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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2009 : 09:43:50
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Or I could be wrong. Lets see..almost twice as many goals against as goals for; 7 games=1 point : presently on pace for a season total of 12.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 10:54:40
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Yes, as I said repeatedly beofre the season starts that even on paper they just don't look that good. I kept getting "ya but they were in the top 10 in scoring last year. And as I said, they punched above their weight, and that looks exactly to be the case.
I'm also beginning to wonder if Markov covered for Komisarek way more than we ever knew. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 12:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
Yes, as I said repeatedly beofre the season starts that even on paper they just don't look that good. I kept getting "ya but they were in the top 10 in scoring last year. And as I said, they punched above their weight, and that looks exactly to be the case.
I'm also beginning to wonder if Markov covered for Komisarek way more than we ever knew.
It wasnt just that they finished top 10 in scoring last year, they have been top 10 in scoring the past 4 years, with alot of the same players. Even without Sundin last year they finished top 10. They leafs need a bloody goaltender more than anything.
All those years finishing in top 10 in scoring, they were bottom 5 in goaltending stats, goals against and the PK. Team defence plays a part in that, but the goaltending has been dreadful.
The whole team has looked like s*** so far, but I know they are better than this and will string together a few wins to get their confidence back. My prediction of a playoff birth seems remote at best but I dont think they will finish in the bottom 5 either.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 14:25:25
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The battle cry of the Desparate. "We need a new goalie". Seriously, look at how that team has played. You could put Roy, Hasek, Belfour, and Cujo in their primes in the net all at the same time and they Leafs still lose if their defense plays as poorly as they have.
That is an embelishment, I realize that. But the point is the same. Until the players in front of the goalie get better, the poor keeper has no chance. Put the best goalie in the league today in the net and they Leafs still lose every game they lost with the exception of Montreal.
We are not talking about 1 goal games where a key save would change the fortunes. We are talking about blow outs game after game.
You will see the Leafs win when they stay out of the penalty box and they smartly move the puck out of their end. As said, their offense is fine. Defense is garbage. Goalie has no chance. |
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trimble94
Top Prospect
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 15:30:46
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| with the 1st overall pick the boston bruins would like to select from the windsor spitfires taylor hall hahaha |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 18:08:30
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I don't think we need any new goalies When Gustavsson comes back the net will be sharp again, he hasn't looked bad at all this season. MacDonald, hasn't been great but at least he can stop the puck. I say Toronto's best bet would be to ditch Toskala because he hasn't done anything since he played for San Jose Sharks a team that easily made him look better than he really is...
Toronto has good defensive and offensive core, they just need to start playing together... The defense is a totally different team then last year, they need to get used to playing with each other, I know perfectly well in time when the Leafs D get used to each other they will be great, Toronto's offense, I think they need to bring up Bozak and play him for the rest of the season because he is going to be a great player, same with Stalberg in time, that's when he feels comfortable with his role in the NHL...
Last year Toronto was one of the best over team in scoring, and I feel Toronto has upgraded there team to better, I'm still going to say The Leafs Are A Playoff Team, ITS EARLY, They have just been off to a BAD start, that is all...
They will turn it around Saturday October 24th against Vancouver as they get there first win of the season and start there winning streak...
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
Edited by - hanley6 on 10/20/2009 18:13:29 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 22:16:33
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This crap about the Leafs defense learning to play together is a joke. Other teams retooled their teams either offensively or defensively and it hasn't taken them 8 games to click.
Honestly, I think the look of the Leafs on paper was better than what was actually there. Specifically, Komisarek and Beauchemin. Both players had brilliant partners in their past (Markov and Neidermayer/Pronger) and they are ultimately great 2nd fiddle guys. But niether is a #1 guy.
The Leafs defense has 1 legitimate gamer(Kaberle), 2 2nd fiddles)Komisarek and Beauchemin), a sophmore in the middle of a slump(Schenn), a rotating player (Exelby, et al) and a really solid player in Ian White. That's 2 out of 6 that are worth their salt.
I'm not trying to sound negative because I really don't want to hear about what could have been from all the Leaf fans out there, but it's gonna be a long season in TO. Monster, Broduer, Luongo, Toskala doesn't matter. Kessel comes doesn't matter. If that defense can't move the puck and hold down the fort even marginally, they won't win much at all. |
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Guest8437
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 07:51:21
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| Too bad the Canucks get to beat up on that sad sack team next. I can't wait till my team gets to pad it's stats against this laughable Leafs squad. |
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Guest8437
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 07:56:39
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| The Bruins are licking their lips and laughing right now, and so they should be. Burke is gonna look like even more of an idiot when the Leafs secure the #1 overall pick next draft for the top team in their division. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 08:07:42
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Beans, I usually dont really disagree with you but I have to on this one.
The goaltending has been the main reason (not the only) the leafs are getting killed. Soft goals all over the place, brutal save percentages from Toskala and Macdonald. Gustavsson looked good in his 1 start but has been on the shelf. I cant wait until he is back.
The defence hasnt been great I know, but they arent hanging the goalie out to dry as much as you think. Look at the ranger game last saturday, that marc staal wraparound goal was brutal. Any goalie should be able to stop that, it completley deflated the team right after they built up some momentum and were controlling the tempo of the game. Del Zottos point shot went clean through MacDonalds legs, that should have been stopped. The team has no confidence in the goaltending and it is affecting their play.
Toskala cant get through 1 game without allowing at least 5 goals, im sorry but that is just bad goaltending.
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I know this just sounds like lame leaf fan excuses, but when you really look at the goaltending numbers from this year, last year and the year before they are just terrible.
The leaf teams on the late 90's and early 2000's werent really defensivley sound at all either, but with Cujo and Belfour in net they were able to get key saves at key times plus they were able to maintain a GAA under 3 and a save percentage over .900, something the leafs have not really had since.
I dont want this to seem like a blanket excuse for all the problems in leaf land, but seriously goaltending is at the top of the list. Gustavsson is the last hope for decent goaltending within the organization, if he doesn't pan out than Burke has to find a goalie.
Leafs are brutal i know, this is a very dark time for fans like myself. A season like this will really test the patience of true fans.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest9838
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:49:24
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Goaltending Goaltending Goaltending... I wonder why no one has picked up Manny Fernandez yet.
I'm a leafs fan but I know solid goaltending would not have saved us from the shellacing we got from NY, and many of the others.
People are saying the offense is ok, it isn't, take the last 5 games (in reverse order):
4-1, 4-1, 7-2, 5-2, 2-1... that's 22-7. Even if better goaltending took off 2 weak goals a game, we'd have won perhaps only 1 game in this stretch. that game was with our "better" goaltending as it was (Gustavsson).
I'd like to defend the Leafs but I can't, they just haven't looked good out there in ANY aspect of the game.
Going back to the topic I really wonder when this team will win... Vancouver has to be the best bet (yet again, it's always the next team), but if they don't.... |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 10:56:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9838
Goaltending Goaltending Goaltending... I wonder why no one has picked up Manny Fernandez yet.
I'm a leafs fan but I know solid goaltending would not have saved us from the shellacing we got from NY, and many of the others.
People are saying the offense is ok, it isn't, take the last 5 games (in reverse order):
4-1, 4-1, 7-2, 5-2, 2-1... that's 22-7. Even if better goaltending took off 2 weak goals a game, we'd have won perhaps only 1 game in this stretch. that game was with our "better" goaltending as it was (Gustavsson).
I'd like to defend the Leafs but I can't, they just haven't looked good out there in ANY aspect of the game.
Going back to the topic I really wonder when this team will win... Vancouver has to be the best bet (yet again, it's always the next team), but if they don't....
Your not taking into account how deflating those bad goals are, it seems every time the leafs scored a goal the other team would go come right back and pot a softy on the leaf goalie, everyone would hang their heads and the game would be as good as lost. Either that, or Toskala has let in a goal on the first shot, or let in 2 or 3 goals on the first 4 or 5 shots he faced. Thats just not acceptable.
Obviously the team D needs to step up and support the goaltenders but 1 save at a key time would be nice, every other freaking team in the league gets a big save now and then, the leafs have had maybe 1 big save this year from someone other than Gustavsson.
I beleive Manny is injury prone and getting old, which is probably why a team hasnt signed him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:22:00
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Hoping I'm right in saying they'll beat Buffalo or Montreal. I don't think they going to have a better chance before then.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 16:52:24
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All I can say is whoever has got this team figured out give Ron Wilson a call and let him know.
There is no reason the defense on this Leafs squad should be as horrible as they are. The forwards we know are not that great but I cannot get a grip on this D. I do not see how they can be this horrible. They all have proven to be solid d-men in seasons past.
I thought they played a solid two periods last game against the Rangers but they are still a long way from being anything but crap!
And about a first round pick. Whoever does not see Phil Kessel as the same a 1st round or even a 1st overall in next years draft knows nothing about the crop of players eligible in the 2010 draft. It is an excellent year for a gamble. In fact the next two years look really lean in the draft. I bet know one can name one player that will have an immediate impact, like Phil Kessel does, from the 2010 draft eligible players. There is not even one player rated as highly as Steven Stamkos was and look at his freshman season! |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 18:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9838
Goaltending Goaltending Goaltending... I wonder why no one has picked up Manny Fernandez yet.
I'm a leafs fan but I know solid goaltending would not have saved us from the shellacing we got from NY, and many of the others.
People are saying the offense is ok, it isn't, take the last 5 games (in reverse order):
4-1, 4-1, 7-2, 5-2, 2-1... that's 22-7. Even if better goaltending took off 2 weak goals a game, we'd have won perhaps only 1 game in this stretch. that game was with our "better" goaltending as it was (Gustavsson).
I'd like to defend the Leafs but I can't, they just haven't looked good out there in ANY aspect of the game.
Going back to the topic I really wonder when this team will win... Vancouver has to be the best bet (yet again, it's always the next team), but if they don't....
Toronto out played New York.... Lundqvist was on fire and really the only reason why Toronto didn't walk away with the win
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 07:42:04
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Taylor Hall looks pretty impressive.... so does Tyler Seguin, but yea other than those 2 there arent any big names. But that doesnt mean no one will turn out to be a good player
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest9494
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 09:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
When Burke was looking for "truculance" I don't think he expected those player to be spending so much time in the Box. It doesn't take penalties to be team tough. The Beef on the Leafs bench can lean on the other team physically without taking the stupid penalties. I think that is what Burke talked about today after practice.
I also like Burke publicly saying there will be various player changes before the coach is looked. The Leaf's lack of fortune to this point has nothing to do with coaching. It has to do with poor execution.
S#1t rolls downhill, is that right? Burke and Wilson are very proud and cocky people, and as such, should take responsibility for the Leafs' slow start. No sympathy here. I'm surprised with you, Beans. The quality of the team is dictated by the GM. The execution is dictated by the coach.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2010.
you forget this Oilcountry beans still think Mact wasn't the reasons the oilers sucked for so many year...funny how so many things can go right when your not sitting on a goal lead and calling out players like a drunk driver....Thank you Pat Quinn. Poor Canadas spenglar cup team there going to get destroyed haha |
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Guest9838
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 09:24:21
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| Pogge's been called up from the ECHL to Anaheim... how huge would that be if they played him and the Ducks won on Monday. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 09:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9494
[
you forget this Oilcountry beans still think Mact wasn't the reasons the oilers sucked for so many year...funny how so many things can go right when your not sitting on a goal lead and calling out players like a drunk driver....Thank you Pat Quinn. Poor Canadas spenglar cup team there going to get destroyed haha
The cats wear coats in summer and the fire burns deep in the pits of lettuce while potato salad runs through the chasm of misfortune....
There, that makes as much sense as the above post..  |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 14:10:14
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As for the goalie or defense debate. Well first of all it's true that the defense is playing really aweful and they are not giving them much chances. BUT if the goalies would make a key save once in a while, or kill a penalty by themselves, or just steal one game. Then the confidence of the team would go higher, the game play would change, defense would play better and forwards also and THEN we would get team wins.
I'm just saying that everybody is playing like crap right now, but the goalie needs step up in order to make this team compete.
I've seen in the past a lot of s***ty teams wins because of a hot goalie and THEN gain confidence. Like Phoenix and Colorado are doing. The teams are playing well and it started with hot goalies.
Can't wait to see Gustavsson play full time. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 18:19:16
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I agree a goalie stealing a game would be a benefit. However, other than the 1st game of the year against Montreal, no goalie in the world could have stolen any of those games. Against some people's opinions, the Leafs have been grossly outplayed the majority of the games this year. As previously posted, these have not been one goal, key save wins kind of games. I think the number was outscoring 22-7 in 5 games.
No goalie wins those game. The Defense gets better, the goalie gets confident(regardless of who it is) and the Leafs will start to win. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 18:31:38
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Sometimes, when trying to figure out what is going wrong . . . you have to start with what is going right.
Oh, wait - nothing is going right!
Bad bounces and bad goals aside, I have to say as in almost all situations, it's not just one thing. The goaltending has not been very good for even one game - ok for the first game, below average to poor for the rest. The offense has been below average, which compared to last year is well below what they should be at. And the defence has been . . . well, we can only compare to the new D to what they were doing on totally different teams, but even the D that we had last year (Kaberle and White and Schenn and Finger namely) have all played poorly except for White.
God bless Ian White.
Look, there has been some of everything - bad D (plenty of it), bad goaltending (a fair bit), bad offence (a bit for what they are) and overall bad luck/bounces (some). Frankly, all it would take is a mediocre game by everyone but a great game by Kaberle and the goalie in net, and that's a win against a middling team.
I am liking that Vancouver won last game, but played barely ok in the win ( I watched most of it). Leafs have a chance at least, especially with Luongo not on top of his game. I say the win comes on Saturday . . . although, if anyone is counting, I'm 0 for 3 in this thread already . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest9102
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Posted - 10/23/2009 : 10:35:17
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| I'm with you slozo. (Even though Luongo's my 2nd round pick). I'm a little inviigorted by the oil right now. Theres a team that noone gave any cred on paper, but give them a season or two of playing in the mud and maybe something might come of it (though it is early days). |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 10:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9494
[
you forget this Oilcountry beans still think Mact wasn't the reasons the oilers sucked for so many year...funny how so many things can go right when your not sitting on a goal lead and calling out players like a drunk driver....Thank you Pat Quinn. Poor Canadas spenglar cup team there going to get destroyed haha
The cats wear coats in summer and the fire burns deep in the pits of lettuce while potato salad runs through the chasm of misfortune....
There, that makes as much sense as the above post..
Lol! that is some funny sh!t!! |
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Guest4707
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Posted - 10/23/2009 : 21:48:06
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The Kessel trade should have been blocked by the damn league head office for being so one-sided. Two almost for sure lottery picks with a chance to go #1 and #1 , and a second rounder for Phil Kessel is absolutely brutal if you are a leafs fan.
The smarter move would have been to tank another season or two, draft maybe Taylor Hall next year and another sniper the year after. Now you have Hall, Kadri and player X as scoring threats, Schenn as the linchpin on defense and the Monster in goal. Nice young nucleus to build around for the next decade. Lets call this the Pittsburgh Penguins model for franchise development. Absolutely suck balls for 4-5 years, draft well and build from that core.
Instead, you have an undersized 30-40 goal man who played with one of the best playmakers in the league. Im not hating on Kessel, he's a talented guy, but Boston clearly felt he was expendable for the money, you would think Toronto could have swung a better deal. As it turns out, |
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Guest9838
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Posted - 10/27/2009 : 06:36:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9838
this topic has gone a bit off the rails... I believe there's a bunch of Kessel one's.
Going back to the matter at hand. Now that Colorado is done, I wonder if people will start voting for NYR. They do have something to prove against the team that embarrased them.
But I bet it'll be against one of the unlikely candidates. Just a random night where the leafs put things together, bounces (off the head) go their way and the other team has an off night. A team like Anaheim. either that or we'll go 0 for October and beat TB on Nov 3rd. The leafs always seem to beat TB. After that it doesn't look pretty.
Car, Det, Min, Chi, Cgy (I don't think the leafs can beat any of these teams without a lot of luck)
Well what do ya know.... There it is Anaheim having a horrible night and the Leafs putting it together.
Now the question is does it start all over again? Next 10 games are Dal, Buf, Mtl, TB, Car, Det, Min, Chi, Cgy, Ott, I see maybe 4 wins in this group (Mtl, TB, Car, Min being the more obvious choices) |
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Larrydavid
Top Prospect
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 09:45:43
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| Even A broken clock is right twice a day. |
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie
165 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 12:06:10
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| Leafs should at least be able to beat Tampa and Minn coming up... WIth Gustaffson showing promise the leafs will at least be able to keep the games close. If they get Kessel back and contributing they may be able to go on a pointless late-season winning streak which they have been very good at the last few years. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 12:22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection
Leafs should at least be able to beat Tampa and Minn coming up... WIth Gustaffson showing promise the leafs will at least be able to keep the games close. If they get Kessel back and contributing they may be able to go on a pointless late-season winning streak which they have been very good at the last few years.
Actually since their first round draft pick is going to a division rival Boston. The winning streak at the end of the season would be nice. If they can climb the standings and stay out of lottery draft. |
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Leafs Futility Streak 
