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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
 Posted - 11/30/2009 : 12:48:59
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Poll Question:
There are probably about 30 contracts we could put up here just wondering what you think the worst current NHL contract is?
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 12:49:58
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I went with DiPietro because of the ridiculous term of the contract and the injury problems he has had.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 13:15:45
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The thing is that you can't insure against injuries. If Dipeitro was healthy, a legitimiate #1 goalie for $4.5 million is very reasonable.
I say, with clear bias, it's Horcoff. The guy's BEST full season was 73. He has one season where he played only 1/2 the games and averaged a PPG. He is not a #1 centre on at least 20 if not 25 teams in the league today, yet he is getting #1 centre money.
He is on pace for a killer 37 points this season and is one of the worst +/- players on his team and in the bottom 25% in the league.
Nothing like handcuffing yourself with this kind of deal.
On the other hand, $4.25 million for Penner is looking pretty good today isn't it?? |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 13:20:34
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The point is though signing anyone for 15 years is ridiculous regardless of who it is and the very fact it is ridiculous is because you can't ensure there wont be any injuries. NHL teams buy insurance for their salaries but still to assume someone will play at an elite level worth a 15 year contract at the begining of their career is ridiculous.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 15:17:27
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To me It was hard to chose between Brière, Redden and Campbell. And Huet should be on that list.
Edit : and Gomez
So many ridiculous contracts. |
Edited by - Leafs81 on 11/30/2009 15:18:28 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 16:01:45
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My pick was Campbell, although he does bring some skill to the table. However, it's just way too much money!
I'm surprised Gomez isn't getting more votes, but then you have to consider, if a contract is so bad (see Campbell), it's tough to trade a guy! So, you can thank Gainey for Gomez having so few votes i guess?
My runner's up were Horcoff and Drury. Horcoff, for exactly what Beans explained and Drury for the fact he's a number 3 center and that's a lot of dollars to pay your 3 guy!
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Guest2695
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Posted - 11/30/2009 : 16:23:29
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Vernon Wells
His baseball contract is so rediculous that even if he was playing hockey for the Leafs for free his contract would still be the most rediculous in North american sports. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2009 : 16:43:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
The point is though signing anyone for 15 years is ridiculous regardless of who it is and the very fact it is ridiculous is because you can't ensure there wont be any injuries. NHL teams buy insurance for their salaries but still to assume someone will play at an elite level worth a 15 year contract at the begining of their career is ridiculous.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
If that is the case, where is the Ovechkin, Mike Richards, Johan Franzen, Henrik Zetterberg, Vinny Lecavalier, or Luongo deals???
To me, it's not an issue of length if a player is injured. That's in the hand of a great power than even I! To me, the length is an issue when a player is not producing but playing.
And anyone who thinks that a team signs a player to a 10-15 year contract and expects them to be at an elite level later in the deal needs to buy some ocean front propery in Arizona. That's not the reason of the long contract. Not at all.
The length of the contract serves two purposes. The first is that the team can have a superstar for a lower cap hit for the first part of the deal. Then, the team can dump the salary later in the deal.
For example, Luongo's cap his is around $5.3 million/season starting next year. But he gets $10 million first year, $6.16 for the next 7 years, then $3.3million, $1.6million, $1million, $1 million.
So by the time he hits 38 and in his twilight, the Canucks write a cheque for $3.5 million and rock a cap hit for $3.5 mil for 4 years. Or wait until he's 39, write the cheque for $1.8 million and walk away then.
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Guest0939
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Posted - 11/30/2009 : 17:42:49
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So many bad contracts.... Hard to say which one is the worst, but I think you can eliminate a few from being "worst" with some logic.
Let's start with the Defense. Timonen is a pretty steady defenceman, over $6 million, yes overpaid, but not moreso then others. Campbell at $7 m, definately overpaid but still I think Redden's is worse at $6.5m considering production, age, etc. Finger, Finger, Finger. An absolute senior moment for an otherwise productive house cleaning by interim GM period for Fletcher. However Finger's still young enough and the size of the other contracts blows this one away. McCabe's contract was also ridiculous for a one tool defensive liability. Lastly Meszaros is proving not to be living up to his big contract, but he still has time.
So in order of badness for the D I'd go:
Redden, Campbell, McCabe, Finger, Meszaros, Timonen
Now the forwards are where GM's really go cuckoo. And you mentioned some good ones. But I'll start by excluding guys who could potentially live up to their contracts: Lecavalier, Havlat (also only $5 million a year ages 28-33, not bad), Smyth (doing ok in LA, plus intangibles), and even Horcoff who at 30 still has a chance for redemption. One last one in this category is Vanek, but again he has time. That leaves Legwand, Hossa, Drury, Briere and Gomez. I think Briere may be a band-aid but could be a great piece if his body ever held it together. Legwand is the Finger of forward deals, but at only 4.5 mil a year not at the top of the worst list. All the rest are the brutal in terms of length and cost, but in order of how productive the players will be combined with cap hit I'd say Hossa's deal is better than Drury's and Gomez's. Oh yeah... Jason Blake... Terrible. So the final list is:
Gomez/Drury (tied), Blake, Hossa, Legwand, Briere, Horcoff, Lecavalier, Smyth, Vanek, Havlat.
For Goalies it has to be DiPietro, but if he's healthy the majority of his career going forward, I'll say it wasn't a bad deal. $4.5m for a goalie might be a bargain in 6 years.
So Overall I think it's got to be between Redden, Drury and Gomez (funny how these were all Ranger deals). And for the sake of the poll I'll give it to the $6.5 million dollar a year contract for Wade Redden... clap clap clap congrats Wade. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 01:05:12
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Beans....great post, couldn't agree more. These "front loaded" deals are a lot better than a lot of people realize.
As a 'Nucks fan, i like the Luongo deal. Could it be better for the team? Sure, but there's give and take in these situations. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 06:10:32
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Lots of those are bad contracts but I think out of all of them it would have to be Rick Diepetro. Now that is a BAD contract.
HABS RULE!!
brentrock2 |
Edited by - brentrock2 on 12/01/2009 06:11:30 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 12/01/2009 : 06:34:20
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WORSE CONTRACT: Mr. FINGER !!!!
Before you Leaf fans start jumping on me....
Out of all the names on the list, you have to agree that at least most of them had decent numbers before the contracts were signed. Even Rick DiPietro!!! Even Gomez!!
And when numbers aren't there for the names on the list - these are excellent "team" players, team "leaders". Smyth, Luongo, Drury, etc...
What the heck did Finger have... his best was 19 points in 72 games....!!!!!!
And no, Gainey doesn't win here because Burke enherited Finger. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 10:02:57
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While I do agree Redden is overpaid currently, he played his way on another team into that contract. No one lives up to there contract in New York, not even Jagr. When he was offered that contract it was more money than any other offer, but I'll bet other offers would have been close.
I'd think Horcoff's contract is probably the most untradable and hardest to have assumed. To get a buyer on that one the Oilers will have to include a high rounded draft and a current roster player at good contract value. |
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Guest4687
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Posted - 12/01/2009 : 10:15:26
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| i voted for finger, he 's the only guy listed i've never heard of. |
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Guest9494
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Posted - 12/01/2009 : 22:38:26
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| campbell easy |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 07:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
The point is though signing anyone for 15 years is ridiculous regardless of who it is and the very fact it is ridiculous is because you can't ensure there wont be any injuries. NHL teams buy insurance for their salaries but still to assume someone will play at an elite level worth a 15 year contract at the begining of their career is ridiculous.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem
If that is the case, where is the Ovechkin, Mike Richards, Johan Franzen, Henrik Zetterberg, Vinny Lecavalier, or Luongo deals???
To me, it's not an issue of length if a player is injured. That's in the hand of a great power than even I! To me, the length is an issue when a player is not producing but playing.
And anyone who thinks that a team signs a player to a 10-15 year contract and expects them to be at an elite level later in the deal needs to buy some ocean front propery in Arizona. That's not the reason of the long contract. Not at all.
The length of the contract serves two purposes. The first is that the team can have a superstar for a lower cap hit for the first part of the deal. Then, the team can dump the salary later in the deal.
For example, Luongo's cap his is around $5.3 million/season starting next year. But he gets $10 million first year, $6.16 for the next 7 years, then $3.3million, $1.6million, $1million, $1 million.
So by the time he hits 38 and in his twilight, the Canucks write a cheque for $3.5 million and rock a cap hit for $3.5 mil for 4 years. Or wait until he's 39, write the cheque for $1.8 million and walk away then.
Well first off Lecaviler is on there so get your peepers checked and second off that would be the other button beans maybe you could petition the site to have unlimited poll options, I stated in the original post that there could probably be about 30 contracts on there so the way you should have addressed that was by choosing other and explaining yourself.
Moreover to take Hossa or Pronger's deal as an example the teams are assuming these guys will play into their 40's which is ridiculous and it's blatant abuse of the collective barganing agreement in my opinion. Look at the deal Marc Savard just signed he's making $500 000 in each of the final 2 years its ridiculous.
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 08:00:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
WORSE CONTRACT: Mr. FINGER !!!!
Before you Leaf fans start jumping on me....
Out of all the names on the list, you have to agree that at least most of them had decent numbers before the contracts were signed. Even Rick DiPietro!!! Even Gomez!!
And when numbers aren't there for the names on the list - these are excellent "team" players, team "leaders". Smyth, Luongo, Drury, etc...
What the heck did Finger have... his best was 19 points in 72 games....!!!!!!
And no, Gainey doesn't win here because Burke enherited Finger.
Agreed, Finger is a joke and when he was signed TSN's Bob Mckenzie reported the only other intrest in Finger was at 1.5 a year.
3-0 Leafs on centennial weekend .... Burke wins!
There's a lot of dirty old occ's around thats the problem |
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Guest9818
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Posted - 12/02/2009 : 10:36:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
Moreover to take Hossa or Pronger's deal as an example the teams are assuming these guys will play into their 40's which is ridiculous and it's blatant abuse of the collective barganing agreement in my opinion. Look at the deal Marc Savard just signed he's making $500 000 in each of the final 2 years its ridiculous.
I'm not sure if your stance against these types of contracts is on point with the topic. The topic is about bad contracts. Take Savard's this in not a bad contract, in fact it's probably the best contract signed (from a team's perspective) since Kaberle's. It's only a $4million dollar cap hit for a top 10-20 forward. They'll get him to the end of his productive years. You also seem to be assuming that they'll buy him out for sure when he's 38/39, but he may still be putting up some decent numbers or be a solid role player.
32 - $7million
33 - $7million
34 - $6.5 million
35 - $5 million
36 - $1.5 milion
37 - $.525million
38 - $.525 million
That looks pretty damn fair to me. Maybe even a good sized discount on those last couple years, given that guys like Recchi are making $1 mil at 41, Tkatchuk $2.15 mil at 37, Conroy $1 mil at 37, Knuble $2.8 mil at 36-7... I could go on.
It's not an abuse of the CBA, it's an oversight for sure on the league's part, but not an abuse, as there are no rules against these deals.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 11:07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9818
quote:
Originally posted by Tiller33
Moreover to take Hossa or Pronger's deal as an example the teams are assuming these guys will play into their 40's which is ridiculous and it's blatant abuse of the collective barganing agreement in my opinion. Look at the deal Marc Savard just signed he's making $500 000 in each of the final 2 years its ridiculous.
I'm not sure if your stance against these types of contracts is on point with the topic. The topic is about bad contracts. Take Savard's this in not a bad contract, in fact it's probably the best contract signed (from a team's perspective) since Kaberle's. It's only a $4million dollar cap hit for a top 10-20 forward. They'll get him to the end of his productive years. You also seem to be assuming that they'll buy him out for sure when he's 38/39, but he may still be putting up some decent numbers or be a solid role player.
32 - $7million
33 - $7million
34 - $6.5 million
35 - $5 million
36 - $1.5 milion
37 - $.525million
38 - $.525 million
That looks pretty damn fair to me. Maybe even a good sized discount on those last couple years, given that guys like Recchi are making $1 mil at 41, Tkatchuk $2.15 mil at 37, Conroy $1 mil at 37, Knuble $2.8 mil at 36-7... I could go on.
It's not an abuse of the CBA, it's an oversight for sure on the league's part, but not an abuse, as there are no rules against these deals.
My thinking is he could have gotten more for the final 3 years of the contract. Probably double what he asked for. Clearly Boston has finally given Savard the respect he deserves with the 1st few years of the contract. Its a shame he wont play for the Olympics. He is a good as some of the Untouchable names on the list and better than some of the so called role player names being bantered about. |
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Guest2622
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Posted - 12/02/2009 : 11:23:18
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| My personal favorite, even though it was bought out, was Mr. Yashin's contract. What Wang was thinking about when he signed off on that monstrosity is beyond me. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 11:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2622
My personal favorite, even though it was bought out, was Mr. Yashin's contract. What Wang was thinking about when he signed off on that monstrosity is beyond me.
The length was the worst part of the contract. Everybody knows you short term a guy like Yashin to keep him motivated. Adjusted post lockout the contract, outside of the length, wasn't to bad. Funny his being bought out and publicly saying he was considering going back to Ottawa. Not the brightest bulb. He was probably the example the Owners used to negotiate a reduction in pre-negotiated salaries league wide. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2009 : 16:51:38
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DiPeitro has the best contract. This guy is making $4.5 million per year to "rehab." He works out when he can and enjoys vacations with the family, while raking in the the doe.
Irvine |
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Guest6840
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Posted - 03/16/2010 : 21:41:39
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| Vanek has a ridiculous contract. |
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Topic |
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Worst Contracts 
