| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2009 : 11:45:21
|
Looks like Edmonton has a big hole in their franchise.... not many guys could fill it. Rolosons gone and a new era is starting. I could only see Khabibulin being good enough to start out of the goalies left on FAs. If they dont pick him up they are in trouble!
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually.
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 12:12:30
|
| What's up with Huet? Heard the Hawks may have to stick him in the minors and eat his contract to stay under the cap? Can't a team like Edmonton use a guy like this? Surely with the contract, the Hawks wouldn't be demanding much in a trade? He's proven he can be a number 1 and if Edm loses Roloson, i'd say they could use him? |
 |
|
|
lyall
PickupHockey Pro
360 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 13:13:35
|
Khabibulin 4 yrs 15 million.
I think this is a good signing. 3.75/yr isn't too bad of a price, not as cheap a Roli, but younger, better and more playoff experience. Bulin brings a cup ring with him as well. He is 36 so he will be 40 when this contact ends. But the way i see it, by the time the 4th year comes around Deslauriers could be splitting the net hand be ready to take the number one spot in 5 years. He should be a good mentor. |
Edited by - lyall on 07/01/2009 13:27:44 |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 13:31:49
|
Khabibulin is about the only goalie on the market that is actually an upgrade on Roloson. The Oilers did offer Roloson a 1 yr, $3 million deal so obviously, the 2 year deal in NY was better for Roli. Another season of playing and another $2 million in the bank.
But I like the deal for Khabibulin. At 36, he's 3 yeard younger than Roloson and he has won the Cup. Good addition for the Oilers. Perhaps it's also opening the gate for bigger named free agents to finally want to sign in Edmonton. Khabibulin had to be the biggest or one of the biggest goalie's on the market this UFA season.
Now, with Heatly looking like he doesn't want to come to Edmonton and Hossa signing long term with Chicago, where is Havlat going?? Maybe Edmonton??? Who knows |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 13:37:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Khabibulin is about the only goalie on the market that is actually an upgrade on Roloson. The Oilers did offer Roloson a 1 yr, $3 million deal so obviously, the 2 year deal in NY was better for Roli. Another season of playing and another $2 million in the bank.
But I like the deal for Khabibulin. At 36, he's 3 yeard younger than Roloson and he has won the Cup. Good addition for the Oilers. Perhaps it's also opening the gate for bigger named free agents to finally want to sign in Edmonton. Khabibulin had to be the biggest or one of the biggest goalie's on the market this UFA season.
Now, with Heatly looking like he doesn't want to come to Edmonton and Hossa signing long term with Chicago, where is Havlat going?? Maybe Edmonton??? Who knows
Beans bud...
Im sorry but the way i see this is for more money a small upgrade in the net. If they would have signed Rolli they would have had alot of left over money to get a guy like Havlat. I dont see them being able to manipulate the cap enough to sign a top name guy like that.
I see this signing as a gain, but with the potential they had to get one or two solid or even great players and have a small downgrade in the pipes, I see them not being a playoff Team yet and they could have been.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Guest0459
( )
|
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 14:14:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by hockster
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Khabibulin is about the only goalie on the market that is actually an upgrade on Roloson. The Oilers did offer Roloson a 1 yr, $3 million deal so obviously, the 2 year deal in NY was better for Roli. Another season of playing and another $2 million in the bank.
But I like the deal for Khabibulin. At 36, he's 3 yeard younger than Roloson and he has won the Cup. Good addition for the Oilers. Perhaps it's also opening the gate for bigger named free agents to finally want to sign in Edmonton. Khabibulin had to be the biggest or one of the biggest goalie's on the market this UFA season.
Now, with Heatly looking like he doesn't want to come to Edmonton and Hossa signing long term with Chicago, where is Havlat going?? Maybe Edmonton??? Who knows
Beans bud...
Im sorry but the way i see this is for more money a small upgrade in the net. If they would have signed Rolli they would have had alot of left over money to get a guy like Havlat. I dont see them being able to manipulate the cap enough to sign a top name guy like that.
I see this signing as a gain, but with the potential they had to get one or two solid or even great players and have a small downgrade in the pipes, I see them not being a playoff Team yet and they could have been.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually.
Your just mad the Bulin wall is a flame killer Northwest this year baby woo Quinn and Renney |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 15:00:36
|
| More money?? The deal for Khabibulin is only $750,000 more than they offered Rolson. Above that, it's virtually the same cap hit than they had with Rolson's old contract. It's a complete wash. Younger goalie, Cup back ground. Khabibulin is a full step up. He's about the only guy who was a full step up on Roloson. |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 15:02:17
|
You guys love him and think hes an all star when hes in Edmonton but when he leaves you think hes Sh*t, Typical Oilers fans.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Guest0459
( )
|
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 15:20:35
|
| 1st round cough cough the Bulin Wall will outshine kippersoft anyday |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 17:26:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0459
1st round cough cough the Bulin Wall will outshine kippersoft anyday
To bad Oilers will never play Calgary in the playoffs, Reason: they dont got the firepower to make it in the playoffs in the long stretch.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 17:40:32
|
Hockster, you might want to check you comments and who they are directed to. Firstly, I was a huge advocate for Roloson to resign in Edmonton in other threads. He was, head and shoulders, the best Oiler last season. I never that Edmonton could sign Khabibulin for less then $4 million a year, and I am happy about it. I never cut up Roloson at all. Not once.
And you're dead right. The Oilers are lacking the firepower to score enough to win games. There is no doubt. Why do you think they are going after Heatley?? Put a 40+ goal scorer in the Oilers line up, they compete with the Flames.
And to say the Oilers don't have the fire power to compete with the Flames long into the playoffs is the pot calling the kettle black is it not?? How many times in the past 20 years have the Flames been past the 1st round of the playoffs???
You might also want to take a look at the 40 goal scorer that just left Calgary and a 15 goal scoring defencemen took his place before you start shooting down other team's offense.
Only time will tell. There are still UFA's and trades out there. Edmonton improved with their pick up of Khabibulin. Calgary improved defensively with Bouwmeester but who's going to replace the offense that is now in Montreal??? |
|
|
|
Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 18:34:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
And you're dead right. The Oilers are lacking the firepower to score enough to win games. There is no doubt. Why do you think they are going after Heatley?? Put a 40+ goal scorer in the Oilers line up, they compete with the Flames.
And to say the Oilers don't have the fire power to compete with the Flames long into the playoffs is the pot calling the kettle black is it not?? How many times in the past 20 years have the Flames been past the 1st round of the playoffs???
Come on Beans, you can't mean that. Let's start from the goalie out.
Kiprusoff vs. Khabibulun, Flames win
Phaneuf, Regehr, Bouwmeester, Sarich vs Souray, Staios, Gilbert and Visnovsky, Flames win
Iginla vs Heatley, Flames win
Jokenin vs Horcoff, Flames win
You go down the offense and the Flames just keep winning. The Oil have some good young legs with guys like Cogliano, Gagner, Penner and great speed in Pisani, Hemsky and what-not, but the Flames are a much stronger team and are better built for the bruising play of the post-season, in my opinion. Waiting for the reply I'm sure is coming.  |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2009 : 19:15:57
|
Beans, Iginla made Cammaleri. When they were split up Iginla still produced but Cammaleri did not. Without Iginla he scored like ten points (idk actual number) and at most three or four goals. They wont need him with a strong back end. Remember their cup run?
Terrible forwards centered around Iginla with no secondary scoring. But their defence was great and now their defence is even better. They need a second liner and thats it. One guy and they are on of the top three teams in the league if they can ink him.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Guest9235
( )
|
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 01:08:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
And you're dead right. The Oilers are lacking the firepower to score enough to win games. There is no doubt. Why do you think they are going after Heatley?? Put a 40+ goal scorer in the Oilers line up, they compete with the Flames.
And to say the Oilers don't have the fire power to compete with the Flames long into the playoffs is the pot calling the kettle black is it not?? How many times in the past 20 years have the Flames been past the 1st round of the playoffs???
Come on Beans, you can't mean that. Let's start from the goalie out.
Kiprusoff vs. Khabibulun, Flames win
Phaneuf, Regehr, Bouwmeester, Sarich vs Souray, Staios, Gilbert and Visnovsky, Flames win
Iginla vs Heatley, Flames win
Jokenin vs Horcoff, Flames win
You go down the offense and the Flames just keep winning. The Oil have some good young legs with guys like Cogliano, Gagner, Penner and great speed in Pisani, Hemsky and what-not, but the Flames are a much stronger team and are better built for the bruising play of the post-season, in my opinion. Waiting for the reply I'm sure is coming.
Um for one, your goaltending competition fails based on last year.
Last year
Roli vs Kipper, Roli wins
Roli vs Khabibulin, Khabibulin wins therefore
Khabibulin vs kipper, Khabibulin wins
Also, if the Oilers were to have Heatley, they would not have Penner or Cogliano. And are you sure on Jokinen? He did almost nothing after his first couple of games with Calgary. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 07:15:32
|
Alex (and Hockster for that matter) I would definately put the Oilers up against the Flames. It's not player against player, it's team against team. Looking at the two teams last season, Edmonton won 3 games, lost 2 in regulation, and lost one in a shoot out. BOth teams had 19 goals in those 6 games. So who is really better??
You also have to consider that Edmonton played 1/2 of those games without one of their best defensement (Visnovsky). So now, put a better goalie in net for Edmonton, a better defensemen in Calgary, and remove a 40 goal scorer from Calgary. Are they really that far apart??? Nope.
I still don't think Edmonton is done with deal. Add Heatley, or another bonified 1st line player and they two very decent teams. I will even admit that Calgary, on paper, is a better team. But we are looking at (with a few pieces for both teams) the potential for the 2 teams in Alberta to be 2 of the best in the west. It would be great to see the 2 teams fight all year for the NW.
Khabibulin is a big part of that. |
|
|
|
Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 07:51:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex (and Hockster for that matter) I would definately put the Oilers up against the Flames. It's not player against player, it's team against team. Looking at the two teams last season, Edmonton won 3 games, lost 2 in regulation, and lost one in a shoot out. BOth teams had 19 goals in those 6 games. So who is really better??
You also have to consider that Edmonton played 1/2 of those games without one of their best defensement (Visnovsky). So now, put a better goalie in net for Edmonton, a better defensemen in Calgary, and remove a 40 goal scorer from Calgary. Are they really that far apart??? Nope.
I still don't think Edmonton is done with deal. Add Heatley, or another bonified 1st line player and they two very decent teams. I will even admit that Calgary, on paper, is a better team. But we are looking at (with a few pieces for both teams) the potential for the 2 teams in Alberta to be 2 of the best in the west. It would be great to see the 2 teams fight all year for the NW.
Khabibulin is a big part of that.
Sticking with the Bulin Wall...Beans, happy about the signing? :P
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:36:55
|
Let's just say I am not unhappy. Roloson was more than capable to handle the net in Edmonton. But it's obvious that this is Roloson's final contract so he was maximizing his cash. He makes another $2 million and plays at least 1 more season with the Islanders, so you can't blame him. Khabibulin, sure I think he's better than Roloson. He's got the numbers and the Ring to prove it. He did a lot last year in Chicago to go from on waivers to the Western Conference finals considering there was a capable #1 on the bench waiting to take his spot. The guys definately has the chops.
Although I think 'Bulin's got 3ish solid years left, he is more on a decline than the incline of his career. But, along with every media guy I have heard talk about this, of the goalies that were available, the one in net in Edmonton today is an upgrade.
Still need scoring, sure hope Heatley gets his head out of his a$$ today. |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:49:13
|
It will be interesting. Because Khabibulin has only succeeded with some great players around him. Because Edmonton has weak skaters I doubt he makes a difference. We take Roloson for granted because he did great with terrible defenseman and forwards. He is alot better goalie then people say because he was their team, he was the one component that kept them in it.
I do not know if Khabibulin can do this.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:51:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9235
quote:
Originally posted by Alex
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
And you're dead right. The Oilers are lacking the firepower to score enough to win games. There is no doubt. Why do you think they are going after Heatley?? Put a 40+ goal scorer in the Oilers line up, they compete with the Flames.
And to say the Oilers don't have the fire power to compete with the Flames long into the playoffs is the pot calling the kettle black is it not?? How many times in the past 20 years have the Flames been past the 1st round of the playoffs???
Come on Beans, you can't mean that. Let's start from the goalie out.
Kiprusoff vs. Khabibulun, Flames win
Phaneuf, Regehr, Bouwmeester, Sarich vs Souray, Staios, Gilbert and Visnovsky, Flames win
Iginla vs Heatley, Flames win
Jokenin vs Horcoff, Flames win
You go down the offense and the Flames just keep winning. The Oil have some good young legs with guys like Cogliano, Gagner, Penner and great speed in Pisani, Hemsky and what-not, but the Flames are a much stronger team and are better built for the bruising play of the post-season, in my opinion. Waiting for the reply I'm sure is coming.
Um for one, your goaltending competition fails based on last year.
Last year
Roli vs Kipper, Roli wins
Roli vs Khabibulin, Khabibulin wins therefore
Khabibulin vs kipper, Khabibulin wins
Also, if the Oilers were to have Heatley, they would not have Penner or Cogliano. And are you sure on Jokinen? He did almost nothing after his first couple of games with Calgary.
Is this a joke?
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:53:51
|
I tend to have to agree with Hockster and Alex here. I believe the Bouwmeester signing goes far beyond his defensive play. He is an elite defenseman and will help the character on the team (Along with Dion Phaneuff). Forget about points he has, but his two way play is in the top five in the league. There is a reason that, had Bouwmeester been a UFA, he would have been highly sought after.
Besides the fact that the Flames defense corps is better, the thing that will really make Calgary a winner is Brent Sutter's defense-first coaching. And this will be huge, a truly team defense game will be in play that will lock othr teams out. Kipper is an elite goaltender, better than Khabibulin. With the defense in front of him I can only wonder as to how many shutouts he will have next year. Early Vezina trophy candidate for sure.
Overall, I think Calgary is better coached (although Quinn and Tom Renney are no slouches, but the Flames coaching will work amazing with the team. It's actually really exciting to see). They are also better on offense (Cammy was a great addition, but Iginla truly made him what he is. 41 goals will not happen without Iginla by his side. If Iggy, Jokinen and company can make the players around them better I can see the Flames as one of the legitimate contenders next year, moreso than I do already.) And they are better defensively as a unit + goalie.
Edmonton can add their 40 goal scorer in Heatley, but Calgary is still better due to their defense-first mentality. Sutter and Jay Bou will make this team a winner. Watch. |
|
|
|
Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:16:54
|
Pitting Edmonton vs. Calgary...right now, the Flames' D would shut down the Oilers scoring, or lack there of. If Edmonton wants to contend in the Northwest, they need a guy who can put them in the net. Not a bunch of young, speedy playmakers, they need a big, tough, sniper...Heatley would fit, but at this point, does anyone in Edmonton really want him?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:20:11
|
Ok, let's look at things from a different perspective for a second.
Calgary has the 4th worst different between goals for and goal against than any other team. They were +6. Looking at the teams who actually did something in the playoffs last year they were all + by double digits. Detroit and Chicago were +51 and +48 respectively. Do you think that lossing a 40 goal scorer and adding Bouwmeester is going to improve that??? Calgary is banking nearly 100% of thier offense on Iginla and who ever he is staking with. If by any chance he slumps or gets injured, how does Calgary win??? You can't win without any offense.
Obviously, this is two very different views regarding Edmonton and Calgary, so I will be stepping away and letting the season talk. We will see what Edmonton and Calgary do in the next few months going into the new season and then what 82+ games will tell us. If I have to eat crow, I will. But if Edmonton does what I think they can do, I will make sure every knows I told you so.
|
|
|
|
Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:28:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ok, let's look at things from a different perspective for a second.
Calgary has the 4th worst different between goals for and goal against than any other team. They were +6. Looking at the teams who actually did something in the playoffs last year they were all + by double digits. Detroit and Chicago were +51 and +48 respectively. Do you think that lossing a 40 goal scorer and adding Bouwmeester is going to improve that??? Calgary is banking nearly 100% of thier offense on Iginla and who ever he is staking with. If by any chance he slumps or gets injured, how does Calgary win??? You can't win without any offense.
Obviously, this is two very different views regarding Edmonton and Calgary, so I will be stepping away and letting the season talk. We will see what Edmonton and Calgary do in the next few months going into the new season and then what 82+ games will tell us. If I have to eat crow, I will. But if Edmonton does what I think they can do, I will make sure every knows I told you so.
Well said, you actually make a good point. The Flames lost Cammelleri, and didn't replace him with anyone. From what I hear, Bourque is supposed to take over his spot on Iginla's line with Jokinen. Also, well said again, still a ways to go until all 82 games have been played. We'll have to wait until next April to see if Oil Country can smack talk the Red Mile...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
|
|
|
leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:33:34
|
The thing is though that Calgary made their defense so good that they will not need to score many goals to win. That is why losing Cammy is not a huge loss. Calgary won't win 5-3, 6-5 type games, but more along the lines of 3-1, 2-0 etc.
Really at this point we can speculate to no end. I can proclaim Calgary has done everything proper to win next year and Beans can fully and completely argue that Edmonton will kick Calgary's ass. None of us are right until October.
At least speculating gives us some great hockey talk, |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:11:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ok, let's look at things from a different perspective for a second.
Calgary has the 4th worst different between goals for and goal against than any other team. They were +6. Looking at the teams who actually did something in the playoffs last year they were all + by double digits. Detroit and Chicago were +51 and +48 respectively. Do you think that lossing a 40 goal scorer and adding Bouwmeester is going to improve that??? Calgary is banking nearly 100% of thier offense on Iginla and who ever he is staking with. If by any chance he slumps or gets injured, how does Calgary win??? You can't win without any offense.
Obviously, this is two very different views regarding Edmonton and Calgary, so I will be stepping away and letting the season talk. We will see what Edmonton and Calgary do in the next few months going into the new season and then what 82+ games will tell us. If I have to eat crow, I will. But if Edmonton does what I think they can do, I will make sure every knows I told you so.
Well said, you actually make a good point. The Flames lost Cammelleri, and didn't replace him with anyone. From what I hear, Bourque is supposed to take over his spot on Iginla's line with Jokinen. Also, well said again, still a ways to go until all 82 games have been played. We'll have to wait until next April to see if Oil Country can smack talk the Red Mile...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
If you look at it though, Jbo will have so many fewer goals scored on them, and this could easily help the teams +/-. If you look at Cammaleri last year and Bourque they are similar players. I see Bourque scoring 35+ goals playing with Iginla, same as Cammaleri. I see the Cammaleri of last offseason and Bourque so similar, I can see him replicating what Cammaleri did.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:19:33
|
It's funny because there are positives and negatives on both sides of the debate between both teams. Could Bourque score 30+, he scored 21 last year, so it is possible. Could J-Bo and Dion shut down just about anyone, possible...on the otherside, can the Flames only get points from Iginla and Jokinen, possible lol
Can Khabibulin push the Oil to the playoffs, possible. Can the Oil youth turn the corner to become top scorers, possible...so you see, a hell of a lot of possibilities on both sides lol
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
Edited by - Rambo2305 on 07/02/2009 12:20:54 |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:46:28
|
He also missed 24 games this year so I would have thought he might put up 28-31 on the second line. Cant wait to see what he does with Iggy.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 14:20:06
|
Here's the million dollar question.
Can Bouwmeester stop more goals from being scored that Cammellari can score??
Even if you say that Bourque will score 28-31 goals, that's still 10ish less than Cammellari did. Plus, who's going to put in the 20+ goals that Bourque did get last season???
With all due respect to the Flames, and as good defensively as they appear with adding Bouwmeester, without consistant secondary scoring, their fate in the future will be similar to the past. Not speaking as a fan of the Oilers, any hockey team needs secondary scoring to succeed and the Flames are not looking really strong in that department. They will definately have one of the best if not the best defenses in the league, but they need more than Iginla, Jokinen, and Bourque to compete.
I see them no better or worse overall than last year. At least to this point. The find someone who can put in 20 goals, they are a better team. Even if you think Bourque can take Cammellari's spot(which I am doubtful of but agree that it is possible) you still have to replace the 30+ goals scored between Bourque and Bertuzzi last season. Find that player and the Flames are better. Go to ice with what's there today, they are simple as good, but no better.
On the other hand, I do believe that Edmonton is better than last year already. A full season with O'Sullivan. Khabibulin for an entire season and a coach that demands accountability. That's better already. |
|
|
|
hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 15:46:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here's the million dollar question.
Can Bouwmeester stop more goals from being scored that Cammellari can score??
Even if you say that Bourque will score 28-31 goals, that's still 10ish less than Cammellari did. Plus, who's going to put in the 20+ goals that Bourque did get last season???
With all due respect to the Flames, and as good defensively as they appear with adding Bouwmeester, without consistant secondary scoring, their fate in the future will be similar to the past. Not speaking as a fan of the Oilers, any hockey team needs secondary scoring to succeed and the Flames are not looking really strong in that department. They will definately have one of the best if not the best defenses in the league, but they need more than Iginla, Jokinen, and Bourque to compete.
I see them no better or worse overall than last year. At least to this point. The find someone who can put in 20 goals, they are a better team. Even if you think Bourque can take Cammellari's spot(which I am doubtful of but agree that it is possible) you still have to replace the 30+ goals scored between Bourque and Bertuzzi last season. Find that player and the Flames are better. Go to ice with what's there today, they are simple as good, but no better.
On the other hand, I do believe that Edmonton is better than last year already. A full season with O'Sullivan. Khabibulin for an entire season and a coach that demands accountability. That's better already.
How can you talk about a full season with OSullivan when the flames finally got a whole season with Jokinen.
Predictions: They got Iginla 95 point guy, Jokinen: 85, Borque: 65 points, Langkow: 50 points, Moss: 25 goals 50 Points, Conroy: 45 points, Glenncross: 35-40 Points, Boyd: 35 points, Nystrom Peters Prust: Combined 65 - 80 points.
Phaneuf Bouwmeester: 50+ points each, Sarich 30 Points, Regher 20 points, Pardy and Giordano 20 points each.
You cant tell me this lineup cant score, and this isnt even me making longshot predictions. This is thinking about the chemistry, age, and point totals last year. They wont be a great scoring team because they will be so defensive but they can get the job done on both sides of the ice.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 16:58:20
|
Let me be the devil's advocate for a second.
I agree with your numbers for Iginla, Langkow, Moss(maybe), Conroy, and Glencross.
Jokinen - 85 points?? Stretch - He has only broken the 80 point platean in 2 of his 10 NHL seasons. He had 57 points all of last year although he did have 15 points in 19 games as a Flames. Even at his Calgary pace, it's 64 points. To increase point production by nearly 30 points?? That's a stretch to say the least. Even playing nightly with Iginla. 85 is way out. 70 is a maybe. Iginla is not play needing setting up to score and Jokinen is not a set up type guy. They will be competing a little for points. Unless Sutter goes to Jokinen on the 2nd line, 70 is the most I would expect out of Jokinen.
Bourque - 65 Points?? Stretch - 40 points in 58 games in 08/09. Even at that pace if he was healthy for 82 games that's 56 points and that was his career year. Rarely does a player continue to have career season after career season. 50 points is reasonable, 65 is a strech.
The other forwards is a maybe. But still, where are the 44 points from Bertuzzi and the 82 points from Cammalleri coming from?? Any void of 126 points between 2 players does not get swallowed up easily. Definately not as easily as you are making it. I don't think a team in recent memory has lost a PPG player and remained the same offensively. Maybe my memory is bad, but I can't think of any.
And Defensive-wise - It really depends on the minutes and pairings. Using a reasonably close comparison in either Niedermayer/Pronger or Lidstrom/Rafalski it is not far fetched to see both Phaneuf and Bouwmeester to have 50 points. If they are both playing 1st line PP time and one or the other is not spending a lot of time in defensive PK type situations, it's not unreasonable.
Regardless, there is some wishful thinking in those numbers. As much as we all wish it would happen, it's rare where most the players on a team increase production over the previous year and everyone stays healthy. I still say that Calgary is betting heavily on about 4 guys to carry the scoring load. Now, I am not saying it won't work, but another offensive players would solidify that team and give them some insurance.
Tanguay's available???? (Kidding)
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Edmonton out of Goalie 
