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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
 Posted - 03/19/2010 : 09:50:12
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The Canucks have resigned Ryan Kesler for 6 years! Can't find the terms of the deal though...
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 09:57:54
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Here's a clip from Yahoo sports:
Canucks sign F Kesler to 6-year contract extension
VANCOUVER, British Columbia (AP)—Ryan Kesler(notes) has signed a six-year contract extension with the Vancouver Canucks.
The 25-year-old forward due to become a restricted free agent on July 1 is now under contract through the 2015-16 season. The Canucks didn’t reveal financial details when they announced the deal on Friday.
Kesler is having a career season with 21 goals and 45 assists in 71 games.
He has spent his entire career in Vancouver after being drafted 23rd overall in 2003.
The U.S. Olympian has 86 goals and 206 points in 391 NHL games.
He was a runner-up for the Selke Trophy as the league’s top defensive forward last season.
Well, if he really hates Canada, Canadians or anything like it, he sure shows it in a funny way, signing in a Canadian city???
As for the argument, you'd love him if he was on your favorite team (rebuttal to those who can't stand him), it looks unlikely we'll find out anytime soon if that's true! 
Regardless of the beating he takes on this forum, it's a great signing for the Canucks and likely a very well deserved raise for Kesler! |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 10:42:59
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People are taking it a little far if they think he hates Canadians based on his strong desire to beat the Canadian team in the Olympics...
Supposedly a 5 million cap hit for each year, so around what it should be I think. I've gotta say it - Gillis is doing a great job. He's signing his players at reasonable numbers, no insane contracts (maybe Luongo's is though) and he isn't emptying out the farm for short term gain either.
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baumer
Top Prospect
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 11:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by just1n
The Canucks have resigned Ryan Kesler for 6 years! Can't find the terms of the deal though...
Terms of the deal are 6 years at 5 million per. I get what Kesler brings to the table every game. Very good two way player but is that really worth 5 million a year? In my mind not at all. He now makes a million less than the twins. I don't want to upset any Canuck fans but they need help on the blue line more than anything else. I am amazed that Gillis couldn't work deal like the long term one he gave Luongo. Same amount of money, lengthen the deal and save yourself the cap hit every year. |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 11:38:10
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I don't think you can have everyone on your team signed for 12 years. The Sedin's deal is only 5 years...
Worth 5 mil? He would get more than that as a free agent, easy. |
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baumer
Top Prospect
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 11:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by just1n
I don't think you can have everyone on your team signed for 12 years. The Sedin's deal is only 5 years...
Worth 5 mil? He would get more than that as a free agent, easy.
You can sign guys for as long as you want. Pronger is signed for 9 years, Briere signed for the same amount of time and Mike Richards signed for 12 years all for Philly. There is nothing in the CBA that says anything about the length of contracts. My point was that Mike Gillis should have worked something out. Whether it be the length of the deal or the amount of money. Whats wrong with a deal for 3 years at 5 mil per? The Canucks blue line needs help. Unless Bieksa can find his stride again, which really doesn't look likely, then Ehrhoff is really the only legitimate top 4 d man they have.
Salo is aging terribly, O Brien is a bruiser but definitely not a top 4 defenceman, Edler has a great offensive upside, but do you really think he can last through out the playoffs? Mitchell and Alberts are decent options at best. With only one prime puck moving defenseman I would have figured Gillis would have worked something cheaper with Kesler and tried to swing a deal, either a trade or signing for another d man.
You honestly think he would get more than 5 mil easily in free agency? That would mean he's in the same category as Datsyuk as he makes 6.5, Mike Richards who makes just under 6 mil a year and Ryan Getzlaf who makes 5.3 a year. Those are premier centre men in the league and Ryan Kesler is not in their league at all. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 12:06:06
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Not a chance he gets $5 million as a UFA!!C'mon people, think it through with your head, not with your heart.
Let's at a look at some other forwards between $5.3-$4.5 million shall we:
Cory Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Jason Pominville, Phil Kessel, Martin St. Louis, Marian Hossa, Jeff Carter, Brian Gionta, Mike Riberio, Martin Havlat, Daniel Alfredsson, Patrice Bergeron, Shane Done, Martin Erat, Tim Connolly.
$5 million dollars a season is elite level money and Kesler is simply not elite.
I take every single one of these guys over Kesler. I mean, sure. He's having a solid season and he brings something to the table. But I liken this to a Horcoff type deal. Way, way, way over priced and unless he is playing with talent, he is no better than an average 2nd liner or a great 3rd liner.
To Alex's weak shot, Kesler is one of my least favorite players even if he is an Oiler. I don't like him on or off the ice and the crest on his jersey does not change that. Not in the least.
At least I am safe knowing that the Oilers do not sign or keep tools in their line up for long.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 03/19/2010 12:14:55 |
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baumer
Top Prospect
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 12:13:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Not a chance he gets $5 million as a UFA!!C'mon people, think it through with your head, not with your heart.
Let's at a look at some other forwards between $5.3-$4.5 million shall we:
Cory Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Jason Pominville, Phil Kessel, Martin St. Louis, Marian Hossa, Jeff Carter, Brian Gionta, Mike Riberio, Martin Havlat, Daniel Alfredsson, Patrice Bergeron, Shane Done, Martin Erat, Tim Connolly.
$5 million dollars a season is elite level money and Kesler is simply not elite.
I take every single one of these guys over Kesler. I mean, sure. He's having a solid season and he brings something to the table. But I liken this to a Horcoff type deal. Way, way, way over priced and unless he is playing with talent, he is no better than a average 2nd liner or a great 3rd liner.
To Alex's weak shot, Kesler is one of my least favorite players even if he is an Oiler. I don't like him on or off the ice and the crest on his jersey does not change that. Not in the least.
At least I am safe knowing that the Oilers do not sign or keep tools in their line up for long.
Thank you Beans. This is a massive over payment in my mind....Jason Blake anyone? |
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie
165 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 12:15:10
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Actually Beans, looking at that list I'd certainly take Kesler over Erat, Pominville, Gionta and perhaps Connolly since he's an injury case. After the season and the Olympics Kesler has had he would certainly get at least $5 a year as a UFA. To be honest he was one of the top three most effective Team USA forwards, in my opinion. He plays well two-ways, gets under people's skin (including Beans', apparently) and has that 'sandpaper' quality GM's long for.
If Van made a mistake its not offering him one of those ridiculous 10 year deals where they give him the same money but the cap hit is reduced. It is a bit of a loophole in the system and GM's should take advantage of it to sign young stars while they still can. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 12:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection
Actually Beans, looking at that list I'd certainly take Kesler over Erat, Pominville, Gionta and perhaps Connolly since he's an injury case. After the season and the Olympics Kesler has had he would certainly get at least $5 a year as a UFA. To be honest he was one of the top three most effective Team USA forwards, in my opinion. He plays well two-ways, gets under people's skin (including Beans', apparently) and has that 'sandpaper' quality GM's long for.
If Van made a mistake its not offering him one of those ridiculous 10 year deals where they give him the same money but the cap hit is reduced. It is a bit of a loophole in the system and GM's should take advantage of it to sign young stars while they still can.
That is why you and I are not GM's. Firstly, one would expect a player on a team of the best of the best of the best to perform.
Secondly, no player gets $5 million based on a 2 week tourney. Thirdly, Pominville and Connelly are both far superior player to Kesler. Both have proven to be PPG players regardless of who they play with. Erat may be on his way down but Gionta is also a 40 goal scorer.
As I said, $5 million is elite level money, and Kesler just isn't elite level in my books.
And sandpaper quality?? Morrow and Doan have sandpaper quality. Kelser has D-Bag quality. Huge difference. |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 12:30:48
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Baumer, I didn't mean that isn't actually possible to sign multiple players to super long deals, I just don't think it's a particularly good tactic for a GM to have too many players locked up for too long. Even a deal this long can end up being sour - the Blackhawks with Huet and Campbell is a good example.
I don't doubt at all that he would fetch in the 5 mil/year range as a free agent, although I'm unsure of what the market will be like this year.
Beans, what do you think he's worth? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 12:44:53
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I think Kesler would have gotten a 5m/year offersheet in the offseason, and more than one. I also think he would have gotten offers at more than 5m. A lot of you seem to not like Kesler for a variety of reasons, but look objectively at what he brings to the table:
- increasing point totals in his last 3 years, and with 66 pts in 71 games this year, is nearly a ppg.
- plays even strength, power play, and kills penalties. Of his points this year, only a third are on the PP, so he is a very capable scorer even strength as well. Those of us that see him on a regular basis know that he is one of the premier penalty killers in the league.
- physical when he has to be - 66 pim this year so far, will fight when he has to. Not afraid to go into dirty areas to get the puck.
- is 25 years old. We have him locked up for the next 6 years, arguably these should be the prime years of his career.
As for some of the comparisons:
- Datsyuk - I believe his contract has a home town discount built in. If he went UFA, he would certainly command more than 6.5 a year.
- Mike Richards - he definitely took less money in exchange for a long term deal. I think any player in the NHL would choose 6m/year for 13 years over 8m/year for 4 years.
- Getzlaf - this was his first signing after his rookie contract. What do you think he would command as a UFA today? My guess is 7.5 per year - which is probably what he'll get in his next contract.
- Beans list - I would take 3 of the players on your list over Kesler, were they available (Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, possibly Riberio). Alfie takes a hometown discount to stay in OTT, everyone knows he will retire there. Hossa and Havlat are injury prone, I would not give them any deal more than a year. Kessel I might take, although I don't know if he can PK very well but he can score. The rest, I would rather have Kesler. And as for the 3 I would take, although I think in a UFA situation today they would command more than 5m/year on a multiyear deal. To put Horcoff and Kesler into the same category of player is laughable.
Kesler is a prime asset, and other teams know it (Phili tried a qualifier and tried to trade for him, other teams have certainly inquired this year). I was pretty worried that we were not going to get him signed this year, and then wait for the ridiculous RFA offers that came streaming in that we then had to match.
Baumer - point taken on the d, the Canucks need to think about it off-season. With Mitchell and Salo as UFA's (and Mitchell currently injured with the dreaded concussion), some changes are likely. Fortunately we have cap room to do it.
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Guest0935
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:09:09
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He would easily command over $5M in free agency. Look at the offer sheets Vanek and Penner got. Mike Richards cap hit is $5.75M and Getzlaf/Perry's is $5.325M. Kesler has as many or more points than all of them this year and is far superior in the faceoff circle than any of them.
Beans, I like you but please don't let your hatred of a player cloud your objectivity. Kesler is most definitely worth $5M+ in the open market. |
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Guest4274
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:10:01
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Kesler has 66 pts so far this season. He's end up in the 75-80 point rang. He's 25 years old and has improved significantly every year of his career. He's one of the best defensive players in the league. He plays with the type of intensity that lifts a team. Anyone who thinks this is a bad signing either hates the Canucks, doesn't watch the Canucks. This is a great signing.
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nux-suk
Top Prospect
41 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:21:34
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| I watch them, I hate them, and you can have him. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:26:03
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In a perfect world I think Kesler slots in at around 4Mil, but Im not really surprised to see that he got 5mil. Hes a big fan favorite in vancity, is in the top 10 in scoring for centermen and plays a solid defensive game. Although he has douchebag qualities, he seems to be an important part of that canucks team and they are having a solid season. I can see why you would want to keep that group together, even if you have to overpay by a mil or so.
I could also see his performance at the olympics playing a role, but that could jsut be optics. GMs shouldnt put alot of stock into a 2 week tournament when it comes to contract negotiations but it did show that Kesler could perform at a high level while on a big stage.
Im just surprised that Gilles hasnt file a tampering charge against the leafs claiming that Burke tried to sign him yet.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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nux-suk
Top Prospect
41 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:31:39
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| Ya maybe they will sign Demitra next for 100 million because he played awesome in the Olympics. |
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Guest0959
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:41:32
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Hey Beans, aren't you the guy who tells everyone to look up their stats first? To do their research?
Pominville's best year was 80 pts in 82 games. The year Buffalo made it to the Conference finals. Other than that one year, he's never made it above 68 pts. Harder a ppg.
Connolly's best year is this year, with 62 pts in 69 games. Which is actually BEHIND Kesler's pace. His next best year? 55 pts in 05-06. Hardly a "proven" ppg player.
Erat's best year. 57 pts in 68 games, while being a minus. The next year he had 57 pts in 76 games. NOT as good.
Gionta's best year, 89 in 82. Hey look, your first true ppg player! But that was in 05-06, and it is only one of two years where he has reached the 60 point plateau. TWO years.
Doan's best years are 78 in 80, and 73 in 82. He is on the tail end of a front loaded contract, and is now making in the $4 mil range. Congradulations, you got one right.
Alfy, Kessel, St Louis, Hossa, Carter, Getzlalf, Perry, Ribeiro, Havlat, and Bergeron ALL make more than Kesler's $5 mil. Every one of them. Personally, I'd rather have Kes than a few of them, but regardless, they make more money and most deserve it, so fine, they DO belong in a different category.
Kesler's last three years: 37 in 80, 59 in 82, and 66 in 71. Great numbers on the SECOND line. Selke finalist last year, likely a nomination coming this year too. Silver medal in the Olympics. #2 on the team in faceoffs. And as you so lovingly put it, he has those great "d-bag" (see sandpaper and grit) qualities that GM's love.
You may not like him, but you can at least respect the truth. He is not Shawn Horcoff. And as bitter as the Blue and Gold have made you this year, take your angry out on the links, not on the playoff caliber teams, and playoff caliber GMs. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 13:48:43
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quote:
In a perfect world I think Kesler slots in at around 4Mil, but Im not really surprised to see that he got 5mil. Hes a big fan favorite in vancity, is in the top 10 in scoring for centermen and plays a solid defensive game. Although he has douchebag qualities, he seems to be an important part of that canucks team and they are having a solid season. I can see why you would want to keep that group together, even if you have to overpay by a mil or so.
I would bet my next paycheque that Burke would have been near the front of the line to "overpay" for Kesler as an RFA. And that line would have probably been 10 GM's deep.
By definition, you're only overpaying if no one else is willing to pay that amount. |
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Guest0935
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 14:26:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
In a perfect world I think Kesler slots in at around 4Mil, but Im not really surprised to see that he got 5mil. Hes a big fan favorite in vancity, is in the top 10 in scoring for centermen and plays a solid defensive game. Although he has douchebag qualities, he seems to be an important part of that canucks team and they are having a solid season. I can see why you would want to keep that group together, even if you have to overpay by a mil or so.
Overpaid is Jeff Finger. Kesler's contract is right in line based on market comparables. |
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baumer
Top Prospect
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 14:28:04
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quote:
Originally posted by just1n
Baumer, I didn't mean that isn't actually possible to sign multiple players to super long deals, I just don't think it's a particularly good tactic for a GM to have too many players locked up for too long. Even a deal this long can end up being sour - the Blackhawks with Huet and Campbell is a good example.
I don't doubt at all that he would fetch in the 5 mil/year range as a free agent, although I'm unsure of what the market will be like this year.
Beans, what do you think he's worth?
I definitely will not argue that the Hawks shot themselves in the foot with those contracts, but my idea of a "good" long term deal if there is one would be Marc Savard or Chris Pronger. They are very shady deals but if they are allowed then why not? They could have signed Kesler for say 10 years and 40 mil and break it down like this:
Years 1-5 at 6 mil per
Years 6-10 at 2 mil per
That way if possible he can be moved after the first 5 years and with the core the Canucks have now they seem to be set to be contenders but what happens when the Sedin's contracts are up and they want 8 mil a year? Or Burrows when he comes to his senses and wants more than 2.5? Or the prospects they have, which seem to be decent, come off their entry level deals and Gillis can't afford to sign them? It seems to me that they have somewhat handcuffed themselves in the future with this deal. Then again its just my opinion. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 14:43:56
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At first I thought yeah this might be a little bit too much considering they already have the Sedins and Luongo. But when I saw your list Beans, I thought hey Kesler is right up there with those guys and better then some of them, so he deserves that kind of money as much as many of those. Sure their is some pretty good deals out there, but some players signs lower to stay on their team. Maybe he should earn 3.5 to 4.5 million but many many NHL players are overpaid.
Kesler is a great two way center, plays with grit, add secondary scoring, kills penalties, every other team hates him, but they love him in Vancouver. so good signing for Vancouver. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 15:33:26
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WOW!!! I've just read through these comments and can't believe some of doodoo i've read!! I'm gonna have to sit on this and comment later otherwise my post will prob be all over the map! Too many comments to respond/reply to!
I would like to throw a HUGE thanks out to guest 0959 for doing the research that i immediately saw myself spending quality minutes on. Thanks to you guest, i don't need to spend my time on those numbers.
Beans, as someone stated, just cuz you hate a guy, you really shouldn't let it cloud your opinion of a deal like this. I immediately picked out a few guys on your list who i find it laughable to say are better than Kesler as a hockey player. You lose a ton of credibility around here IMO if you start trying to convince us and yourself for that matter that a guy like Erat is more valuable that Kesler. Absolutely laughable.
Oh, oh, i'm already starting to ramble.........better run, i'll respond more later as i'm starting to get worked up!
I will say this though.....i don't think it's a steal by any means for the Canucks, and perhaps they maybe could have / should have gottena bit of a hometown discount but i think he'd have been in the 4.5-5 mill range on an offer sheet so i think it's a fair signing, and an important one for the Canucks....
More later...... |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 16:03:44
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Kesler -- 6 Years @ $5.00 Mil per year.
At a glance, it seems like he's being overpaid. It seems high for a guy you'd place on the 3rd, perhaps 2nd line.
But when you consider in all factors regarding Kesler, I'm not going to say $5 Mil is far fetched.
He plays a gritty style of hockey, doesn't mind getting in the high traffic areas, agitates, has some speed and ultimately, he can put the puck in the net. He has shown progression of the course of the past three seasons, and is having a career year. Most players (if not all) get a good raise, when having a career year on contract year.
The guy can kill penalties, plays a defensive style of offense, can play the powerplay and basically play any role given, and do it fairly well.
I'd say $5 Million is a fair salary, for a guy you can use in any situation you need to.
Irvine/prez. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 16:15:35
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Seriously, you can say I lose credibility all you want and it means completely zero to me. I have nothing to prove to you and if you think for even one second that your lack of faith is important, that is what one should call laughable.
You want to hear laughable, the fact some 'fan' has the gall to compare Ryan Kesler to Mike Richards or Paval Datsuyk. Or the fellow who said that Havlat and Hossa are injury prone so that means Kesler is better. I mean, are you serious?? Kesler does not belong in the same phrase as Hossa!! If we are talking about laughable let's call a spade a spade.
As far as the guest that stated what I thought he would be worth. Firstly, as an RFA, he would at best go to arbitartion. There have been a grand total of 10 offer sheets since 1996 in the NHL. 2 of them by the Oilers in one off season. So the guy would said he would get one or two offers is way off his rocker. Secondly, if he did go to arbitration, he would be compared to like players. So let's do that. Let's take a look at a list of players, around the same age, producing the same amount. Not just this season, but the past 2-3 seasons.
Mikko Koivu-$3.25 million
Travis Zajac-$3.888 million
Nik Antropov(maybe out of the age range) - $4.062 million
Patrick Sharp-$3.9 million
Antoine Vermette-$3.750 million
Loui Erriksson - $4.267 million
As you can see, these guys are very much in Kesler's league. Let's be honest. Is Kesler a 1st line players??? Nope. If you look through the 30 teams in the NHL today, if you add Kesler to every team, does he automatically become that teams #1 centre?? Maybe on a few, but very few like 2-3 tops. Further to that, does he become the 2nd line centre on any team in the NHL. Ok, maybe 20 out of he 30. So we can comfortable say that he is in the top teir of the 2nd line centres in the league.
Now, how many 2nd line centres in the league are making $5 million??? Very few.
The Canucks overpaid by at least a million a year, and depending on what your person opinion is, maybe a bit more than that.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 03/19/2010 17:03:34 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 16:27:45
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quote:
I definitely will not argue that the Hawks shot themselves in the foot with those contracts, but my idea of a "good" long term deal if there is one would be Marc Savard or Chris Pronger. They are very shady deals but if they are allowed then why not? They could have signed Kesler for say 10 years and 40 mil and break it down like this:
Years 1-5 at 6 mil per
Years 6-10 at 2 mil per
That kind of deal structure does not work for 25 year olds that plan to sign another contract after this one is done. Why would Kesler lock himself up for 10 years @ 4million per year, knowing that he'd be playing for 2m per year in the last 5 of them, during some of his prime years.
That sort of contract only works with end-of-life contracts - ie, long enough that the player will finish their career with the team. Luongo, Pronger, Hossa all fit that category. I don't know the details of Richards contract in Philly - it is a lifetime deal but I think the yearly pay is roughly even over the lifetime. In those deals you structure it in such a way that they get as much money up front as they can, with full knowledge that they'll probably forgo the last few years and retire.
quote:
That way if possible he can be moved after the first 5 years and with the core the Canucks have now they seem to be set to be contenders but what happens when the Sedin's contracts are up and they want 8 mil a year? Or Burrows when he comes to his senses and wants more than 2.5? Or the prospects they have, which seem to be decent, come off their entry level deals and Gillis can't afford to sign them? It seems to me that they have somewhat handcuffed themselves in the future with this deal. Then again its just my opinion.
The Sedin's are an interesting issue, there was a fair amount of press about the situation last spring when they were headed to UFA. Based on stats alone, they are probably worth 7.5-8M per year each. But, everyone knows that they are most valuable when together, so teams looking to plunk down that kind of money would only consider it if they could get both. What team can afford 2 x 8M for forwards, and still have enough left to build a decent team around them? By being joined at the hip, they likely hamper their individual ability to sign giant contracts. 6M/year each is probably the max they'll be able to get (at least at today's cap), and if a team were willing to pay more, I'd have to wonder what the chances of success for that team was.
Burrows seems like a steal, but really, you could put a pylon on the same line a the Sedin's and it would score once in a while. All Canucks fans remember the Anson Carter debacle - 25 goals with the Sedin's does not mean you're a great player and can score 25 goals with anyone.
I don't think the Canucks are handcuffed at all. Rather, they have built a very solid core of players, with which they can now build around. Look at all the top tier teams in the NHL right now, they all have a similar structure - get 4 or 5 guys that you want to go deep with, sign them long term, and then build around them. For the Canucks so far, that is Luongo/Kesler/Burrows/Sedins. My only worry is that we haven't got that core dman yet. Erhoff is a keeper, but I'd really like to see them lock up Mitchell longer term (assuming he comes back from the concussion), and a moderately offensive dman as well. We'll see what happens in the offseason. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 16:52:50
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Now, I just want to reply quickly to the fellow challenging my numbers. Firstly, in many cases you are right. However, I don't get how you can dismiss something for no reason.
For example, Pominville's 80 points in 82 games is close enough to a PPG player, where Kesler never has been.Connolley was a very close to a PPG player two injury season. Just because he was injured, does not mean he did not average a PPG in the games he played.
Martin Erat, in his 5th NHL season had 16 goals and 48 assists and was +16 in just 68 games(Younger than Kesler today). Kesler had 26 goals and 33 assists and was +8 in 82 games. The season he got nominated for the Selke.
How is that not a close comparison. Erat had better numbers in fewer games on a worse team??
Laughable??
Now, I admit that I dislike the guy, but my logic is not impacted by that very much at all .$5+ million players are the elite. There are 22 other centres in the NHL today making $5 million or more, meaning he is getting paid more than 8-#1 centres in the NHL. He's not a #1 centre on more than a few teams.
I stand firm that he is overpaid by around $1 million a season. He's not an elite centre man in the NHL today.
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Guest0935
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 17:26:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Now, I admit that I dislike the guy, but my logic is not impacted by that very much at all .$5+ million players are the elite. There are 22 other centres in the NHL today making $5 million or more, meaning he is getting paid more than 8-#1 centres in the NHL. He's not a #1 centre on more than a few teams.
And Kesler is 21st overall in league scoring playing on the 2nd line. And he has more points than Datsyuk, Koivu, Zajac, Antropov, Sharp, Vermette and Erikson.
Kesler is close to a PPG player this year and Pominville hasn't even come close since he hit 80 points.
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Martin Erat, in his 5th NHL season had 16 goals and 48 assists and was +16 in just 68 games(Younger than Kesler today). Kesler had 26 goals and 33 assists and was +8 in 82 games. The season he got nominated for the Selke.
How is that not a close comparison. Erat had better numbers in fewer games on a worse team??
Erat, who had 16 goals and 41 (not 48) assists in his 5th year. He had better numbers PPG wise in fewer games on a BETTER team. That was the year Nashville had 51 wins and when even guys like Legwand could score. BTW, Erat and Legwand are making $5.25M and $5M respectively this season. Kesler has 16 points less than the BOTH of them combined this year.
The fact of the matter is that Erat has never gotten above 57 points in a season (and isn't likely to this year neither) whereas Kesler has bested that total for this season and last season.
We could argue about Kesler's true worth forever, but I'm confident that he'll earn every penny of this contract (much to your chagrin). |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 17:37:31
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Well here's the deal. If he BECOMES a PPG player and the Nucks have succes with him as part of their core(ie, past the 2nd round of the playoffs and eventually make a final) than I will be wrong. Absolutely wrong.
However, if he continues to be a 60-70 point player and the Canucks continue to win divisions but not make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, he's overpaid.
Based on what he has done and what he is doing, over paid. Based on his potential to be a PPG player, sure, money well spent.
Only time will tell. |
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Statman
Rookie
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 17:59:23
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| Take it from someone who watches this guy game in and game out, he is worth it. If you are not someone who lives in Vancouver and sees all the Canuck games, don't even bother. Kesler is measured on more than just points, although his production does seem to increase every year, but it's his two-play that makes him the player he is. Many of the names that have been thrown out in comparison are just scorers, not defensive guys, and that list about players who earn less with the Eriksson's, Sharp's and Koivu's of the league (and the rest) is more of a who's who of guys that need contract updates because they should be getting paid in what is now the Kesler range. |
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Guest6840
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 18:30:13
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| He is an Amazing second liner no doubt yet i think think 5 year 20 million$ deal would be more suitable. |
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Guest9494
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Posted - 03/19/2010 : 18:56:57
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| I'd trade horcoff and a first rounder for kesler anyday |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2010 : 22:54:32
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Actually, being a Vancouver fan makes you lose objectivity. When the Oilers signed Pisani, Horcoff, et al after 06 Cup Run, I thought it was a good idea. Pfffffffffttt! Was I wrong.
Now, Stratman mentioned that "Kesler's two-way play makes him the player he is" reminds of a bunch of bad contracts the Oilers had and have of their books: Torres, Pisani, Moreau, Horcoff. All great defensive players, but most of them shined only for a time (some will argue if at all) offensively.
And, you're right stratman, I haven't watched too many Vancouver games, but 'nucks fans will be looking at this contract with rose-coloured glasses for sure.
So, the Kesler contract will only be good if he lives up to the offensive end of his game. Face it, that's how to win the big bucks as a forward. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 00:14:02
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Beans:
quote:
You want to hear laughable, the fact some 'fan' has the gall to compare Ryan Kesler to Mike Richards or Paval Datsuyk. Or the fellow who said that Havlat and Hossa are injury prone so that means Kesler is better. I mean, are you serious?? Kesler does not belong in the same phrase as Hossa!! If we are talking about laughable let's call a spade a spade.
First, I did not initiate comparison of Kesler to Richards or Datsyuk - Baumer did a few posts in. I was simply responding to the financial comparisons. IMO both Richards and Datsyuk would command 7+M per year were they UFA today, and I agree that they are not in the same league as Kesler. I'm pretty sure no Canuck fan would suggest otherwise - I would take either over Kesler at 5M per year.
Second, and again, I did not say that Kesler is better than Hossa or Havlat - I simply said I would not sign them to long term deals due to past injuries. Further, both of them are wingers, so comparing a centre is not really productive. But I would not sign either to a term longer than 1 year. If you would rather take the ambulance players over Kesler, so be it.
The only laughable thing in this thread is your obvious hate-on for Kesler.
quote:
So let's do that. Let's take a look at a list of players, around the same age, producing the same amount. Not just this season, but the past 2-3 seasons.
Mikko Koivu-$3.25 million
Travis Zajac-$3.888 million
Nik Antropov(maybe out of the age range) - $4.062 million
Patrick Sharp-$3.9 million
Antoine Vermette-$3.750 million
Loui Erriksson - $4.267 million
Lets have an even closer look:
Koivu - pretty good comparison, similar stats over the last 3 years, although Kesler is slightly higher point wise and +/-. Plays PP and PK. Koivu's current contract started in 2007 (in a year where he scored 23 pts), it is now 2010. How much do you think he'll sign for next year when he is a UFA? 5M/year? More?
Zajac - another good comparison, similar stats and growth in stats over the last couple of years - his real breakout year was last year. While his cap hit is 3.888/year, his contract (which was signed 2 years ago, when he wasn't scoring 60 pts a year) actually calls for a salary next year of 3.5M, and by the last year (2012/13) he'll be at 4.8M.
Antropov - thanks for the laugh. Antropov has proven that he's an inconsistent forward good for 55-60 points per year. I would not pay him 5M/year, and neither should anyone else. No comparison.
Sharp - another good comparison, I would actually consider Kesler to be closer to Sharp than anyone else you mentioned. He won't score as much as Kesler (even on an offensively gifted team like the Hawks), but he's good for 60-65/year. Great 2 way player that plays PP and PK, can get dirty if he has to. I like him. Sharp is in year 2 of his 4 year deal, and I believe that he took a bit of a hometown discount to stay in Chicago (argue if you wish). What would Sharp have commanded as a UFA a day before the Kesler signing?
Vermette - really? REALLY??? He's having his "breakout year" this year, and he's got 10 less points than Kesler. Before this season, a great defensive forward with little offensive upside. I like him, but not as a Kesler replacement
Eriksson - yep, similar to Kesler, although not quite as many points. I'm also not sure about his grittiness, don't watch too many Dallas games. His contract is 6yr/25M, so close to Kesler's. For comparison its a tossup - Kesler @ 5m or Eriksson @ 4.2m, I'd take either at that amount.
quote:
Now, I admit that I dislike the guy, but my logic is not impacted by that very much at all .$5+ million players are the elite. There are 22 other centres in the NHL today making $5 million or more, meaning he is getting paid more than 8-#1 centres in the NHL. He's not a #1 centre on more than a few teams.
Thats a pretty arbitrary argument - as someone mentioned, Kesler is 21st in league scoring, which means he's outscoring several of those "#1 centres". Players move up and down the lineup during the year - are we paying players for production, or for titles? |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 00:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Beans:
quote:
You want to hear laughable, the fact some 'fan' has the gall to compare Ryan Kesler to Mike Richards or Paval Datsuyk. Or the fellow who said that Havlat and Hossa are injury prone so that means Kesler is better. I mean, are you serious?? Kesler does not belong in the same phrase as Hossa!! If we are talking about laughable let's call a spade a spade.
First, I did not initiate comparison of Kesler to Richards or Datsyuk - Baumer did a few posts in. I was simply responding to the financial comparisons. IMO both Richards and Datsyuk would command 7+M per year were they UFA today, and I agree that they are not in the same league as Kesler. I'm pretty sure no Canuck fan would suggest otherwise - I would take either over Kesler at 5M per year.
Second, and again, I did not say that Kesler is better than Hossa or Havlat - I simply said I would not sign them to long term deals due to past injuries. Further, both of them are wingers, so comparing a centre is not really productive. But I would not sign either to a term longer than 1 year. If you would rather take the ambulance players over Kesler, so be it.
The only laughable thing in this thread is your obvious hate-on for Kesler.
quote:
So let's do that. Let's take a look at a list of players, around the same age, producing the same amount. Not just this season, but the past 2-3 seasons.
Mikko Koivu-$3.25 million
Travis Zajac-$3.888 million
Nik Antropov(maybe out of the age range) - $4.062 million
Patrick Sharp-$3.9 million
Antoine Vermette-$3.750 million
Loui Erriksson - $4.267 million
Lets have an even closer look:
Koivu - pretty good comparison, similar stats over the last 3 years, although Kesler is slightly higher point wise and +/-. Plays PP and PK. Koivu's current contract started in 2007 (in a year where he scored 23 pts), it is now 2010. How much do you think he'll sign for next year when he is a UFA? 5M/year? More?
Zajac - another good comparison, similar stats and growth in stats over the last couple of years - his real breakout year was last year. While his cap hit is 3.888/year, his contract (which was signed 2 years ago, when he wasn't scoring 60 pts a year) actually calls for a salary next year of 3.5M, and by the last year (2012/13) he'll be at 4.8M.
Antropov - thanks for the laugh. Antropov has proven that he's an inconsistent forward good for 55-60 points per year. I would not pay him 5M/year, and neither should anyone else. No comparison.
Sharp - another good comparison, I would actually consider Kesler to be closer to Sharp than anyone else you mentioned. He won't score as much as Kesler (even on an offensively gifted team like the Hawks), but he's good for 60-65/year. Great 2 way player that plays PP and PK, can get dirty if he has to. I like him. Sharp is in year 2 of his 4 year deal, and I believe that he took a bit of a hometown discount to stay in Chicago (argue if you wish). What would Sharp have commanded as a UFA a day before the Kesler signing?
Vermette - really? REALLY??? He's having his "breakout year" this year, and he's got 10 less points than Kesler. Before this season, a great defensive forward with little offensive upside. I like him, but not as a Kesler replacement
Eriksson - yep, similar to Kesler, although not quite as many points. I'm also not sure about his grittiness, don't watch too many Dallas games. His contract is 6yr/25M, so close to Kesler's. For comparison its a tossup - Kesler @ 5m or Eriksson @ 4.2m, I'd take either at that amount.
quote:
Now, I admit that I dislike the guy, but my logic is not impacted by that very much at all .$5+ million players are the elite. There are 22 other centres in the NHL today making $5 million or more, meaning he is getting paid more than 8-#1 centres in the NHL. He's not a #1 centre on more than a few teams.
Thats a pretty arbitrary argument - as someone mentioned, Kesler is 21st in league scoring, which means he's outscoring several of those "#1 centres". Players move up and down the lineup during the year - are we paying players for production, or for titles?
Thanks nuxfan for pointing out everything that I was about to. Alot of the players making similiar money to Kelser this year will receive pay increases in the next season or two. Perry and Getzlaf signed overly reasonable contracts with Anaheim so that the core of the team would stay together. I think that Kesler signing for $5 a year is fair and reasonable. He is a recent Selke nominee and has seen steady production in his stats. As a Habs fan, I would take Kesler over Gionta any day, and lets not even get started on Gomez. If I had a choice of Plekanec and Kesler for the same terms, I would find myself in a serious quandry, and I am a huge Plekanec fan.
You can hate on Kelser but he is a legitimate top 10 second line center in the league. I, recently, hated on Kelser in a topic recently over his character, but I would have him on any team that I cheered for. This being unlike how I felt for Tucker, Cooke, Chelios, Ruutu, Ludwig, C. Lemieux etc,etc,etc. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 01:52:35
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quote:
Originally posted by redneck76ca
You can hate on Kelser but he is a legitimate top 10 second line center in the league. I, recently, hated on Kelser in a topic recently over his character, but I would have him on any team that I cheered for. This being unlike how I felt for Tucker, Cooke, Chelios, Ruutu, Ludwig, C. Lemieux etc,etc,etc.
ALL HAIL REDNECK! Finally someone, relatively unbiased, who has the stones to admit what many simply won't!
There's now been a few level headed posts made that have pretty much summed up how i feel about what's been said in this thread!
Beans, i do have to ask what was meant by this:
quote:
To Alex's weak shot, Kesler is one of my least favorite players even if he is an Oiler. I don't like him on or off the ice and the crest on his jersey does not change that. Not in the least.
Where's the "weak shot"? All i said was "As for the argument, you'd love him if he was on your favorite team (rebuttal to those who can't stand him), it looks unlikely we'll find out anytime soon if that's true!" How in the world is that a "weak shot"? Unless i totally misunderstand what you mean, you seem to be very defensive about something???
As for the rest of your post, i'm shaking my head, even moreso with the rebuttal's that have been thrown out there. As has been noted, you've convieniently pointed out players like Getzlaf who are worth more than they are currently getting due to the circumstances and timing of when they signed their current contracts! Some were young and just blossoming (and will have to get similar significant raises when they're due up), others were on longer terms, etc. That's fine, make your argument look good. However, you've shot yourself in the foot with some of the guys you've listed! Gionta? Havlat? Erat? Connolly? AH, nevermind, it's not even worth it.  Let's move on...
Here's one of my favorite quotes!!!
quote:
Pominville and Connelly are both far superior player to Kesler
10 mins later
Whew! That was a good laugh attack.
Are you seriously trying to tell me you'd take either of those guys over Kesler? If so, one of two things has happened. You're opinion of him being a "dbag" has clouded your thinking and you simply can't get past your dislike for him or you know very little about the game of hockey. I will give you a little credit here, i think it's the former. Then again, Connolly did outscore Kesler and outplay him overall on the silver medal winning US Olympic team, no? WHAT? He wasn't picked for the team? Really???
quote:
Originally posted by BeansSeriously, you can say I lose credibility all you want and it means completely zero to me. I have nothing to prove to you and if you think for even one second that your lack of faith is important, that is what one should call laughable.
My faith is def not important, therefore no need to laugh. You are right, you need not prove anything to me. You're missing the point. You are a moderator, a "pickuphockey" hall of famer, usually a very good poster (imo), etc, but to say the things you have here in this thread simply doesn't do you any good. I think i can speak for more than just my self here in that your obvious hate for Kesler is shining through to the point of making you look bad. Sorry, i don't mean to offend you and i'm sure you can recover but have a read of what you've said and maybe you'll see the light?
As for Kesler in general, yup, he's going to be paid very high for a second line player (not on the 3rd and "sometimes 2nd" as one poster said). BUT, there are teams out there who he'd be playing top line for. How 'bout Jersey? Swap him and Zajac and i'd be willing to bet a lot of money that Kesler's numbers would improve significantly (alongside Parise) and Zajac's would go down (playing with Demitra and Raymond).
He's not a point a game guy, at least not yet, but for a second line player, he's pretty darn close. I compare him to Doan. Now, before anyone goes of on all things good that Doan has done and accomplished, i mean in their roles, their games, and the money they're making. Doan is making 4.5 AND that was signed back in 06 after Doan had seasons of 49, 58 and 68 points. See the similarities???
Bottom line is this, IMO he'd command min 4.5 and likely 5+ on the open market. While i'd have loved to see the Canucks get him at 4.5, i don't mind the deal they gave him. He's a vital part of this team as it moves forward.
Rambled enough....time to get some sleep.  |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 06:51:24
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You can all say as much as you want about my hate on for Kesler, I have given him the exact credit he deserves. I have said it three times now, so just for those that can't seem to see past the point to do anything other than make statements to dismiss player comparisions.
Ryan Kesler, today, is a great 2nd line centre on virtually every team in the NHL. I might even go as far as saying he is one of the top 4 or 5 2nd line centres in the league. Why is that so hard to grasp?? That is exactly what he is!!!
2nd line players don't get $5 million a season. 1st line players do. Kesler may become a 1st line players one day, but that's on potential. Based on what he has done to this point in his career, he's not worth $5 million.
I also think people are grossly missing the point of the player comparison. I am not here to say who is better or worse. All the players I listed are comparable one way or another. Either offensive, defensively, or both. For example, I would take Ryan Kesler(ugh, I just threw up in my mouth a little) over Nik Antropov every day that ends in a "Y." However, goal wise, they are comparable. Loui Eriksson is not as good defensively, however his offensive stats are similar. Antoine Vermette is not as good offensively, but is a great defensive player.
When an arbitrator is looking at an RFA player, they do not consider, "Well Kesler and Travis Zajac are close, but if you put Kesler on Zajac's line, he would do better." Arbitrators look at a group of players that are similar, what they are getting paid, and make a judgement. The players that one can unbiasedly compare to Ryan Kesler are in the $3.9 million - $5.0 million and not often do you see an arbitrator give the high range of the spectrum.
I admitted, that my bias has some impact, but not nearly as much as people are implying. Can anyone possibly think that their positive bias towards Kesler is impacting their vision.
Let's try one more player comparison.
Milan Michalek - Drafted same year. Pretty close to the same size (6'2", 202 for Kesler, 225 for Michalek). Up to today, Kesler has 391 games, 86 goals, 120 assist for 206 points and is +12. Michalek has 381 games, 113 goals, 135 assists, 248 points and is +38. Both have played on good teams their entire careers. Both are counted on as their teams primary PK players. Both get a little time on the PP.
Michalek signed a long term deal last year. He is gettin $4.333 million cap hit. That is in the range that Kesler should be in.
Patiently awaiting the next Cancuck fan to give me a reason why Kesler is better than Michalek. It's not a matter of if, but when. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/20/2010 07:23:33 |
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Guest2114
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Posted - 03/20/2010 : 08:43:57
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ahhh Beans but Michalek was drafted with higher offensive upside, and started his career on the Thorton line. Which has led to a higher point total so far. Take his stat line this year, playing with a less offensive team: 22/12/-11. Keep in mind when you do these comparison that outside of this year, the Canucks have been a defensive team. Also that Kesler only made the jump from 3rd liner to 2nd halfway through last season.
That being said, Michalek has never passed the 66 point plateau in a season. Kesler will this year. In fact, Michalek has only had one season above 60 points, and it was 4 years ago. Kesler has had one too, but it is this year, and has it has been previously mentioned, Kesler's PPG totals have gone up EVERY season he's been in the league.
A better comparison would be Mike Fisher. Fisher is a couple of years older, but they compare better because of their style of play. They're both defensive minded first, with offensive upside. They both play the PK, and are solid 2nd line centers.
However, Fisher's inconsistent production has led to stat totals of around 45-50 points so far. While Kesler on the other, again, has improved his PPG every season in the league.
Finally, they both make $5M/season.
(the numbers fellow) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 11:23:16
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Of course, Michalek can't possibly be a good comparison to Kelser. What was I thinking. I mean, size, speed, production, everything is very similar between the two at this point in their careers.
How could I possibly think that comparison would stand up.
Thanks for the Fisher comparsion.
Fisher makes $4.2 million a season cap hit.
Michalek makes $4.333 million a year cap hit.
So comparing Michalek offensively and Fisher defensively is fine.
Look at their salaries. Both are $750,000 a year less than Kesler, who quite simply is not head and shoulders above either.
(The other Numbers Guys) |
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Guest2247
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Posted - 03/20/2010 : 11:34:29
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| compared to most player salaries kesler is worth the money...good signing. as for hossa beans, i`d take kesler on my team ANYDAY before hossa, i dont care how much skill hossa has. players like kesler are worth their weight in gold come playoff time...unlike softies like hossa |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2010 : 11:58:04
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Beans....
quote:
Patiently awaiting the next Cancuck fan to give me a reason why Kesler is better than Michalek. It's not a matter of if, but when.
Well, i hope i didn't keep you waiting too long?
quote:
2nd line players don't get $5 million a season
Bos.....P. Bergeron 5mil the past 3 seasons, 5.75 next season cap hit 4.75
He's a center, so's Savard. One must assume Bergeron's the second line C, except maybe at times like now, when Savard's out?
NYR....O. Jokinen. 5.25 the past 2 and 5.5 this year. Or is Drury the second liner here? I could throw his numbers out there if you want?
Dal....B. Richards makes 7+, Ribiero makes 5. Both centers, do both play first line roles?
Det....Datsyuk and Z often play on separate lines. Very much like Forsberg and Sakic did back in the day.
Mtl...Gomez, Gionta and Cammy all make 5 or more! Yes, they all play together sometimes, but often one of them's a second liner.
NJ....Elias makes 6mil. He's a LW, so's Parise. I think Parise's the first liner, no?
Phi....Briere, Richards and Carter are all listed as C's. Even if they all play first line, that leaves Gagne to play line 2. Oh, and all 4 get 5+
Pitt...need i mention who their top 2 C's are or what they make?
*Please note, i'm not in any way saying Kesler is or isn't as good as these guys, just trying to show you that your statement isn't accurate. I could even argue a guy like Kariya is pretty much a second liner making 6 mil but i won't go there. Or, that guys like Lecavalier who is more or less the second liner there now thanks to Stamkos but i guess it could be argued that once Stamkos is up for renewal, they're highly unlikely to keep Lecavalier at those dollars, right?
quote:
I also think people are grossly missing the point of the player comparison. I am not here to say who is better or worse. All the players I listed are comparable one way or another. Either offensive, defensively, or both. For example, I would take Ryan Kesler(ugh, I just threw up in my mouth a little) over Nik Antropov every day that ends in a "Y." However, goal wise, they are comparable. Loui Eriksson is not as good defensively, however his offensive stats are similar. Antoine Vermette is not as good offensively, but is a great defensive player.
Read this quote again. It basically shows Kes is better than these guys when it comes to being an all around player. Similar to Antropov's goal total but better defensively. Same for Eriksson as far as similar offense. Vermette's the opposite of these two, you say his defense is comparable but his offense isn't. Sounds like Kesler's a more complete player to me? BTW, Vermette is a good defensive player but i'd say Kesler is a bit better than him at that part of the game as well. Show me any article where Vermette is mentioned as a top defensive forward in the league? Or how bout one with "Selke" in the same sentence as Vermette? Kes's offense is better, and Vermette plays with Nash and Huselius (who i know you like)? Oh, i know, we shouldn't say "what if so and so played with so and so....."
quote:
The players that one can unbiasedly compare to Ryan Kesler are in the $3.9 million - $5.0 million and not often do you see an arbitrator give the high range of the spectrum.
While i don't agree with your low number, do you not think maybe the Canucks knew the range that he'd likely be in? Hmmm, maybe just maybe they thought his agent would bring examples to the table of players such as Chris Drury? Look at what C. Drury makes, 7+ mil a season! Look at his career best point total 69 points and while the contract was over what he was worth, was it 2+ mil over his worth? Obviously he brings more to the table than just pure stats and i guarantee you it wasn't just the Rangers throwing big money his way. Had they not overspent to get him, he'd have likely gotten close to 6mil from someone else. Defensive play, face offs, clutch performance, grit, pk skills, etc apparently does have value in the NHL? BTW, i know Kesler was slated for arbitration and not free agency so no need to remind me, i'm just throwing out more numbers of a comparable guy stat wise and roll wise!
quote:
I admitted, that my bias has some impact, but not nearly as much as people are implying. Can anyone possibly think that their positive bias towards Kesler is impacting their vision.
Kudos for admitting this. However it's impossible to judge just how much it impacts your thoughts really. Fact is, it does to some degree, we just have to live with that. My positive bias / like for Kesler could impact my vision i suppose? I do think i've provided better examples in comparison though as well as enough rebuttal to the comparisons you've made. The other thing i look at is a few of the unbiased / fans of other teams opinions who feel the contract is a good one for the Canucks.
Oh, i really don't wanna get into the Michalek comparison and i think that guest2114 had a brilliant response to the comparison already so i'll just say this. If you could remove your hate for Kesler for just a second, i wanna know if you'd rather have him or Michalek on your team as you enter the playoffs? Anyone choosing Michalek ought to seek help! |
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Kesler Signs for 6 yrs 
