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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
 Posted - 04/22/2009 : 10:44:50
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Gretzky cried like a little baby all the time (especially when he was younger), Crosby is tougher than people give him credit for. He has always had to fight through a ton of cheap shots and 4th liners trying to make a name for himself by taking out crosby.
Sundin made 9.5mil when there was no cap, who cares how much guys made on the leafs when there was no cap, they have an infinite amount of cash. When the cap came into play Sundin took a pay cut down to 5.5 mil. I mean come on, give the guy a break. He was sooo clutch for the leafs for so many years, he deserved to be paid like their best player, cause he was.
A point per game through the dead puck era is nothing to sneeze at, I actually think its pretty impressive.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 05:29:13
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As much as Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, all of these guys are supposed to be 1200+ point players. Until they hit the 1000 game or 1000 point plateau, show some respect to the Sundin's of the NHL world. You forget the pressure Sundin had to play under as the first European to be drafted 1st overall, the first european captain for the Leafs, and just playing under the spotlight of Toronto. So until Crosby touches 1000 points, I would take still take the Big Swede anyday. Not to mention Sundin holds the record for most overtime goals and is up their in most game winners.
One more point, Sundin never played with another 60+ point player with the exception of Mogilny in 02-03. So for him to be an 80+ point player, with line mates like Tucker and Roberts, takes serious skill!
Comparing to Crosby who plays with Malkin, and Malkin plays better without Crosby, and the Pens have a better winning percentage without Crosby. You have to admit if Crosby didn't play with another elite scorer, his production would be down too.
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Guest8021
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Posted - 04/24/2009 : 05:44:57
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I watched some of the Pitt-Phi game last night and man does Crosby ever get whacked and hacked all the time. I would whine about it to the refs if that was happening to me too.
Even the players on the ice know he is SO dangerous you cant give him an inch of space.... |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 06:22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
As much as Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, all of these guys are supposed to be 1200+ point players. Until they hit the 1000 game or 1000 point plateau, show some respect to the Sundin's of the NHL world. You forget the pressure Sundin had to play under as the first European to be drafted 1st overall, the first european captain for the Leafs, and just playing under the spotlight of Toronto. So until Crosby touches 1000 points, I would take still take the Big Swede anyday. Not to mention Sundin holds the record for most overtime goals and is up their in most game winners.
One more point, Sundin never played with another 60+ point player with the exception of Mogilny in 02-03. So for him to be an 80+ point player, with line mates like Tucker and Roberts, takes serious skill!
Comparing to Crosby who plays with Malkin, and Malkin plays better without Crosby, and the Pens have a better winning percentage without Crosby. You have to admit if Crosby didn't play with another elite scorer, his production would be down too.
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win"
I have to agree with you that Crosby is not the best player on Pittsburgh.... But I don't agree with you that Sundin has never played with a player with 60/+ points... When Sundin first came to Toronto from Quebec Sundin was a Right Winger he played with Gilmour and Andreychuk. Steve Thomas, Alexander Mogilny, Darcy Tucker, Jason Allison has also had 60+ seasons, Nieuwendyk and Roberts would have at least 60 Points if they weren't injured. |
Edited by - hanley6 on 04/24/2009 06:24:52 |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 07:35:39
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Yes, but how many times did they do that when they played with Sundin, or even the Buds for that matter. Allison had 60 points in 05-06, but played with Tucker and O-Niell. Roberts was more of grinder when he was with the Leafs. And when Mats did play with Dougie and Dave, look at his production, 90+ points. With Mogilny, Mats had 80 points in like 70 games. So goes to show, when he had another scorer, he was a top scorer lol
Can you imagine how the Leafs would look if in 2000, we had pulled the trigger on the deal that would have brought Lecavalier to Toronto? For those who don't know, here's how the deal would have looked:
To Tampa:
F Jonas Hoglund
F Nik Antropov
Leafs' 1st Pick
To Toronto:
F Vincent Lecavalier
Tampa's 2nd Round pick
I love how the Leafs fans turned this from a talk about Crosby, to a talk about Sundin and the Leafs 
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Guest0332
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Posted - 04/24/2009 : 07:39:13
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Peter Forsberg COL 75 29 77 106 52 70
Markus Naslund VAN 82 48 56 104 6 52
Joe Thornton BOS 77 36 65 101 12 109
Milan Hejduk COL 82 50 48 98 52 32
Todd Bertuzzi VAN 82 46 51 97 2 144
Pavol Demitra STL 78 36 57 93 0 32
Glen Murray BOS 82 44 48 92 9 64
Mario Lemieux PIT 67 28 63 91 -25 43
Dany Heatley ATL 77 41 48 89 -8 58
Zigmund Palffy LOS 76 37 48 85 22 47
Mike Modano DAL 79 28 57 85 34 30
Sergei Fedorov DET 80 36 47 83 15 52
Marian Hossa OTT 80 45 35 80 8 34
Paul Kariya ANA 82 25 55 80 -3 48
Alexander Mogilny TOR 73 33 46 79 4 12
Daniel Alfredsson OTT 78 27 52 79 15 42
Vaclav Prospal TAM 80 22 57 79 9 53
Vincent Lecavalier TAM 80 34 44 78 0 39
Alexei Kovalev NYR 78 37 40 77 -9 70
Jaromir Jagr WAS 75 36 41 77 5 38
Brett Hull DET 82 37 39 76 11 22
Miroslav Satan BUF 79 26 50 76 -3 20
Ray Whitney CLB 81 24 52 76 -26 22
Brad Richards TAM 80 17 57 74 3 24
Mats Sundin TOR 75 37 35 72 1 58
Sorry not even a point per game |
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Guest0332
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Posted - 04/24/2009 : 08:23:05
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The period from 1995 to 2004 in the NHL is sometimes referred to as the "Dead Puck Era" in reference to the decreased scoring environment. ...
2002 stats Forsberg 106 Points in 75 games (rank first)
Sundin 72 points in 75 games (rank 25th)
Enough said (we could go on and on)see below
Sundin was a good player but never a great one (he was always overpaid for his production and overhyped because he played in Toronto)
He should not even smell the Hall of Fame
PS: I picked the year he played with Mogilny (who had 79 points in 73 games)
Sundin last ten years:
1996-97 7th in scoring
97-98 15 th
98-99 12th
99-00 17th
00-01 not in top 25
01-02 4th with 80 points
02-03 25 th
03-04 13th
05-06 30 th
06-07 20 th
Only twice in the top 10
Was he EVER the best player in Hockey? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 12:39:44
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Please stay on topic people: the discussion is about Crosby, and how he may or may not be overrated.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 13:55:11
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Screw Crosby! change the topic to SundiN! lol
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest7049
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Posted - 04/25/2009 : 00:38:54
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First off, I am not a Crosby fan, I do think he is a suck, but not overrated. I hate the guy, but admit it, he is great. The guy who said he cherry picks is a tard, since he is more of a play maker than a goal scorer and just becuase you are not in the top 4 of player rankings, as many of you think he isnt, doesnt mean you are not great. I'd hate to say it, but he is great....
top 5:
Ovie, Vinny, Malkin, Iginla, Nash....crosby is probably top 10-15...... |
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Guest7049
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Posted - 04/25/2009 : 00:43:34
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| As a Leaf fan (unfortunately), I will say sundin was and is a great player, you cannot argue that he isnt. The guy is always top 20 in scoring and plays with a bunch of nobodies. Mogilny was good, other than that he had nothing. Even mogilny was nothing special the year prior to playing with sundin or the year after he left..... |
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Guest0473
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Posted - 04/25/2009 : 06:09:45
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If you are trying to tke down Crosby, maybe you should try and get the issues straight. He is a great player b/c he is able to work efficiently in the toughest places on the ice. If you look when he is cycling down low, soemone is forced to hook him or pull him down almost every shift. There should be more penalties called against his defenders. Has he been a little too vocal about these uncalled penalties? Yes. What I mean by the issues being straight is that Crosby is not a goal scorer at all, he is a play maker and toughness is not measured by hitting, it measured by how much you can take and keep coming back and producing against the game's best defence. Crosby and Malkin do this night in night out. By the way, O vechkin is taking a lot of criticism for his predictablility in this NYR series. When you take 20 shots a night, it is not hard to figure out what is going to happen off the rush. quote:
Originally posted by Guest9847
I agree, Crosby is an overpaid, overrated, suck!!!!! Crosby is a good goal scorer, but that is all he can do. You barely ever see him hit and when he fights he fights like a baby. You never see Ovechkin spaz out on somebody, and Ovechkin actually hits people.
My Top Ten:
1. Ovechkin
2.Iginla
3.St. Louis
4.Malkin
5.Kovalchuk
6.Nash
7.Lidstrom
8.Lecavalier
9.Pronger
10.Gaborik
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 06:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9847
I agree, Crosby is an overpaid, overrated, suck!!!!! Crosby is a good goal scorer, but that is all he can do. You barely ever see him hit and when he fights he fights like a baby. You never see Ovechkin spaz out on somebody, and Ovechkin actually hits people.
My Top Ten:
1. Ovechkin
2.Iginla
3.St. Louis
4.Malkin
5.Kovalchuk
6.Nash
7.Lidstrom
8.Lecavalier
9.Pronger
10.Gaborik
Everyone has to agree that Crosby is a Top 10 player LOL....
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Guest4948
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Posted - 04/27/2009 : 07:20:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9847
I agree, Crosby is an overpaid, overrated, suck!!!!! Crosby is a good goal scorer, but that is all he can do. You barely ever see him hit and when he fights he fights like a baby. You never see Ovechkin spaz out on somebody, and Ovechkin actually hits people.
My Top Ten:
1. Ovechkin
2.Iginla
3.St. Louis
4.Malkin
5.Kovalchuk
6.Nash
7.Lidstrom
8.Lecavalier
9.Pronger
10.Gaborik
How is anyone supposed to take this list seriously? St. Loius, the 3rd best. Um, yeah. You ought to contact that guy offering up the waterfront property in Alberta! Oh, and anyone with a top ten list without Datsyuk on it is not very bright...... |
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Guest9637
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Posted - 04/27/2009 : 08:04:06
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| ok so mr guest 2073.. you must be a flyers fan!! from what i saw in that series is the kid littery skating thru the phillies playes and im not talking about going around them... he had a couple of beautiful stiff arms that laid a few D out. perfect example kimmo, ran him right over when the kid had the puck.. so i must say you must be a philly fan. he is a top 4 player in the league ask any gm if they would take him??? remember he is just a kid playing in a mans game, and he still dominates!!! you should try watching the season games and not what you just catch on tsn highlights you may think differently. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 10:39:40
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How can anyone deny Crosby the mantle of BEST canadian hockey player in the world. I think Datsyuk, Malkin and OV are better players (it KILLS me to admit that) but Crosby is right there with him.
The guy is not just great on the offensive side of the puck, but he is also EXTREMLEY dedicated to the defensive aspect of the game as well. He can backcheck, take faceoffs and be the perfect outlet to get his team going the other way. He is always on the ice when the game is on the line and he rarley makes mistakes in key areas of the ice.
I don't think there is a better player in the league at controlling the puck along the boards or is there anyone with a better vision of the ice. He is consistantly in the race for the NHL points lead, regular season AND playoffs and is the youngest captain in NHL history.
As far as being a two way player, only Datsyuk is better than him. Malkin and OV are superior on the offensive side, but Sid is better than them in his own end.
Sorry guys, but id take Sid over iginla, vinnie, st louis or the two ottawa boys any day.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 14:11:51
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1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Iginla
4. Datsyuk
5. Heatly
6. Crosby
7. Parise
8. Kovlachuk
9. Thorton
10. Lecavailer
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
Edited by - Sensfan101 on 04/27/2009 14:16:14 |
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Guest5289
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Posted - 04/27/2009 : 20:51:07
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| Wow i'm pretty sure his numbers are solid and hes turning into a true nhl captain and isn't afraid to go into the corners. Even just watching his ability to find players with beautiful saucer passes and his cycling ability puts him #1 on my list. If anyone is overated i think its gotta be ovie with his retarded celebrations and happy go lucky attitude |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2009 : 12:13:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Sensfan101
1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Iginla
4. Datsyuk
5. Heatly
6. Crosby
7. Parise
8. Kovlachuk
9. Thorton
10. Lecavailer
Crosby is Top 10...not "god" lol the one thing people should know, that ends this conversation is the following:....
1) the Penguins have a better winning percentage without Sid in the lineup
2) Malkin puts up better numbers without Crosby in the lineup
3) The PP and PK of the Pengiuns are more effective without Crosby
4) Crosby fights like a b****
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Guest3385
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Posted - 05/04/2009 : 15:04:00
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| I'm not a Crosby fan, but you're all wrong. He's one of the top 3 players in the NHL, no doubt about it. |
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Guest4075
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Posted - 05/05/2009 : 08:15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2073
I am Canadian, I think Crosby is a overrated, overpaid, and a crybaby. I dont think he will last very long in the top 20 for years to come, all this hype about him being so good is all media based to produce a new Canadian face to look up to. All he does is help sell RBK equipment to younger kids that dont know any better. If I were to rank him with the top 4 players in the NHL he would be last. If there were more players he would be ranked even lower.
1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Iginla
4. Lecavalier
Even Gaborik when he actually plays a game would be better than Crosby, i'm sorry if I offended anyone but someone has gotta say it. I'm pro Canada but con Crosby for being a face of Canadian hockey.
"Penguins don't fly, they dive"
You're nuts!! Media hype? Pretty funny how the media creates all that hype for this kid, and after the game everyone sits and wonders what he can achieve next, awesome!!! My six year old boy looks up to Sid, and i tell you if your "media hype" keeps my boy playing hockey, looking up to Sid(and others), so he doesn't idolize a video game like most Canadian kids, then i'm a Crosby fan brother!! Bad mouth who you want, it's a free country, but if you deny that Sid is great then your mind is clouded by jealousy!! |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 11:27:27
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Last nights game only goes to show Crosby and Ovie are both the same calibre. When it comes to the best in the NHL you can rate Crosby and Ovie as #1A & #1B.
"There are only two seasons. Hockey season and not hockey season." |
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Guest8241
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Posted - 05/07/2009 : 12:31:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4075
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2073
I am Canadian, I think Crosby is a overrated, overpaid, and a crybaby. I dont think he will last very long in the top 20 for years to come, all this hype about him being so good is all media based to produce a new Canadian face to look up to. All he does is help sell RBK equipment to younger kids that dont know any better. If I were to rank him with the top 4 players in the NHL he would be last. If there were more players he would be ranked even lower.
1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Iginla
4. Lecavalier
Even Gaborik when he actually plays a game would be better than Crosby, i'm sorry if I offended anyone but someone has gotta say it. I'm pro Canada but con Crosby for being a face of Canadian hockey.
"Penguins don't fly, they dive"
You're nuts!! Media hype? Pretty funny how the media creates all that hype for this kid, and after the game everyone sits and wonders what he can achieve next, awesome!!! My six year old boy looks up to Sid, and i tell you if your "media hype" keeps my boy playing hockey, looking up to Sid(and others), so he doesn't idolize a video game like most Canadian kids, then i'm a Crosby fan brother!! Bad mouth who you want, it's a free country, but if you deny that Sid is great then your mind is clouded by jealousy!!
With all due respect bud, you're kid should look up to you, not some face on the TV.... |
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Guest6036
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Posted - 05/07/2009 : 13:32:38
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| Please. I hate the pens. But come on. Quit being so jealous. How great is Malkin or Ovechkin in their own defensive zone? Can either of them win faceoffs? Does Ovechkin know what the word pass is or does he think assists are only earned by someone scoring off one of his 13 rebounds he creates every game? Until the trade deadline Crosby played with Pascal Dupuis and Ruslan Fedotenko and faced the other teams top defensive pair night in night out with no goon on his team to protect him. Ovy had two of Semin,Backstrom and Fedorov most of the year. Who is better than Crosby cycling down low? Who is a better passer? Who takes more abuse? Take a look at career points per game average between sid and other top players. At 20 years old, Sid won the heart. Yeah he must suck. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2009 : 13:43:26
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thank you very much. He won the hart at 19 by the way. This guy is the best canadian hockey player in the NHL and is tied with OV for being best player in the world. Just because Sid isnt as flashy doesnt mean he is any less effective. He does alot of things out there on the ice that most people wouldnt notice, but can help his team win the game. Defensive zone coverage is pretty much the biggest thing im referring to.
Can you imagine if Hossa had of been his winger all year? His 109 points or whatever he got this year could have easily been 120.
I know this debate wont die, but seriously. They are 1a and 1b. Crosby is awesome, OV is awesome.
Can you imagine a world where Pitt gets the 1st obverall pick in 04 instead of LOSING the draft lottery to the 4th pick caps? Sid and OV would have been on the same line!~
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest1708
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Posted - 05/07/2009 : 14:06:32
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| Anyone who thinks Crosby sucks is an absolute retard and they know it. Only reason Ovechkin scores more is because he is a winger. Crosby sets up the play. He is smarter too. Did anybody see Ovechkin grab his face the other night, only to see in slow motion that nothing even touched his (ugly) face? Crosby is a better player than Ovechkin and Ovechkin is gonna break his shoulder due to his lack of intelligence. |
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Guest9256
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Posted - 05/07/2009 : 17:28:06
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| People who say Crosby isn't any good haven't ever played the game or know nothing about it. he's an all round player he wins 65% of his faceoffs,he back checks he carries the puck end to end,checks at both ends of the ice,he has one of the best backhands in the NHL,stong on the puck behind the net usually wins with 2 sometimes 3 on him,he can score and he can definetly find someone on the ice with his beautiful passes.Sure he wines alittle bit but watch agame or two so does every one.Now compare him to A.O and there is none Alex stands and wait for a pass and scores but thats about it watch him play you will see what I'm talking about,oh sorry but you probably think he's great cause he can score.there's more to the game than scoring and Crosby has it all. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 05:46:04
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I've had a decent amount of input on this topic, but it's a neverending battle...
Devils fans will say Parise's the best, Caps fans will cheer for Ovie...Pens fans are all for Crosby, Ducks fans will go for Getzlaf...
Point is, everyone has a different opinion on whose overrated, whose the best...and worst...lol
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Guest1708
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Posted - 05/13/2009 : 21:53:52
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P.S
Crosby is a better all around player and is the guy that is gonna win the games for you (when it matters). All you Crosby haters gotta get your heads outta your asses.
CROSBY IS BETTER! |
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Guest4255
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 00:18:15
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I respect Lecavalier as a player and in fact he's one of my favorites, but you should bite your tongue.. Lecavalier should never in his life time be compared to Crosby, and dont even get me started on Gaborik, he is a bum and over-rated, even though he's not rated that high to begin with..
and this may be coincidence but its something i've noticed over the years, top of the line Canadian players have much longer competitive careers, Europeans and Russians careers seem to slow down a lot sooner. Not many 15year vet Europeans out there that still put up a lot of points, with Jagr as an exception. |
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Guest2646
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 02:41:41
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| Crosby showed everyone in Round 2. I love Iginla and Lecalvier and especially Ovechkin but Crosby answered the bell big time! Malkin is fantastic skill wise but tends to try to be to fancy. Crosby dominated in the faceoffs, stepped up on scoring, and just played hard consistently. As a coach what more could you ask for? |
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Guest1424
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 06:34:42
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| I hope all u Ovechkin lovers will shut up now we seen who the money player is in game 7 its crosby and also OV celebrates like an idiot be like Crosby and act like u have scored before Crosbys a man OV acts like a little kid in flyweight hockey when he scores |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 10:35:40
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change this topic to "Crosby Underrated"
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest1708
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 12:36:48
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| I agree : Crosby IS underrated! |
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Guest7113
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 13:41:25
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| You can't consider Crosby underrated. Did you hear the play-by-play in game 7 of the wash/pitt series? I can't remember off-hand who it was, but the guy calling the game had a man crush on Crosby. He was going on and on about how he's the total package. When Crosby took a stick to the kisser he was gushing about how Crosby wouldn't go down unless something was seriously wrong because he's "one tough customer". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 14:39:16
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I don't think Crosby is over or under rated. He is one of the best in the game today. Who is exactly the best is always debatable, but more often than not, the top 10-15 players in the league are the same names on most people's list.
The one thing that I personally think about Crosby is that he is showing in the still early part of his career that winning is the most important thing to him. He has shown to carry his team when they need him and that's huge. Sure, he has the stigma as a whiner, but so did some of the other greats in the game. That doesn't take away from his skills, what he does for his team, or his passion for winning.
And to get into the obvious comparison, I don't really know or care who's better between Ovechkin and Crosby and this series really didn't prove that to me either. However, one thing that has been proven (in my eyes) not only this season but specifically in the playoffs is that Crosby is less concerned with how he looks and more concerned with winning. As my old Basketball coach used to tell me, "It's better to look bad and win than to look good and lose."
To me, Crosby get's that. I don't think Ovechkin does. |
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Guest2805
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 15:46:40
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| hahhaha crosby over rated... your all fools!! |
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Guest2193
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 19:32:23
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| Crosby is indeed overrated not because he isn't good but because of how friggin much everyone talks about him. BTW most overrated player in the league Luke Schenn. P.S. anyone who has a top 10 list for the nhl without luongo on it... |
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Guest2282
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 21:16:38
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| Crosby is definitely NOT overrated. Tell me how many players have never gone 4 games without a point. He may whine and cry but he gets the job done. |
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Guest9655
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Posted - 05/19/2009 : 11:28:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9847
I'm not F***** saying Crosby sucks (actualy I am). Gretzky knew where the puck was going to be and you never saw him throw a tantrum on the ice (okay maybe on 1 occasion). As I said Crosby can only do 1 thing put the puck in the net. It"s good to do that but I like players who can do mare than cherry pick.
I would disagree with you there....Crosby is NOT good at putting the puck in the net, otherwise you would see him winning the Rocket Richard trophy...What he is good at is dishing it off to someone else who can put the puck in the net, and then get the credit for it... |
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Crosby Overrated!!! 
