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Guest7144
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 Posted - 05/26/2007 : 11:44:49
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Often cited as 99's best game ever Dec 1981, a 7-5 win at home over the Flyers. Pete Peeters v. a 19 year old Fuhr. Sather v. Quinn behind the bench. A somnambulent crowd even though 99 is at 45 goals in game 39. 99 was just come off a 4 goal game in G38 v. Kings.
99 played on a line with Lumley and Semenko and was double shifted right from the start. Messier hardly got on with the second line with Anderson, though they were deadly when they did.
I watched the game carefully recently. Here are some thoughts:
1) The Chicken Swimmer
I recall the 8 year olds who when first learning to swim would keep one hand on the side of the pool and wait and wait and then let go for a few seconds, do a few strokes and then quickly come back to their spot.
Thats how 99 played this game. He actually spent almost all of his time at the right wing board. I"ll tell you where because it became laughable by the 10 minute mark - I didnt have to look for him when the play was anywhere in the Oilers side of the red line - he was standing plastered at the opposing blueline boards on the right wing. And I mean at the boards - like standing touching the boards. Many times, the actual right winger and 99 bumped into each other there and the winger woudnt know where to go - wasnt that his spot he was thinking...
As for protection - No ONE, I mean no one touched him, Cochrane got his elbow up a little just once. There were NUMEROUS instances when he could have been absolutely corked. I';ve never seen a player leave himself so helpless. He looked sadly out of place and almost like a level below the others in talent. And thats in a game where he scored 5 goals and 1 assist. Read on to find out how.
Why didnt he get corked? By teh Flyers no less? Well one answer is Semenk - who is roughky twice teh size of any player out there and very very quik on his skates perhaps faster than 99. The other is the crowd who would rouse itself up and bray loudly whenever anyone laid a stick or hand on 99.
And I never want to hear about 99's vision again, how he had eyes in the back ofhis head and could avoid checks. If he had eyes in the back of his head, they were staring into the 4th row of the seats most of the night.
99 occasionally skaked out when the traffic lessened to waive his stick at the back of a Flyer skating towards the Oilers blueline or to "forecheck" if the puck went deep. Both of these were a cruel joke to watch.
Defensive play? - forget it. A joke. He was directly responsible for numerous point blank chances by the Flyers right from where a centre shodul be instead of cruising to centre looking for a pass. Iincluding the 2 goals by the Flyers late in the third on the same shift. The second one was a slapshot by Fred Arthur, Flyers dman, who walked right up the ice where a center should be and slapped one in from the blueline (his only goal of the year). Appalling work.
Ridiculous, goal sucky play all night.
Its hard to tell by watching on tv - but I believe in a 5 goal 1 assit game, 99 came out of it a +1.
2) One move
Gertz only had one move - its this: he skates hard by teh right wing boards and wuockly cuts to the middle and shoots. He had ONE lousy move and it coudl be easily stopped. Only he scored twice with it - teh Fklyers absolutely refused to stand him up or let him go wide or slash at him. A nice slash on the wrist as he cut to the middle and he'd never have scored 100 goals in the NHL.
He never carried the puck like Orr or Lafleur or Mario - there No MOVES AT ALL. He just stood at the RW boards.
3) Goal Dangerous
Having said this, he was like the Rocket (well not really, but in thsi way), his eyes woudl light up from the blueline in and he became very very dangerous. No question very very dangerous.He was damn good with the puck near the net.
I wonder how he woudl have done against normal bodychecking.
Still made a lot of high risk plays and passes that resulted in turnovers though. That explains the most ESGA in history. Its clear.
4) Skating, shooting, passing
Her was still just 20 at the time and faster on his skates than I remembered. An dcut very well but of course he was free skating with no one hanging on to him. He dove a lot too and attracted a couple of penalties with the help of the thr crowd..
His shot semed very hard too, harder than most of the players out there including Leach.
His skating balance was tremendous. and he never was off balanace when shooting.
5) Record happy
He was on the ice in the last minute when it was 605 and agan didnt even try defensively. The Flyers almost tied it before with 3 seconds left he did The Move and put it in the open net past Barber.
He did not deserve teh assit he got as COffey and another passed it back and forth a nuerb of times - I dont knwo why 99 got that assit. Buit it was ofetn said (and recenlt in eth National POst in Canada) that no gaol was cord in Edonton in whcih they didnt try and give 99 an assist.
Also Fuhr was given an assist on 99's open net goal - which was a joke since he didnt come close to touching the puck
6) Flockie, Clarksie, Leach and the Flyers Defence
All I will say is that was a no name Flyers D that 99 touched up - Hoffmeyer, Arthur, Cochrane, Marsh, Watson (who scored 3 goalns 9 assist all year and whad only a couple of shifts) and Wilson.
Yech!
And finally - this post is dedicated to TCTits who wanted something new from me. There you go, titz. And also dedicated to Willus3 - keep up the search for Truth.
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Guest4462
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Posted - 05/26/2007 : 11:56:16
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| I've been following these boards for quite a while now, and I must say that this is the same load of crap that you alway preach Chooch. There is absolutely NOTHING new or enlightening here. What a waste the 2 minutes I took to read this garbage. |
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Guest0376
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Posted - 05/26/2007 : 12:05:14
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| I think Gretzky himself even admitted that the best game he ever played was Game 7 against the Leafs in the 1993 playoffs. |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 13:24:03
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| Sadly, the idea of this post piqued my interest because I am always up for an intelligent discussion or observation. It would have served the author better to have reported his/her..um...findings in a more unbiased, mature manner. This guest has urged me to go watch my tape of that game though. Interesting idea though, guest. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 13:41:10
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Wow, another poor attempt to bash Gretz out of the Best Ever spotlight. This is said to be his best game, but I know that Gretzky didn't play like that all the time. This was one game that he did that and it worked well for him. this could make for good discussion though.
When life gives you lemons throw them at the Ottawa Senators and their fans and hope it gets them in the eyes ;) |
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Guest5585
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Posted - 05/26/2007 : 17:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0376
I think Gretzky himself even admitted that the best game he ever played was Game 7 against the Leafs in the 1993 playoffs.
Yeak, I'll watch that game and let you know how "great" he was against Felix the Cat and other HoFers on that legendary Leafs 93 team. |
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Guest5585
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Posted - 05/26/2007 : 18:00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4462
I've been following these boards for quite a while now, and I must say that this is the same load of crap that you alway preach Chooch. There is absolutely NOTHING new or enlightening here. What a waste the 2 minutes I took to read this garbage.
Its new for TCTits. Any way , it confirmed what I knew all along.
I'm glad youre impressed by records. Thats why he set them. Keep buying into the legend.
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2007 : 20:20:08
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Now people, don't be so quick to dismiss chooch's observations. There a quite a few valid points to dissect.
For instance the one below. I remember my Grandmother who was an amazing woman and a knowledgeable hockey person, say the very thing Chooch is saying here. They'd give Gretzky an assist and she would flip her lid and say something like, that's ridiculous, he didn't even touch the puck on that play. She'd get quite vocal about it. And she was always right.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7144
He did not deserve teh assit he got as COffey and another passed it back and forth a nuerb of times - I dont knwo why 99 got that assit. Buit it was ofetn said (and recenlt in eth National POst in Canada) that no gaol was cord in Edonton in whcih they didnt try and give 99 an assist.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Guest4462
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Posted - 05/26/2007 : 21:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Now people, don't be so quick to dismiss chooch's observations. There a quite a few valid points to dissect.
For instance the one below. I remember my Grandmother who was an amazing woman and a knowledgeable hockey person, say the very thing Chooch is saying here. They'd give Gretzky an assist and she would flip her lid and say something like, that's ridiculous, he didn't even touch the puck on that play. She'd get quite vocal about it. And she was always right.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7144
He did not deserve teh assit he got as COffey and another passed it back and forth a nuerb of times - I dont knwo why 99 got that assit. Buit it was ofetn said (and recenlt in eth National POst in Canada) that no gaol was cord in Edonton in whcih they didnt try and give 99 an assist.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper"
ahhh... now there is a universal NHL conspiracy... EVERYONE was in on it! Yeah! that's it! Everyone was paid off! all the players were turning blind eyes... the media kept it low key... yeah!
Retards.... |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 00:42:27
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| You know, if they did it then, then they still do it today. Which means everyone's stats are ballooned. Oh, wait: every official, scorer ref, etc.. was soo in love with 99 that they wanted to render 60+ years of stats worthless to help out this one kid. Conspiracies.... |
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Guest9995
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Posted - 05/27/2007 : 15:16:28
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Gretzky calls game 7 against the Leafs in the 93 playoffs the best game he's played in the NHL, but not his best game ever. He has said since 1987 that his best game ever was game 2 vs. Russia in the 1987 Canada Cup, in which he didn't even score one goal. He did have 5 assists.
Was that Toronto team that great? Not really, but they were peaking at the right time, and they had a few very good to great players. Gilmour and Clarke were playing out of their minds. Why did Gretzky consider it his best NHL game (non international)? Because it was game 7, and it felt like he was playing against an entire country who were mostly cheering for Toronto (like it or not, outside of Quebec there are more Leaf fans than anyone else....I know, I live in Vancouver, and I have to put up with them! ;) ). He had to step up to the plate and deliver from more of an individual level than he ever had to in the past. The Kings had no business going to the finals, and without Gretzky's 40 playoff points that year they wouldn't have. And deliver, he did. 4 points, including a hattrick and the game winning goal.
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Guest7022
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Posted - 05/27/2007 : 17:48:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9995
Gretzky calls game 7 against the Leafs in the 93 playoffs the best game he's played in the NHL, but not his best game ever. He has said since 1987 that his best game ever was game 2 vs. Russia in the 1987 Canada Cup, in which he didn't even score one goal. He did have 5 assists.
Was that Toronto team that great? Not really, but they were peaking at the right time, and they had a few very good to great players. Gilmour and Clarke were playing out of their minds. Why did Gretzky consider it his best NHL game (non international)? Because it was game 7, and it felt like he was playing against an entire country who were mostly cheering for Toronto (like it or not, outside of Quebec there are more Leaf fans than anyone else....I know, I live in Vancouver, and I have to put up with them! ;) ). He had to step up to the plate and deliver from more of an individual level than he ever had to in the past. The Kings had no business going to the finals, and without Gretzky's 40 playoff points that year they wouldn't have. And deliver, he did. 4 points, including a hattrick and the game winning goal.
Was he a minus on the night? How many goals did the leafs score because he waved his stick for backchecking. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 10:55:59
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I will never deny the fact that in Gretzky's 5 goal game to get 50 in 39, he was all about the offense. So was everyone else playing with him that night. They all wanted for Gretzky to get that record, not just Wayne.
And what about the 38 games before that where he had 45 goals?? I guess all of those were him hanging out and centre ice as well??
And does anyone else think it's a little odd to characterize a 1400+ game career from this one game??
And finally, for all of you out there who say Gretkzy was all about the records and not a team player. Every interview I have ever seen or heard from players or coaches involved with Gretzky say the same thing. The thing that set him apart from everyone else was not his skills, but his work ethic. He was known to work harder in practice than anyone else. His team fed off of that, and most if not all of them called him nothing but the consumate team player.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 16:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I will never deny the fact that in Gretzky's 5 goal game to get 50 in 39, he was all about the offense. So was everyone else playing with him that night. They all wanted for Gretzky to get that record, not just Wayne.
And what about the 38 games before that where he had 45 goals?? I guess all of those were him hanging out and centre ice as well??
And does anyone else think it's a little odd to characterize a 1400+ game career from this one game??
And finally, for all of you out there who say Gretkzy was all about the records and not a team player. Every interview I have ever seen or heard from players or coaches involved with Gretzky say the same thing. The thing that set him apart from everyone else was not his skills, but his work ethic. He was known to work harder in practice than anyone else. His team fed off of that, and most if not all of them called him nothing but the consumate team player.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane??
So what is his Greatest Game that can actually stand up to scrutiny?
I am Ogopogo's bodyguard |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 18:35:54
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In your eyes Chooch, no game Gretzky ever played can stand up to your scrutiny. That was my point. It doesn't matter what aspect of his game is discussed, you have a negative opinion about it. If someone says he was great offensively, you say he hung out at centre ice. If someone says he was a great passer, you say it was because he was protected. If someone says he carried the puck well, you say he never scored end to end goals like other greats. Nothing that can be discussed is a positive in your eyes.
It's amazing that so many fans, coaches, and players have him in such a high regard. We all have to be wrong on that, hey??
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 18:42:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
In your eyes Chooch, no game Gretzky ever played can stand up to your scrutiny. That was my point. It doesn't matter what aspect of his game is discussed, you have a negative opinion about it. If someone says he was great offensively, you say he hung out at centre ice. If someone says he was a great passer, you say it was because he was protected. If someone says he carried the puck well, you say he never scored end to end goals like other greats. Nothing that can be discussed is a positive in your eyes.
It's amazing that so many fans, coaches, and players have him in such a high regard. We all have to be wrong on that, hey??
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane??
99 is a powerful guy in the game; they want to kiss ass.
So come on....name a Great Game of Gretz.
I am Ogopogo's bodyguard |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 07:35:21
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Ya, that's right. Everyone kisses his ass.
Ya know what Chooch, I am not even going to waste my time. Doesn't matter what I say here.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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Guest7418
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Posted - 05/29/2007 : 09:00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ya, that's right. Everyone kisses his ass.
Ya know what Chooch, I am not even going to waste my time. Doesn't matter what I say here.
Finally some sanity Beans!  Good on you.. There really isnt any point... |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 09:01:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7418
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ya, that's right. Everyone kisses his ass.
Ya know what Chooch, I am not even going to waste my time. Doesn't matter what I say here.
Finally some sanity Beans! Good on you.. There really isnt any point...
I'm in complete agreement 7418.  |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 13:11:40
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| I'm going to lay it out one more time for everyone. If a post is going to get you so frustrated that you have to hurl insults at the poster, then consider ignoring it. And finally, do not make personal attacks as they only serve to make you look bad and ultimately they will be removed. |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 14:27:37
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quote:
Originally posted by admin
I'm going to lay it out one more time for everyone. If a post is going to get you so frustrated that you have to hurl insults at the poster, then consider ignoring it. And finally, do not make personal attacks as they only serve to make you look bad and ultimately they will be removed.
Sometimes it's quite impossible for a rebuttle to look as bad as the rebuttled. |
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Guest9995
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Posted - 05/29/2007 : 19:31:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7022
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9995
Gretzky calls game 7 against the Leafs in the 93 playoffs the best game he's played in the NHL, but not his best game ever. He has said since 1987 that his best game ever was game 2 vs. Russia in the 1987 Canada Cup, in which he didn't even score one goal. He did have 5 assists.
Was that Toronto team that great? Not really, but they were peaking at the right time, and they had a few very good to great players. Gilmour and Clarke were playing out of their minds. Why did Gretzky consider it his best NHL game (non international)? Because it was game 7, and it felt like he was playing against an entire country who were mostly cheering for Toronto (like it or not, outside of Quebec there are more Leaf fans than anyone else....I know, I live in Vancouver, and I have to put up with them! ;) ). He had to step up to the plate and deliver from more of an individual level than he ever had to in the past. The Kings had no business going to the finals, and without Gretzky's 40 playoff points that year they wouldn't have. And deliver, he did. 4 points, including a hattrick and the game winning goal.
Was he a minus on the night? How many goals did the leafs score because he waved his stick for backchecking.
Ah, you have to love selective memory when bias takes over! Gretzky finished with a +2 on the night. To give you a little perspective, Doug Gilmour, who is thought to be a great two way player and "complete hockey player" was a -1 that game. Looks like it was Gilmour, not Gretzky who needed to do more backchecking. There again, who needs to backcheck when you are busy dismantling the Leafs' defensive systems and scoring at will? |
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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 17:49:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9995
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7022
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9995
Gretzky calls game 7 against the Leafs in the 93 playoffs the best game he's played in the NHL, but not his best game ever. He has said since 1987 that his best game ever was game 2 vs. Russia in the 1987 Canada Cup, in which he didn't even score one goal. He did have 5 assists.
Was that Toronto team that great? Not really, but they were peaking at the right time, and they had a few very good to great players. Gilmour and Clarke were playing out of their minds. Why did Gretzky consider it his best NHL game (non international)? Because it was game 7, and it felt like he was playing against an entire country who were mostly cheering for Toronto (like it or not, outside of Quebec there are more Leaf fans than anyone else....I know, I live in Vancouver, and I have to put up with them! ;) ). He had to step up to the plate and deliver from more of an individual level than he ever had to in the past. The Kings had no business going to the finals, and without Gretzky's 40 playoff points that year they wouldn't have. And deliver, he did. 4 points, including a hattrick and the game winning goal.
Was he a minus on the night? How many goals did the leafs score because he waved his stick for backchecking.
Ah, you have to love selective memory when bias takes over! Gretzky finished with a +2 on the night. To give you a little perspective, Doug Gilmour, who is thought to be a great two way player and "complete hockey player" was a -1 that game. Looks like it was Gilmour, not Gretzky who needed to do more backchecking. There again, who needs to backcheck when you are busy dismantling the Leafs' defensive systems and scoring at will?
I didnt know. I will watch the game again and give you guys an honest critique.
And Beans I was very complimentary to 99 if you read my post which said that 99 was very dangerous around the net etc. I dont hate anyone.
I am Ogopogo's bodyguard |
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