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Guest9847
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 Posted - 02/14/2009 : 15:04:56
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Is Kubina Overrated and overpaid.
I Think so how about you.
( He SUCKS)
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2009 : 21:54:19
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Gosh...If you replace 'Kubina' with 'another Leafs topic' and 'overpaid' with 'overused', you just might have a humdinger of a debate here. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 01:09:27
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| I think Kubina is the very over paid probably the most overrated D-Man in the NHL. I have to agree with my little buddy fat Elvis here he is also overused he is another one I'd like to see Toronto trade away coming Trade Deadline |
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deadalive
Top Prospect
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 01:36:07
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| I don't think he's overrated. Everybody ouside of leafs nation knows he sucks... |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 03:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by deadalive
I don't think he's overrated. Everybody ouside of leafs nation knows he sucks...
he was a star in Tampa Bay... He comes to Toronto and he's nothing |
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Guest7161
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Posted - 02/15/2009 : 14:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by deadalive
I don't think he's overrated. Everybody ouside of leafs nation knows he sucks...
he was a star in Tampa Bay... He comes to Toronto and he's nothing
Just like erverybody else... toskala, blake ring a bell??
NOBODY wants to play on Toronto!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 14:49:52
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When you put a good player on a bad team, the player does not perform as well. That's simple and logical and happens 9 times out of 10.
Toskala is a perfect example.
Toskala on San Jose = Capable #1 goalie.
Toskala on Toronto = Scapegoat because of lower numbers.
Toskala gets trade to any team in the West and 8 other teams in the East= Back to Capable #1 Goalie.
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Guest0798
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Posted - 02/15/2009 : 15:41:26
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hmmmm how about we talk about somehting other than the leafs ??
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Edited by - Beans15 on 02/16/2009 13:42:23 |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 16:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7161
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by deadalive
I don't think he's overrated. Everybody ouside of leafs nation knows he sucks...
he was a star in Tampa Bay... He comes to Toronto and he's nothing
Just like erverybody else... toskala, blake ring a bell??
NOBODY wants to play on Toronto!!
actually Blake and Moore have been two of the hottest linemates in the NHL right now in the past couple months |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 17:02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
When you put a good player on a bad team, the player does not perform as well. That's simple and logical and happens 9 times out of 10.
Toskala is a perfect example.
Toskala on San Jose = Capable #1 goalie.
Toskala on Toronto = Scapegoat because of lower numbers.
Toskala gets trade to any team in the West and 8 other teams in the East= Back to Capable #1 Goalie.
like I said if he goes to San Jose yes he'd look like a good goalie even knowing he has no skill he sucks... Even knowing he'd be back up to Nabokov again but San Jose can place a 14 year old in front of there net and say he's there goalie and he'd look awesome by stats. Why because San Jose is by far the best team in the NHL more skill, more speed, best defense. The only team I can see Toskala perform well on is San Jose if he went to Detroit he'd be backup to Conklin if he went to Edmonton he'd be back up to Roloson and Roloson and Sabourin would easily out perform Toskala... If he went to Columbus he be playing for SYRACUSE CRUNCH the farm team because there is no way he take Steve Mason or Pascal Leclaire's spot he's not that good... If he went to LA Kings he's be back up to Jonathan Quick... So stop sticking up for Toskala because he is simply just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team. |
Edited by - hanley6 on 02/15/2009 17:13:31 |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 13:58:23
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| what about atlanta haha |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 14:11:45
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Is it that hard of a concept that a bad team will make a good goalie look worse than he is???
Consider this:
There are currently 15 teams in the NHL under .500, the Leafs being the 4th worst of that bunch.
Even more interesting, if you look at these goalies and the amount of time they get points in the game (win or an overtime lose) Toskala is 3rd best (behind Luongo and Turco)
How can a goalie that is so horrible produce the 3rd most points(of those less than ,500 teams) on the 4th worst teams???
Shocking. It really is.
Sorry for getting off track. This post has nothing to do with Kubina but I was compelled to answer this latest post. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/16/2009 14:14:51 |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 17:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Is it that hard of a concept that a bad team will make a good goalie look worse than he is???
Consider this:
There are currently 15 teams in the NHL under .500, the Leafs being the 4th worst of that bunch.
Even more interesting, if you look at these goalies and the amount of time they get points in the game (win or an overtime lose) Toskala is 3rd best (behind Luongo and Turco)
How can a goalie that is so horrible produce the 3rd most points(of those less than ,500 teams) on the 4th worst teams???
Shocking. It really is.
Sorry for getting off track. This post has nothing to do with Kubina but I was compelled to answer this latest post.
Toronto is not that bad.... rebuilding playing awesome for a rebuilding team for sure... Toskala is the disease, not the cure... Kubina is way over paid |
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Guest6824
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Posted - 02/17/2009 : 12:48:28
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| hanley, its leaf fans like you that make the rest of us seem as thick as a brick. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 02/17/2009 : 14:29:02
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| stepniak turned out to be a beauty trade too...lol to the moore and blake comment i cant believe they were left off the All star rosters! |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 02/18/2009 : 07:44:34
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[/quote]
like I said if he goes to San Jose yes he'd look like a good goalie even knowing he has no skill he sucks... Even knowing he'd be back up to Nabokov again but San Jose can place a 14 year old in front of there net and say he's there goalie and he'd look awesome by stats. Why because San Jose is by far the best team in the NHL more skill, more speed, best defense. The only team I can see Toskala perform well on is San Jose if he went to Detroit he'd be backup to Conklin if he went to Edmonton he'd be back up to Roloson and Roloson and Sabourin would easily out perform Toskala... If he went to Columbus he be playing for SYRACUSE CRUNCH the farm team because there is no way he take Steve Mason or Pascal Leclaire's spot he's not that good... If he went to LA Kings he's be back up to Jonathan Quick... So stop sticking up for Toskala because he is simply just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team.
[/quote]
More proof that Toronto managemnet does not have a clue about hockey.
And best of all..... they go get Burke!!!
More stupid moves after stupid moves... |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2009 : 14:43:41
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| But as the saying goes, a good goalie can make a bad team good. St. Patrick ring a bell? |
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Bozonator
Top Prospect
57 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2009 : 15:30:40
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True. But Toskala is not a bad goalie. I wouldn't say he is a good one either. He is pretty average, can hold his own.
Though I was thinking, a problem I think Toskala is having is that he has to compensate too much and cheat a little when he is in the game, then he gets burned. I think he figures he needs to do this cause the team can't back him up. If that makes any sense.
As for Kubina, He is overated and overpaid. To me it seems like Toronto and even other teams in the league sign players to too much money after one good year. |
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Jephman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2009 : 16:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
like I said if he goes to San Jose yes he'd look like a good goalie even knowing he has no skill he sucks... Even knowing he'd be back up to Nabokov again but San Jose can place a 14 year old in front of there net and say he's there goalie and he'd look awesome by stats. Why because San Jose is by far the best team in the NHL more skill, more speed, best defense. The only team I can see Toskala perform well on is San Jose if he went to Detroit he'd be backup to Conklin if he went to Edmonton he'd be back up to Roloson and Roloson and Sabourin would easily out perform Toskala... If he went to Columbus he be playing for SYRACUSE CRUNCH the farm team because there is no way he take Steve Mason or Pascal Leclaire's spot he's not that good... If he went to LA Kings he's be back up to Jonathan Quick... So stop sticking up for Toskala because he is simply just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team.
So you're saying Toronto sucks, and because they suck they are bringing down Toskala with them? |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2009 : 22:20:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jephman
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
like I said if he goes to San Jose yes he'd look like a good goalie even knowing he has no skill he sucks... Even knowing he'd be back up to Nabokov again but San Jose can place a 14 year old in front of there net and say he's there goalie and he'd look awesome by stats. Why because San Jose is by far the best team in the NHL more skill, more speed, best defense. The only team I can see Toskala perform well on is San Jose if he went to Detroit he'd be backup to Conklin if he went to Edmonton he'd be back up to Roloson and Roloson and Sabourin would easily out perform Toskala... If he went to Columbus he be playing for SYRACUSE CRUNCH the farm team because there is no way he take Steve Mason or Pascal Leclaire's spot he's not that good... If he went to LA Kings he's be back up to Jonathan Quick... So stop sticking up for Toskala because he is simply just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team.
So you're saying Toronto sucks, and because they suck they are bringing down Toskala with them?
I never said that at all. Toronto is a good rebuilding team.. Toskala is bringing Toronto down, thats what I've been saying... Toskala would suck on good contending team in the NHL, except for the best teams like San Jose, Detroit and New Jersey they have the ability to make any back up goalie look great... |
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Jephman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2009 : 22:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
I never said that at all. Toronto is a good rebuilding team.. Toskala is bringing Toronto down, thats what I've been saying... Toskala would suck on good contending team in the NHL, except for the best teams like San Jose, Detroit and New Jersey they have the ability to make any back up goalie look great...
No, you said because San Jose was a good team Toskala played well. Toronto is a bad team, so Toskala is playing poorly (However he is playing better than most goalies would play in his situation).
So for the last time, don't blame Toskala. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 04:03:22
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It is pretty clear clear, after the last two games, that both Kubina and Toskala really suck, and they should be traded for players that are still in the minors. Obviously, it is entirely their fault that the great Leafs ship is sinking this year, when we had such high hopes for this young, talented team.
btw, for the intellectually disabled - that is sarcasm. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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goleafsgosjnb
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 08:45:54
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bahahahaha! Props for that.
Kubina is a bit overpaid, but who isn't in today's NHL. For the record, he's probably not even in the top 5 overpaid Leafs. Blake and Finger immediately pop to mind, I'm sure your average leaf-hater can fill in the rest of the blanks for me.
Point is you can't single out a Stanley cup winning d-man who has been a steady influence all season long on a BAD team!
Fellow Leafs fans, let's get serious for like 3 seconds, does anyone expect to see any of these guys in 2 years still on the team? Well, besides Shenn and hopefully Hagman. The Leafs have more holes than swiss cheese, this is expected. Trading one player away or adding one player will not do a thing. We're rebuilding, get over it! |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 20:42:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jephman
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
I never said that at all. Toronto is a good rebuilding team.. Toskala is bringing Toronto down, thats what I've been saying... Toskala would suck on good contending team in the NHL, except for the best teams like San Jose, Detroit and New Jersey they have the ability to make any back up goalie look great...
No, you said because San Jose was a good team Toskala played well. Toronto is a bad team, so Toskala is playing poorly (However he is playing better than most goalies would play in his situation).
So for the last time, don't blame Toskala.
I said San Jose is the best team not just a good team, that is the only reason why he looked good... Toskala is playing poorly because he is blind and he doesn't have what it takes to be a number 1 goalie plain and simple. Toronto is is a good hockey team there biggest weakness is the goaltending and injured d men.. A lot of goalies in the league would play a lot better than Toskala
again Toskala sucks, he can't position himself infront of the puck right, he goes down long before the shot is taken, he makes a move way too early, he is the blame he's one of the worst goalies in the league.. He should only be a backup, nothing else, playing only 20 games a year tops, he's just not good enough to play any more than that |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 20:45:55
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| i'd like to see them keep Blake and Moore, they are a dominant force together |
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Guest4631
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Posted - 02/24/2009 : 08:41:42
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| ok blake and moore have played well this year, but a dominant force? i dont think so. but kubina 3 assists the other night, toskala has played a few good games 39 saves the other night kept them in the game. why dont you give them a little credit where credit is due there hanley? more likely you will pull the typical move of waiting a few weeks until they have a bad game then you will be on here again calling for there heads and blaming ever loss on toskala. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2009 : 09:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Bozonator
True. But Toskala is not a bad goalie. I wouldn't say he is a good one either. He is pretty average, can hold his own.
Though I was thinking, a problem I think Toskala is having is that he has to compensate too much and cheat a little when he is in the game, then he gets burned. I think he figures he needs to do this cause the team can't back him up. If that makes any sense.
As for Kubina, He is overated and overpaid. To me it seems like Toronto and even other teams in the league sign players to too much money after one good year.
Bozo, actually, this makes perfect sense. If a goalie as confidence in what and how their defence play, then the goalie can concentrate on what it is they need to concentrate on, and their game improves measurably. For example, on a two on one, the rule is always to take away the pass, so the goalie can concentrate on the shooter. If the D-man goes for the shooter, then on the next 2 on 1, the goalie will play it differently, and that throws their game off.
If, however, the goalie has no confidence in his defence, then they tend to do exactly what you are saying. They cheat because they have no choice. And often, the result of that are goals that look ugly.
So I ask, if you were Toskala, would you have any sort of confidence in the Toronto d-men?
Hanley, you need to take off the rose coloured glasses buddy. Toronto is trudging around in the basement. By any measure, that means the suck. You say that the Toronto d-men suck. has it occurred to you that perhaps if the Leafs had somebody looking after their own end, that would help Toskala's game? |
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Hustler90
Top Prospect
Canada
53 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 16:19:49
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| You know Kubina isn't that bad of a player. He has got size and he can put up decent offensive numbers. He is on pace for 45 points which happens to be a career high and with Kaberle's injury he has noticeably stepped up his game. But yes he is big time over-paid. I wouldn't really say he is overrated anymore. Everyone's been putting him down these days but I still find him to be a useful defenseman. |
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Bozonator
Top Prospect
57 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 16:51:26
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Hustler90, In a way I agree with you, I guess when the team is doing bad you just notice what their faults are compared to how they are playing. And after the injuries and inconsistencies of the inexperienced defense, Kubina has been holding his own, maybe people just expected him to be step it up like crazy for the team and become a huge force. Either way he was signed for too much money, but that was Toronto's choice.
Odin, I'm glad you caught what I was trying to say. There's no way that Toskala has confidence in his defense or else there wouldn't be so many breakdowns in front of him. |
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Guest9847
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Posted - 02/26/2009 : 05:00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by goleafsgosjnb
bahahahaha! Props for that.
Kubina is a bit overpaid, but who isn't in today's NHL. For the record, he's probably not even in the top 5 overpaid Leafs.
Kubina is making over 5 million a season, he's getting paid more than Kaberle |
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Guest9464
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Posted - 02/26/2009 : 06:25:36
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Well let's get real folks... Kubina doesn't 'suck.' He would be a top four defenseman on any team in the league except the few top elite teams.
He is overpaid by a couple million a year. The Leafs have a history of making stupid decisions like that but then every team in the league has made those same dumb decisions. The Leafs' past management has just made a career of it.
Face it, the Leafs were supposed to lose all season this year and get the great draft pick. Players like Kubina have aided in making them too successful and probably edging them out of the pick.
The back line is the biggest reason why the Leafs have put up any points at all this year. Look at their biggest trade bait - Kubina, Kaberle, Schen. Nobody's talking about trading Finger but add him to the mix and that's not a bad group of four. It is a long way from Stanley Cup time but there are a few puck movers there that any team in the league wouldn't mind having.
So let the less than intelligent come backs begin... |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2009 : 10:54:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9464
Well let's get real folks... Kubina doesn't 'suck.' He would be a top four defenseman on any team in the league except the few top elite teams.
He is overpaid by a couple million a year. The Leafs have a history of making stupid decisions like that but then every team in the league has made those same dumb decisions. The Leafs' past management has just made a career of it.
Face it, the Leafs were supposed to lose all season this year and get the great draft pick. Players like Kubina have aided in making them too successful and probably edging them out of the pick.
The back line is the biggest reason why the Leafs have put up any points at all this year. Look at their biggest trade bait - Kubina, Kaberle, Schen. Nobody's talking about trading Finger but add him to the mix and that's not a bad group of four. It is a long way from Stanley Cup time but there are a few puck movers there that any team in the league wouldn't mind having.
So let the less than intelligent come backs begin...
now you have basicly said all i have to say on this point,, i would just like to add there is a difference between over paid and overated,, for example if i offer say Tom Kostopoulos 10 million a year for 10 years of course he will say yes you cannot hold that against him can you? does it make him overated? I don't think so he is still a fourth line banger with 3rd line potential, he just gets paid a little more
Pasty |
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Is Kubina over rated? 
