| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Guest4948
( )
|
 Posted - 09/03/2009 : 13:53:51
|
Poll Question:
Okay, i apologize in advance for bringing his name up but i'm curious what others think and / or have heard. I read through the Sundin Comedy thread and was pretty horrified at some of the posts but decided to take a chance and ask the following.
Mike Gillis has apparently not given up on Sundin. He feels there's a way to get him onto his team even though they're already over the cap. Of course, it's always a possibility with trades, salary dumps, demotions, etc but will he do it? Secondly, Gillis has stated he wants him from day 1 and not part way through the season. I believe "day 1" includes camp which starts soon. If he doesn't sign here in Vancouver, is there interest elsewhere, obviously at a significantly lower salary than he managed last season!
So....
Will Sundin play this season (at ANY point)?
|
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 13:55:08
|
Sorry, that post/poll was me.....thought i'd signed in.  |
 |
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 15:10:53
|
Sundin showed last year once he knocked off the 1/2 season worth of rust that he is still a very effective #2 centre in the NHL. He can still product #2 line numbers and play a big role in the PP. And, I would think he's great in the dressing room as well.
I would resign him to. Short term, and definately not anywhere near the dollars he got last year. I am thinking 1 year, $2 million.
However, that money might not be enough. Sundin may go back and play with Modo(where Forsberg is playing) and get ready for the Olympics that way. He will play and Captain the Swedes, finish this season and then hang them up. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 09/03/2009 15:11:18 |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 15:17:07
|
It looks like you have to sign in every post as the last few post have had me add my member info to comments. As for Sundin, under a guest # i've suggested on another post that the Islanders could really use this guy to groom JT. Would he accept that role and would he play for a team (again) without playoff projections. This is the team that could use him the most and he would be one the top line with 2 good/great players in Weight and JT.
I doubt this former superstar would be willing to sacrifice to become a mentor to a possible the next one. Sure know Islanders could afford his salary. Outside of this team not many options for him to be an impact player, more like a depth player at this point in his career. |
|
|
|
just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 15:26:31
|
I thought he said he wasn't going to play in the Olympics already. Of course, he may change his mind 
If he's affordable, I wouldn't mind seeing him back in a Canucks sweater. I recall he was money in the faceoff circle at least... |
|
|
|
Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 19:23:18
|
| What about Detroit? Do they have the cap space? |
|
|
|
redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 19:44:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
It looks like you have to sign in every post as the last few post have had me add my member info to comments. As for Sundin, under a guest # i've suggested on another post that the Islanders could really use this guy to groom JT. Would he accept that role and would he play for a team (again) without playoff projections. This is the team that could use him the most and he would be one the top line with 2 good/great players in Weight and JT.
I doubt this former superstar would be willing to sacrifice to become a mentor to a possible the next one. Sure know Islanders could afford his salary. Outside of this team not many options for him to be an impact player, more like a depth player at this point in his career.
Sundin won't go to the Isle. IF he plays, it will be with a team that has a chance to win the Cup. There has been some talk that he may go to LA which makes absolutely no sense to me. Why go to a team that is only close to having a chance of playing in the post season? I think that he signs a modest contract and ends up in Vancouver. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 21:03:24
|
First, Sundin publicly stated he will never again play for team Sweden. I really think this is a classy move that somewhat wipes away the bad ending in Toronto . . . he has so much pride and things to certainly be proud of, he doesn't want to diminish it with a tawdry ending, and certainly, wants to give others a chance to take the helm there. Finally, a classy move after quite a few crap ones.
Gillis is doing the right thing this time - make it clear you start now, not like last year, which was totally unacceptable and a low-grade soap opera. Sundin is still an effective, scoring, two-way center that is a solid second liner, I agree with Beans for once. Skills diminished obviously, but he is a good fit with some of the young guys on Vancouver.
Heck, Redneck, you are starting to make me think that Vancouver can make some noise this year . . . but tell me: What has really changed between now and three months ago when Chicago overwhelmed them? How would they deal with a solid defensive team that could also roll over three scoring lines in Anaheim and Detroit and San Jose? And how does Gillis know Luongo can get over last year's blowout losses and bounce back mentally strong this year?
Burke wins again. (sorry, came into my head, I laughed out loud, and had to write it)
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 21:58:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
First, Sundin publicly stated he will never again play for team Sweden. I really think this is a classy move that somewhat wipes away the bad ending in Toronto . . . he has so much pride and things to certainly be proud of, he doesn't want to diminish it with a tawdry ending, and certainly, wants to give others a chance to take the helm there. Finally, a classy move after quite a few crap ones.
Gillis is doing the right thing this time - make it clear you start now, not like last year, which was totally unacceptable and a low-grade soap opera. Sundin is still an effective, scoring, two-way center that is a solid second liner, I agree with Beans for once. Skills diminished obviously, but he is a good fit with some of the young guys on Vancouver.
Heck, Redneck, you are starting to make me think that Vancouver can make some noise this year . . . but tell me: What has really changed between now and three months ago when Chicago overwhelmed them? How would they deal with a solid defensive team that could also roll over three scoring lines in Anaheim and Detroit and San Jose? And how does Gillis know Luongo can get over last year's blowout losses and bounce back mentally strong this year?
Burke wins again. (sorry, came into my head, I laughed out loud, and had to write it)
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
They have made improvements on the back end that will solidify their powerplay and the first pass out of the zone. They have made improvements to their 1st line thereby increasing the depth of their other lines. Gillis, like Lou in NJ with Brodeur, knows that Luongo is a fierce competitor, mentally strong and a top flight goalie and that he WILL bounce back. He is a top 3 goalie in the league right now, and is mentally strong. Don't you think that Roy or Broduer ever had bad games? They bounced back, and Luongo is the same type of character. Anyone who questions Luongo's ability, character, mental toughness and competitiveness has not had the pleasure of truly being able to watch him as a professional. Luckily for me, he will be a Canuck for life and I will get to enjoy his career as a fan.
San Jose is not the team they used to be and are sure to fall flat on their face when they hit the payoffs again, so don't even bother using them in the arguement. Detroit and Chicago? Fair enough. They will pose a problem but you have to remember that Chicago has to move some talent to get under the cap and that they will be starting Huet who didn't play alot last year. A lot of what the Hawks did last year was due to Khabibulin's great season. Chicago will be a year older but which player is leaving? Sharp? Campbell? Barker? They will miss out on Hossa's services until December, too. Detroit? They'll be good again. No doubt. But does the addition of Bertuzzi, Williams and Eaves really offset the losses of Samuelsson, Hudler,and Hossa? Seriously? Its not like Detroit needed to get any better in the offseason but don't you think that they stepped back a little?
Anaheim could be sick this year. A full year of Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry should be impressive, but the aging second line of Koivu, Selanne and Lupul (not that he is old) cannot be expected to put up big numbers. Their defense isn't as solid as last year either.
Without Sundin, the Canucks will contend for the division against Calgary, and will finish between the #2 and #5 spots in the conference. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 22:55:20
|
I agree that Vancouver will be in the top 5ish in the West. However, they still don't have the chops to take the West in the playoffs. The Sedins are still playoff flops. Sure, they played good hockey in the first round and the produced against the Hawks, but they were far from dominant. And unfortunately, Luongo has been less than stellar when the game in on the line in the playoffs.
This is where Sundin or a Sundin type is needed. A team has to learn how to win. Vancouver hasn't and I'm not sure they have the tools. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 23:15:54
|
| Beans, i agree with you again? Are the planets aligned or something? Well, i guess i sorta agree. I don't think the Sedin's should be considered playoff flops. Still haven't completely proven themselves, but a flop is a pretty strong word! They, and Roberto, need to take another step this year for sure. This brings me to where i completely agree with you. Sundin would be great for this team and i hope he's back. I'm one of few who wasn't totally disappointed in him last year. This of course doesn't include what they paid him. If they can sign him and fit him in under the cap with some other moves, i think it'd be worth it. Maybe in the 2.5 million range? I mean, they're paying Demitra 4million i think? What do you think is the better deal? |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 00:32:15
|
The Sedins are not playoff flops???
Daniel Sedin has 9 goals, 28 points, and is -4 in 53 playoff games
Henrik Sedin has 14 goals, 30 points, and is -7 is 53 playoff games.
This is not the production a team expects from their top 2 offensive players. This is not the performance of PPG regular season players.
Considering that this past playoffs they each had 10 pts in 10 games, they were complete flops in the playoffs before 08/09. Now they are just normal flops. If the happen to perform well this year, the might make their way up to average.
$6 million a year 1st line players should be getting more than a 1/2 PPG in the playoffs.
And to answer your question, I take Demitra over Sundin today. 5 years ago, I take Sundin. Today, I think Demitra is a better player. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 07:10:31
|
Improvements on the back end in Vancouver?
Gone: Ohlund, Vaananen, Davison, and prospects Rahmi, Fitzgerald.
Incoming: Schneider, Lukowich, Erhoff, O'Brien, and prospects McIver, Funk, and Rome, and journeymen Nycholat and Baumgartner.
Sorry, I really don't see this as an improvement.
Ohlund is somewhat in his prime, while the 40 year old Schneider is no where near he used to be and should provide further diminishing returns. Yes, Ohlund did not have a great year in 2009, but you definitely did not replace him with Schneider, who at this age does not bring as much to the table: size, toughness, very good playmaking ability, a bit of scoring, and solid D. Let's face it, the Nucks would have loved to keep Ohlund, but they just didn't have the cash.
Erhoff is an ok player, a scrappy guy who plays solid D . . . but between him and Lukowich, they are ok for a second or third pairing at best.
I see the Canucks defensively losing their biggest offensive piece, who also happened to be their top shut down guy as well. Bringing in three players who collectively equal that role does not make the team better . . . it makes the team worse.
* * * * *
Beans:
So . . . if the Sedins are still flopping at a point a game pace for the last playoffs, exactly what they did in the regular season . . . I guess Sundin is a flop too with 3 goals and 5 assists in 8 games, and Demitra is better than him with 1 goal, 2 assists in 6 games? Not to mention that Sundin is a very good forechecker and solid physical presence, whereas Demitra still hasn't learned to back check.
You really, really lost me on this one.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 07:33:18
|
Amazing how the conversation went to the twins and Luongo.
|
|
|
|
admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 10:38:05
|
Hi Alex116, from time to time we'd like to use some of your polls for the feature on the home page but unfortunately their too long most of the time  If you're interested can you check out the poll guidelines.
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3485
Thanks for the contributions! |
|
|
|
Guest3341
( )
|
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 11:34:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Improvements on the back end in Vancouver?
Gone: Ohlund, Vaananen, Davison, and prospects Rahmi, Fitzgerald.
Incoming: Schneider, Lukowich, Erhoff, O'Brien, and prospects McIver, Funk, and Rome, and journeymen Nycholat and Baumgartner.
Sorry, I really don't see this as an improvement.
Ohlund is somewhat in his prime, while the 40 year old Schneider is no where near he used to be and should provide further diminishing returns. Yes, Ohlund did not have a great year in 2009, but you definitely did not replace him with Schneider, who at this age does not bring as much to the table: size, toughness, very good playmaking ability, a bit of scoring, and solid D. Let's face it, the Nucks would have loved to keep Ohlund, but they just didn't have the cash.
Erhoff is an ok player, a scrappy guy who plays solid D . . . but between him and Lukowich, they are ok for a second or third pairing at best.
I see the Canucks defensively losing their biggest offensive piece, who also happened to be their top shut down guy as well. Bringing in three players who collectively equal that role does not make the team better . . . it makes the team worse.
* * * * *
Beans:
So . . . if the Sedins are still flopping at a point a game pace for the last playoffs, exactly what they did in the regular season . . . I guess Sundin is a flop too with 3 goals and 5 assists in 8 games, and Demitra is better than him with 1 goal, 2 assists in 6 games? Not to mention that Sundin is a very good forechecker and solid physical presence, whereas Demitra still hasn't learned to back check.
You really, really lost me on this one.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo is quite correct. Demitra is no Sundin. 80/09 proved the Sedins are ready for the playoffs. Loungo looked strong in the 1st round and Chicago played like Phenoms in the 2nd and Bobbi lou only had one bad game.
I dont see Sundin coming back for a full season though. It strikes me that he wont get as much as he could if he signed elsewhere. I think it has become a money game now. Plus I dont buy that Vancouver is a serious contender. They will definitly make the playoffs but I see stronger contenders in the west, let alone the east. I say a 2nd exit if they finish in the top 5 in the west. |
|
|
|
redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 12:36:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Improvements on the back end in Vancouver?
Gone: Ohlund, Vaananen, Davison, and prospects Rahmi, Fitzgerald.
Incoming: Schneider, Lukowich, Erhoff, O'Brien, and prospects McIver, Funk, and Rome, and journeymen Nycholat and Baumgartner.
Sorry, I really don't see this as an improvement.
Ohlund is somewhat in his prime, while the 40 year old Schneider is no where near he used to be and should provide further diminishing returns. Yes, Ohlund did not have a great year in 2009, but you definitely did not replace him with Schneider, who at this age does not bring as much to the table: size, toughness, very good playmaking ability, a bit of scoring, and solid D. Let's face it, the Nucks would have loved to keep Ohlund, but they just didn't have the cash.
Erhoff is an ok player, a scrappy guy who plays solid D . . . but between him and Lukowich, they are ok for a second or third pairing at best.
I see the Canucks defensively losing their biggest offensive piece, who also happened to be their top shut down guy as well. Bringing in three players who collectively equal that role does not make the team better . . . it makes the team worse.
* * * * *
Beans:
So . . . if the Sedins are still flopping at a point a game pace for the last playoffs, exactly what they did in the regular season . . . I guess Sundin is a flop too with 3 goals and 5 assists in 8 games, and Demitra is better than him with 1 goal, 2 assists in 6 games? Not to mention that Sundin is a very good forechecker and solid physical presence, whereas Demitra still hasn't learned to back check.
You really, really lost me on this one.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
First of all O'Brien, Baumgartner and Nycholat were all with the team last year, they are not new to the team. Second, Vaanen only played a handful of games and is by no means an impact player. Davison was only there to toss knuckles and he is no loss considering they retained O'Brien. As far as the prospects you mentioned they are not even on the radar as far as prospects are concerned.
Losing Ohlund hurts, but here is a guy whose production had been waning with the Club. He will be missed as a solid 2 way dman. The additions of Schneider and Erhoff improve their goal scoring ability from the back end and will do wonders for the PP. I can't help but believe that the Vancouver blueline is better than last year. More mobile, better puck movement and they now have a bonafide PP QB. As far as Ohlund being their top shutdown guy, that's not true, Mitchell has that role. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 13:31:34
|
Hunh. I took the players coming in/out list from the Vancouver Canucks website for those d-men, I must have misread something.
I never said Vaananen was an impact player . . . but he was a solid fill-in.
Davison was there only to fight, yes . . . so they lost toughness, as he was not replaced. Yes, Vancouver has O-Brien, but we are talking about about what Vancouver has gained/lost, no? So, they lost a fighter.
Portraying Ohlund only as a solid two-way d-man is disingenuous. He was much more than that. He is still good for about 30 points, more than that I predict right here because he will be on the top defensive pairing for TB. No one guy they picked up replace everything Ohlund brought to the table.
And to get back to the topic at hand - Demitra definitely does not take the place of Sundin on the second line. We have seen Sundin play with nobodies and he always has the skill to be dangerous and still put up some points . . . haven't seen that with Demitra, who is only good with other skilled players. Demitra sucked last year in the beginning if I remember correctly, even playing with the twins at times.
No, I think Gillis did the right thing by giving Sundin an ultimatum of sorts, and I think Sundin will play for the Canucks, his last year, to give it one more go for the cup.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 15:48:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by admin
Hi Alex116, from time to time we'd like to use some of your polls for the feature on the home page but unfortunately their too long most of the time If you're interested can you check out the poll guidelines.
http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3485
Thanks for the contributions!
My apologies. I haven't even clicked the link yet (i will) but i'm guessing it says to make the poll, THEN in another post add my comments? Regardless, i'll have a read and make appropriate changes.... |
|
|
|
redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 15:57:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Hunh. I took the players coming in/out list from the Vancouver Canucks website for those d-men, I must have misread something.
I never said Vaananen was an impact player . . . but he was a solid fill-in.
Davison was there only to fight, yes . . . so they lost toughness, as he was not replaced. Yes, Vancouver has O-Brien, but we are talking about about what Vancouver has gained/lost, no? So, they lost a fighter.
Portraying Ohlund only as a solid two-way d-man is disingenuous. He was much more than that. He is still good for about 30 points, more than that I predict right here because he will be on the top defensive pairing for TB. No one guy they picked up replace everything Ohlund brought to the table.
And to get back to the topic at hand - Demitra definitely does not take the place of Sundin on the second line. We have seen Sundin play with nobodies and he always has the skill to be dangerous and still put up some points . . . haven't seen that with Demitra, who is only good with other skilled players. Demitra sucked last year in the beginning if I remember correctly, even playing with the twins at times.
No, I think Gillis did the right thing by giving Sundin an ultimatum of sorts, and I think Sundin will play for the Canucks, his last year, to give it one more go for the cup.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Considering that Vaananen (3) and Davison (23) only played a total of 26 games between the two of them its hard to even consider them in this discussion. What this all comes down to is: does bringing in Erhoff, Lukowich and Schneider make the 'Nucks d-corp better considering the loss of Ohlund? I'd say that they are deeper at D than they were last year.
I'd like to point out that Ohlund was on the top line for the Canucks as well, so how does him being on the top pairing in TB mean he will do any better? Moreover, his offensive side will be stifled by the fact that he will be their top shut down guy and therefore will be playing big minutes 5 on 5 and on the PK which could hurt his point production. It probably won't but now with TB he is THE MAN whereas with the Canucks he wasn't as he had a good D-corp around him.
Last year:
Ohlund GP:82 G:6 A:19 P:25
So what you are saying is that he will do better in Tampa on a team with worse defense than the Nucks and less of a supporting cast on the D end? I don't see it. I love Ohlund but at age 33 he has lost a step and will be required to play more defensely than he did with the Nucks where Edler and Mitchell were able free him up for #1 PP time.
If I had a choice to keep or lose him, I'd keep him. But they couldn't and the additions of the two former Sharks and the addition of Schneider does make the D-corp deeper than last year with more offensive upside.
|
|
|
|
redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 16:00:40
|
| The topic at hand is what will Sundin do? Nothing to do with Demitra. I never once mentioned his name. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 17:24:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The Sedins are not playoff flops???
Daniel Sedin has 9 goals, 28 points, and is -4 in 53 playoff games
Henrik Sedin has 14 goals, 30 points, and is -7 is 53 playoff games.
This is not the production a team expects from their top 2 offensive players. This is not the performance of PPG regular season players.
Considering that this past playoffs they each had 10 pts in 10 games, they were complete flops in the playoffs before 08/09. Now they are just normal flops. If the happen to perform well this year, the might make their way up to average.
$6 million a year 1st line players should be getting more than a 1/2 PPG in the playoffs.
And to answer your question, I take Demitra over Sundin today. 5 years ago, I take Sundin. Today, I think Demitra is a better player.
Beans, there's a reason i said in my post that the twins "Still haven't completely proven themselves" From what you said, a top line guy should be at or close to a ppg guy in the playoffs? I would agree (if this isn't what you're saying, forgive me, but that's how i interpret it). Here's the thing though, as "$6 million a year 1st line players", they've yet to have a chance to prove themselves. Don't get me wrong, i know where you're going with this but realisticly, these guys only became the go to line once Nazzy was gone or maybe in his last season as a Canuck.
Their first 4 years in the playoffs, they weren't far off what they'd done in the regular season. Look at their stats if you wanna see what i mean. The big problem with them was that they were very slow to develop as players. Since they became the go to line, they've only been in the playoffs twice. They struggled in a big way three years ago (last time they were in the playoffs) and then put up a ppg pace this past time around? Yeah, there were rumours they were both extremely sick (excuses?) in the 07 playoffs, but regardless, they didn't perform. So, really they had one pretty poor playoff, sick or not, and one pretty good one? If you wanna consider what they did in their first 4 years as playoff players, then you really should consider what was expected of them? If anyone expected them to do better in the playoffs than the regular season, well, that's not very realistic.
Overall, yes, i agree they still have to prove themselves for more than just two series. However, flops imo, still seems a little strong. If nothing else, i'd consider them flops for not leading their team to at least the conference finals but again, keep in mind how long they've been "THE GUYS" here. Look at Datsyuk or Lecavalier's stats for the playoffs. The differences are that they've both won a cup (Datsyuk 2) but they've also been the prime time guys on their teams for a lot longer than the Sedins. Really if you look at Vinny's numbers, they're not too impressive. Take away his one cup (where he wasn't even the big man on campus thanks to Brad Richards' year) and he hasn't really done a whole lot. Flop
|
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2009 : 22:35:18
|
Redneck - my Demitra/Sundin comment was directed at Beans, who made some kind of statement akin to "I'd take Demitra over Sundin right now".
And a point a game in the regular season almost always does not, in fact, translate to a point a game in the playoffs . . . in fact, almost never. Look at all the players who are a point a game average, and look up their playoff stats . . . you will see what I am talking about. The Claude Lemieuxs of the world are few and very far between, boys.
The Sedins performed very well the last playoffs, I'd say. Everyone knows it's the rare superstar indeed that can control a game in the playoffs . . . Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Getzlaf come to mind for last year's amazing playoffs. I don't expect Daniel or Henrik Sedin to perform at that level - I think I expect them to perform more at a Kane/Toews/Hossa level . . . which is right about where they were at.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 18:02:11
|
I agree that the Sedins played well in last years playoffs. But lets look at the big picture here.
Last year they were PPG players in 10 games.
But they have been in the playoffs for 7 times!! They should be PPG players.
And just 2 years ago, they had less than 5 points each in 12 games. That's less than 2nd line performance. That was playing with Naslund on the PP at least as well.
Think of it this way, if there are 2 players on your favorite teams getting $6 million a season and they had 20 points in 43 games, you would be called them down. Then, if they had 10 points in 10 games, you would not consider them superstars. You would reserve judgement to see how they played in the future.
Same case here. 20 points in 40+ playoff games are flops for 1st line players. Period. Now, they played one decent playoff year and averaged a PPG. So I am reserving judgement. |
|
|
|
redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 18:31:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I agree that the Sedins played well in last years playoffs. But lets look at the big picture here.
Last year they were PPG players in 10 games.
But they have been in the playoffs for 7 times!! They should be PPG players.
And just 2 years ago, they had less than 5 points each in 12 games. That's less than 2nd line performance. That was playing with Naslund on the PP at least as well.
Think of it this way, if there are 2 players on your favorite teams getting $6 million a season and they had 20 points in 43 games, you would be called them down. Then, if they had 10 points in 10 games, you would not consider them superstars. You would reserve judgement to see how they played in the future.
Same case here. 20 points in 40+ playoff games are flops for 1st line players. Period. Now, they played one decent playoff year and averaged a PPG. So I am reserving judgement.
So by your logic then Horcoff and Hemsky are in the same category as the Sedins? |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2009 : 12:58:12
|
One could argue that Hemsky is also somewhat of a playoff flop. He's got 17 points in 30 playoff games which .56 PPG. His regular season production is .79 so he has dropped. However, those 30 games are in 2 playoff seasons, not 7. His last playoff run of 24 games was a PPG of .71. So sure, I can maybe put Hemsky in the same catatory but I'd like to see Hemsky with 5 more playoff seasons behind him or another 15ish play off games and see what his production is compared to the Sedins.
Horcoff, well no I don't put him the same at all. Two reasons. Firstly, Horcoff's playoff production is higher than his regular season production (.60 PPG to .65 PPG in the playoffs). More so, Horcoff is also called upon by his team as the #1 power play, penalty kill, and shut down defensemen. The Sedins play very little if any PK time.
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Sundin to play? 
