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Guest9847
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 Posted - 02/20/2009 : 19:25:15
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Do you think chicago and washington will be Stanley Cup contenders in the next 2-4 years? Personally I say yes.
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 07:09:40
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I honestly think Washington is right now. Very exciting team to watch too.
Chicago will be in the next few years.
"Society, have mercy on me. Hope you're not angry if I disagree." - Jerry Hannan |
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Guest9544
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Posted - 02/21/2009 : 13:55:21
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| no Ovechkin dont have the heart to drive them that fa in the playoffs and maybe but Pittsburgh will beat them for the cup |
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Guest9544
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Posted - 02/21/2009 : 13:56:06
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that and maybe part is about chicago
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2009 : 14:38:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9544
no Ovechkin dont have the heart to drive them that fa in the playoffs and maybe but Pittsburgh will beat them for the cup
Ovechkin has the heart to drive any team anywhere. That should not be in question. Whats holding the caps back is lack of depth i think. They have about four players that control the team. Besides Mike Green, they dont have a very solid defensive roster. They have three forwards that can put up points, only 2 really being a serious scoring threat. And with teams playing far more defensive in the playoffs, shutting down Ovechkin becomes easier. He takes more than twice the amount of shots than any other player on their roster, so covering him shuts down the capitals. Semin is not ready to fill in for Alex as primary scorer, so the capitals will need to become a defensive team, with a average at best defensive core. Goaltending for the caps has been good with Theodore returning to his past form. How far he can take them into the playoffs remains to be seen, but if he can take them into the conference finals i will be very surprised. The caps are a couple years away from being a serious cup threat i think, maybe a couple better second line players and a couple better defensemen.
Chicago is looking good this year with future super stars Kane, Toews, and solid players like Havlat, Sharp, Keith, Cambell, Versteeg, Barker, and Brouwer. They have a much deeper and younger team than the caps, which is good and bad. While their is no substitute for skill, there is also no substitute with experience, something the Blackhawks have none of. All of their key players have never won a cup, or made it to the finals. They have three solid scoring lines and a good young group of defensemen. Goaltending is also good, assuming the Bulin wall is coming back soon. Huet is showing he is a legit number one goalie, with solid numbers and taking them into fourth into the very competitive western conference. Which therein lies the problem for Chicago. With such a young inexperienced team against many strong teams, i cant see them making it to the cup this year. Again, i think this is a team of the future, not of the present. Here is hoping they can sign back Havlat, and keep this team rolling for the next couple years.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2009 : 09:54:25
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OK, I have serious reservations about this last post.
1) Ovechkin can not be stopped. Slowed slightly maybe, but not stopped, and definately not over a 7 game series. He is the best pure scorer this league has seen since the likes of Brett Hull and Mike Bossy.
He can not be stopped, plain and simple.
2) They are a better defensive team than you think. Tom Poti is more than capable and Jeff Schultz has proven to be a very stable and reliable players. (3rd on the team with a plus 17 with only 10 points). With the Caps, they are obviously an offense first team, but that doesn't mean they are horrible defensively. Their weakness in goal far more than their defense.
3) Just because some of their players are not producing does not mean they don't have the skill to. Fedorov has always been a clutch playoff performer. Nylander has game. Vickor Kolov and Brooks Laich bring a little somthing to the table themselves. Their top 6 are as good as any other top 6 in the league. And the whole team is ultimately dangerous because they are fast.
4) I agree that if they have a kryptonite, it's in net. However I think they know that and play to that. They remind me of the same game plan the Old Oilers used. It doesn't matter if you win 6-5 or 6-1. A win is a win. All Theodore has to do is stop one more goal than the other guy.
5) Finally, and most importantly, Washington is more of a legitimate Cup contender today for one simple reason, The Eastern Conference is weaker than the west. They can skate with any team in the east, including the Bruins. Chicago, on the other hand, can not skate with Detroit or San Jose. They just simply are not good enough.
Washington is scary dangerous and I don't think people are give them (or the Devils for that matter) the credit they deserve. Not saying I don't like Chicago. They have a brilliant young team and they might surprise, but they are not a good enough team to beat Detroit or San Jose. I also think they would be in tough with Calgary nd I think they would also struggle in a series against Vancouver if Luongo is anywhere near his game. Washington can ligitimately beat anyone in the East and although I don't think that team is as good as Detroit or San Jose, they make a series with either of those teams. |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2009 : 11:15:17
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I guess i have too defend myself now, and my opinions.
1) Of course your right, Ovie is amazing, but other teams WILL find ways to slow him down. And when that happens, Capitals slow down. Im not saying that in a 7 game series he will not score, but other teams will make it harder on him too. Penalties are called a bit stricter in playoffs, so players can take more liberties with their sticks.
2) I was more comparing their defense to other teams in the eastern conference, namely the Bruins. If they are true contenders, im sure they will have to go up against the B's sometime this post season, and i think in that series, their defensive weakness will show. Again, not saying they are terrible, but for a playoff contender, im not sure if they are there yet.
3) Top 6 as good as any other in the league? I don't know about that. Boston, Detroit, San Jose, New Jersey, Philly, Calgary, Chicago, Vancouver all have better top two lines IMO. Not saying Washingtons are at the bottom, but the top line needs more help then what they are getting, and probably not enough to make a cup run this season.
4) For the most part this season Theodore has surprised me. I didn't think he still had this amount of game left, but i don't think he is back to number one goalie form. And with goals harder to come by in the playoffs, playing by stopping one more shot becomes a harder system to play. Although, Washington has allowed the most goals behind Montreal for all eastern conference playoff teams, so either defense or goaltending could lead to their playoff exit.
5) And agreed with last statement, Chicago will probably not be a contender this year, because of how competitive the west is. The east is far more spread out and yes weaker than the west. Look at who is in Washingtons division:
Carolina, who can hardly be called a threat for the cup, if they can even squeak into the playoffs.
Florida, who is surprising to say the least, but same inexperience that ruins Chicago hopes of taking a run.
Tampa, not exactly cup contenders, to say the least.
Atlanta, lets be serious, they are a contender, for Tavares.
I do believe the Capitals are a good team, but i cannot see them coming out of the east. If there are no upsets the first round in the east, as of right now they would be playing a hopefully healthy Brodeur, and a hot team filled with good scorers and sturdy defense in the Devils. That might be a hard team to have a war of attrition with. Because eventually one goalie is going to break. And i don't think you have to be a genuis to figure out who will break more.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2009 : 11:43:20
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1) Although it was limited, the Capitals played as well without Ovechkin in the early part of they year. Sure, it is a big piece of thier offense, but not the only piece. He will be at least 1 PPG. If that is slowing him down, so be it.
2) I think you are giving some of those teams far too much credit. I take Washington's top 6 skills forwards over Calgary, Vancouver, and Philly. I would call it a tie with Chicago, New Jersey and Boston, and I would put Detroit and San Jose ahead of Washington. Even so, using your crazy list, Washington's top 6 forwards still put them in the top 10 teams in the league. I would put them more realistically between 3rd and 6th. (Fedorov and Nylander are both at or close to PPG players in the playoffs. They have been there before and Fedorov was a key element in Detroit's Cup. That experience is vital and it's something that other teams, specifically Boston, are missing)
3) I never said that I think Washington will win. All I said was that Washington has a far more legitimate shot at the Cup than Chicago does this year. You are right, based on regular season play to this point, Washington against either Boston or New Jersey would both be very tough to call. But in the end, Washington can out play any other team in the East. Chicago, on the other hand simply can not beat Detroit or San Jose. They would be in very tough against Calgary and Vancouver. Edmonton and Dallas could be potential issues but not likely.
Realistically Washington has 2 teams to compete with. Chicago has 4 teams to compete with(possibly up to 6) and two of them they won't beat. That's just simple math. |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2009 : 14:14:53
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1) Ovechkin missed 2 games this season according to the Capitals website. Harldy consider that a fair time to judge how much he would be missed. Your right, he is extremely hard to shut down, and most likely will not be by the first round. But once deeper into the playoffs against Jersey, Bruins, or maybe even Philly if they play eachother (Maybe).
2) I wouldn't call it a crazy list, its more a matter of preferance that i made that list. I would rather have those players on Vancouver, Calgary or Philly, etc. That is a rather hard part to argue. Stats wise, im sure washingtons first line is within top 5 of league for points, but going down to the second line i wouldn't think that they are close to that. I don't watch Capitals games, so i am merely going by stats ( perhaps a mistake, not sure). Brooks Laich is a -6, Kozlov is a -3, and again, not sure if they are second line players but they are the ones who are closest to the top line points wise.
3) Right, and i think we have gotten away from the topic. Truly, both are contenders this year. Anyone really has a shot, San Jose does have a history of choking come playoffs, so maybe thats one team Chicago won't need to face. Do i think Chicago will win this year? Not for a minute, but in the next 2 to 4 years, i think they have a legit shot, as long as they can keep their key players. I don't really think Washington is ready yet, they are one or two pieces short before making a true run. But who expected Edmonton to make that run a couple years ago? And just for conversation sake, Chicago will not have problems with Edmonton. (9-2 if anyone remembers that).
Chicago does have less of a chance, which i think everyone will agree. The west is too strong and too competitive for them to emerge as the conference champs. I think they will beat Vancouver if thats the series that it goes too. I think Chicago can beat Calgary as well, although that would be a very close series. I truly do not believe they can beat Detroit or San Jose yet, maybe in a couple years. Washington will advance to the second round im sure, but after that i don't see them having the team to get past the conference semi finals. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 09:36:55
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Thrasher, I think you are missing a couple things when you talk about teams shutting down AO during the playoffs.
1. As Beans said, NO ONE can truly shut down AO. They can slow him down but now shut him down. But that's already been addressed.
2. I noticed this during the Pittsburg/Washington game on Sunday. Pittsburg spent a lot of energy trying to control Ovechkin and trying to shut him down. They went out of their way to hit him and try and knock him off his game. However, this simply opened up the ice for the rest of the Washington players and created more chances for the rest of the team. Whoever Washington plays in the playoffs will have to try and find the right balance to contain both AO and the rest of the Washingon team. |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 15:46:33
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1) Thorntinistheman, i realize how difficult ovechkin is to shut down completely, but i did say he would be slowed down by the better teams he faces. In the first round, they would be playing a team like New York (as of now), and with a defensive core of that team, no doubt he would fly past all of them. But going deeper in requires playing the better defensive teams, such as New Jersey or Boston. I do believe they will find ways to slow him down, and put more pressure on the other players on Washington to pick up the scoring for him. And thats why i believe they need another second line scorer to fill out their roster.
2) Yes Pittsburg may have tried and failed, but i do believe a better team with a coach who has been around longer than 3 games will find ways to get in his way. Last year in the playoffs when Malkins struggles started, i don't think it was his fault, i think other teams learned out to contain him. And will less penalties, the Capitals powerplay will see less time, which will make players like Green and Ovechkin less feared. I am really not disagreeing with the fact that Ovechkin is probably the best player in the NHL and he is absolutely electric, but i don't think they have the team to do it yet. 2-4 years after maybe some signings or trades, but not yet. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2009 : 19:28:36
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I am thinking we are missing the forrest for the trees here. Sure, Ovechkin will be the main focus of any team he plays(playoffs or not) but he is the kind of player that doesn't have to score to impact the game. Unlike Malkin, Ovechkin can change the shape of a game by doing none offensive things (big hits, smart plays defensively,etc) and even more so, Ovechkin never gives up.
I think we might also be missing the point that the extra focus on Ovechkin will give the other skills forwards in Washington a little more room. Guys like Semin, Backstrom, Fedorov, Green, and Nylander(if he is still there) will take advantage of that additional space.
How is Washington, as 4th best team overall in the league, still 2-4 years away??? How is a team that has not lost more than 3 games in a row all season, has 2-5 game win streaks, another 7 game win streak, and won 16 of 20 not too long ago. They have actually improved in the last 30 games of the season compared to the first 30 games. They do not have a losing record against any team in the league. They have nearly a .600 win percentage against playoff teams and when you look at the East specifically, they are 15-4-4 (.652). They have not lost in regulation to Boston, New Jersey, or New York. Sure it regular season, but they are for real up to this point.
That teams is a legitimate Cup Contender today. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/23/2009 19:30:12 |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 02/23/2009 : 20:21:56
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I'd say it's up to Theodore to see how far Washington goes in the playoffs.
As for Chicago, they could do well. Remember the oilers squeaked into the playoffs and got to the cup final, and did so playing against very solid teams. That's the beauty of the new NHL, it's becoming more and more competitive like the NFL and its IMO up in the air as far as who gets to the cup final. |
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Chicago/Washington 
