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Guest9109
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 Posted - 09/18/2009 : 17:55:29
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so, what the hell.... burke is rebuilding right.....??????? so he trades off a 1st and 2nd round pick for him and signs him for 5.4 mill a year... am i crazy or is that the exact opposite of rebuilding???
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 18:08:58
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ummmmmm, its not like kessel is some old guy way past his prime and wont do anything. hes 21 years old. he hasnt even reached his prime yet! this years draft other than the first three picks is a weak draft, so trust me ur not missing much. also the leafs have some really good rookies, kadri, bozack, gustavsson and stralburg. its not like the leafs are going to do so bad that they're going to get a really high pick in the draft, so i'd rather have kessel than those picks. the leafs lacked some scoring, well now u got a guy who got 60 points in 70 games, he had 36 goals and before he got really sick for a while he was on FIRE! he took a while finding his rhythym back after that, if he didnt get sick he would have easily reached 45+ goals and probably 85 or more points. now u got this guy for the next 5 years guaranteed.
in my mind this is a large step in rebuilding |
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Guest9494
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Posted - 09/18/2009 : 18:21:44
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| lol 5 more reasons I can laugh at the leafs |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 18:46:39
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Hmm. I think this might possibly be the best move Burke has done with the Leafs. This definately makes the team better. Of course, once Kessel's healthy.
My Slozo bet is not quite as safe as it was yesterday, but I'm not sweating yet. Kessel's out until at least November. That should be enough of a head start for Ottawa and Edmonton. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2009 : 19:32:28
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You're crazy, at least a bit. Getting a 21 year old is building from the ground up, yes.
It's a solid signing, but the Bruins got a very decent return . . . I would say it's a fair deal all in all. Like I have said before, Kessel isn't without a bit of risk; he's supposedly soft (I didn't see that in the games last year, but admittedly didn't see him a whole lot), he's coming off an injury, and it's only really going on one great year.
But in the end, getting a player who for one year proved himself as being able to score in the 40 goal range; who is young, was very highly touted, fell in value, and who has now risen back up to previous expectations; and, a player who should have many more years to build on and perhaps even get better - it's a solid deal. The odds are against either of the first rounders being the type of player Kessel was last year, but it's even a bit of a crapshoot with Kessel . . . but it's much, much better odds. And, when all is said and done, I'll take a very young player coming off their 36 goal season playing in 70 games and bank on his future, rather than two first rounders, only one of which might be top 10, and hope that one of them or the second rounder turn out to be equal or better in value in a few years.
We'll see in early November, I guess, but I am very happy. And, I do expect at least one more deal from Burke, as we still have an excess of young defencemen, and I see some deals around Christma time when various teams through injury are looking for extra help.
I am very, very pleased, and feel confident that the Leafs can beat Edmonton and Ottawa. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4095
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Posted - 09/19/2009 : 06:53:45
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My opinion is it is a bad deal and we will see that it is a bad deal in 2016 when the picks burke gave up will be playing. Phil had 60 points any Leaf fans remember Berezin, Stempniak,and a couple of other thousand players that had a good yr and then dissappeared . And remember it is two ist, one second and a third round pick. They re-acquired their own second rd by trading a third round so they could make an offer sheet (or to give the impression they were going to give one).In addtion he has a shoulder injury which isnt a good sign as he is only 22 and already banged up. The deal also depends on where the leafs finish. I also think a player that has one decent year and wants huge deal has attitude problem.
Ps i hope you can understand my post slozo. As I am only a 3yr old illiterate southern hick. Sorry about the grammer thought I was posting on a blog. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - PERSONAL ATTACK)
We are not writing essays we are communicating via the typewritten word if something I have written is difficult to understand I sincerely apologize. But I dont believe personal attacks are the answer. Simply ask me to clarify my point or ignore it. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - PERSONAL ATTACK) I hope you are right about the trade but I still beleive you have to draft to win. Look at any Stanley cup winner and they all have drafted their stars. Happy posting
(ADMIN EDIT - Thanks for the contribution Guest 4095, but I do invite you to read the posting guidelines found here - http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2160 - Thanks!) |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 06:57:34
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I'm glad, it's a good trade. And trading away to first rounder is a lot but when the player you get is 21 years old then it all makes sense. I hope Kessel recovers well from his injury.
Good trade for both sides. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 07:12:35
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The way I look at this deal is the leafs are only giving up 1 first round pick because at 21 yrs of age Kessel is like getting a NHL ready high 1st round pick back.
The leafs are getting a sure thing in Kessel and can always reaquire picks again.
Also next years draft is not considered as high of calibre as the last few so it is more of a crap shoot if the leafs are picking in the 5 to 10 slot again.
Burke admits he gave up a lot, and I agree but the Leafs are far more improved with a 21 yr old proven NHL player then they are with a gamble on a draft pick.
Lets face it the leafs are targeting a fast turnaround, this move makes sense in meeting that goal.
I think the hope is that Bozeck, Stahlburg, Kadri, and several other good young prospects develop as projected, making the Leafs a very good young team for several years, with Kessel being right in the heart of it. |
Edited by - Porkchop73 on 09/19/2009 07:15:08 |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 08:04:00
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guest 4095, u may think that kessel will disapear like all the other guys but kessel is already a proven goal scorer and at the age of 21. as of right now he really wouldnt have anyone to play with so when he comes back from his injury sometime in november, i dont think hes going to be this amazing score a goal every game guy, he'll make an impact but i think the year after this one is when he makes a huge diffrence. i think that the top free agent center next offseason will be heavily pursued by the leafs.
once the leafs get that playmaking center, then the leafs have someone to pass the puck to kessel. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 14:28:39
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This move has the potential to be a great move by the Leafs. However, I am still a little leary about it for basically the same reasons that have already been listed.
1. He's battled through cancer which is ALWAYS a threat to come back!
2. He's only 21 and he is having some shoulder problems....could be fluke, could be signs of things to come.
3. He is NOT a proven goal-scorer. He had one year with 36 goals. And that was playing with one of the league's best playmakers. In Toronto, he won't have Savard feeding him passes which will take a hit on his goal total. Now, I believe the Leaf's will sign a top-line center within a year or so but that still doesn't mean Kessel is a proven goal-scorer. To be proven, you must consistently have solid years. Jason Blake scored 40 goals and then signed a big contract with Toronto. Leafs Nation better hope this isn't what will happen to Kessel.
However, I am still not against this trade for the following reasons.
1. He is only 21. If that 36 goal season is a sign of things to come then the Leafs will be set for at least the next five years!
2. Risk is necessary to build a solid hockey team. Sometimes you need to go out on a limb to try and skate the most competitive team. Burke had to pay a hefty price for Kessel. Don't kid yourself by saying that "next year's draft is weak so it's a crapshoot". 2 first rounders, a second round, and a third round is a big price. However, I admire Burke for having the balls to pull it off.
My gut feeling is that it turns out to be a pretty even trade. I don't think that Kessel will be the "saviour" that some are hyping him up to be. And at the same time, I don't think he will be the next Jason Blake either.
And I know this is not the right place to bring this up but I think the Leaf's took Kadri WAY too high....I'm not at all confident that he will be a top-line player in the NHL. |
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Guest4326
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blade
Rookie
Canada
199 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 15:29:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4326
Kessel appears he could be one of those guys who causes dressing room problems. Not worth 2 firsts and a 2nd in my opinion.
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2006/07/espn-kessels-draft-combine-wasnt.html
Dude! first of all you link is to a very poorly written BLOG, not an article written by someone with any true insight. Second of all it is over 3 years old! Considering Phil's age and experiences in the last 3 years (inlcuding fighting and beating cancer) a lot can change. The kid has talent period! looking at the drafts comeing up and the length of the contract I would say this deal is good for the leafs future. Burke ahs said that they are looking at being true cup contenders in 3 to 4 years. Burke will keep this kid in line. |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 18:06:59
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thorntonistheman, how can u say he is not a proven goal scorer. do u not recall that last year kessel went on a huge goal scoring streak. im too lazy to check the exact amount of games in a row which he scored a goal but it must have been 15-20 games. not just anyone can do that. also as i already mentioned in my previous post, he got sick and missed a number of games which really took a toll on him. if he wouldn't have gotten sick, he would have scored 40+ goals easily.
i dont know the name of the sickness he got but it was a pretty serious one. and for him to come back and still finish the season with 36 goals is pretty impressive. |
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Guest4326
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Posted - 09/19/2009 : 23:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by blade
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4326
Kessel appears he could be one of those guys who causes dressing room problems. Not worth 2 firsts and a 2nd in my opinion.
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/2006/07/espn-kessels-draft-combine-wasnt.html
Dude! first of all you link is to a very poorly written BLOG, not an article written by someone with any true insight. Second of all it is over 3 years old! Considering Phil's age and experiences in the last 3 years (inlcuding fighting and beating cancer) a lot can change. The kid has talent period! looking at the drafts comeing up and the length of the contract I would say this deal is good for the leafs future. Burke ahs said that they are looking at being true cup contenders in 3 to 4 years. Burke will keep this kid in line.
1. The article is originally from ESPN.
2. Allegedly Claude Julien had a falling out with Phil Kessel so I do not believe he has changed. (also I have never heard of an hated player suddenly changing...) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 08:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by sharksfan44
thorntonistheman, how can u say he is not a proven goal scorer. do u not recall that last year kessel went on a huge goal scoring streak. im too lazy to check the exact amount of games in a row which he scored a goal but it must have been 15-20 games. not just anyone can do that. also as i already mentioned in my previous post, he got sick and missed a number of games which really took a toll on him. if he wouldn't have gotten sick, he would have scored 40+ goals easily.
i dont know the name of the sickness he got but it was a pretty serious one. and for him to come back and still finish the season with 36 goals is pretty impressive.
A player does not prove his worth over one season. Sure he's young, and he does have the potential to have a long career filled with tons of goals. But I emphatically agree with anyone who says Kessel is an unproven goal scorer.
Would anyone agree that a trade for Loui Eriksson for 2-1st round and a 2nd round draft pick is a good deal??? If you immediately said no, you might want to do a little homework. Eriksson's and Kessel's production over the past three seasons is the same. Both had 36 goal seasons last year. Kessel has 10 more goals and 13 more points in 10 more career games. The only difference is Eriksson is 3 years older. Oh ya, and Eriksson hasn't been playing with one of the top 3 playmakers in the NHL today.
Don't let potential cloud your judgement. I agree that Kessel has the potential to help TO. But realistically, Kessel's out until at least November and it's shoulder surgery. I can all but promise you will not see 35+ this season. And the jury is still out. Until he can put together a couple more 30+ goal season, he's still a player with potential but unproven. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 11:35:55
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Sharksfan, I think Bean proved my point well. You are not proven after 1 year....You need to show you can do it on a consistent basis.
Also, I found an interesting article writen by a dude from the Windsor star. http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/columnists/story.html?id=0e8cc6fd-af52-4fbd-9c83-bc8015bf0a64
It brought up an intersting point. If the Bruin's thought he was a needed piece to winning the Cup, wouldn't they have done anything that they needed to resign him? Also, with him holding out on the Bruins, a Stanley Cup contender, and signing with the Leaf's, haven't made the playoffs for 3 years, isn't that a little bit scary that it is quite a bit about money?
Just some stuff to think about.... |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 11:38:25
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ok true, maybe he may not be a PROVEN goal scorer but he really impressed me last year. yes i no he played with one of the best set up man in the nhl, but it still takes some skill to score 36 goals in 70 games.
now you do agree with me that iginla is a proven goal scorer right? well iginla had 35 goals in 82 games, 12 more than kessel, yet kessel scored 1 more than iginla. then theres simon gagne, 34 goals in 79 games. he outscored a lot of big names last year. http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?component=completeGoalLeadersList&page=statshome&service=direct
kessel was 13 in the league in goals. also note that kessel played the least amount of games out of all the players in that list.
u can argue that he played with savard. u can say that hes not yet proven as a goal scorer and that one year doesnt prove someone is. i agree with u there (for example cheechoo and his 56 goal year) all im saying is kessel really impressed me last year. maybe i was wrong to call him a proven goal scorer, but i think he should b able (in a full season staying healthy) score 30+ goals in toronto. but then again maybe im wrong  |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 12:33:46
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| also nice link thorntonistheman. the only thing about the bruins not holding on to him was that they were not even close to having enough cap space. they could have tried to make a trade that would have gave them cap space but maybe they werent willing to give up the guys that they would have needed to give up in order to have the cap space to sign kessel. they had i believe around 1.6 mil in cap space and kessel is looking for 4-5 mil a year. so maybe the bruins didnt think he was needed to b on the team in order for them to win or maybe they could simply not afford him. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 13:30:54
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If Kessel scores around 25 goals this season. 30 the next one, and then he has a season or two of 35 goals or maybe 40. And after that he resigns with the Leafs. Then it will be a good trade and Leafs fan will be happy.
But yeah I agree that he's not a proven goal scorer. I was having the same reaction when 50% of the people were saying that Steve Mason deserve the spot on the canadian squad for the Olympics. I was like he only had one good season he's not proven... |
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Guest4095
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Posted - 09/21/2009 : 17:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4095
My opinion is it is a bad deal and we will see that it is a bad deal in 2016 when the picks burke gave up will be playing. Phil had 60 points any Leaf fans remember Berezin, Stempniak,and a couple of other thousand players that had a good yr and then dissappeared . And remember it is two ist, one second and a third round pick. They re-acquired their own second rd by trading a third round so they could make an offer sheet (or to give the impression they were going to give one).In addtion he has a shoulder injury which isnt a good sign as he is only 22 and already banged up. The deal also depends on where the leafs finish. I also think a player that has one decent year and wants huge deal has attitude problem.
Ps i hope you can understand my post slozo. As I am only a 3yr old illiterate southern hick. Sorry about the grammer thought I was posting on a blog. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - PERSONAL ATTACK)
We are not writing essays we are communicating via the typewritten word if something I have written is difficult to understand I sincerely apologize. But I dont believe personal attacks are the answer. Simply ask me to clarify my point or ignore it. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - PERSONAL ATTACK) I hope you are right about the trade but I still beleive you have to draft to win. Look at any Stanley cup winner and they all have drafted their stars. Happy posting
(ADMIN EDIT - Thanks for the contribution Guest 4095, but I do invite you to read the posting guidelines found here - http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2160 - Thanks!)
I appreciate the info but I was responding to a personal attack (Alex and Slozo in the forum Burke vs Kessel in which nothing was done.) I get the impression the forum is for members only and guests are tolerated. No worrys though Im done posting. I dont need my intelligence,literacy or my lineage questioned because i thought commentters in a post was funny by a MODERATOR (waht is the defintion of that)who also called a guest a moron. |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2009 : 17:51:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4095
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4095
My opinion is it is a bad deal and we will see that it is a bad deal in 2016 when the picks burke gave up will be playing. Phil had 60 points any Leaf fans remember Berezin, Stempniak,and a couple of other thousand players that had a good yr and then dissappeared . And remember it is two ist, one second and a third round pick. They re-acquired their own second rd by trading a third round so they could make an offer sheet (or to give the impression they were going to give one).In addtion he has a shoulder injury which isnt a good sign as he is only 22 and already banged up. The deal also depends on where the leafs finish. I also think a player that has one decent year and wants huge deal has attitude problem.
Ps i hope you can understand my post slozo. As I am only a 3yr old illiterate southern hick. Sorry about the grammer thought I was posting on a blog. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - PERSONAL ATTACK)
We are not writing essays we are communicating via the typewritten word if something I have written is difficult to understand I sincerely apologize. But I dont believe personal attacks are the answer. Simply ask me to clarify my point or ignore it. (ADMIN EDIT - CONTENT REMOVED - PERSONAL ATTACK) I hope you are right about the trade but I still beleive you have to draft to win. Look at any Stanley cup winner and they all have drafted their stars. Happy posting
(ADMIN EDIT - Thanks for the contribution Guest 4095, but I do invite you to read the posting guidelines found here - http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2160 - Thanks!)
I appreciate the info but I was responding to a personal attack (Alex and Slozo in the forum Burke vs Kessel in which nothing was done.) I get the impression the forum is for members only and guests are tolerated. No worrys though Im done posting. I dont need my intelligence,literacy or my lineage questioned because i thought commentters in a post was funny by a MODERATOR (waht is the defintion of that)who also called a guest a moron.
Sorry I didn't see the other personal attack. Please do send me an email with the a link to the offending post and we'll take care of it. Guidelines should apply to everyone of course. admin (at) pickuphockey.com Thanks! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 05:45:37
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There is no topic called "Burke vs Kessel".
I just searched high and low through every thread with Kessel or Burke in the title . . . and found no such personal attack.
I do remember, a while ago mind you, a post I made correcting a guest's English and grammar. I did this, after the guest made both a personal attack on a member of the site (must have been Alex), while trying to also gain an edge in his argument by correcting my English. Hilariously, they made this "attack" with some pretty poor grammar and spelling. I gave back at the poster with the same sort of stuff, and added that they should look up a few other words like the one in contention that he tried to 'correct' me on, except that those words were arcane versions of words having the same meaning as "fool". At no time did I call anyone a name.
Everything else the guest says here - personal attacks, lineage, etc - is all concocted nonsense from a poster who feels like they should be able to dish out the heat without receiving any back.
So, Guest4095: show me the money!
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? Give us all the link, I can't find it now . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 09/22/2009 05:46:09 |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 09/22/2009 : 07:23:17
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Beans, you're going back to my argument about Loui (was guest9838) from the Burke/Kessel posts prior to the deal being done.
I can see people's optimism in getting a young potential goal scoring threat, but I still firmly believe that the right course would have been to have more patience and not throw our money down on, really, the only thing that was out there at the time.
My argument starts with the idea that to be continuously (and I stress continuously) successful, you need a pipeline of prospects who are NHL ready. Right now it looks like our system is doing ok because we have Hanson, Bozak, Stalberg and Nadri. But next year those guys will all be on the team with the likes of Mayers, Stempniak, Ponikarovsky, Primeau all not being signed back or traded at the deadline. Beyond this the pipeline ends, and it won't be restocked with 1st/2nd round talent for 3 years. So down the line we will once again have a void in players who can compete at the NHL level who are under 23. It is the same old Leafs "win now" mentality, albeit with a better aquisition this time then leaf GMs in the past. I look at teams like Philly, St Louis, LA, Wsh, Chicago, who each have 5 or more of their 1st round selections and a couple 2nd round selections since 2003 on their teams now or ready to make the jump. They are consistenly able to bring up quality guys every year. Yes some of these guys take time, but eventually it won't matter if it takes 4 years to develop a player when you have the pipeline working
The second reason why I don't like this deal is that 5.4 million seems like a ton of money for this kid, who's only 21, is injured and has had only 1 good season playing with a team that was no.2 in the East. I think the Leafs could have been more patient and gotten this guy for less. Boston's back was to the wall. Paying him this money and giving up the picks also hamstrings us down the line on sinking a guy like Kovalchuk at the deadline (this contradicts my first point a bit I know, but I think you should only be giving up your top picks for world class talent). We won't have the resources we need to make a trade if a team like Atlanta knows it won't be able to resign their big gun, I'd expect they'd want like 2 players, a prospect and a couple 1st round picks...
anyways I hoping Kessel proves me wrong, but until then I'll not like the trade. |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 09/22/2009 : 07:24:41
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| sorry Boston was 1st in the east |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 08:08:43
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9818....i'd say we're on the same page here. While i think Kessel's a good pick up, i think they paid a little more than they needed too. I agree that picks are unknown and this kid is somewhat proven but from everything i hear, the Leafs organization is not as deep as some on this site seem to think. One "expert" here on the radio made a point saying that if this were Detroit or LA or a team very deep with their organization at this time, it'd be a good move, but apparently the Leafs are not in the position to be giving up those picks (as far as their future is concerned).
As i said, i'm not familiar with their (Leafs) depth and farm system but if it's as this guys said, they might have overpaid slightly? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 08:25:11
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But wait a second??? Brian Burke was all mad at Kevin Lowe when he signed 29 goal scoring Dustin Penner to a $4.25 million deal and he signs a player with 7 more goals to a contract of more than $1 million more???
Kidding. I would take Kessel over Penner in a heartbeat. I just like stirring the pot.
It's obvious that Burke is looking for playoffs now and that's it. He did get argueably the best player he could at the time. However, at what cost??? Burke is notorious(in my opinion) of building a team up quick at all costs, then getting out of dodge at the first signs of the team starting to slip. Vancouver and Anaheim both!! TO, your time is coming. The team will make the playoffs sooner than later. Maybe this year but for sure next year and more than likely the year after. But then what??? We'll see....... |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 09:04:22
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If burke wisn the cup, then leaves a giant cap mess and then bails town. Ill be fine with that :)
Seriously though, I dont think the pick this year will be any higher than 13th or 14th, I doubt it will be a Kessel type player in that hole. You never know, but its doubtful.
Next year the leafs should be a playoff team for sure and the pick will probably fall closer to the 20 range which is even better for the leafs.
Burke will regain that 2nd at some point this season, White, Van Ryn and Mayers are just a couple candidates that could be moved on their own or as part of a package for picks this year.
Everyone said, 'sure the leafs have good d now, but who is going to score?" well, they got a guy who can score. Hagman and Stajan would be the best fit for Kessel IMO followed up by a 2nd line of Grabovski - Ponikarovsky and Blake, which isnt too bad. If Tlusty or Kulemin can prove that they can stick at the NHL level those are 2 more guys who slot in on the 2nd/3rd lines nicley.
You may agree or disagree with the way Burke goes about his business but at least he is doing everything he can to make the maple leafs respectable again. He managed to pry Kessel away from the division champs and weaken their cup chances this year. Long term the Bruins MAY win, but for this year they definatley got weaker.
Heading into next summer you know Burke will be targeting a centre to play with Kessel and with Marc Savard being a UFA it should be interesting to see if he re-signs in Boston.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 10:32:59
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Matt, interesting point about winning the cup and sacrificing the future to do so. However, i don't think the Leafs are THAT close that it's worth the risk if you know what i mean. If they a team like say Philly is this year with a legitimate shot at the cup and then sacrificed the future, i'd be okay with it. I just think he sacrificed a bit too much from his organization for a piece of the puzzle, but a puzzle that's still missing a lot of pieces! I totally agree that IF they happen to win the cup, the gamble is worthwhile but i don't think they're that close just yet. I know TO would be like here (Van) in that a cup win would mean a 10 year party / celebration so it wouldn't matter what the team was like for the next decade! 
As for getting picks back, it's not as easy as you say. Package White, Van Ryn, etc and it's not gonna get you first rounders. You can always get picks, true, but they're usually later ones that are easy to come by. This can help stockpile players at the minor league level, but not necessarily the quality ones you need to build your organization.
As for Savard, they'd be wise to get him next year. FYI, he assisted on 22 of Kessel's 36 goals. |
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Guest5382
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Posted - 09/22/2009 : 12:52:27
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Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Seriously though, I dont think the pick this year will be any higher than 13th or 14th, I doubt it will be a Kessel type player in that hole. You never know, but its doubtful.
Next year the leafs should be a playoff team for sure and the pick will probably fall closer to the 20 range which is even better for the leafs.
You should read more of Scott Cullen's articles. He breaks down picks at various numbers and the likelihood of them being a player. 14th, and 44th pick (2010) is pretty decent chance of being a good player and having a relatively long NHL career. Also 20th pick in 2011 is a pretty good pickup for a draft too.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Burke will regain that 2nd at some point this season, White, Van Ryn and Mayers are just a couple candidates that could be moved on their own or as part of a package for picks this year.
Really? Considering that they've given up their 3rd round draft pick next year too. Let's see, no picks in the first 3 rounds in the up coming draft. Ouch. He's going to have to trade more than 2 of these guys to get at least a 2nd rounder. These 3 combined isn't going to land a 1st rounder.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Everyone said, 'sure the leafs have good d now, but who is going to score?" well, they got a guy who can score. Hagman and Stajan would be the best fit for Kessel IMO followed up by a 2nd line of Grabovski - Ponikarovsky and Blake, which isnt too bad. If Tlusty or Kulemin can prove that they can stick at the NHL level those are 2 more guys who slot in on the 2nd/3rd lines nicley.
Phil Kessel signing = the Jason Blake signing except it cost more (in every sense - picks and money). Kessel will not get more than 30 goals this year. Unless he gets a first rate disher, he won't ever see this total in a season again.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Heading into next summer you know Burke will be targeting a centre to play with Kessel and with Marc Savard being a UFA it should be interesting to see if he re-signs in Boston.
How much is coming off their salary to make this possible? A player of Savard's caliber is likely asking for $6M+. Salary cap likely to come down. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 13:53:09
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Like I said earlier, Kessel at 21 (almost 22) is just like getting a first round pick anyways. Also after the 5th pick in next years draft it is a total crap shoot. So I say the risk between Kessel and a 2010 first round pick is even. For the 2011 pick the field is even less talented so far.
What I am not liking is that my fellow leaf fans are getting carried away, again, with the whole Kessel thing. Being realistic, he is coming to a team with no other bonafide 1st liner, he is coming off major shoulder surgery, and he is coming to the most hockey mad market in the NHL where great players have been run out of town before (remember Larry Murphy, he sucked as a Leaf but goes on to be a major reason the Wings won the cup). I think that to expect him to top last season would be foolish.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 14:06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Like I said earlier, Kessel at 21 (almost 22) is just like getting a first round pick anyways. Also after the 5th pick in next years draft it is a total crap shoot. So I say the risk between Kessel and a 2010 first round pick is even. For the 2011 pick the field is even less talented so far.
What I am not liking is that my fellow leaf fans are getting carried away, again, with the whole Kessel thing. Being realistic, he is coming to a team with no other bonafide 1st liner, he is coming off major shoulder surgery, and he is coming to the most hockey mad market in the NHL where great players have been run out of town before (remember Larry Murphy, he sucked as a Leaf but goes on to be a major reason the Wings won the cup). I think that to expect him to top last season would be foolish.
Ahh, very refreshing to see a realistic logically thinking Leafs fan. You guys seem to either be the minority or a lot more quiet than the illogical thinkers out there!!
I agree that Kessel is on par with a top 5 pick. In fact, I would put him above that because he is a legitimate 1st line player and at the least a roster player today. But, I have to say that the one fella had a good point. What picks does TO have next year or the year after for that matter???
As I said, Burke will get you good quick. But he won't keep you good. Maybe it's at the point in TO where a Cup would bring happiness for enough years where the team could rebuild again. I just think that Burke's moves are far more short term than longer term. That could prove to be dangerous, especially if TO is not successful in the short term. |
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Guest6000
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Posted - 09/22/2009 : 15:33:47
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
There is no topic called "Burke vs Kessel".
I just searched high and low through every thread with Kessel or Burke in the title . . . and found no such personal attack.
I do remember, a while ago mind you, a post I made correcting a guest's English and grammar. I did this, after the guest made both a personal attack on a member of the site (must have been Alex), while trying to also gain an edge in his argument by correcting my English. Hilariously, they made this "attack" with some pretty poor grammar and spelling. I gave back at the poster with the same sort of stuff, and added that they should look up a few other words like the one in contention that he tried to 'correct' me on, except that those words were arcane versions of words having the same meaning as "fool". At no time did I call anyone a name.
Everything else the guest says here - personal attacks, lineage, etc - is all concocted nonsense from a poster who feels like they should be able to dish out the heat without receiving any back.
So, Guest4095: show me the money!
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? Give us all the link, I can't find it now . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
burke and kessel |
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Guest6000
( )
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Posted - 09/22/2009 : 16:20:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6000
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
There is no topic called "Burke vs Kessel".
I just searched high and low through every thread with Kessel or Burke in the title . . . and found no such personal attack.
I do remember, a while ago mind you, a post I made correcting a guest's English and grammar. I did this, after the guest made both a personal attack on a member of the site (must have been Alex), while trying to also gain an edge in his argument by correcting my English. Hilariously, they made this "attack" with some pretty poor grammar and spelling. I gave back at the poster with the same sort of stuff, and added that they should look up a few other words like the one in contention that he tried to 'correct' me on, except that those words were arcane versions of words having the same meaning as "fool". At no time did I call anyone a name.
Everything else the guest says here - personal attacks, lineage, etc - is all concocted nonsense from a poster who feels like they should be able to dish out the heat without receiving any back.
So, Guest4095: show me the money!
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF? Give us all the link, I can't find it now . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
burke and kessel
What heat all I mentioned was I found it hilarious that literacy and commenters was in the same sentence (thats it). Sorry I didn't recognize the word. I have subsequently checked on Websters who also don't recognize the word but wilkpedia does. Neither of which matters I didnt intend it as an insult hence the the word hilarious in my comment.At no time in that sentence did I question Your literacy. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 17:26:35
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My dear Guest and the others who want to carry on a battle that is off the topic.
I am not a moderator, but you are ruining a good topic, stay the course and don't mess it up for the rest of us!! Please!!
Sorry Admin, the other moderators and all the members i know its not my place to make such a statement but this is getting ridiculous. |
Edited by - Porkchop73 on 09/22/2009 17:27:44 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 17:54:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sharksfan44
thorntonistheman, how can u say he is not a proven goal scorer. do u not recall that last year kessel went on a huge goal scoring streak. im too lazy to check the exact amount of games in a row which he scored a goal but it must have been 15-20 games. not just anyone can do that. also as i already mentioned in my previous post, he got sick and missed a number of games which really took a toll on him. if he wouldn't have gotten sick, he would have scored 40+ goals easily.
i dont know the name of the sickness he got but it was a pretty serious one. and for him to come back and still finish the season with 36 goals is pretty impressive.
I am not lazy and looked it up. His longest goal streak was at 6 games but during a 14 game span he potted 14 goals. During that streak he scored twice 2 times and had two goaless games. Also during that time he had a 18 game point scoring streak. He has had only 2 hatricks. Still impressive stats for a younger player. Prior to that run he has never run anything more than a 9 game point streak and 4 game goal streak.
One person could say and may be right that he could have been a one (playing year or point streak) hit wonder and may never produce for the leafs what he did along one of the most underated players, (IMO) in the game in Savard.
Im really hoping he turns out to be another Blake for the leafs if only so the Senators can avoid a post season match, lol. |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2009 : 18:10:07
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| sorry, i could have sworn it was a goal scoring streak but ya ur right it was a point streak, man i've been out of it latley |
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Burke signs kessel 
