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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2009 : 15:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinOilCountry
Well if we're gonna talk defense lines:
Keith - Seabrook
Boyle - Green
Phaneuf - Reghr
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
No Niedermeyer? No Pronger? No chance of that.......
Me, i don't see Green making it, nor do i see Seabrook, although maybe as the extra?
Pronger
Niedermeyer
Regehr
Weber
Boyle
Bouwmeester
extra: Keith
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 18:08:31
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I guess I should quantify my D picks... explain my logic a bit.
I put up Keith and Seabrook because as a pair I don't think theres a better pairing currently in the NHL, but I wouldn't take one without the other.
Pronger and Niedermeyer are a phenomenal pairing, so yea I would put them in instead of Boyle and Green. I never really paired them together myself simply because I wasn't looking at past seasons.
Phaneuf and Reghr I picked for the same reasons as Keith and Seabrook but if I had to break this up I'd keep Phaneuf and sub in Boyle or Weber.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Guest9042
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 07:24:45
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| I think penner will definately make Team Canada. He is a solid playing who has proven that he can score goals and get points. He is playing at top form this year and I think he will definately make the team. Also, you can't get a better scorer combined with such a big and tough body. He is definately a player Steve Y will consider! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 11:16:22
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Beans, how can you leave off Carter?
He scored 46 goals, 38 assists, 84 points last year. He is a big, strong physical centre who can also play the wing; he is pretty fast, and has a wicked shot. This year, in 16 games, he has 7 goals, 12 assists, 19 points, putting him on pace for about 35 goals, 60 assists if going at the same pace. I know his three seasons previous to that were just ok, not great . . . but it really looks as if he has come into his own at this point, and his play has not dropped off one bit from last season's career year.
I agree that he is not a proven 80+ point player who can score over 40 goals every season . . . but he is on a very similar pace as last year, and right now, it looks like he is ready to duplicate last year's points with a few less goals and more assists - although, the sampling is pretty small at this point to make too many predictions. Still, going on what we know . . . we have to take Carter.
And I really can't see Yzerman skipping Carter, unless he has a disasterous second quarter or injury - both unlikely, as he has played a full season the last two years, and has shown last year that he has become a steady point producer.
* * * * *
Now, Penner.
Before this year, he has never scored more than 29 goals, and the last two years all of his stats have declined. More than that, his weaknesses through those two years became sore spots - he is not a fast skater, and had a somewhat lazy work ethic. He was certainly not on the radar for Yzerman last year, I'd say.
So, this year, he is having a phenomenal start - in 19 games played so far, he has 11 goals, 11 assists, 22 pts, and is a +9 on a very middling team. He is in better shape, and seems revitalised.
Yet, the fact still remains that his work ethic is still questionable at times; his last 6 games (after a 1g, 3a effort in a win against Detroit) he has 2g, 1 a . . . admittedly, while the Oilers are mostly losing. Will he slip back down to reality again, and end up with under 30 goals and 30 assists? It's not only possible, but likely, going by past history.
For me, Penner would have to continue to pick it up and score another 9 or 10 goals before the end of the year to be a serious consideration. The scouts for team Canada are going to do their due diligence and make sure they have a good read on him just in case he continues his great start, which in all probability is a very slim chance.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 13:37:38
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Couple of things.
Firstly, don't confuse Penner's lack of production with lack of effort. With the exception of many one or two games here Khabibulin stole the show, Penner has been the best Oiler on the ice every game.
Now, to Carter. Speaking purely on this season, Carter brings pretty much the same thing to the table as Penner does. In fact, maybe a little less because I think Penners hands are better, specifically in front of the net on the PP. And if I am saying that M. Richards is not on my team, then Carter is going in without any kind of recent chemistry with anyone.
As I said, M.Richards and Carter are a pair. I would not take one without the other. I also think there are players as good or better than don't have to come as a pair.
And one more time, I could care less what the players did before this season. Mike Green was the most productive offensive defensemen in the league last year and at least 75% of people had him on the Olympic team. He comes in this year 20 lbs heavier and stil have 18 points, but only 3 goals. No one is talking about his anymore.
If I was picking a team today, I could care less what a player did over a 82 game season 12-18 months ago. What has he done lately and what kind of chemistry does he have now or could build quickly.
Nothing else is relevant. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 17:40:20
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No, a lot of other things are relevent, actually.
Skill. Past performance in playoffs/Olympic tourny/international tournament. Versatility in terms of positions, roles.
Penner has never scored 30 goals in a season with his "soft hands". Carter has scored 46, just last year . . . and he is looking to be on a pace to at least be in the same ballpark this year, at least in points. He is playing well, so certainly no need for a downgrade there . . . I think everyone recognises (except for you) that Carter is a very talented player who needs to be on team Canada.
And although I think he can play with anyone, and I don't feel his spot is predicated on Richards making it, I do think M.Richards will make it on as the fourth/third line center, or possible winger.
The thing you are missing is that Carter and Richards are versatile - Penner is not. Penner is not a playmaker . . . he is a power forward winger, a guy to stand in front of the net and take abuse. He is not fast, and to my knowledge, does not kill penalties. He is not a great defensive player. But, both Carter and M.Richards do kill penalties at times - oh, wait - they are really good at it! Last year M.Richards had 7 SHG, Carter 4.
When Yzerman talks about "different roles" . . . team Canada needs these penalty killing specialists, who just happen to be elite playmakers and goal scorers as well.
Penner doesn't match up at all, from what I can see.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest7006
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 18:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
When Yzerman talks about "different roles" . . . team Canada needs these penalty killing specialists, who just happen to be elite playmakers and goal scorers as well.
Penner doesn't match up at all, from what I can see.
Sorry guys. You want versatility? I'll take the somewhat smaller but much more versatile Morrow, Doan and M. Richards combo over Penner, Carter and who ever.
Go ahead pick a better threesome (hockey boys - c'mon now head out of that gutter and typing with two hands). You want speed. Check. Scoring - double check. Grit - triple check. Consistency - quadruple check. How about versatility - infinity check.
If I was Stevie Y, I'd guarantee you these 3 would play together in the 2010 Olympics or my name is Wayne Gretzky. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 19:25:08
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Beans if you say that M Richards and Carter are a pair and only go if the other one does you obviously don't watch any Flyers games. They are both Centers and play on seperate lines. They also don't play on the same pp unit unless its a 5-3. To say that 2 players who don't even play on the same line on their team can only go if the other one does is ridiculus, though not as ridiculus as saying Penner will make the team.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Guest9494
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 20:44:49
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
No, a lot of other things are relevent, actually.
Skill. Past performance in playoffs/Olympic tourny/international tournament. Versatility in terms of positions, roles.
Penner has never scored 30 goals in a season with his "soft hands". Carter has scored 46, just last year . . . and he is looking to be on a pace to at least be in the same ballpark this year, at least in points. He is playing well, so certainly no need for a downgrade there . . . I think everyone recognises (except for you) that Carter is a very talented player who needs to be on team Canada.
And although I think he can play with anyone, and I don't feel his spot is predicated on Richards making it, I do think M.Richards will make it on as the fourth/third line center, or possible winger.
The thing you are missing is that Carter and Richards are versatile - Penner is not. Penner is not a playmaker . . . he is a power forward winger, a guy to stand in front of the net and take abuse. He is not fast, and to my knowledge, does not kill penalties. He is not a great defensive player. But, both Carter and M.Richards do kill penalties at times - oh, wait - they are really good at it! Last year M.Richards had 7 SHG, Carter 4.
When Yzerman talks about "different roles" . . . team Canada needs these penalty killing specialists, who just happen to be elite playmakers and goal scorers as well.
Penner doesn't match up at all, from what I can see.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Penner plays PK, Penner has wheels this year, Penner has all dangles but no finish right now, Penner is +9 on a Oilers team plague by the flu bug/injuries. Penner is the only reason why people show up to game still, Although I disagree with Penner playing in this years olympics if he continues to turn into the ryan smyth like player hes becomming I will have no problem when it comes to next year.
PS Smyth should make the team this year correct me if im wrong any Kings fans Kopitar wouldn't be having a comeback season if it wasn't for him
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 20:48:58
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I do watch Philly games. Every one I can out here in Edmonton .Every one of them where I see Carter and Richards play on every PP together.
So it's likely that many of you from out east obviously don't see many Oilers games. If you did, you would see that Penner is often used on the Oilers top PK line. You would also see that he is one of the top 5 players in the league at strength on the puck. He chased down Derek Roy on a break last week so you tell me how slow that is.
I kid you not, if you put a mask on him and put him in a Nash jersey, you would not be able to tell the difference (this season specifically).
And so what if Carter had 46 goals last year? What pace is he on this year?? 35. Which is respectable. But I like Penner's pace of 49 better. I also like Penners +10 on a below average team compared to Carters +2 on a far superior defensive team.
Realistically, it's beyond frustrating that people can't see the forrest for the trees. I never said Carter would not make the team. Nor Richards. I simply said that IF the tourney started today, I would take Penner simply based on how he has played this season. I don't need or care what he does in the regular season. All I know is that in the past 6 weeks, he has been one of the top 3 power forwards in the world and I would be doing my team a huge disservice if I didn't even consider him.
Completely discluding him is the rediculous thing. How can you say that a players tied for 4th in the league in points, tied for 3rd in the league in goals, tied for 10th in assists, tied for 5th in +/-(on a team with a losing record), and tied for 5th in PP goals doesn't even get a consideration???
If he name wasn't Penner, we would not even be having his conversation. If it was Lecavalier, no arguements.
Carter will more than likely be there. So will Richards. If I was picking the team today, I would include Penner. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 21:25:52
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firstly, I dont think Carter will be there, I do think Richards will. Penner would get considered if the Olympics started tomorrow but they don't and Penner is going to have to play better than he is now to make the team, Your arguement about Penners points is useless, Marc Savard is top 5 in points since the Lockout and he did not even get invited to the camp. It is going to take more than having a lot points to make the team.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 21:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
firstly, I dont think Carter will be there, I do think Richards will. Penner would get considered if the Olympics started tomorrow but they don't and Penner is going to have to play better than he is now to make the team, Your arguement about Penners points is useless, Marc Savard is top 5 in points since the Lockout and he did not even get invited to the camp. It is going to take more than having a lot points to make the team.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
My aunt would be my uncle if she had different equipment.
I never said Penner would be on the team in February. I said that if they Olympics started today, he would get considered.
That's it!! Why do people struggle with that concept so much?? |
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Guest7195
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Posted - 11/16/2009 : 08:23:11
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Your gold medal squad:
LW Joe Thornton C Crosby RW Iginla
Lw Nash C Getzlaf Rw Perry
Lw St. Louis C Richards RW Doan
Lw J. Stall C E. Stall Rw Marleau
Top 2 lines with world class skill, speed, size, work ethic, and winning pedigree ('cept Thornton, see below)
Bottom 2 lines have tons of skill, size, speed etc. but also more sandpaper and defensive leanings.
Dont forget, these games are played on NHL size ice...hitting and physical play will be factors. And none of these players are prone to stupid penalties (maybe Perry). Also, 7 of the 12 are centers, but they are all good enough to make the simple trasition to winger (it's an easier postition to play).
To expain:
Thornton: Lazy and uninspired at times, but also undefensibly big and skilled and can handle Crosby's incredible execution level...
St. Louis (Art Ross, Stanley Cup) is one of the most underrated players in the NHL...his intensity ( at only 5ft 6') makes the players and team around him better..to me, if you take him out R. Smyth goes in...
Jordan Stall : Used to playing 3rd string on a winner...dominated in that role in the final last year....
The spares: Ryan Smyth, J Toews, Jeff Carter,....poor Savard - no respect
Have to admit : 23 points, +10 for Penner in 20 games is damn impressive. It's no fluke if you watch him play either, he is too big to move from the net....but he doesn't have the track record to make the team..
.I'd like to see Stamkos and Tavares invited to the games to watch and learn...
Defense:
Don't forget: NHL size ice, intimidation will be a factor against the bottom half of Russia and Swedens rosters:
Niedermayer, Pronger,
Weber, Boyle,
Keith, Seabrook,
#7 Doughty (I would - Watch him play, he is probably the best of the bunch),
Phaneuf, Green (defensive liability??),
Goalie:
Here is where me may screw up:
The goalies probably should be: MA Fluery, Steve Mason, Cam Ward
But they probably will be: Brodeur (game 7 Carolina - nuff said), Bobby Lou (broken rib, no cup ring), Osgood or Turco.....
So I would do this: #1 Brodeur..let him take the pressure of the #1 spot
#2 MA Fluery....put him in when Brodeur lets in a softy
#3 Ward of Mason, doesn't matter they aint playin
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 11:06:04
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7195....interesting comments. Don't agree with a lot of it, but nothing moreso than your goalie discussion.
The goalies probably should be: MA Fluery, Steve Mason, Cam Ward???  What exactly do you mean by this? Is that who you really feel deserve to be the goalies on this squad??? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 12:38:38
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Ya know, this is one of the better line up's posted and makes a lot of sense. But there is 1 huge, glaring issue.
Where the hell is Dany Heatley?? I bet this line up what found using stats on NHL.com on Canadian players. Heatley was born in Germany, hence he was missed. That is the only possible explaination. Heatley is (and has been for the past number of seasons) a top 3 goal scorer in the world. He is DEFINATELY on the team.
I like Jordan Staal. I think he is a beast size wise, it hugely under rated offensively because of the players he is behind, and has the attitude needed to play a 4th line role and help the team win.
Unfortunately, with the media scrutiny, he won't see that jersey this time around. Too many other players that the media think should be on the team. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 13:06:37
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Beans, do you really think the media is gonna play into Yzermans (and his helpers) decisions? I would think not myself?
You are correct about Heatley, not sure how he was missed but he's about as sure a thing as anyone.
J. Staal, imo, misses and while i'd agree he's a little underrated because of the situation in Pittsburgh, i still don't think he's shown enough to be considered a top12 forward in the league. Thing is, a number of years ago, a guy like him may have made it as a role filling player. I just don't think they're going to want to move that many centers to wing so he could be the odd man out? Then again, if you're talking about him as a role player on the fourth line, i'd prob take him in that role over his brother at this point?
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phlyguy90
Rookie
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 13:07:05
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| you would take brad richards over mike richards? you need to get your head checked. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 13:13:29
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Goaltending will be Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, and Marc Andre Fleury, Steve Mason was a long shot from the outset and has effectively played his way off the team and with the horrible start and recent injury to cam ward his chanced have dropped dramatically too. Brodeur is playing at an elite level as usual so i would say the starting job is his to lose.
Forwards as i see shape up like this with line tweaking along the way:
Forwards:
Nash Crosby Iginla
Heatley Thorton Marleau
Toews Getzlaf Perry
Carter Richards Smyth
Alternates: Eric Staal (has had a rough start so come december could crack the line up if smyth falls off or toews is injured)
Steve Stamkos (has become a go to guy in tampa but left off due to his age similar to crosby in 06)
Defence:
Pronger Bouwmeester - Shut down pair
Boyle Phaneuf -2nd pair Boyle on power play
Neidermayer Weber - 3rd pair weber on power play
Alternate: Duncan Keith
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 13:33:47
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I have a really hard time wrapping my head around Mason and Ward over Brodeur and Luongo. What logic is this based on?
Brodeur is off to another phenomenal year, and Luongo is going to be a strong presence between the pipes all year.
I would've put Ward ahead of Fleury before the start of this season. But now, not a chance. Fleury is a hot goalie and should get the nod over Ward.
And Mason???? Huh?
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 14:06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by phlyguy90
you would take brad richards over mike richards? you need to get your head checked.
Really??
Let's take a look at Brad's Richard's resume for a second.
Stanley Cup Champion?? Check
Conn Smythe Winner?? Check
Point a Game Playoff Performer?? Check
World Cup of Hockey Champion?? Check
Former Olympian?? Check
7 consecutive 50+ points season, 3-70+ point season, and a 90 point season?? Check
Lady Byng Winner?? Check
I don't know what your expectations are, but I'm liking that resume myself. And I'd like to compare Mike Richard's resume to that. I bet it's not even close, specifically in the hardware department.
I have them both on my taxi squad. And I personally like the way Brad Richard's plays better. Something about never watching Brad Richard's try to decapitate another players. Call me a fool, but I like players that can play the game not only at a high level, but very cleanly as well. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 11/16/2009 14:21:21 |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 14:17:08
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| Gretzkey's resume is even better but i doubt he'll make the cut right now the better player is mike richards |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 14:28:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
Gretzkey's resume is even better but i doubt he'll make the cut right now the better player is mike richards
Right now?? Meaning this season?? Mike Richard's is better how??
Brad has 2 fewer goals, 6 more assists for 4 more points. He is ahead in +/- by one, has fewer PP goals but the same number of PP points and 1 less PK point. Shots are nearly the same with Mike having the slight edge in shooting %. Brad has only 3 hits to Mike 22. They are both about the same size and wieght.
So how is that a better player?? Some would argue that Mike's linemates are a step up on Brad's. Dallas has one more point in the standings due to their 6 OTL. Both teams have the same goals for.
I dunno again. When I originally said that I would take one of the Richard's on my taxi squad and I didn't know which one, I was far from crazy. When you look at it objectively, they are closer than you think. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 14:33:52
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| Mike Richards is a captain and a leader and plays the style of hockey that mkaes him fit on the 3rd or 4th line of the national team. Brad Richards plays a more offensive and is less likely to throw a hit and is a much higher liability in the defensive end. If youre gonna argue brad richards would play an offensive role on this team you're high. Ergo Mike RIchards is a better player and will better fill the role needed for the olympic roster |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 15:17:38
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Team Canada has enough captains and leaders right now, most, if not all of whom are better captains and leaders than Mike Richards. I'd take Brad's better stats and cleaner play over Mike at this point.
Exactly how is Brad Richards a defensive liability?
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 15:20:56
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| pay attention im sure you're better than that, the top 2 lines on that team are set, the bottom 2 are filled with guys who can check and score if need be Mike Richards is a guy who can kill penalties and shadow the other teams top guys he did it against the russians in the juniours, I will 1000 percent guarantee Brad Richards is not even in consideration for this team. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 15:21:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
Mike Richards is a captain and a leader and plays the style of hockey that mkaes him fit on the 3rd or 4th line of the national team. Brad Richards plays a more offensive and is less likely to throw a hit and is a much higher liability in the defensive end. If youre gonna argue brad richards would play an offensive role on this team you're high. Ergo Mike RIchards is a better player and will better fill the role needed for the olympic roster
I am actually far from high. If you could argue that Mike Richard's is a leader and Brad Richard's is not, I would question the clarity of your mind.
Although never having a "C", Brad Richards has been a leader on every team he has been on. Contray to that, if Jason Smith never got traded/retired, he would still be Captain of the Flyers. Furthermore, only because the Flyers are a decent organization and don't take away a C for no reason, I would suggest that Pronger would/should be the captain of that team.
A Captain by default does not make a leader.
Regardless, Mike Richards would not be a leader on team Canada anyway. That job lies squarely on the shoulders of Iginla, Neidermayer, Brodeur, and Pronger among others. Richards will be a junior on the team. He will be one of the guys in the dressing room listening, not talking.
And Brad Richards is a very good 2 way player. Always has been. I never said that either of them would be an offensive force on Team Canada. And just because a player hits people, doesn't mean anything about defense. Nick Lidstrom and Scott Neidermayer are two of the best defensive players in the past 15 years, and I can count on one hand how many hits they doll out a year combined.
I don't put either Richards's WAY ahead of the other. I perfer Brad because of his experience in winning and his ability to play hockey at a very high level and stay out of the box. Special teams may be the difference between the Gold and the Silver. The guy who can stay out of the box is as valuable as the guy who can kill the PK.
And both Richards on MY taxi sqaud at best. Chances are, Mike will make the team over Brad.
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Larrydavid
Top Prospect
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 17:30:34
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Brad Richards is a career minus 58
He has been a plus player only twice in his career.
Mike Richards has things that don't show up on the scoresheet. The second coming of Bobby Clarke |
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Guest4863
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Posted - 11/16/2009 : 18:01:12
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My final 3 would have to be Stamkos, Toews, and Morrow.
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Carter doesn't necessarily have a locked spot on the team. He had a breakout season last year, but he has been weak this year. Than again, who hasn't? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 19:02:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Larrydavid
Brad Richards is a career minus 58
He has been a plus player only twice in his career.
Mike Richards has things that don't show up on the scoresheet. The second coming of Bobby Clarke
With the exception of the Stanley Cup winning Lightning, Brad Richards has never played on a team that was anywhere near defensive. The fact that he is -58 in in nearly 700 games means??? Very little if anything. Rick Nash is -59 in his career. Do you think for a second that he is not being considered because of that??
In fact, Rick Nash has only 1-70+ point season in 6 NHL seasons, where Brad Richards has had 4-70+ point seasons, including 1-90+ point seasons in 10 seasons.
Considering this season, Richards in only 4 points behind Nash but is +10 ahead in +/-.
My points??? Don't even think for a second that I think Brad Richards should not make the team over Nash. But let's not bring up stats without doing some kind of comparison.
Again, shouting from the cheap seats, Brad Richards is very doubtful for the team. However, it is A LOT closer than first glance.
I don't envy Stevie Y until the are raising the Red Maple Leaf to the rafters. Until then, it is decisions like this that will be the edge of a sword. Pick a guy like Mike Richards and he tanks, Yzerman looks like a goat. Especially if guys like Penner and Brad Richards have great seasons. However, a guy like Penner or Brad Richards are just as likely as tanking. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 11/16/2009 21:06:08 |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 19:56:42
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| ya penner is way to big a gamble. for a role like his id take a dustin brown before id take penner neither will make the team though. |
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Guest7006
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Posted - 11/16/2009 : 20:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
ya penner is way to big a gamble. for a role like his id take a dustin brown before id take penner neither will make the team though.
You had a nice argument going there between the Richards - though I sided with Beans. Brad is just as solid a pick as Mike. I would pick Mike merely for the fact that he plays with for sandpaper than Brad. Other than that they are quite similar productivity wise.
But you lost my attention with this post. Why? Dustin Brown will be on the 2010 Olympic team. Why? He's american. His spot is pretty much locked on the US roster alongside Parise. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2009 : 20:50:58
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| touche haha definately thought he was canadian. i'll throw on the dunce cap for that one |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 00:37:17
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Excellent arguments over both of the Richards'
Beans, isn't it amazing, it's not too long ago that Brad would have been a "lock" on this team? Strange also how he's having a better season than Morrow, but Morrow seems to have a better shot (obviously because of the role he'd play, but still....)?
I still would go with the younger Richards as the fourth line center if for no other reason than what one of the posters said, that he'd fit that role (4th liner) better than Bread would? Brad's definitely not good enough at this point to make the top three lines imo..... |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 11/17/2009 : 12:06:35
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| I dont know about Penner, he is having a great season but he reminds me to much of Bertuzzi being on that 06 team. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 17:20:17
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A few things:
1) No way does Penner score 49 goals this year (the pace he is on according to Beans, didn't check). And no way does Penner play on the penalty kill for team Canada. I mean, we are talking about a player who in his career has 0 SHG and 0 SHA. Just because he is playing on the penalty kill right now while he's "hot", and while he's one of the better players for a piss-poor team . . . does not mean he's really fit for greatness. With no goals and no assists on the kill. Ever.
2) Mike Richards has, in 307 career games played, 19 SHG, 6 SHA. While he only has 1 short-handed assist so far this season, I think this speaks volumes about his capability in this area. Basically, Mike Richards is on an early, Gretzky-like pace in short handed goals, and he certainly has the skill.
Remember: Yzerman is looking for ROLE PLAYERS. This is why I am giving St.Louis a spot too, he is such a great penalty killer, and he has speed and obviously the skill to be on this team.
There is no way Yzerman leaves off Mike Richards. No. Way. And, in my opinion, no way Carter is left off either . . . too much talent, plays great on the penalty kill, speedy, good defence. Again, we don't need the big body.
3) The reason I changed my mind on a couple of players in the first place - remember, my first post on the last three players cited St,Louis, Doan and E.Staal - was because I asked myself these questions:
Will Yzerman choose a player 'on the rise', or a player in decline?
Will Yzerman choose a player that is tops in penalty killing or defensive play or checking, or just a one-dimensional scorer/playmaker?
What if Yzerman could have BOTH a player on the rise, who is tops in penalty killing and is a great checker, along with the prerequisite skill, with past results to prove it?
I would think he'd take that player. Hence, Smyth over Penner. Mike Richards over Morrow, Brad Richards or Lecavalier. And Carter has to be on this team as well for all these reasons.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 19:36:47
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This would be my Team Canada, if I were too choose.
1. Heatley - Crosby - Iginla
1. This line combines an excellent playmaker in Crosby, with one of the leagues top goal scorers (Heatley) and perhaps the NHL's best Power forward, in Iginla. With these three, goals are a must. You can also, if need be drop Heatley down to line two, with Thornton to add chemistry, and promote Lecavlier.
2. Lecavlier - Thornton - St. Luis
2. Again, I wanted to combine a goal scorer (Lecavlier,) with a top playmaker (Thornton) to produce hopefully, some solid setups. St. Luis also packs a goal scoring punch, with top winger speed to boot. Not to mention the chemistry St. Luis and Lecavlier will have from playing in TB togeather for such a period of time.
3. Nash - Getzlaf - Perry
3. This line is about size and the ability to play the puck. These three have the size to push their way to the front of the net, but do not lack skill in scoring or playmaking either.
4. Morrow - J. Staal - M. Richards
4. Line four would be my line to help me protect the lead at key points in the game. They are also the go-to guys for the Penalty Kill. That's their main reason for making my team. I like their grit and P-killing abilities. I firmly believe, Jordan Staal is one of the best penalty killers in the league today, i'd love to have him killing penalties on my team.
Defense:
Pronger - Neidermyer
Keith - Seabrook
Phaneuf - Weber
Goaltenders:
Brodeur, Luongo, Fleury.
Brodeur is the top goaltender in the NHL today, how can you not have him as your starter?
Then you have Luongo backing him up, as he will likely be the starter to come after Brodeurs Retirement. Fleury is the third man in, as he currently not only deserves it, but it will benefit us in the future as well. As he may be Luongo's backup when he takes over the #1 spot, and even be the starter of his own one day. :P
Irvine |
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Mikey Boy
Rookie
Canada
103 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 07:47:09
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Beans... this must be very frustrating for you because i hear what your saying...if the olympics were today then Penner would be considered. Everyone does seem to have trouble with that. However with that being said i still think it willonly be a consideration at anytime.
I have read all the posts in this topic and i think its safe to say that there are certain players that must be on this team or hockey fans in Canada will be all over Stevie and his commitee if they were to lose. and from these posts here are my conclusions
Crosby, Thornton, Nash, Heatley, Getzlaf, Iginla, Marleau
Pronger, Neidemeyer, Weber, Boyle
Brodeur, Luongo
So, i think it is safe to say that there are only 13 "locks" so far and the next month is very crucial in determining the rest of this team.
MP |
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Guest5382
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Posted - 11/18/2009 : 08:58:30
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| I like Pierre Lebrun's team on ESPN. i'd only make one change and even then it is nitpicky but I'd swap Marleau for Toews. Other than that, I agree with pretty much everyone there. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 09:40:49
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quote:
Originally posted by irvine
This would be my Team Canada, if I were too choose.
2. Lecavlier - Thornton - St. Luis
Lecavilier will be nowehere near vancouver and will be watching the games from his house in quebec. He's a fringe player at best and with his start has no chance of being selected.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2009 : 13:28:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
quote:
Originally posted by irvine
This would be my Team Canada, if I were too choose.
2. Lecavlier - Thornton - St. Luis
Lecavilier will be nowehere near vancouver and will be watching the games from his house in quebec. He's a fringe player at best and with his start has no chance of being selected.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
I never said he would. In fact, Marleau will be, Lecavlier likely will not be. I said if I were to pick, that'd be my team. What Steve Yzerman does, is up to Steve Yzerman.
Irvine |
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Topic |
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Final 3 spots on team Canada (forwards) 
