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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2009 : 13:15:19
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With players like Sidney Crosby and Tim Thomas leading the way for their clubs in the playoffs, I was just wondering if the NHL should not only vote on, but nominate players for awards after the playoffs are over. Shouldn't the MVP and Vezina (as examples) be awarded to players that really step up their game when it counts the most? The regular season is only half the battle and most people would take playoffs into consideration when they think of the real "MVP" of the league, or who the best goalie really is. I'm sure there are factors im not considering right now, so maybe someone can shine a light as to why I may be wrong on this. Perhaps, you may agree. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Guest2559
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Posted - 05/14/2009 : 13:25:12
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| um i think they have a playoff MVP award allready. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 13:25:17
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Just to add to the topic, I'm not trying to say that playoffs should be the #1 deciding factor in who wins awards, i'm just saying take them into consideration. The reason I thought of this is because I think it is kind of a joke to have Malkin nominated for the Hart while Crosby isn't... clearly we can all see who is more valuable to the pens. Also, Thomas and Mason have comparible regular season stats and it could kind of go either way based on that alone, but doesn't Thomas' playoff performance so far push him over the top?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 13:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2559
um i think they have a playoff MVP award allready.
no no, you dont get what im saying. Im not talking about just a playoff MVP, keep the Conne Smythe (of course) but take into consideration how well players do when they are in the playoffs. Wouldn't someone who is nominated for a selke, and does a fantastic job of playing well defensivley in the playoffs, get a step ahead of guys who would also be nominated but didn't play as well...?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 14:32:53
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Couple of reason's why I disagree. Firstly, because most people (rightly or wrongly, intentionally or not) decide by the 'it's not what you have done, it's what you have done lately' theory. For example, less than a month ago, by overwhelming odds, the folks on this forum believe Mike Green is the Norris winner this year. However, he looked average, or even below average in the playoffs. That takes nothing away from what he did in the regular season, but it would impact the voting.
Secondly, it limits the players who had outstanding seasons but their team missed the playoffs. Such as Backstrom for the Vezina. Also, looking at a guy like Mason (also for the Vezina) out in the first round.
Nope, I emphatically disagree that the playoffs should count towards any of the current awards. However, I would not be opposed to a few more playoff trophies that would rewards not only the MVP, but maybe the best defesemen, best goalie, best defensive foward, and maybe an all play off first team. |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 14:53:41
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Matt sure Crosby is playing better now then Malkin is but that doesn't take away from what Malkin did in the regular season. You have to look at Malkins play during the regular season and think that if he had not played so well maybe the pens dont jump into 4th place and maybe they're out of the playoffs. Its all what ifs but Malkin was the better player between the two during the regular season therfore he deserves to be in the running for the Heart and Crosby was good but not as good as some other so he is not.
Beans as far as a trophy per position I dont really like it. It take away from the Conne Smyth. I wouldn't mind seeing an all playoff team but as long as it was on the back burner something decided a couple days after the final, other wise its another thing you have to watch before they get to lift the cup. And if they would make a first all star team I can tell you now how would win. The top scoring forward from the loosing team and 1 D-Man 90% of the time 2 Forwards 1 D-Man from the champs and wich ever goalie played better in the final. So 90% of the time the winning team. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 08:27:21
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Beans - I agree, people do have the what have you done for me latley mentality. But I would bet that the people who do the voting would be pretty cautious when it came to taking playoffs into consideration.
Like I said, its not the 'be-all, end-all" to deciding who gets it. Im thinking that it could just influence a tough decision.
I see your point, and I do agree that it probably should stay just regular season, I just find that the real cream of the crop, rises to the top come playoff time.
Meh, just a thought..
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 00:12:06
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Keep them separate. Then guys like Semin and Ovechkin still have something to play hard for.
Before you go freaking out at me, consider Ovy's answer to Michael Landsberg on OTR before the Pens/Caps series.
Landsberg - Which is more important...winning at the Olympics or winning the Stanley Cup?
Ovy: Both
Landsberg: You've gotta pick just one.
Ovy:.....uhh.....right now the Stanley Cup.
Landsberg: Good answer (relieved).
Guys like Ovy and Semin don't play for the Stanley Cup. They like winning, prefer it, but make no bones about it, they are playing for their own glory out there.
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shazariahl
Top Prospect
50 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 16:33:44
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I agree with Beans - too much would come down to the playoffs. It doesn't make sense to me that a guy could have a great season and through no fault of his own, his team misses the playoffs, so he gets basically cut out of any awards. We already have a playoff MVP award, and I like them being separate. Besides, the season is so long and already seems to count for little enough.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 08:46:01
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point well taken... however, how often are guys nominated for the hart trophy despite missing the playoffs....
It did happen with the vezina this year with backstrom, but its still pretty rare...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 09:22:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
point well taken... however, how often are guys nominated for the hart trophy despite missing the playoffs....
It did happen with the vezina this year with backstrom, but its still pretty rare...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Well I think the players that are legitimate candidates for awards, who miss out because they play for a crap teams, probably sign big contracts to stay on a crap team. Hummmm....(Stanley cup and Norris) or (Spring golfing, World Cup and MULTI-Millionaire.)
Guys like Nash, Kovalchuk, Streit and Doan ain't going nowhere and dont care if there play for the NHL come April, May, June. Come contract time they get a salary like a real MVP who plays his heart out in the latter months. How is this right. I say players who play well but dont make the playoffs-awards get the better end here. |
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shazariahl
Top Prospect
50 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 00:40:24
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| If you think those guys don't care about winning a cup, I think you are very wrong. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 04:42:25
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Fly4puckguy - you are out of your mind if you think Ovie wasn't trying his very very best, putting in his absolute maximum effort level, for the Stanley Cup.
I think if you ask Sidney Crosby the same question - Gold Medal for Canada in the Olympics (in Canada next year, remember!) or Stanley Cup, he makes the same answer - both, with the same caveat - right now, whatever one I am playing for.
But in my heart of hearts, I'd have to think Crosby would feel that the gold medal is a bit more dear.
They are all professionals, and I would wager they try their very best for every tournament and competition to a certain point; but in terms of value, I'd guess most players would value a gold medal just slightly above a stanley cup.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 07:30:16
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Oh, and to reply to the actual topic at hand - no, I don't think playoffs should be included. Keep the playoff trophies seperate.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 11:23:43
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Fly4puckguy - you are out of your mind if you think Ovie wasn't trying his very very best, putting in his absolute maximum effort level, for the Stanley Cup.
I think if you ask Sidney Crosby the same question - Gold Medal for Canada in the Olympics (in Canada next year, remember!) or Stanley Cup, he makes the same answer - both, with the same caveat - right now, whatever one I am playing for.
But in my heart of hearts, I'd have to think Crosby would feel that the gold medal is a bit more dear.
They are all professionals, and I would wager they try their very best for every tournament and competition to a certain point; but in terms of value, I'd guess most players would value a gold medal just slightly above a stanley cup.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo is dead right on this as far as the Stanly Cup vs. Olympic Gold goes. You get 1 chance every 4 years (if your good enough) to get an Olympic Gold Medal. You have as much a chance at the start of every season to win the Cup. It's understandable that a player or player's care about both. And who wouldn't want their entire country jumping for joy when they score the OT winner or whatever may happen in the Canada Russia final next year. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2009 : 13:13:10
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wow.... I would take a stanley cup ANY day of the week over a gold medal. Dont get me wrong, an olympic gold would be amazing, but it is 10x harder to win the stanley cup. 82 game season and 4 7 game series to top it off.
Way back in the day, for Canadians and Americans it was all about the cup, pros werent allowed to compete in the olympics than, so it was usually europeans who were after the gold medal. Which is why winning a gold would probably be #1 on the list for most euro skaters.
But for a canadian boy, ill take a stanley cup. the trophy our forefathers fought for.
You can make a great arguement for a gold as well (would make a solid topic in the great debate - Cup vs Gold) but the gold comes in as a close #2 for me.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 09:32:52
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| Next year may be the last time NHL players are allowed to compete in the Olympics, So for some young solid Canadian hockey players like Crosby, Taves etc. it could be the first and last time they get a shot at winning the Gold. I wouldn't rate it as high as the Stanley Cup personally either, but my answer would be the same as Ovies if I were asked which was more important. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 13:46:34
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there is no way the NHL pulls players from the olympics, its just too special of an event to just skip... especially with the amount of euros in the NHL now.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 15:07:12
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One has to remember that the NHL players loved being in the Olympics when it's been held(or is going to be held) in North America. However, the Turino games created a ton of problems. Shutting down the league for 2 weeks. Tape delayed games. Players leaving a day before the Olympics started and playing NHL games the day after the Olympics end when they are held 1/2 way around the world is difficult to say the least. Plus, do the owners, players, league, etc make dime one???
The games in 2014 are in Russia. It's going to be very interesting to see if the NHL does release the players to partake in those Games.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 06/01/2009 15:07:51 |
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Should Playoffs count towards the NHL awards? 
