, with new players, and score 4 points every night for the rest of the year. Any team would be lucky to be able to fit him into their system, even New York was thinking of getting rid of a player or 2 to fit sundin into their line up. Sundin has played 6 games, and already you are asking for his head. I do not believe that the canucks will win the cup this year, even with a healthy Luongo and Sundin, with both sedin twins. They lack other things that some teams do not. You made a point of how 60% of his assists were at home and they just gave him points while he was on the bench. You must just sit at home and watch leafs games to be able to determine that. Even if that is the case, he was never given a goal while he was on the bench. I dont understand what i dont know about skill, but you seem to know everything, so why dont you tell me. How do you figure Sundin is not skilled, give me a good reason or two, and i will agree with you. I dont even like sundin, i actually really dont like the leafs, but i hate to see a player of his caliber get trashed by some wannabe know it all |
Edited by - Thrasher on 01/19/2009 12:42:05 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/19/2009 : 13:37:14
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Speaking of wanna-be know it all... where did you get your stats... off the top of your head?? Anyone can read and copy stats off the internet.
So let's stop spitting out stats. Here's what I think about your (or whom ever you copied them from) stats:
* Currently holds the NHL record for most regular season overtime goals (15, shared with Jaromir Jagr and Patrik Elias)
<< right... he played in twice as many games! >>
* Ranked 22nd all time in career goals (555)
<< again, these points were accumulated in how many games?? >>
* Ranked 34th all time in career assists (766)
<< again, these points were accumulated in how many games?? >>
* Ranked 30th all time in career points (1321)
<< again, these points were accumulated in how many games?? >>
* First European hockey player to be drafted first overall in the NHL Entry Draft (1989 by the Quebec Nordiques)
<< yeah... by the rookie Nordques... they did not know how to draft!!! And look how far he brought them... >>
* Longest serving European captain of an NHL franchise in league history
<< that's because there was no one else that wanted to captain the Leafs >>
* First Swedish player to reach the 500 goal milestone
<< ONLY Swedish player to hang around that long >>
* Most career points, goals and assists by a Swedish hockey player
<< again, he only has these nubmers because he hung around long enough >>
* Fastest overtime goal (6 seconds, tied with Alexander Ovechkin and David Legwand)
<< what's that got to do with skill - it could easily be accounted to lack of skill on goalie's part. And then, which class would he fit in, Ovechkin's or Legwand's? >>
* Only Swedish player to reach 1000 points
<< for now... he's been there long enough. The younger ones will get these much faster 'cause they're better. >>
To determine my numbers (by the way) all you need to do is watch one game to figure it out. As a person that loves and understands hockey - I watch as many games with different teams as I can, so I can come up with my own opinions...I don't need to search the internet and then spit out stats as if I knew it all.
No one expects him to produce in his first week, but when I say look at what he's done for the 'Nucks... get off the numbers man!!... Numbers are not everything. What he's done for the "Nucks is that he's completely distroyed the team chemistry that they had just started to jell. It will take a long time to get it back with him in the mix... and that could cost them the playoffs. He is not a good fit with a rookie captain, who is also just coming back. Sundin is a captain-type player (he thinks he is) so Luongo must be walking on egg-shells with him in the room. That's what I mean, mr. know it all... Sundin has messed up the chemistry. If you knew hockey - you would know that it is not all about the points and stats.
What you don't know about skill:
You should not base your opinions on stats, nor simply repeat what you read off the internet. If you played at all, and knew how Sundin played, you'd understand that he is just a mediocore player and just basically a very smart marketeer. He landed a huge contract, without really having the skills for it... so he's a smart cookie - not a Hockey Hall of Famer.
Hence, the tital of this forum... Trash Talk: - Sundin Comedy.
It a comedy of how the media and people like you can jump on his bandwagon without understanding how he's making a mokery of the situation.
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2009 : 17:19:29
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Sundin is a point a game player, BTW so, how many games doesn't really come into effect. And i have played the game, and i do understand that stats are not everything. All i said was i was giving the people stats who didn't believe what he had accomplished. Sundin plays with heart, and gives it his all for the team. And if the Quebec Nordiques are such rookie drafters, how did they draft Sakic, does he suck too? Sundin also lead his country to a champoinship not so long ago, say 2006. So really, your mad because Sundin does not fit well with the Canucks? Well, not every shoe fits every foot. Just because Sundin is not the golden boy to save vancouver or their season. they may have to work around him a little, give him some TIME to find some chemistry with the players he is with. I think this argument was a little too premature. In the next 20 games or so, i would expect him to have learned to play with the players around him. If not, then Vancouver made a mistake in signing him. I hardly think he DESTROYED the team chemistry, but maybe the line he was put on does not suit the way he plays. You seem to be getting very angry at me, but i never said he were completly wrong at all. You seem to have a personal resentmant towards him, that i think started before he went to your beloved Canucks. All im saying, is Sundin is better than what you give him credit for.
Dont blame Sundin for messing up the lines, the management knew who they were getting when they signed him to that (IMO) stupid contract. I actually agree they are overpaying him, he is old and past his prime. No he will never be the player he was when he played for the leafs, hes too old and took too long to resign. But again, you rushed this argument. He has been a canuck for 6 games. Give him and the team to settle in. Tell me the last team to win the cup with a high profile rental player. Pitt came close with Hossa, but he didn't end up working, and guess where he is now.
I am jumping on no bandwagon, actually. I am just pointing out that you are panicking when it is not yet neccesary. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/20/2009 : 06:55:59
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You still don't get it.
He thought he would win himself a cup before retiring by "chosing" the Canucks.
I'm NOT a Canuck fan, NOT panicing - Oilers fan here!!!!
Just stating that Sundin is making a mokery of his situation.
You just won't understand.... you have issues you need to deal with.
Please don't use Sundin and Hossa in the same sentence. Hossa almost brought Pittsburg the Cup and is leading the Wings to another Cup - AND: he made an immediate impact on both teams.
If Sundin is not ready to play - then don't. Vancouver Management is more stupid than he is. They signed him.
So if you read my topics carefully and stop taking everything to heart, you'll know that I'm talking about the "comedy" of the whole situation.
Go get yourself a brew and watch an Oilers game. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 10:46:44
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Guest 7752, you just don't understand Mats Sundin like you think you do.
You are ASSUMING that Luongo is walking on egg shells, you dont know that. They could already be friends for all you know. Sundin has always been considered to be a strong leader and a great guy in the room. The mere fact that he didnt want a team to dump 2 or 3 players to fit him in shows you just how much he cares about team chemistry.
Thrasher made some great points (IMO) and his stats definatley back up the arguement that Sundin has been a very good player his entire career.
As a die hard Leafs fan my whole life, i am TELLING you that Mats is money in the bank. You can say whatever you want about his contract or whatever, but on the ice, when he is in game shape, he has been a dominant force. He is 38 now, so im not sure what the canucks are expecting of him, but I tell you, he was a treat to watch for many years.
The guy had an awesome season last year on a dreadful leafs team as well, so at age 37 he could still hang with the big boys, we will see how he does at age 38. Like I said in an earlier post, Gary Roberts said that Mats was the best leader he ever played for, and Gary kicks ass.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 14:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
You still don't get it.
He thought he would win himself a cup before retiring by "chosing" the Canucks.
I'm NOT a Canuck fan, NOT panicing - Oilers fan here!!!!
Just stating that Sundin is making a mokery of his situation.
You just won't understand.... you have issues you need to deal with.
Please don't use Sundin and Hossa in the same sentence. Hossa almost brought Pittsburg the Cup and is leading the Wings to another Cup - AND: he made an immediate impact on both teams.
If Sundin is not ready to play - then don't. Vancouver Management is more stupid than he is. They signed him.
So if you read my topics carefully and stop taking everything to heart, you'll know that I'm talking about the "comedy" of the whole situation.
Go get yourself a brew and watch an Oilers game.
I dont think i took anything to heart, like you said, Im obviously a Thrasher fan. I could care less if you don't like Sundin, but what i don't like is how your saying hes not a good player, or as good as people thinks he is. I also LIVE in OIler country (in Red Deer), so i have watched my fair share of Oiler games. If sundin destroyed their chemistry, with you being an oiler fan, shouldn't that make you happy? I mean Vancouver and Edmonton are very close in points, fighting for a playoff spot.
And this whole comedy thing?? I dont understand how you think he is making a "mockery" of the situation. Just because he dedicated his whole career to a team, then when they don't resign him, he wants to go to a contender?? Did you hate Ray Bourque for that?? That actually might be my favorite memory of watching hockey, when Bourque lifted the cup. Just because Sundin had the oppurtnunity to go to a better team and maybe get a small chance to hoist the cup, you tear his head off?
The one chance you have had to change my mind would be if you were talking about the mockery of him not wanting to be a rental player. That hasn't come up in this discussion i dont believe. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/21/2009 : 07:41:20
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so what are we at now.... 6 straight losses for vancouver??
right.... let's give sundin some time to "lead" this team... HAAAA!
guys like bourque, hossa, etc went to contenders because they wanted to contribute and WIN - and they worked their butts off to "lead" and became the spark their new teams needed in order to get closer to the cup.
sundin "expects" to win - i think he's realizing 1- he's not as good as he tought and 2- you have to work to WIN.
but how can he know that... he's been on leafs team for so long, where everyone thought he can walk on water, and even he ended up believing he was that good.
in the end, he's just the "unborn" sedin triplet!!! |
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Avalanche_17
Top Prospect
Canada
27 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 09:14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
so what are we at now.... 6 straight losses for vancouver??
right.... let's give sundin some time to "lead" this team... HAAAA!
guys like bourque, hossa, etc went to contenders because they wanted to contribute and WIN - and they worked their butts off to "lead" and became the spark their new teams needed in order to get closer to the cup.
sundin "expects" to win - i think he's realizing 1- he's not as good as he tought and 2- you have to work to WIN.
but how can he know that... he's been on leafs team for so long, where everyone thought he can walk on water, and even he ended up believing he was that good.
in the end, he's just the "unborn" sedin triplet!!!
Okay, so I have just been watching this topic for a while and I have come to the conclusion that you don't know what you are talking about. Sundin isn't the greatest player but he is good. He is just adjusting to first, going from the eastern conferance to the west, and also switching teams. On the Leafs he was the all star on a team with not a lot of talent. Now he has to get used to a team that does have a lot of good talent on it, like the Sedins. I have a lot more to say but I don't think you would ever listen seeing is you seem to be in here just to start s***. I haven't seen you back up one of your points yet. It is actually pretty funny. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/21/2009 : 10:17:45
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excuse me sir - this is a trash talk forum
don't need any voices from above |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 10:45:46
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| Ok let me intervene before this gets too far. No one has crossed the line yet but in my 7 years of running this site, it's not far off. Keep the topic about Sundin fellas, not each other. Thanks! |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 10:52:53
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Up yours trebek!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/21/2009 : 11:19:29
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Some stats to ponder, since some forum commentators cannot think clearly or compile an opinion unless they see numbers:
The Ray Bourque rental:
> 14 points in his 14 first games at Colorado
> did that at 40 years old!!!
> did that with 14 games left in the season, and with the accumulated bumps and bruises along the way
The Marian Hossa rental:
> 10 points in his first 12 games at Pittsburg
> did that with 12 games left in the season, and with the accumulated bumps and bruises along the way
> so far, 46 points in his first 46 games at Detroit
The Sundin Rental:
> 3 points in his first 7 games with Vancouver
> Vancouver has managed a 6 game losing streak since the saviour arrived
> 38 years old
> had almost half a season to prepare and stay sharp and ready
> came in fresh, no injuries, no bruises....
gee.... why does one trash talk Sundin? |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 22:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
Some stats to ponder, since some forum commentators cannot think clearly or compile an opinion unless they see numbers:
The Ray Bourque rental:
> 14 points in his 14 first games at Colorado
> did that at 40 years old!!!
> did that with 14 games left in the season, and with the accumulated bumps and bruises along the way
The Marian Hossa rental:
> 10 points in his first 12 games at Pittsburg
> did that with 12 games left in the season, and with the accumulated bumps and bruises along the way
> so far, 46 points in his first 46 games at Detroit
The Sundin Rental:
> 3 points in his first 7 games with Vancouver
> Vancouver has managed a 6 game losing streak since the saviour arrived
> 38 years old
> had almost half a season to prepare and stay sharp and ready
> came in fresh, no injuries, no bruises....
gee.... why does one trash talk Sundin?
Neither Ray or Marian had been out of the game for 9 months. Sure, you can practise all you want, but he will not be NHL game ready right off the start. You can hardly blame a 6 game losing streak on a single player, this is a TEAM game, and there is no way sundin ruined an entire TEAM, as much as you would like to believe. And the point of him being 38, really doesn't help your argument. He is not some young kid ready to jump in and be game ready night after night after a extended hiatus.
I dont believe anyone else in this forum has actually trashed sundin. I agree that he is not playing as well as he could be, obviously. Brand new team, new players, new system, after almost a year. New coach, new city, new time zone. Too many factors play into him not playing at his potential. I have no problem for a player being trashed, but i would prefer it too be for the right reasons. |
Edited by - Thrasher on 01/21/2009 22:59:24 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 06:45:26
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read the stats again.... Both Ray and Marian were battered and bruised yet were able to produce. this guy came in fresh and shouild have been starving for action. day after day it is the same story... "hands are not yet there"... "legs are almost there".... "new team mates".... new time zone!!!!!! come on... time zone????!!!
typical Leaf excuses!!! he deserves to be trashed big time...
by the way, why don't you start a survey to see how many people want to trash this guy... exclude all of toronto for accurate results. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 07:16:48
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one more thing... on your point about "adjusting" to a new team...
you said: "Sundin also lead his country to a champoinship not so long ago, say 2006"
wasn't this a new team? new time zone? new coach? new city?
yet... he shined brightly, didn't he?
there's more proof that this guy is NOT for real, NOT money in the bank.... just over-rated because he was in Toronto, where nobody else was any better, and they made him look good. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 08:40:40
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well, it should be interesting to see how New Jersey does now that Brendan Shanahan joined them since that seems to be how we measure a players worth. Hmm, and Mark Recchi must not be a real great player either considering how bad the Lightning have been this year.
And just cuz I was curious, I went and looked up how Scott Neidermyer did when he first came back. He had 1 goal, 4 assists, and was -2 in 10 games. And that was at the age of 34? (i'm guessing but it was around that age). Sundin has had 2 goals, 1 assist and is -3 in his 7 games. And that is at the age of 38.
It takes time to get used to NHL hockey again. Give the guy a chance. And it is absolutely ridiculous to base a guy's ENTIRE CAREER on 7 games! |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 09:33:09
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I find it amazing at how these veterans are able to keep themselves in the game like they do. They are all in their late 30's, some in their 40's, yet they are still considered valuable additions(I don't think any of them are being counted on as core leaders).
In my opinion, if you have played more than 15 years in the league and are still able to draw the interest that Sundin, Shanahan, Niedermayer, Selanne, etc. do, you have probably paid enough dues that you should be able to go where you want with whatever agenda you choose.
To expect any of these players to come in a save a team is unrealistic at best.
Maybe these guys actually continue for the right reasons, love of the game, and it's the fans who have lost sight of that. If someone is willing to pay huge dollars for that, it's just a bonus... |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 09:57:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ThorntonisTHEMAN
well, it should be interesting to see how New Jersey does now that Brendan Shanahan joined them since that seems to be how we measure a players worth. Hmm, and Mark Recchi must not be a real great player either considering how bad the Lightning have been this year.
And just cuz I was curious, I went and looked up how Scott Neidermyer did when he first came back. He had 1 goal, 4 assists, and was -2 in 10 games. And that was at the age of 34? (i'm guessing but it was around that age). Sundin has had 2 goals, 1 assist and is -3 in his 7 games. And that is at the age of 38.
It takes time to get used to NHL hockey again. Give the guy a chance. And it is absolutely ridiculous to base a guy's ENTIRE CAREER on 7 games!
Thank you, that has been the point of my entire argument. TIME. Its just unrealistic to expect him to start producing the way he used too already. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 10:23:12
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you're all missing the point - his entire career is NOT as great as you make it sound. (or as Toronto media made it sound)
he was the best on a crap team... now he's average on a good team.
for me - that's pretty funny how vancouver management fell into the trap.
montreal and others did the right thing... they walked away when they realized how ridiculas the asking price was for an average player.
Now... with the AMAZING play he's delivered... (HAAAA) vancouver management and their fans are probably realizing it too!!!
Sundin got caught up in the hype that toronto made over him... the toronto media and fans have no idea of a star player - they haven't seen a real one in years... so they got all horny over Sundin...
It's been like that for so long, even HE was lead to believe that he's ABOVE average
he was always just average... now that he's out of toronto, he's proving it! |
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NAFFAEL
Top Prospect
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 10:40:23
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What does "typical ex-leaf" mean? Do you even know what hockey is. Why wouldn't he sign with the Cannucks. I am sure you would if they offered you that kind of money. I am sure he knows that he will hear it from the fans if he does not put up points but i think anyone can put up with critisism for 5million dollars for a half season.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
What a joke!!! He waited half a season to see which Canadian team has a chance of winning him the cup, and then inserts himself into 'Nucks lineup only to completely throw them off their groove!!!! Typical ex-Leaf !!!
He going to bring the black Leaf cloud with him to Vancouver! If I hired a guy in mid-season (paying him millions) with expectations of him helping me win the cup - I would NEVER allow for any excuse as to why he does not make an immediate impact. First he needs his legs to kick in, then his hands will kick in, then the points will come... well guess what - it will be too late then!!!! HAAAAAA!!!! At his salary, and with all the hipe he created, he should have come ready to PLAY and ready to WIN. What the heck did he do all this time???? Why didn't he stay in top form and practice EVERY day if he had intensions of playing in the NHL... what a loser
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 11:13:37
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I think you are missing our point! Sundin is not one of the greatest players ever. But he is a very good player! LIke you said, he played on some crap Leaf teams but HE LED THEM INTO THE PLAYOFFS YEAR AFTER YEAR. He is now 38 and hasn't played in the NHL for 9 months and you expect him to pick up Vancouver and get them to win his first 7 games? He's an old man at the end of his career.
And don't even bother accusing me of being a leaf's fan. I hate the Leaf's with a passion. I never liked Sundin and I dislike him even more cuz he is joining the "play half a season" club. However, he is a very good hockey player and I like to give credit where credit is due.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull. |
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Sundin Comedy 
