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runtman444
Top Prospect
Canada
10 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2009 : 05:14:56
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i think its yime for burke to try and shore up the leafs goaltending another pathetic performance last night . i know its not all goalies fault but a 4-1 lead at the 8 minute mark of the 3rd only to lose 5-4 to florida what a joke. toskala cannot make the saves when needed and should be benched traded whatever , give pogge a chance he couldnt do much worse than the most overrated goalie in the league. which is what toskala is a glorified back-up!
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 05:41:50
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I totally disagree. Pogge wouldn't have even gotten us a point, it would've been over after the first two periods, when Toskala made many a great save to keep the Leafs ahead. I actually think that Toskala has been coming around lately, playing much better in my mind. The defence, however, has been sucking.
I totally understand why many around the league hate Leafs fans . . . comments about players like this are worse than garbage, IMHO.
I feel tainted. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 08:46:08
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I didn't watch the game, but I can tell you every goal I watched on the highlights, Toskala was hung out to dry. I don't think there is a keeper in the league that could have stopped those shots from becoming goals. Maybe the one in OT he was out of position, but you can also clearly watch the Leaf D-man not take the player streaking in who had a wide open shot.
Toskala made 33 saves. He did his job. Eventually, some of you Leaf fans need to look outside of the blue ice to see where the problems lie.
Although I think Luke Shenn is a blue chipper you can clearly see that on at least 2 of the goals Shenn turned the puck over either behind the net or in front of the net.
Toskala had no chance. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 09:03:50
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wow...
toskala plays well in one game... so leaf fans say "Let's Keep this guy"
toskala plays crap the next game... so leaf fans say "Let's Trade this guy"
Face it leaf fans... Toronto does not know how to trade, draft, or pickup players. They have poggie rotting in the minors while they go get a #2 goalie expecting him to be #1 - with cujo backing him up! what are they waiting for? play poggie!!!
Make HIM #1, and KEEP toskala as Poggie's #2.
Poggie needs to be around NHL caliber games, with cujo in his face growing this kid... leafs ain't going anywhere anyway this year anyway.
Why try to keep Toskala playing .... PLAY poggie for Pete's sake. Get him ready for next year!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 10:22:31
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What??? Where does this Pogge as a #1 goalie come from?? It is absurd!!!
Pogge has played in very limited action but has shown himself to be average at best. Actually, below average. .824 save percentage, allowed 13 goal against in 3 games and 74 shots (that a GAA of 4.24 for those keeping score).
At best, Pogge could back up Toskala, but that won't happen this year. Cujo can not be sent down while Pogge can. Maybe next year Pogge will be on the big club, but I still can't seem him as a #1 goalie. Maybe not ever.
He has been average in the AHL, average at best through the pre-season, and below average in very limited action this season.
Face this Leaf Fans, Pogge just ain't good enough today. Maybe one day, but not today.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 10:27:30
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| I agree we need to get rid of Toskala at least sit him a few games, but we shouldn't bring up Pogge yet he has shown he's not NHL ready yet, play Joseph more... Actually I have to say one thing about Toskala... even knowing he allowed 5 goals last night... That was the best game I've ever seen him play he actually looked focused for one he looked like he could actually see the puck, maybe he was wearing contacts last night |
Edited by - hanley6 on 02/11/2009 10:32:38 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 10:35:19
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not ready for what???
Toronto's not going anywhere... it does not matter if pogge is ready or not.
NOW is the time to see if he's ready or not by PLAYING him.... you'll never know if he's NHL ready if you leave him where he is.
Toskala's already proven he's NOT ready for #1 - never will possibly...
Pogge's in and out of NHL play... how does anyone know if he's ready?
Will you prefer he comes in when leafs (god-forbid) are actually a contending team right from the get-go?? And he only comes in because he's proven to be "ready" by playing well in the minors? What if THEN you find out he's not ready for NHL....? You'll have to go back to Toskala or whomever you traded him for??
Come-on.... ready or NOT: Play the guy and have Cujo help him out... toskala's proven he can't handle it. |
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Guest7266
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 13:44:00
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| i feel that toskala can play some games but getting to the point, the leafs are supposably (spelling?) creating a team that will get them somewhere in the future. With Toskala (probably in the bottom 10 for goalies) he is not the guy you want between your pipes. I am also not trying to say pogge is the guy for the job either, but Toskala just isn't solid enough for the struggling leafs |
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Guest9633
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 14:30:26
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| Thats real smart to play a rookie goalie on a s*** team. It wont damage his confidence at all and wont ruin him by throwing him right into the fire. Think with your head leafs fans. If pogge can only be average in the ahl, why play him in the nhl? Toskala is a good goalie who justs needs support. Luongo couldnt do it by himself in florida so why should toskala be able to in toronto? |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 14:58:17
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| Yet Toskala was good enough to be in a goalie controversy with Nabokov, and played in the playoffs in San Jose... |
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Guest9544
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 15:28:26
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toronto make me laughs suck trade Tosk to a better team so he can prove how good he is
Pittsburgh for the cup baby oh yeah |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 15:53:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0474
Yet Toskala was good enough to be in a goalie controversy with Nabokov, and played in the playoffs in San Jose...
agreed |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:14:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9544
toronto make me laughs suck trade Tosk to a better team so he can prove how good he is
Pittsburgh for the cup baby oh yeah
Here, here!!! With all due respect to those folks on here who are objective Leafs fans, it seems to me that the Leaf Nation don't know what they got 'till it's gone. It happened with Cujo the first time, it happened with Belfour, and I do hope that it happens with Toskala. It would be poetic justice to see Toskala go to a reasonably solid team and regain his form that he had in San Jose.
Then I wonder who would be to blame in TO??? Maybe the other 20ish players would hit the hotseat?? |
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goleafsgosjnb
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:57:07
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Ok, I agree with you that though Toskala is not playing his best hockey, it would foolish to trade him for the sake of getting rid of him. He is still a bonafide starter in this league and on a better team (aka pretty much any team), he would show his true worth.
However, I'm not a big fan of this whole Joni Mitchell Big Yellow Taxi thing you say the Leafs fans have with respect to their goalies. When Cujo signed with Detroit, there was OUTRAGE! He was loved, the fans knew he was the one who had brought them success. Eddie was a kneejerk signing that happened to work out. Leafs fans appreciated him as well.
Of course, I am speaking in generalities. There were probably fools who were never satisfied with those two goalies in those days when they were stealing games and posted stupid blogs on hockey poolsites about it just like now. I'm just saying, Toskala does not seem to get any respect. Losing has a blinding effect on people I guess.... |
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goleafsgosjnb
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:59:24
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| Oh, I hardly think "shoring up the goaltending" is the right expression to use. That's like hiring a new captain for the Titanic after it starts sinking. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 17:00:37
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Maybe I was a little cloudy in my last statement.
What I was intending to say on my Cujo/Belfour comments is I recall (mostly media who are driven by fans) the bashing that Cujo/Belfour took when they were part of the Leafs team. Toskala is getting the same now.
Hopefully my clears up my point. Those guys didn't get their just deserves when they were in town, so they left. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 17:17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Maybe I was a little cloudy in my last statement.
What I was intending to say on my Cujo/Belfour comments is I recall (mostly media who are driven by fans) the bashing that Cujo/Belfour took when they were part of the Leafs team. Toskala is getting the same now.
Hopefully my clears up my point. Those guys didn't get their just deserves when they were in town, so they left.
what bashing?? Leafs fans loved Cujo and Belfour... in fact they were Toronto at that time... Leafs fans were upset when Ferguson bought off Belfour (which Belfour played great for Florida) and Domi's contracts and signed Raycroft that was dumb there is no difference in skills between Raycroft and Toskala neither of them are good enough to be the number 1 goalie for any team in the NHL. I feel Toronto won't get any better until they get rid of Toskala that's the truth |
Edited by - hanley6 on 02/11/2009 18:22:03 |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 02/11/2009 : 19:06:57
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| Toskala was starting for SJ in the 06 playoffs. And they went to the second round. He is a bonafide starter. |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 21:26:52
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| yeah but most leafs fans don't realize what they have till its gone |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 22:32:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0474
Toskala was starting for SJ in the 06 playoffs. And they went to the second round. He is a bonafide starter.
look at the team he had in front of him, comparing that to Toronto. Not quite the same. Toskala is not the problem. Toronto's players are the problem, their needs to be major changes on the player front before anyone should consider moving a decent goalie. Hes not great, but he deserves to be a number one, and he would be on other teams too. Toronto plays shotty defense, cant score, no leadership, what exactly do they have other than a decent goalie? Not hating on Toronto just because that is the national pastime, but call a spade a spade. They are a bad team, and need to do alot before they become a contender to even make the playoffs again. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 22:46:46
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| The guy played for San Jose, any goalie can look good playing for San Jose the whole team is good, great offensive, back check, defense. They are the strongest team in the NHL hands down. San Jose beat Nashville in the playoffs, thats not very impressive San Jose should have beat them anyways and then they lost to Edmonton, If they were smart and played Nabokov, Edmonton wouldn't have had a chance. San Jose can take a 14 year old kid, dress him up as a goalie and play him for 50-60 games and he'd look great.. Toskala by no means is better than Nabokov never was never will be, Nabokov was always San Jose's number 1 goalie, Toskala was backup.. If you put Toskala on a decent team like Dallas which out of all 30 teams they're about half about 14/15th place in the NHL right now.. ok this won't happen but lets say Dallas has Toskala and Toronto has Turco.. Dallas would go down in the standings and Toronto would go up, Toronto would simply win more games due to solid goaltending.. something they haven't had since the good old Potvin, Cujo, Belfour days.... You can't say this B.S. Toskala isn't playing well because he doen't have a team, look at Columbus they suck but one thing keeps them together Steve Mason 19 wins 12 losses 2 overtime losses 7 shutouts .923 save % 2.09 GAA... just a rookie, very impressive, look at Tampa Bay they are one of the wost teams in the league but Mike Smith 14 wins 18 losses 9 overtime losses .916 save % 2.62 GAA.. 2 Shutouts... For playing for the weakest team in the NHL decent offense but the worst defense in the league those numbers are also very impressive, Smith knows how to keep the puck out of the net and he does a great job unfortunately if you play for Tampa Bay and you have the worst defense in the league you can't stop everything. If Smith was playing for Toronto, Toronto would be a better team and if Toskala was playing for Tampa they would be in dead last instead of The New York Islanders. Toskala just isn't number one goalie material, he's just not that good.. OH, It's true,,, It's true |
Edited by - hanley6 on 02/11/2009 22:48:42 |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 07:32:09
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| Maybe Toronto should have a game plan instead of running around all the time and leaving there goalies hung out to dry. This is why the trap is being used so much today. Saying SJ would have won over Oilers if Nabokov was in net is dumb did you even see his stats that year Toskala was the right choice. Only bad year Toskala had is this year when Wilson took over maybe if Maurice who played the trap was still there he be having another great season. Just because the focus is scoring goals means Wilson gets off the hook and he gets praised by Toronto fans doesn't mean he is a amazing coach he is all about offence and hell if leafs don't score goals soon you will be blaming him but for now blaming Toskala for not a defensive game like last year is just plain dumb. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 08:07:06
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The leafs are picked apart so badly, that it seems no matter what a fan says or thinks it paints them all with the same brush.
There is no doubt in my mind that Toskala is much better than how he appears on this Leaf squad. The in zone coverage by the leafs is absolutley terrible. The have a lot of rookies (like Luke) who will make mistakes, it's the veterens who just don't seem to work hard enough that bothers me. Wilson has said recently that his team can't seem to handle a practice that the best clubs in the NHL go through. The media and some players are whining about how "wilson is really cracking the whip" or "we're getting tired with all these hard practices". These guys aren't elite NHL players and it shows. They obviously do not have a strong enough commitment to fitness or they wouldn't be wearing down late in games and complaining about tough practices.
Toskala isn't absolutley amazing, but like I said, he is a product of his environment. It is Wilson and Burkes job to kill this old culture surrounding the leafs, the country club atmosphere, and turn these guys into machines. There really isn't much that can be done about goaltending right now. How many times have you heard that it is a REBUILDING process. Things aren't going to get better over night and that this team is going to lose a lot of games over the next couple years.
Many fans WANT them to lose, so why the big deal if toskala is having a rough year, Pogge is definatley not ready to be an NHL starter, but they have already stated that he will play a handful of games before the year is over. This year is a total write off, its all about Wilson and Burke setting the tone for the future. If they have to call out guys like Toskala, Antropov and Blake, they will. If you want to be a Toronto Maple Leaf moving forward you had better be committed to being in shape and giving it everything youve got every single night. We have heard burke and wilson say that Vesa likes to take it easy in practice, that just isn't acceptable.
But in the meantime, with this cast of players, its about using them as the example for future players. If you don't do what Burke and Wilson want, or fit into their plan, than you won't last.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 09:20:38
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Sometimes I wonder if we are all watching the same NHL. The comment that if Nabokov would have played against Edmonton in 06 that the Oilers would not have had a chance is more than absurd. The Oilers beat Detroit, San Jose, and Anaheim that year to make it to the final before losing in the 7th game. Detroit was the best team in the league that regular season and Giguere in Anaheim is as good as most any other goalie in the league. To say that San Jose lost to the Oilers because of Toskala over Nabokov is a joke.
With all due respect, you seem to be in the minority of people on this site. Most recognize that Toskala is a bonified #1 goalie with a weak team in front of him. And to compare numbers with Columbus is not a fair comparison to Toronto. Columbus is a better team in all areas of the ice. With offensive players like Nash, Huselius, Umberger, Modin and Brassard before getting injured. Role players like Peca, Torres, Chimera and Boll. Most specifically, TO's defense does not match up against Tutin, Commodore, Hejda and Klesla. That team is better than TO front to back.
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Guest0605
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Posted - 02/12/2009 : 18:32:32
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um leafs suck......
so does toskala |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 21:54:31
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what can I say Toskala played another crappy game like usual, out of position and allowing 4 goals in the 1st period that should have been easy routine saves...
But Cujo on the other hand, that's the Cujo we all knew and loved making beauty saves. Cujo was hot tonight stopping he even shut down Lacavalier on a break away not just once but twice, and he hasn't even played a game in over a month...
If Wilson is smart he'd play Cujo on Saturday against Pittsburgh |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2009 : 09:26:24
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hmmmm what are you going to get for Toskala I mean honestly. For the longest time i have been hearing certain people criticize burke saying trade toskala, what do you expect to get in return, you will not get more than a second round pick, not until the offseason at least. Noone will pay for a goalie at the deadline, remember Huet last year he went for a second round pick and his stats were among the top 10 in the league, so at best you're going to get a 2nd rounder think you're better off with him in the net, he is still the best of your three goalies, Patrick Roy couldn't have a winning season with the habs this year leave your poor goalie alone
Pasty |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 01:24:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
hmmmm what are you going to get for Toskala I mean honestly. For the longest time i have been hearing certain people criticize burke saying trade toskala, what do you expect to get in return, you will not get more than a second round pick, not until the offseason at least. Noone will pay for a goalie at the deadline, remember Huet last year he went for a second round pick and his stats were among the top 10 in the league, so at best you're going to get a 2nd rounder think you're better off with him in the net, he is still the best of your three goalies, Patrick Roy couldn't have a winning season with the habs this year leave your poor goalie alone
Pasty
I wouldn't go all out and say he's the better of the three... Cujo doesn't constantly let in garbage goals like Toskala.. Just because Toskala is 10 years younger than Cujo doesn't make him better and Toskala is not even close to as good as Cujo was when Cujo was his age...Even at 41 Cujo is better, quicker, smarter than toskala is was or ever will be... Toskala needs a long break, Cujo needs to start a lot more he deserves it |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 06:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
hmmmm what are you going to get for Toskala I mean honestly. For the longest time i have been hearing certain people criticize burke saying trade toskala, what do you expect to get in return, you will not get more than a second round pick, not until the offseason at least. Noone will pay for a goalie at the deadline, remember Huet last year he went for a second round pick and his stats were among the top 10 in the league, so at best you're going to get a 2nd rounder think you're better off with him in the net, he is still the best of your three goalies, Patrick Roy couldn't have a winning season with the habs this year leave your poor goalie alone
Pasty
I wouldn't go all out and say he's the better of the three... Cujo doesn't constantly let in garbage goals like Toskala.. Just because Toskala is 10 years younger than Cujo doesn't make him better and Toskala is not even close to as good as Cujo was when Cujo was his age...Even at 41 Cujo is better, quicker, smarter than toskala is was or ever will be... Toskala needs a long break, Cujo needs to start a lot more he deserves it
honestly i havn't seen cujo really play yet this year so i won't disagree with you that he may be better the only point i was tying to make i think if you hold out at last to the off season toskala is worth a whole lot more if you trade him now you'll get gipped like mtl did last season
Pasty |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 14:12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
hmmmm what are you going to get for Toskala I mean honestly. For the longest time i have been hearing certain people criticize burke saying trade toskala, what do you expect to get in return, you will not get more than a second round pick, not until the offseason at least. Noone will pay for a goalie at the deadline, remember Huet last year he went for a second round pick and his stats were among the top 10 in the league, so at best you're going to get a 2nd rounder think you're better off with him in the net, he is still the best of your three goalies, Patrick Roy couldn't have a winning season with the habs this year leave your poor goalie alone
Pasty
I wouldn't go all out and say he's the better of the three... Cujo doesn't constantly let in garbage goals like Toskala.. Just because Toskala is 10 years younger than Cujo doesn't make him better and Toskala is not even close to as good as Cujo was when Cujo was his age...Even at 41 Cujo is better, quicker, smarter than toskala is was or ever will be... Toskala needs a long break, Cujo needs to start a lot more he deserves it
honestly i havn't seen cujo really play yet this year so i won't disagree with you that he may be better the only point i was tying to make i think if you hold out at last to the off season toskala is worth a whole lot more if you trade him now you'll get gipped like mtl did last season
Pasty
I'd accept a bag of broken pucks over Toskala so in Toronto's case if Toronto is trading goalie for Toskala there is no such thing as a bad trade on Toronto's end |
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toskala - Burke, do something! 
