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Guest7691
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 Posted - 11/19/2009 : 19:03:13
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stole another point from toronto again with a high sticking call that was actually done by carolinas own player. how long will these calls continue?? and how about that goal for detroit vs. dallas the other night.
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie
165 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 19:21:15
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The reader is forced to assume a few things if your incoherent ramblings are going to construct any sort of logical argument.
1) Incorrectly punishing the wrong team for a high stick led to the leafs losing.
I'll give you this was a bad call- but do you really think the leafs lost because of this? They were not only up 3-0 on Carolina, but blew a 4-3 lead with less than 30 seconds left. Bad calls happen, losing huge leads consistently is the leaf's fault, not the refs.
2) The refs have something to gain by rigging the game for random teams.
By calling the refs 'scumbags' you are insinuating that they have some sort of agenda guided towards making poor calls. The reality is after every game the videotape is analyzed and the referees are held to very high standards. The non-goal in Detroit was fairly inexplicable, but this will be made very clear to the refs who committed the error. If you are a ref and want to get the higher-profile games (playoffs, finals, outdoor game, etc.) then you don't ever want your calls to be debated in the media.
3) Hockey refs suck at their jobs
By definition, any referee is subject to committing human error. Soccer is probably the worst for calls, followed closely by the NBA and NFL. All things equal, I think the NHL has done an admirable job since the increase from 1-2 refs. Bad calls are few and far between in the NHL, suck it up. |
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 19:21:31
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I hate when i see this. In no way did the ref decide the fate of the game. You are not going to win games when you let 5 in, even when you had the lead. The offense scored enough, the defense didnt do their job, story of the year in toronto. Why do people think the refs pick favorites and its a conspiracy against their team. Unfortunately, the refs are humans and are subject to make mistakes like everyone else. It sucks when it happens against your team, but it evens out eventually. Refs have the hardest job in sports, cause either way, half the people are going to hate you for any call. Relax and complain about something that the leafs can change, like crap goaltending or defense.
I Promise I didn't give her the STD, I'm not a sharing person. |
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Guest0577
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Posted - 11/19/2009 : 20:27:08
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| actually peter laviollette on sportcentre said this lost the leafs the game sooo...... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 20:50:34
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So........ I never knew Peter Laviolette had the final word on all things hockey.
Were the Leafs not up 3-0 after the first, 3-2 after the 2nd, and 4-2 with 12 minutes left in the 3rd??
So how can someone blame 4 goals allowed in 12 minutes on one penalty???
Sorry, I don't buy it. It may have been a bad call, but the Leafs retook the lead again after the penalty.
The Leafs lost the game, not the refs. From what I see on the box score anyway. |
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro
499 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 05:44:28
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No, no, Beans, if Peter Laviolette says it, its Gospel. 
The refs didn't steal the point from the Leafs. The Leafs gave it away. I
BTW, excellent points Hugh G. Rection. Very well put. |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 11/20/2009 : 07:03:23
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The Ian White phantom call became a non-factor when he scored to take the lead with 30 seconds left. If he didn't get that goal you could argue the refs helped Carolina tie the game.
But after the goal it was basically the same scenario as before the penalty. A one goal lead going into the last stages of the game. 4-3, 5-4 - same difference.
As for the loss. Once you get into a shootout with Jussi Jokinen on the opposing bench you're pretty much already down 1-0 before you start. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 08:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
So........ I never knew Peter Laviolette had the final word on all things hockey.
Were the Leafs not up 3-0 after the first, 3-2 after the 2nd, and 4-2 with 12 minutes left in the 3rd??
So how can someone blame 4 goals allowed in 12 minutes on one penalty???
Sorry, I don't buy it. It may have been a bad call, but the Leafs retook the lead again after the penalty.
The Leafs lost the game, not the refs. From what I see on the box score anyway.
Beans, you forgot UP 5-4 with 2 seconds left
I agree, it was a bad call, but in fairness to the human element, i can see how out of the corner of his eye he may have mistaken who's stick it was. This is similar to a guy getting called for a questionable goalie interference call. You know, one which negates a goal for his team, results in a penalty and then ends up with a PP goal at the other end? A 2 goal swing in some instances! Those calls are sometimes skewed as well, but that's the human element!
I know there's many more Leaf fans than Wings fans around, but i'm surprised no one was complaining about the May goal being called back as THAT was/is an example of a time where someone could actually throw out the "conspiracy theory" and not look quite so silly...... |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 08:45:57
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i dont want to blame the refs, the leafs did lose that game for themselves, but its not fair to let the refs off the hook completley either.
Whites stick was at his waist, i could see if it was up around his face, but the ref never even saw the play. He just called a penalty based on the carolinas players reaction. He cant call something you didnt see. The fact it was a 4 minute penalty didnt help either, but still i guess the leafs should have killed the penalty.
Also,
The leafs freaking scored in OT. The puck was loose in front of legace and the carolina player tried to tuck it into legaces pads, but put it into his own net. The whistle went a few seconds after the puck was CLEARLY in the net. Bulls***.
But still, like you guys said, the leafs blew wayyyy too many leads to blame this all on the refs. Man this has been a tough season.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 09:42:19
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| I don't blame the refs for the loss but I do blame them for all the missed calls and all the bad calls I've been seeing this year and it is frustrating me. This same call happened to Komisarek in a Dallas game last month when Ribeiro put on real good show of embellishment to make it look like he had been high sticked...he clearly wasn't...the Leafs lost that night too. Also in an Oilers game the other night Ethan Moreau took an elbow to the face and guess what...no call...he never returned. I don't know what the refs were watching but they were standing right there and made no signal so Stortini had to come to the rescue and of course got an instigator or roughing penalty for it. When are the refs going to held more accountable for their actions? There are some great refs, but there seems to be no consistency between all of them. |
Edited by - Gusteroni on 11/20/2009 10:12:42 |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 11/20/2009 : 10:00:33
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| The Komisarek one was for Ribeiro I think. |
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Guest9494
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Posted - 11/20/2009 : 10:14:51
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| actually the moreau elbow was a blessing in disguise with Moreau out for the rest of the game there was no chance of him taking a dumb penalty in the last 5 minutes to lose the Oilers the game |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 10:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9818
The Komisarek one was for Ribeiro I think.
Thanks for jogging my memory. Hard to remember when there are so many losses...I do remember the three wins though!!!
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season." |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 10:19:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9494
actually the moreau elbow was a blessing in disguise with Moreau out for the rest of the game there was no chance of him taking a dumb penalty in the last 5 minutes to lose the Oilers the game
He's not that bad. Moreau has played 21 games and has only 21 PIM and has a +/- of 0.
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season." |
Edited by - Gusteroni on 11/20/2009 10:24:51 |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 11:45:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9494
actually the moreau elbow was a blessing in disguise with Moreau out for the rest of the game there was no chance of him taking a dumb penalty in the last 5 minutes to lose the Oilers the game
actually the user signing on as a guest was a blessing in disguise with the user's anonymity for the rest of the readers there was no chance of him being mistaken for a member in this post to lose credibility with this drivel. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 13:07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
i dont want to blame the refs, the leafs did lose that game for themselves, but its not fair to let the refs off the hook completley either.
Whites stick was at his waist, i could see if it was up around his face, but the ref never even saw the play. He just called a penalty based on the carolinas players reaction. He cant call something you didnt see. The fact it was a 4 minute penalty didnt help either, but still i guess the leafs should have killed the penalty.
Also,
The leafs freaking scored in OT. The puck was loose in front of legace and the carolina player tried to tuck it into legaces pads, but put it into his own net. The whistle went a few seconds after the puck was CLEARLY in the net. Bulls***.
But still, like you guys said, the leafs blew wayyyy too many leads to blame this all on the refs. Man this has been a tough season.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Yeah right after the Brad May no goal, it was obvious that they should change the Intent to blow the whistle rule and next thing you know the night right after it happens in OT against our Leafs. So frustrating.
I was also really frustrated about the Leafs to blow a 3-0 lead, a 4-2 lead and then a 5-4 lead with 29 seconds left. And Ron Wilson's got it all wrong, either his system is just not working with the players he has or nobody as any trust in him.
The wingers should cover better the point and sacrifice their bodies to block shots. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 13:22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
i dont want to blame the refs, the leafs did lose that game for themselves, but its not fair to let the refs off the hook completley either.
Whites stick was at his waist, i could see if it was up around his face, but the ref never even saw the play. He just called a penalty based on the carolinas players reaction. He cant call something you didnt see. The fact it was a 4 minute penalty didnt help either, but still i guess the leafs should have killed the penalty.
Also,
The leafs freaking scored in OT. The puck was loose in front of legace and the carolina player tried to tuck it into legaces pads, but put it into his own net. The whistle went a few seconds after the puck was CLEARLY in the net. Bulls***.
But still, like you guys said, the leafs blew wayyyy too many leads to blame this all on the refs. Man this has been a tough season.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Yeah right after the Brad May no goal, it was obvious that they should change the Intent to blow the whistle rule and next thing you know the night right after it happens in OT against our Leafs. So frustrating.
I was also really frustrated about the Leafs to blow a 3-0 lead, a 4-2 lead and then a 5-4 lead with 29 seconds left. And Ron Wilson's got it all wrong, either his system is just not working with the players he has or nobody as any trust in him.
The wingers should cover better the point and sacrifice their bodies to block shots.
Youre right, there were at least 2 goals that a leaf could have layed down to block a shot but chose not to.
Anywyas, the leafs can not panic here. they have alot of young players and they need to be given time to grow as players.
Besides, its not like it is easy to trade anymore, so there wont be a quick fix coming I dont think. The leafs need to just try to get as much out of the guys they have right now and hope they can sign 1 or 2 good UFAs to augment the core they plan on keeping. With at least 4 good players on the marlies and Kadri in london they will have some help next year.
Obviously they will probably still struggle, but its obvious that this will not be fixed easily and it will probably take another couple years before they see the playoffs.
The only thing you can do is hope the coaching staff gets through to the young players and they continue to work hard and eventually results will come. Its not easy but what choice do you have as a fan?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 14:54:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Also,
The leafs freaking scored in OT. The puck was loose in front of legace and the carolina player tried to tuck it into legaces pads, but put it into his own net. The whistle went a few seconds after the puck was CLEARLY in the net. Bulls***.
Matt, i kinda agree with you here. Personally, i thought the whistle should have gone when Legace covered the puck with his glove. I never saw a good replay, but i thought he had it. However, the ref didn't blow the whistle at that point. Then, the puck appears and the dman tries to kick it to Legace to cover up and it slides in. I don't see how the ref could claim to have had "intent" to blow the play dead. If i recall correctly, his whistle was up at his mouth due to the scramble (most ref's are ready to blow the whistle assuming the goalie will cover it?) and he had ample time to blow it? I dunno, never really heard the explanation, but i was surprised to see the Leafs not argue it at all???
Either way, i think you and the rest of the Leaf fans do realize that they should have won this game after the leads they had. However, that's hockey and they're bound to get some breaks of their own sooner or later? |
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Guest5940
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Posted - 11/20/2009 : 16:43:02
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| They keep giving points t dallas first mick magoo f$%#ed it up when they disallowed the oilers goal that would have given hem at least a point, then they disallowed that detriot one |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 17:36:13
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Wow, 2 games in the past 100ish??
I just love how when a team gets a bad call against them, everyone complains. Yet no one says anything if the refs miss a call against the other team.
The law of averages work out. There are good calls and bad calls for each team in every game. Some of them lead to goals.
As my old coach used to tell me, you can play against the refs and lose or play against the other team and have a chance to win.
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Kirby
Top Prospect
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2009 : 22:22:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Wow, 2 games in the past 100ish??
I just love how when a team gets a bad call against them, everyone complains. Yet no one says anything if the refs miss a call against the other team.
The law of averages work out. There are good calls and bad calls for each team in every game. Some of them lead to goals.
As my old coach used to tell me, you can play against the refs and lose or play against the other team and have a chance to win.
Perfect example of this is the Megough blown call against the Oilers, then Stefan missing the open net and the Oilers tied it. It wasnt a call or nothing but it was justice in a sense.
I skate where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.-Wayne Gretzky |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2009 : 07:31:34
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Refs blowing calls is not new, there seems to be a rash lately with missed goals, missed penalties, phantom penalties, blown offisides, and whatever else.
News flash - this is not a new thing.
For Leaf fans, remember the Gretzky high stick on Gilmour when Kerry Fraser missed the call. The rule in those days would have required Gretzky to be kicked out the game. Instead he goes on to have one hell of a game.
Remember the Brett Hull in the crease stanley cup winner!
It happens, but I agree the intent to blow the whistle rule is pathetic, I was taught as young ref that unless the whistle blows the play is still good.
That being said, I believe the Brad May goal and the Leaf goal in OT should have counted! |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2009 : 08:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Refs blowing calls is not new, there seems to be a rash lately with missed goals, missed penalties, phantom penalties, blown offisides, and whatever else.
News flash - this is not a new thing.
For Leaf fans, remember the Gretzky high stick on Gilmour when Kerry Fraser missed the call. The rule in those days would have required Gretzky to be kicked out the game. Instead he goes on to have one hell of a game.
Remember the Brett Hull in the crease stanley cup winner!
It happens, but I agree the intent to blow the whistle rule is pathetic, I was taught as young ref that unless the whistle blows the play is still good.
That being said, I believe the Brad May goal and the Leaf goal in OT should have counted!
Yeah exactly, I know a lot of bad calls happen and will keep happening. Because nobody's perfect. But like you said the play should be going until you hear the whistle.
I hate this rule of the intent to blow the whistle. And it's not just because it happened to the Leafs, it's because it's a stupid rule. I hated it when it happened to Detroit last year in the playoffs. And when it happened to Brad May I thought wow this is beyond rediculous, the refs are now just taking advantage of the rule, and then I posted here saying they should take it off before another embarassing moment happens, and the night after it happens to the Leafs. So it's not because it happen to my team that I hate it, it's just because I find this rule stupid and right now not clear. They say there's a grey zone, But the grey zone is now friggin huge as it can last up to four seconds. Take off this rule now, or fix it. |
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Guest6615
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Posted - 11/21/2009 : 09:47:28
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It wasn't just the phantom Ian White call... (a double minor and I believe Carolina scored on BOTH the minor penalties which enabled "the comeback")... but technically, Leafs won it in Overtime, but the goal wasn't counted. That puck was IN. Not making excuses for a pathetic Leaf team, but this was just not their night. You gotta admit it's disheartening when they play their guts out... and bad reffing calls erase that hard work.
Let's face it... when things aren't going your way... everything seems to be going against you. And the Leafs are having a tough go of it. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2009 : 11:31:27
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| Me, i don't actually mind the "intent to blow the whistle" rule. i understand it. They can't have the whistle in their mouth the whole time. However, the Brad May goal, with or without this rule, should have counted. I think some people are ignoring the fact that even with this rule in effect, it should have counted!!! I still find myself shocked that they didn't overturn the call on this? It was in on the original shot, so how does the ref claim he intended to blow the play dead before it went in? Was there a freakin' penalty or something?? Makes absolutely no sense! |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2009 : 06:11:04
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| Sorry Alex, until the whistle blows, the game goes on. This rule leaves to much open to the refs descretion. He can say "oh I meant to blow the whistle" any time he wants. It is an easy way out for the refs. I know the rule has existed for a long time, but I have disagreed with it for long time. Should be cut and dry, The play is live until the whistle blows. |
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Guest5940
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Posted - 11/22/2009 : 11:39:11
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| the oilers ripped off again, twice in one game first with horcoffs goal, then that penalty on moreau that led to a goal |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2009 : 12:13:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5940
the oilers ripped off again, twice in one game first with horcoffs goal, then that penalty on moreau that led to a goal
I hope you are not refering to the Saturday Night Hawk vs Oilers game?? Firstly, the Horcoff goal not counting was the dead right play. The Clock froze at 0.01 seconds and the clock definately expired before Horcoff hammers in the shot. I don't recall the Moreau penalty specifically. However, the Oilers were out played in every single facit of the game. Offense, defense, special teams, goaltending. Hell, the Hawks filled their water bottles faster than the Oilers.
A 5-1 spanking had nothing to do with the Refs. Not at all. |
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the referees are *********** 
