| Author |
 Topic  |
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2010 : 15:09:47
|
well guest, be fair - we're 1/3 of the way through year 1 of a 6 year deal. it looks good now, but things can go bad for all kinds of reasons - a bad injury that is never recovered from, a loss of confidence/initiative/agressiveness, bad chemistry with other players. Still a long way to go in this deal.
But I like what I see so far, and at least as far as this year goes, there is little doubt that he's going to more than earn his 5M this year. |
 |
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 15:20:40
|
More than earn his $5 million?? He's on a pace for fewer point than last year, although on pace for more goals.
I am not eating crow?? Seriously??? He's 22nd in the NHL for centres in scoring. He is in the range of players making less money for longer period of time.
As I said in another thread, maybe my old school thinking has me assuming that $5 million is a lot of NHL money. At the end of the day, Kesler is a top teir #2 centre. I never stated he was anything less. He is a #1 centre on bad teams in the NHL. He is no where near an elite centre and that still the same as last season.
He has not proven anything more than he has in the past, so why am I eating crow??? |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 15:32:49
|
Skimming through some of the old posts brought me to these......
quote:
Originally posted by nux-suk
Maybe you guys think Kesler (21g 46a 67pts +/- 0) is worth 5 mil.
Maybe Minnesota should pay Miko Koivu (20g 46a 66pts +/- 1) 5 mil. also.
Or how bout L.Erikson (27g 38a 65pts. +/- -5)
YOU ARE FIRED AS GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Eriksson is also a winger, which is always hard to compare to a centre - different things are expected from them. I'm not sure what Eriksson's 2-way game is like.
nux-suk, what do you think Koivu is going to sign for when his current contract is up? He has one more year @ 3.25 and then UFA. As guest pointed out, he signed that contract after a single 20g/50p year. If he continues to get 60+ points per year on a team as offensively challenged as MIN, I'm certain that his next contract will be at 5M/year. It probably won't be with MIN though...
Interesting to note that Koivu did in fact sign in Minny AND it was for much more than was being thrown around here! 7 years, 47Mil and a cap hit of 6.75. Here's a very interesting article, albeit supported by a couple of Minny writers, with some words and phrases used that sound eerily familiar from back when this thread was in introduced!
http://www.viewfrommyseats.com/2010/07/followers-blindly-following-and-the-mikko-koivu-contract/ |
|
|
|
sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 16:05:16
|
He's pretty damn good for a guy with no patience with the puck. and not in a good way
Go OILERS Go!!! |
|
|
|
MyTeamRules
Top Prospect
72 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 17:15:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
He's pretty damn good for a guy with no patience with the puck. and not in a good way
Go OILERS Go!!!
Yep because he has no patience he can't do end to ends like he does every 4 games?
Kesler is living up to his signing this year, his Two-Way play is getting better, he is putting up points for a 70 point pace while playing on a second line (slightly above average). But the most amazing thing is Kesler is still + (7); you expect players like him on the penalty kill a lot, and playing against the other teams first lines to be -.
Canucks are a power house this year, I wonder if Luongo will step it back to a great level instead of just above average. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 18:29:14
|
quote:
Yep because he has no patience he can't do end to ends like he does every 4 games?
Kesler is living up to his signing this year, his Two-Way play is getting better, he is putting up points for a 70 point pace while playing on a second line (slightly above average). But the most amazing thing is Kesler is still + (7); you expect players like him on the penalty kill a lot, and playing against the other teams first lines to be -.
Canucks are a power house this year, I wonder if Luongo will step it back to a great level instead of just above average.
I'm pretty sure sahis doesn't know who Kesler actually is 
+7 is not bad - keep in mind that there are no minuses given if a PP goal is scored against. He does consistently play against one of the opposing team's top lines though, so to be +7 is not bad. And he's been on for more than one SHG.
Yep, the last big shoe to drop is Luongo, he's been positively average this year, and pretty inconsistent too. We'll see what happens as the year goes on
quote:
Interesting to note that Koivu did in fact sign in Minny
Yeah, I saw that too, this thread is full of interesting comparisons (more to come at the end of this year), and it certainly makes you think about comparable value. His stats are very identical to Kes - both have the same points (Koivu has more assists, Kes more goals), +/- pretty even, PP points even, Kes has more SOG. Koivu plays on the first line for an offensively-challenged MIN team, Kes on the second line of an offensively gifted one. Given that Koivu is making nearly 2M more than Kesler, I'm pretty happy with our deal.
quote:
More than earn his $5 million?? He's on a pace for fewer point than last year, although on pace for more goals.
I am not eating crow?? Seriously??? He's 22nd in the NHL for centres in scoring. He is in the range of players making less money for longer period of time.
You know points aren't everything for a player like Kesler (just like Horcoff), although he has a bunch of them and it would be very bad if he were producing none. You don't see VAN every night so I don't expect you to have a lot of visibility into what he does for the team. Consensus in Vancouver is that he's earning the money. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 20:58:57
|
Again, it take a big man to admit he is wrong. I am not a big man.
That being said, I will concede to this, $5 million is not TOO much to pay for Kesler if he does what he has done last year and this year to this point. He's a close to 70 pt guy. He can play the PK better than most. He is still a complete DBag like his little sister Burrows, but the guy can play hockey and has the chops to be great. Too bad he is American
But I still ain't eating any crow.
Jerks. |
|
|
|
MyTeamRules
Top Prospect
72 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 21:32:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Again, it take a big man to admit he is wrong. I am not a big man.
That being said, I will concede to this, $5 million is not TOO much to pay for Kesler if he does what he has done last year and this year to this point. He's a close to 70 pt guy. He can play the PK better than most. He is still a complete DBag like his little sister Burrows, but the guy can play hockey and has the chops to be great. Too bad he is American
But I still ain't eating any crow.
Jerks.
Did Utemin take over Beans? It sure sounds like it.
But I do agree 5 million is too much for him, while he plays on the Canucks. But of course many players are way over-payed, while Kesler is just a bit over payed.
”If you've only got one day to live, come see the Toronto Maple Leafs. It'll seem like forever. ” - Pat |
Edited by - MyTeamRules on 12/16/2010 21:32:59 |
|
|
|
Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 21:54:31
|
WTF, I have a hater who didn't even exist when I made most of my posts.....  
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 22:19:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Again, it take a big man to admit he is wrong. I am not a big man.
That being said, I will concede to this, $5 million is not TOO much to pay for Kesler if he does what he has done last year and this year to this point. He's a close to 70 pt guy. He can play the PK better than most. He is still a complete DBag like his little sister Burrows, but the guy can play hockey and has the chops to be great. Too bad he is American
But I still ain't eating any crow.
Jerks.
Beans, kudos for saying this as i know it prob hurt  . In fairness to you, this is pretty much what you said all along, that Kesler needed to continue to perform at a close to a PPG pace (and bring his other elements) to warrant this kind of payday. Trust me, i read through most of the old posts in this thread and it boils down to that! And, i agree. If he suddenly becomes complacent and his production takes a hit and for some reason his defensive abilities aren't seen, then he's def overpaid. Without going into all the other crap we threw around, i couldn't agree more with your admission that he is earning those dollars with his play last year, and so far this year!
I will say this in his defense, and you prob haven't seen him enough to notice. He's matured, AND, he's been told by the team to change slightly. Apparenlty they've asked him to tone down the yapping / smack talk, etc as well as the after whistle scrums and such. Trust me, seeing him play as much as i do, i notice it. I'm not saying he's gonna change your opinion overnight, but give it some time and you might, if you're completely honest, not consider him such a "d-bag" one day.  |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 17:20:45
|
| I'm entering this debate late it seems but that was because before this year I hadn't considered Kesler a offensive threat. Any 2nd line center who is 3rd in the NHL in Goals in his position is worth 5million a year in my opinion. As of today 15 goals is good for 3rd position for goals. I've always considered Kesler a good 2way player with offensive production but never a goal scorer. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 21:30:21
|
The abundance of goals are a new thing, but I chalk most of it up to the fact that he's playing in front of the net on the first PP unit, with the Sedin's feeding him pucks. The Canucks have the #1 PP in the league, and he's scored 6 of his 15 goals on the PP. In years past he has centered the second PP unit, so this is a change for him. Its working now, the Sedin's and Kes have some chemistry, and Kes is a big body with good hands to screen the goalie. He's ahead of last year's PPG pace.
However, I have noticed Kesler going hard to the net more than in years past - perhaps another aspect of his game coming out now at the team/coach's behest? As a centre you look to setup plays, not make them, but he has been very good at taking the shot when available - more shots, more goals. He's slightly ahead of his shots/game from last year. |
|
|
|
Guest6911
( )
|
Posted - 12/18/2010 : 13:52:05
|
I got some sauce for that crow!
Koivu gets $6.75M/yr while never having scored more than 22 goals or 71 points in a season and somehow Kesler is overpaid. 
Kesler: 20 points in his last 20 games
Koivu: 14 points in his last 20 games
|
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2010 : 08:37:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6911
I got some sauce for that crow!
Koivu gets $6.75M/yr while never having scored more than 22 goals or 71 points in a season and somehow Kesler is overpaid.
Kesler: 20 points in his last 20 games
Koivu: 14 points in his last 20 games
You are saying the past 20 games is the indication of a 5+ year contract???
So, Kesler has 6 more points in the past 20 games. Overall, Koivu is ahead of Kesler in points and respectable in +/-.
Koivu also has 40 more points in 50 fewer career games and has just 3 fewer PPG goals. All this with a pylon and a bag of pucks as line mates. Comparabable, both looking at teams and linemates, Kesler has had a huge advantage in the offensive talent department.
Yep, tasty sauce.
 |
|
|
|
Yewcandoit
Rookie
Canada
115 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2010 : 17:10:37
|
I agree that $5M is a lot for Kesler, but I see it as a good 6 year investment. He has been improving every year.
The $5M just means that they are giving him more responsibility. And this is a guy that takes that responsibility seriously. I wouldn't be surprised to see him take over the captaincy in a year or two.
Like Don Cherry said, he is not a pest anymore.
I am glad that this American is representing a Canadian team 
Making hockey more accessible:
[Mod Edit - Spam, please remove from your signature] |
Edited by - Beans15 on 12/19/2010 20:17:18 |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2010 : 17:31:04
|
quote:
The $5M just means that they are giving him more responsibility. And this is a guy that takes that responsibility seriously. I wouldn't be surprised to see him take over the captaincy in a year or two.
He has definitely become a lot more responsible over the summer - as Alex mentioned the Canucks had a talk with him about how to elevate his game to the next level (stop questioning the ref's, cut down on the chatter), and he has taken it to heart, and it shows. I said earlier, many nights he's the best Canuck on the ice, he seems to do it all.
That being said, he won't be captain - the Canucks made their bed with Hank, and as long as Hank is a Canuck I think he'll be the captain. |
|
|
|
Guest6911
( )
|
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 19:07:33
|
quote:
You are saying the past 20 games is the indication of a 5+ year contract???
So, Kesler has 6 more points in the past 20 games. Overall, Koivu is ahead of Kesler in points and respectable in +/-.
Koivu also has 40 more points in 50 fewer career games and has just 3 fewer PPG goals. All this with a pylon and a bag of pucks as line mates. Comparabable, both looking at teams and linemates, Kesler has had a huge advantage in the offensive talent department.
I wouldn't exactly call Gaborik, PM Bouchard, Demitra and Rolston pylons and a "bag of pucks" as you put it.
Another 3 points for Kesler tonight. 29 points in 32 games. 4G and 5A in his last 5 games. Ridiculous faceoff win percentage. But still not worth $5M. Riiighhht. I'm willing to bet that there's 30 GM's out there who'd disagree with you. But you just keep on hating there beans.
How's that Horcoff contract looking BTW? ROFL!!!
Yep, tasty sauce.
[/quote] |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2010 : 19:36:12
|
Seriously, is this going to happen every couple of games??
A few things:
1) Never said that Horcoff's contract was fair. Not ever. So keep up with the agreement.
2) Koivu rarely if ever played with Gaborik or Demitra. And neither are the Sedin's now are they??
3) I conceeded to the point that $5 million is not what it used to be. Kesler is playing well. No doubt. But this contract is still not a year old. Will I be proven wrong. Most likely. Will your comments mean anything. Not likely at all.
|
|
|
|
Guest6911
( )
|
Posted - 12/28/2010 : 11:33:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Seriously, is this going to happen every couple of games??
A few things:
1) Never said that Horcoff's contract was fair. Not ever. So keep up with the agreement.
2) Koivu rarely if ever played with Gaborik or Demitra. And neither are the Sedin's now are they??
3) I conceeded to the point that $5 million is not what it used to be. Kesler is playing well. No doubt. But this contract is still not a year old. Will I be proven wrong. Most likely. Will your comments mean anything. Not likely at all.
OK fair enough. Kesler mostly plays with Tambellini/Torres/Samuelsson and Raymond when he's healthy. Only plays with the twins on the PP.
Going through the teams on nhlnumbers.com, I would take Kesler over most players in the league within a $500K cap hit difference. Anaheim signed some really great deals with Getzlaf and Perry. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2010 : 17:59:22
|
quote:
OK fair enough. Kesler mostly plays with Tambellini/Torres/Samuelsson and Raymond when he's healthy. Only plays with the twins on the PP.
Kesler has been the single biggest reason for the success of Tambellini this year. He's already matched his career high so far this year (in only 21 games too, most of those points have come in the last month or so). Raymond as well, although he's been injured the past few weeks. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2010 : 18:07:56
|
I have intentionally focused on Kesler for the past few games and have noticed that he is not engaging in the shinanigans of the past. Not like his brethern of Burrows, Glass, and Alberts whocontinue to skate around like d-bags, Kesler has been solid and disciplined.
I also see Torres playing far better than he did while he was in Edmonton. Even more impressive is that Vancouver seems to have figured out their achillies heel of the past few season being penalties. In the past they have always been in the group of the highest penalized teams. This season, they are 8th fewest. So not only are they absolutely punishing on the PP, they are not on the PK as often.
It's makes me a little sick to say, but Van is looking very good and should be the team to beat in the West. A big part of that is Kesler.
Sigh. At least I can still laugh at the Leafs. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2010 : 18:49:46
|
quote:
I have intentionally focused on Kesler for the past few games and have noticed that he is not engaging in the shinanigans of the past. Not like his brethern of Burrows, Glass, and Alberts whocontinue to skate around like d-bags, Kesler has been solid and disciplined.
You have probably seen some of the best hockey Kesler has played over the last few games then, period. He has been pretty much everything for the Canucks in December.
One of the commentators during the PHI game said he was the Canucks first half MVP, and I concur. |
|
|
|
Guest4165
( )
|
Posted - 01/02/2011 : 14:33:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I have intentionally focused on Kesler for the past few games and have noticed that he is not engaging in the shinanigans of the past. Not like his brethern of Burrows, Glass, and Alberts whocontinue to skate around like d-bags, Kesler has been solid and disciplined.
I also see Torres playing far better than he did while he was in Edmonton. Even more impressive is that Vancouver seems to have figured out their achillies heel of the past few season being penalties. In the past they have always been in the group of the highest penalized teams. This season, they are 8th fewest. So not only are they absolutely punishing on the PP, they are not on the PK as often.
It's makes me a little sick to say, but Van is looking very good and should be the team to beat in the West. A big part of that is Kesler.
Sigh. At least I can still laugh at the Leafs.
i never thought i would read those words from you beans...sounded like a little crow has been eaten ...thank you for being a bigger man ,finally . |
|
|
|
Guest6911
( )
|
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 21:49:50
|
Another two goals tonight, including a ridiculous toe-drag move on Aucoin!!
3rd in goals only behind Stamkos and Crosby!!! YAY Kesler!!! |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 21:52:39
|
yeah, that was a sweet move on Aucoin. 2g, +4 on the night, incredible. 30g and 50pts in 51 games, this is shaping up to be one hell of a year for him.
He's scoring more goals than setting up, which is new - barring injury, he has a shot at a 50 goal season... |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/02/2011 21:53:26 |
|
|
|
Lunchbox
Top Prospect
Canada
88 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 00:24:54
|
| I was watching the highlights and Kesler said he pulled off that move to show off because he was angry about some stuff that happened on the ice, but wasn't gonna get into it, because he "didn't want to get fined." Can someone who was watching the game shed any light on this? |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 07:31:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Lunchbox
I was watching the highlights and Kesler said he pulled off that move to show off because he was angry about some stuff that happened on the ice, but wasn't gonna get into it, because he "didn't want to get fined." Can someone who was watching the game shed any light on this?
If this is true, I believe this is the sole reason behind Kesler's improvements this season. He went from being an excellent 2nd line centre to a Hart Trophy nominee in my opinion. Reason being is he is not engaging in the garbage on the ice and seeking payback physically. He is doing it on the scoreboard and making people look stupid along the way.
I can't believe I am saying this, but I liken Kesler to Messier back in the Oilers hayday. Gretzky (much like the Sedin's today) are the flash and get all the media and most of the credit. However, it was Messier (much like Kesler today) who is the real engine behind the success of the team. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 09:19:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I can't believe I am saying this, but I liken Kesler to Messier back in the Oilers hayday. Gretzky (much like the Sedin's today) are the flash and get all the media and most of the credit. However, it was Messier (much like Kesler today) who is the real engine behind the success of the team.
I can't believe you're saying it either Beans! Lol
I will say, out here, as much as the Sedins are the flash and get a ton of media attention, the talk around town is in fact that Kesler is the MVP of this team so far this year. He may not get all the credit he deserves league wide, but he's getting it locally, that's for sure.
His play is making Bobby Clarke look like a genius!
Lunchbox...... i saw most of the first period and the last 10 mins of the game so i missed basically half the game. I don't know what Kesler was alluding to? Maybe nuxfan knows and will show up and explain? |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 09:52:07
|
I saw nothing particularly bad happen in the game last night with Kesler - it was a pretty quiet one, neither team seemed overly physical. Perhaps something was said? I think I saw him get clipped with a stick that wasn't called, but I also think that was after his goal. There were not many penalties called last night, perhaps a blown call earlier in the game.
Whatever - I'm happy he's answering with goals rather than mouth. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/03/2011 09:52:38 |
|
|
|
Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 14:47:21
|
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 09:19:11--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will say, out here, as much as the Sedins are the flash and get a ton of media attention, the talk around town is in fact that Kesler is the MVP of this team so far this year. He may not get all the credit he deserves league wide, but he's getting it locally, that's for sure.
I'm happy to see that Kesler is getting credit for his greatness around his town. In Montreal as well he's getting famous. I've seen more than one of his jerseys out there on the outdoor rinks, but I've never seen a Sedin jersey.
All that to say that he clearly deserves 5 NHL millions.
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Kesler Signs for 6 yrs 
