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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
 Posted - 04/22/2009 : 10:13:12
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Rumours have it that the Sedin twins will be coming to Toronto this off season. With the signing of Sundin, the Canucks have litte cap room to work with and the Sedin's are favouring Toronto because of Burke. However, if the Canucks for deep into the playoffs this year, the Sedin's will return to Vancouver with paycuts. The other scenario is that Ohlund is ready to head to Leafs Nation.
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win"
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 10:22:08
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Sundin's deal was only until the end of this season and the Canucks would not give up the Sedin's in their peak to keep Sundin for another year. Not saying that the Canucks would not give up the Sedin's, I'm just that your Sundin reason is not very solid.
Agreed that if the Canucks go to the semi's or finals the Sedin's would knock off their premium and stay. Who wouldn't want to play with the best goalie in the league (sorry Marty, but it's true) |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 10:27:00
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I think the Sedin's will examine everything, the fact that Luongo is the best goalie in the NHL is a huge incentive. However, if there are other teams (Not just the Leafs) that make some moves or have a solid chance of contending next season, those will all be options for the twins. Also, if the Leafs are able to draft a "franchise" scorer, the Sedin's might be want to jump on that opprtunity, plus you know Burke respects the twins alot, the same way the twins are thankful to Burke for giving them their chance.
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 10:28:20
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well, Sundin isnt signed for next year, so he comes off the cap at the end of the season. I don't think Burke is going to pay the sedins the 6mil they will both be looking for, if he can get them at 4.5-5mil consider it. Although I do beleive it goes against a REAL rebuilding plan. It would seem like a short term fix to me.
Ditto for Ohlund, it may push them into the playoffs next year but long term i think it just hurts the team. Burke shouldn't sign anyone over 27, he should stockpile at LEAST 1 more high draft pick.
I hear strong Cammalleri to toronto rumours as well, although its probably just Howard Burger stirring up some leaf talk.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Reeder17
Rookie
Canada
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 11:07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
well, Sundin isnt signed for next year, so he comes off the cap at the end of the season. I don't think Burke is going to pay the sedins the 6mil they will both be looking for, if he can get them at 4.5-5mil consider it. Although I do beleive it goes against a REAL rebuilding plan. It would seem like a short term fix to me.
Ditto for Ohlund, it may push them into the playoffs next year but long term i think it just hurts the team. Burke shouldn't sign anyone over 27, he should stockpile at LEAST 1 more high draft pick.
I hear strong Cammalleri to toronto rumours as well, although its probably just Howard Burger stirring up some leaf talk.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Latest I had heard from my sources was that the Sedins actually want closer to 6.5 a year each.
Crosby is not the Lord & Savior of the NHL, get over yourself McGuire.
Gretzky has never once high-sticked a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. |
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rebekah
Top Prospect
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 11:21:52
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There is no doubt that the Sedin's will eventually go somewhere else, whether it be next season or not, however something tells me they might not be as good anywhere else as they are in Vancouver at this time. And I agree with Leigh that I don't think it has much to do with Sundin.
I guess I'm looking at it from the same light that the Naslund, Morrison, and Bertuzzi line hit a peak in Vancouver too and then eventually their effectiveness petered out until they separated and went to different teams, and now they're doing better than they were when they left Vancouver.
What I'm trying to say is, maybe now isn't the time for the Sedin's to leave. But then again I'm probably biased because of the fact that the Sedin's have been one of the few constants on the team in my time as a hockey fan.(No matter where they go, they'll always be Canucks to me). |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 13:12:14
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Would you really pay 6.5 mil for a point per game player? Let alone two of them. The sedins are playing very well right now, and if they go deep in the playoffs their stock will only rise.
I think Vancouver could get a bit of a discount on the two of them, probably in the 5.75mil range, but if another GM offers both the 6.5 mil they are looking for he is going to have some serious cap issues moving forward. Plus, there is no guarantee that they play as well in another city where the pressure of being a FA signing to big money will most likley be hanging over their heads. If they come to Toronto they will be scrutinized to death. (although to be fair, they have already endured a TON of critizism in Vancouver)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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mard65
Top Prospect
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 14:16:46
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More drug induced fantasies from Leaf fans who have nothing else to talk about since once again their team missed the playoffs....
Matt - I await your reply. Will probably not be very intelligent. |
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Guest9277
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Posted - 04/22/2009 : 14:50:36
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| Why would the Sedins want to come here? Why would the Leafs want them?!?! They won't be nearly good enough to contend next year, what's the point making a run for 9th. Rebuild! |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 00:55:44
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quote:
Originally posted by rebekah
I guess I'm looking at it from the same light that the Naslund, Morrison, and Bertuzzi line hit a peak in Vancouver too and then eventually their effectiveness petered out until they separated and went to different teams, and now they're doing better than they were when they left Vancouver.
None of those three players are doing better then they did in there last season with Vancouver
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Edited by - Canucks Man on 04/23/2009 00:56:10 |
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Reeder17
Rookie
Canada
112 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 06:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Would you really pay 6.5 mil for a point per game player? Let alone two of them. The sedins are playing very well right now, and if they go deep in the playoffs their stock will only rise.
I think Vancouver could get a bit of a discount on the two of them, probably in the 5.75mil range, but if another GM offers both the 6.5 mil they are looking for he is going to have some serious cap issues moving forward. Plus, there is no guarantee that they play as well in another city where the pressure of being a FA signing to big money will most likley be hanging over their heads. If they come to Toronto they will be scrutinized to death. (although to be fair, they have already endured a TON of critizism in Vancouver)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I would consider paying them that...I stress 'consider'. They bring a solid combined 164 points to your team and, which people look over, they bring a combined +60. So they are great defensive too.
Crosby is not the Lord & Savior of the NHL, get over yourself McGuire.
Gretzky has never once high-sticked a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
(ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - SPAM) |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 08:20:39
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quote:
Originally posted by mard65
More drug induced fantasies from Leaf fans who have nothing else to talk about since once again their team missed the playoffs....
Matt - I await your reply. Will probably not be very intelligent.
Ok first of all, what exactly did you say that is worth replying to? Drug induced fantasy? I didnt start this topic, ok?
If you read what I wrote, you'd see that I don't think they could (or should) sign the twins. They are probably staying in Vancouver.
Burke is a smart GM, he'll go after some good players this summer and probably land at least 1 or 2 of them. Cammalleri or JayBo are two players id rather see come to town. My real fantasy prize is Rick Nash at the end of next year.
Don't worry mard, i've got plenty of weed to smoke, i'll think of a couple other fantasys to keep you entertained.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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mard65
Top Prospect
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 08:40:34
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All I can say Matt is don't overrate Burke as a GM. You might have guessed by now I'm not a Leafs fan but I am a fan of one of his former employess (guess who)and he sure as hell didn't take us to the promised land....something about never being able to get us a real goalie.
Good luck with Burkie. His press conference the first day of the playoffs was a classic. Typical Burke and his need for attention. What exactly is he going to trade to Garth Snow and the Islanders to get a shot at Tavares? Some practice pucks, some sticks and tape? Gee maybe Snow would take Jason Blake straight up for the number one pick.
Enjoy Burkie...he's entertaining but way overrated. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 08:51:33
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Im not so sure. Burke is a VERY smart cat. Don't forget, this isn't just Burkie making decisions. He also has Nonis (who is responsible for the nucks team you have now) and Joe Nieuwendyk working for him.
Im not saying he is the best GM in the NHL, but he has won a stanley cup recently (dont start with the bryan murray stuff, i think there is another topic for that) and has impressed me with the way he is rapidly changing the culture around the maple leafs. In half a season he and wilson were able to eliminate the culture of entitlement amongst the players. If you dont play they way they want, you will sit. He also said, just because you have a contract with us does not mean you will continue to be a maple leaf. Given time, this team will be very tough to play against and will become one of the meanest teams in the NHL.
Im not predicting a stanley cup in the next couple years, but I do think that the days of the leafs being a pushover are coming to an end soon.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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mard65
Top Prospect
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 09:05:57
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| Matt - if we still had Nonis we would probably still have Byron Ritchie, Brad Isbister, Jeff Cowan and all the other stiffs that used to populate our 3rd and 4th lines. Don't give Nonis too much credit for this team. Afterall if we still had Nonis the immortal Fabian Brunnstrom would be playing in our top 6 forwards and we would be watching the playoffs just like you guys. I'm sorry but the reason we are where we are is Mike Gillis. He is slowly ridding this franchise of it's loser label. I'll give Nonis credit for Luongo but that's only because Mike Keenan is a bigger idiot than Nonis and loves Bertuzzi. Notice that Keenan has him in Calgary again. As for Nonis and Burke good riddance! It seems Anaheim is doing fine in the playoffs without him and the reason the Ducks won the Cup under Burke is because Murray had assembled a good team before he got there. Hmmm Neidermayer and Pronger - yeah give Burke all the credit. |
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Guest8141
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Posted - 04/23/2009 : 10:34:18
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Well, i just find it funny that anything that went wrong in vancouver and anaheim was all burke (and nonis') fault yet they don't get any credit for the good things they did there.
Nonis was fired because (supposedly) he didn't trade guys like burrows, kesler or raymond plus picks for someone like Brad Richards at the deadline last year. Aren't you glad that he didn't do that now? Nonis knew he had a good core in Vancouver and didn't want to dismantle it. If he had more time there he would be in the same position Gilles is in now.
Before Burke took over vancouver they were missing the playoffs every year, had Mark Messier 'leading' the team and were underacheiving big time. Within a year or two the Canucks became a powerhouse in the west and had one of the best lines in hockey firing on all cylinders (naslund, morisson and bertuzzi). While they bowed out in the playoffs (largley because of cloutier) he managed to establish a winning culture in vancouver, and its one that has been sustained since he left. I know they nucks missed the playoffs the other year but all in all, burke really helped turn the franchise around.
Bob Murray, the current Ducks gm, was Burkes right hand man and was a big part of the ducks team that won the cup. He also deserves alot of the blame for the cap problems that people blamed on burke, as assistant GMs have a huge roll in contract negotiations. Not to mention, that I would also hold out for Scott Neidermayer, the guy is amazing and was their captain. Burke was kind of handcuffed there.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 10:35:39
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that was me (see above)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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mard65
Top Prospect
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 15:17:40
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Nothing like a history lesson on the Canucks from a Leafs fan. A pwerhouse in the West? Are you kidding me? I was a season ticket holder during that era and while they had a lot of offense and played a pretty exciting brand of hockey they cetainly weren't a powerhouse.
Trust me, I got to personally witness them getting bounced from the playoffs 4 years in a row at home and each time with perhaps the exception of minnesota we lost to a better team -so much for being a powerhouse.
Bob Murray is the reason the Ducks have cap problems? Come on Matt - do you think Burkie let him sign these deals without knowing the numbers and how they would affect the franchise down the road. Like most everyone, I have a boss and I don't think I would be able to make financial decisions of that magnitude without my boss having the final say.
I'll give you credit for one of your points - Nonis was right not to trade away our future for Richards but Acquilini was certainly right in firing him. Look at the Canucks prospects and their draft record during the Burke/Nonis reign of error. All they have to show for their last few years here is Cory Schneider otherwise the cupboard is bare. We drafted Patrick White one spot ahead of David Perron and I bet White never plays an NHL game. Don't even mention drafting the Sedin's as we actually owned one of the picks so Burke really traded up to get the other and everyone with a high pick that year knew they wanted to and were best suited to being drafted and playing for the same team.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
that was me (see above)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 12:36:01
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i said bob murray had a role in the contract problems the team WAS experiencing. Not that he WAS the problem. Besides, it was the niedermayer holdout that caused all the trouble with anaheims cap, can't blame burke for that, who wouldnt wait to see if scott niedermayer would come back? Not to mention selanne as well.
Besides, the Ducks look pretty good right now don't they? Obviously the problems in anaheim weren't insurmountable and Bob Murray was able to pull of a couple deals and get his team out of a bind. Pronger, Niedermayer, Beauchiman (sp?), Whitney and Wisnewski make a formidable top 5 D. Burke already had getzlaf, Perry and Ryan locked up.
Ryan (drafted 2nd overall) was rated much lower by other clubs going into the draft that year, burke had tried to trade down but couldnt find a dance partner. Ryan looks like a stud and burke looks pretty good for taking this kid despite reports he had attitude issues and a work ethic that was less than stellar. According to burke, he could have been had as low as 5 or 6.
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As for the canucks, well, maybe 'powerhouse' was too strong of a word to use to describe the canucks then, but they had a couple 100 point seasons and a couple high 90 point seasons. Thats pretty good, no?
anyways, we'll see if Burke has learned from any past mistakes. If anyone realizes what Burke did right, and what Burke did wrong with his old clubs, its Burke himself.
Good luck to your Canucks. Maybe you guys will get cup #1 this year. Than its only 12 more to catch my Leafs. 
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
Edited by - Matt_Roberts85 on 04/27/2009 12:36:33 |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 14:52:24
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| Hey MattRoberts85 and Mard65 - great debate and some very good insight (I read every line!), but let's roll this topic back into the Sedin's. Thanks fellas! |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 04/27/2009 : 17:39:26
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| 12 more cups to catch the leafs.......ya lets play in a league where there are 6 teams and only 2 of them are any good must of been tough. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 04:45:03
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Seconded - fun to read this.
With the way Vancouver is playing, even if they get ousted by Chicago (which I don't think will happen, actually) the Sedins will want to stay in Vancouver. Only a better situation would lure them away, and I don't see Toronto as a better place for them as they rebuild. I see a pay cut in their future, but not a huge one.
I just don't see the Sedins coming to TO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 10:52:19
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Yea I dont think the twins are coming here either.
Whats with some people saying that cup wins in the original 6 days shouldnt count? or that somehow they mean less?
To me they mean even more. That (imo) was the golden age of hockey. The Stanley Cup was never an easy trophy to win, and every time a team wins it, no matter what era it is, its a special acheivment. (sorry to get off topic again)
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 14:29:01
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the reason they would leave is burkie. he went to so much trouble to keep them together in the first place to sign with him would also be like a home town disccount in vancouver. its eitehr nucks or laughs so its not gonna be good for me eitehr way
I don't bring the controversey it comes to me.
Iginla for 2010 team captain!!! |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2009 : 05:35:35
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quote:
Originally posted by hockster
the reason they would leave is burkie. he went to so much trouble to keep them together in the first place to sign with him would also be like a home town disccount in vancouver. its eitehr nucks or laughs so its not gonna be good for me eitehr way
I don't bring the controversey it comes to me.
Iginla for 2010 team captain!!!
Don't agree with the "Laughs" comment, but I do agree that Iginla should wear the "C" in Vancouver! 
but back to the Leafs, Burke has an upper hand over every other team just because he knows the Sedins on a personal level.
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2009 : 14:05:50
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| The sedins are only worth 10-11 million a year max. That # is only if they go together. If the Leaf's want to pay the 13 million the Sedins want, then the Leafs may get them. But, isnt this the same GM who was pissed when another team over payed for Penner! Chances are they will sign for 10-11 million in Vancouver. |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2009 : 15:57:55
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quote:
The sedins are only worth 10-11 million a year max.
id say the sedins together are worth at least that with a discount they a ppg player |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2009 : 12:03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
The sedins are only worth 10-11 million a year max. That # is only if they go together. If the Leaf's want to pay the 13 million the Sedins want, then the Leafs may get them. But, isnt this the same GM who was pissed when another team over payed for Penner! Chances are they will sign for 10-11 million in Vancouver.
Combined for 164 Points this year, 10-11 for them would be a steal, market value, they will sign for at least 13 together...
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 11:34:08
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Ok, so the Canucks didn't go as far as people hoped...what does that mean....no more Sedin twins in Van-city!!
No way Gillis can afford $63 Million each. Ok, 12 years is a bit much, but like I said, they'll sign for 10-11/year, combined, absolute steal! Also, they'll be wearing Blue & White next year!!! :D:D haha
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:11:17
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| No I said they are worth 10-11. You said that would be a steal at 10-11. I do think Burke will make a play for them but they only go to TO for 13ish combined a year over 2-3 years. They would probably recieve the most money if they signed together in NYI long term. This would probably be the best hope NYI would have for a quick rebuild and currently they have 26 million in cap space with 17 signed. Not bad if your going to rebuild and now they got the #1 pick. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:26:37
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
No I said they are worth 10-11. You said that would be a steal at 10-11. I do think Burke will make a play for them but they only go to TO for 13ish combined a year over 2-3 years. They would probably recieve the most money if they signed together in NYI long term. This would probably be the best hope NYI would have for a quick rebuild and currently they have 26 million in cap space with 17 signed. Not bad if your going to rebuild and now they got the #1 pick.
Yea, sign the Sedins, and Draft Hedman...
They'd have two superstars up front, and Streit and Hedman on the back end
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:40:12
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| I think people throw the term "superstar" around far to loosely. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:43:20
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| Or, JT to play with the Sedins or Weight. Either way it would be a quick fix. I say no-way does NYI trade away #1. TO easy to rebuild with that much possiblity come free-agency. But that owner does some dumb things. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 13:00:39
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
I think people throw the term "superstar" around far to loosely.
Agreed, if we are refering to the Sedin's. But if you watched them last year, the do have potential. Definatly stars. |
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Twins to Leafs 
