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 Tanguay/Koivu/Kovalev Vs. Cammaleri/Gomez/Gionta Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  06:43:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Last year our best three forwards were Tanguay, Koivu and Kovalev and this year, they have all been replaced by Cammaleri,Gomez and Gionta. Are the HABS better off? Or did they make a big mistake? Which line would you take?

Choices:

Tanguay/Kovalev/Koivu
Cammalleri/Gomez/Gionta

(Anonymous Vote)

brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  06:49:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd think the new line, a big part of it being we have a good young goal-scorer for the first time in a little while.Gomez is younger and probably is better than Koivu at this point. Cammalleri is definitely better than Tanguay if he gets to play with a good passer like Gomez...the guy is a shooting machine and can definitely score.....He is super clutch but somehow he shut down in the playoff though.

brentrock2

Edited by - brentrock2 on 07/03/2009 06:50:34
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  07:03:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These are nice pickups but the Canadians will need to add some size for them to have a chance

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  07:33:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is a very tough question, because we haven't seen even one pre-season shift with the new "big three", and quite likely they won't all play on the same line. Who knows how the new team will gel?

My prediction is that they won't do as well as the old guys. They will get banged around a bit, and at least one of them I predict will be out at least half the season with an injury. Let's face it . . . looking at their division, they play the very tough and hard-hitting Bruins, the Leafs just got a whole lot tougher, and Ottawa and Buffalo aren't what I would call soft teams . . .

. . . but a soft team IS what I would call Montreal right now. Lots of skill, yes; but a bit softer than last year (with the loss of Komisarek and the gritty Koivu) and that's not good.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
546 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  07:46:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

This is a very tough question, because we haven't seen even one pre-season shift with the new "big three", and quite likely they won't all play on the same line. Who knows how the new team will gel?

My prediction is that they won't do as well as the old guys. They will get banged around a bit, and at least one of them I predict will be out at least half the season with an injury. Let's face it . . . looking at their division, they play the very tough and hard-hitting Bruins, the Leafs just got a whole lot tougher, and Ottawa and Buffalo aren't what I would call soft teams . . .

. . . but a soft team IS what I would call Montreal right now. Lots of skill, yes; but a bit softer than last year (with the loss of Komisarek and the gritty Koivu) and that's not good.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



Nice comments Slozo. I agree, the Habs have no size, they'll be roughed around by the Northeast, take the playoff series with Boston for example. Now that they're best hitter is a Leaf, and they've become even smaller with Gionta, Gomez and Cammelleri, should be interesting. Hopefully they can keep their head when going North-south, also, all three have a tendency to hold onto the puck a bit too long, very inviting for a big hitter :) lol

"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
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Thrasher17
Top Prospect



Canada
84 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  08:09:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a trio, I think the new three are going to make the Habs better off this year. Are they overpaid? Yes and that may hurt the team overall with less money to spend on the rest of the roster. If the money doesn't become a factor, the Habs will be better off.
For the size argument, I don't know if that will be too much of a factor. It might be, but these guys have all been successful in recent years in the "new" NHL and I don't see any reason for that to change.
Size isn't everything. Kovalev is 6'1" yet any hit would render him completely useless for the rest of the game. You could almost see his removal from games coming last year.
The new three may lack size, but I think they will be tougher than Kovalev, Koivu and Tanguay.

Edited by - Thrasher17 on 07/03/2009 08:11:35
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  08:46:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I could do a head to head comparsion, I would say that Cammalleri and Tangauy are a wash. Many in Calgary would not agree, but both are legitimate PPG players. Cammallari is a better goal scorer but Tanguay is a better passer. It's a wash. I would give Gomez a leg up on Koivu. And I would call Kovalev a leg up on Gionta.

Really, I don't think they got better, they got different. I didn't see a pure goal scorer with the old guard, while the new guard, all three guys are better goal scorers but not as good set up guys.

And as Slozo said, can this smaller line up grind out 82 games healthy. Even though the old 1st line (Tanguay 6'1"-189 lb, Koivu 5'10"-187 lb, Kovalev 6'1"-224 lb) was not the biggest in the league, it's gigantic compared to the new 1st line (Gionta 5'7"-175 lbs, Cammalleri 5'9"-185lb, Gomez 5'11"-200 lbs).


It's not better and no worst. Smaller, but faster. And significantly more expensive.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  09:17:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

If I could do a head to head comparsion, I would say that Cammalleri and Tangauy are a wash. Many in Calgary would not agree, but both are legitimate PPG players. Cammallari is a better goal scorer but Tanguay is a better passer. It's a wash. I would give Gomez a leg up on Koivu. And I would call Kovalev a leg up on Gionta.

Really, I don't think they got better, they got different. I didn't see a pure goal scorer with the old guard, while the new guard, all three guys are better goal scorers but not as good set up guys.

And as Slozo said, can this smaller line up grind out 82 games healthy. Even though the old 1st line (Tanguay 6'1"-189 lb, Koivu 5'10"-187 lb, Kovalev 6'1"-224 lb) was not the biggest in the league, it's gigantic compared to the new 1st line (Gionta 5'7"-175 lbs, Cammalleri 5'9"-185lb, Gomez 5'11"-200 lbs).


It's not better and no worst. Smaller, but faster. And significantly more expensive.



Gomez has only missed 30 games in the last 9 year or something like that according to the team 990 and Cammy played 81 of 82 in a pretty hard hitt division last year aswell injuries don't concern me it is more getting to the net and having a precense there,,, if pacirotty is ready for maybe a first line presence he could brng some size he's a big boy and loves to throw his weight around plus gomez may be small but he is tougher than koivu tanguay and kovalev all put together, if all these guys score 15 points less than they did last year they're all still an upgarde

Pasty
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
437 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  09:55:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I gotta go with the old line. This new line is gonna get roughed up, they got no size.I think you have to split them up to get anything done. Maybe move Cammy off to the second and move Andrei Kostitsyn up to give it some size and then you would have two stronger lines. Maybe the other Kostitsyn, Cammy, and Plekanec on the second line. But if the three smaller guys play together see a huge hit in plus minus, they will be outshined physically.

Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually.
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Guest2622
( )

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  10:03:36  Reply with Quote
To start, that Koivu,Tanguay, Kovavlev line wasn't really a line. They didn't play much together until towards the end of the season.

But you want to talk injuries? Koivu, and I have nothing but respect for him, but he was constantly injured, as well tanguay missed a pile of time last year. Plus while he wasn't significantly injured last year, the time Kovalev spends floating and disinterested may as well equate to the same thing, being injured. So I don't think it would take too much for the new players to improve on that.
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
350 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  10:04:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To start, that Koivu,Tanguay, Kovavlev line wasn't really a line. They didn't play much together until towards the end of the season.

But you want to talk injuries? Koivu, and I have nothing but respect for him, but he was constantly injured, as well tanguay missed a pile of time last year. Plus while he wasn't significantly injured last year, the time Kovalev spends floating and disinterested may as well equate to the same thing, being injured. So I don't think it would take too much for the new players to improve on that.
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  10:07:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tanguay, we never really got to see fully. We only saw glimpses at what could have been before he fell to injury. Camalleri is a better player at this point, no question.

Koivu, plain and simple not a 1st line center and I would say that Gomez is better. Every game last year Gomez made a rag doll of Koivu and for that I hated him.(Koivu must be bitter about this signing) The last memory I have of Koivu is skating half speed for that puck in the last few minutes of game 4 in the playoffs. Tired or not, your season was on the line.

Kovalev, the most skilled player in the NHL, but questionable work ethic. I would love to see him back, but most likely will not happen. Even though some nights he doesn't show up, only thing that goes through my mind is playing against this guy. I just wouldn't want to be the team he shows up to play against. Gionta, smaller, less skilled but better defensively and still has the same points upside as Kovalev on most years.
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
437 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  10:25:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Axey

Tanguay, we never really got to see fully. We only saw glimpses at what could have been before he fell to injury. Camalleri is a better player at this point, no question.

Koivu, plain and simple not a 1st line center and I would say that Gomez is better. Every game last year Gomez made a rag doll of Koivu and for that I hated him.(Koivu must be bitter about this signing) The last memory I have of Koivu is skating half speed for that puck in the last few minutes of game 4 in the playoffs. Tired or not, your season was on the line.

Kovalev, the most skilled player in the NHL, but questionable work ethic. I would love to see him back, but most likely will not happen. Even though some nights he doesn't show up, only thing that goes through my mind is playing against this guy. I just wouldn't want to be the team he shows up to play against. Gionta, smaller, less skilled but better defensively and still has the same points upside as Kovalev on most years.



Typical Habs fan, once they are gone they were terrible and were what was wrong with the team. The new guys coming in are the guys you thought were Sh*t last year but now that their a canadien they are going to propel this team to the conference finals. The old line was better! They just got injured. Your new line.... They are too small. They will not get anything done against big and gritty forwards or pretty much any alright sized defensemen. Of all teams I can see the Leafs beating you guys. You cant have three tiny guys playing together, they just wont succeed. Look for these guys to all be huge minuses next year. Overpaid and non-functional first line.

Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually.
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  10:54:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hockster

quote:
Originally posted by Axey

Tanguay, we never really got to see fully. We only saw glimpses at what could have been before he fell to injury. Camalleri is a better player at this point, no question.

Koivu, plain and simple not a 1st line center and I would say that Gomez is better. Every game last year Gomez made a rag doll of Koivu and for that I hated him.(Koivu must be bitter about this signing) The last memory I have of Koivu is skating half speed for that puck in the last few minutes of game 4 in the playoffs. Tired or not, your season was on the line.

Kovalev, the most skilled player in the NHL, but questionable work ethic. I would love to see him back, but most likely will not happen. Even though some nights he doesn't show up, only thing that goes through my mind is playing against this guy. I just wouldn't want to be the team he shows up to play against. Gionta, smaller, less skilled but better defensively and still has the same points upside as Kovalev on most years.



Typical Habs fan, once they are gone they were terrible and were what was wrong with the team. The new guys coming in are the guys you thought were Sh*t last year but now that their a canadien they are going to propel this team to the conference finals. The old line was better! They just got injured. Your new line.... They are too small. They will not get anything done against big and gritty forwards or pretty much any alright sized defensemen. Of all teams I can see the Leafs beating you guys. You cant have three tiny guys playing together, they just wont succeed. Look for these guys to all be huge minuses next year. Overpaid and non-functional first line.

Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually.



Obviously you should read my past posts before you speak. I said the whole time Koivu should be gone. Everything I said above was said before. It is isn`t even bashing them at all. It`s being honest, over paid maybe? Still better then doing nothing. Also, seeing how we are putting words in people's mouths today, where did I ever once say Gomez, Gionta and/or Camalleri were s***? If you can find me these things, I'll be more then glad to admit to it, until then I shall keep up with my 'typical Habs fan talk'!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  12:37:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mark my words, Habs fans: if you don't have Koivu back with you next season (and in all likelihood he won't be, haven't checked if he's been signed by anyone yet), you are done. Funny enough, I heard just as many Habs fans malign him as Kovalev . . . says something about those fans, I think.

Koivu was as heart and soul a guy as you are EVER gonna get, he was the Wendel Clark of Montreal. At the very least, for his leadership, experience and steadying influence, and obviously in a more diminished role for scoring (although he can still play), you should have signed him . . . in fact, you should have been begging management to give him the respect that he so deserved!

Who replaces the leadership of Koivu? That is the big unanswered question coming from the switch of the three main offensive players . . . 'cause it isn't coming from Gionta, Cammalleri or Gomez, my friends.

I will state here that I think it was only because of Koivu that the Canadiens didn't totally tank it near the end of the season and miss the playoffs. They will desperately miss that leadership, because it's obvious to everyone not wearing rose coloured glasses that there were some serious problems in the Habs dressing room last year.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  12:50:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The latest rumor I heard was Koivu heading to Minny to play with little Bro. That's sounds about right to me as well.

Gomez is a leadership/character kind of guy. But I agree, you don't replace the leadership of a Koivu. He's a rare player in any sport. Dedication to the max.

But I think Montreal will not be impacted by Koivu leaving as much as they will get manhandled. They have some beef in the back end, but they are gearing their team to be fast in a physically strong division.

Personally, the Habs are my #2 team behind the Oilers, but I can see Saturday nights a whole lot more interesting than before. Reason being, most of the games are Toronto/Montreal and the Leafs are going to physically dominate that team in Montreal.
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  12:51:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tanguay, we never really got to see fully. We only saw glimpses at what could have been before he fell to injury. Camalleri is a better player at this point, no question.

Koivu, plain and simple not a 1st line center and I would say that Gomez is better. Every game last year Gomez made a rag doll of Koivu and for that I hated him.(Koivu must be bitter about this signing) The last memory I have of Koivu is skating half speed for that puck in the last few minutes of game 4 in the playoffs. Tired or not, your season was on the line.

Kovalev, the most skilled player in the NHL, but questionable work ethic. I would love to see him back, but most likely will not happen. Even though some nights he doesn't show up, only thing that goes through my mind is playing against this guy. I just wouldn't want to be the team he shows up to play against. Gionta, smaller, less skilled but better defensively and still has the same points upside as Kovalev on most years.

I got to agree with Axey about these players, anyways it is tough to pick what line was better.

brentrock2
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Thrasher17
Top Prospect



Canada
84 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2009 :  14:30:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Koivu will definately be missed. And personally, I think the reason he is not being made an offer has to do, for the most part, with the french media.
I mean, Koivu has come out and said its not about the money for him and he just wants to stay in Montreal. Hes done so much for the team and the city that I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want him to continue to reside here and be captain. For the last few years the french media has really been on his back for not speaking french (moreso than I can remember previously). But now there is also the fact that should he be the captain of the Habs for the upcoming season, he would pass Jean Beliveau for the longest serving captain of the Canadiens. You can imagine how that would sit with the french...
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2009 :  14:15:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasher17

Koivu will definately be missed. And personally, I think the reason he is not being made an offer has to do, for the most part, with the french media.
I mean, Koivu has come out and said its not about the money for him and he just wants to stay in Montreal. Hes done so much for the team and the city that I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want him to continue to reside here and be captain. For the last few years the french media has really been on his back for not speaking french (moreso than I can remember previously). But now there is also the fact that should he be the captain of the Habs for the upcoming season, he would pass Jean Beliveau for the longest serving captain of the Canadiens. You can imagine how that would sit with the french...



Now, I agree what you say Thrasher.
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
399 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 :  08:57:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked There orginal lineup because Theres no outstanding player for there new lineup only Cammelari is the the only one.But on the other hand.You got Kovalev,Koivu,and Tanguay,ALL GOAL SCORERS.But they didnt make a mistake,i just think there orginal lineup is better.




PhillyFan12
Philly Rules!!!
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 :  10:36:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Habs are in trouble next year. Carey Price better stand on his head or im going to be laughing all season long.

Cammalerri will look good in Montreal I think, but trading for Gomez is going to sting for years to come.

The part I find strange is that the habs stuck to their old ways and signed small skilled forwards, yet they have the most boring defensive coach in Martin. I know Gomez and Gionta have excelled in NJ under a defence first system, but this is going to be a system shock in Montreal and Ill be surprised if the habs are suddenly able to "shut it down" the way Nj or NY did.

Is Mike Cammalerri gonna trap now? if so, he becomes strictly a PP guy. Gomez went H2H with the best in the east the last couple years and he was a 65 point guy and the rangers were average at best...

Gonna be an interesting year in Montreal. I just hope Tom Kostopolous puts a stop sign on his back when he comes to Toronto this time around. Although I dont think it will do him much good.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Guest2382
( )

Posted - 09/24/2009 :  14:01:04  Reply with Quote
I think the new line is better by a bit even tho they are small, I still think they should do pretty good.

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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  09:41:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did Cammalerri get hurt against the pens the other night?

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
350 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  11:21:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off, these guys probably won't be playing together, as it looks like Latendresse will be on the first line to provide some size.

Second they have beefed up their back end so have plenty of size. Is there really people out there saying Gomez has no heart or leadership? Watching him kill a penalty last night almonst single handedly was amusing.

The new 3 players, head and shoulders is better than the old line. And I have said, I have nothing but respect for Koivu, but he does get hurt alot. I knew Tanguay wasn't coming back when we traded for him last year, so to my mind, he really doesn't even enter the equation, and Kovalev and his well documented inconsistency isn't going to affect the Habs this year. None of the new players have that issue that I am aware of.

Yes we may be a little smaller on the front end but it isn't as if Koivu and Kovalev, and certainly not Tanguay were giant killers. We got bigger on the back end, and that WILL help no matter how those that choose to comment on this board try to spin it with their wishful thinking. Plus the fact that we will be able to toss one of the better checking lines in the league over the boards.
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2009 :  12:41:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85

Did Cammalerri get hurt against the pens the other night?

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".



I dont think so but if he did grrrrr.

HABS RULE!!
brentrock2
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