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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
 Posted - 12/27/2006 : 11:18:18
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Poll Question:
If their careers had not been devastated by injury and/or hampered by ongoing health problems, who of these modern day warriors, would have come out on top, and why?
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Ripley
PickupHockey Pro
USA
365 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 12:19:04
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It's hard not to think Mario all the way. I often wonder if he would have finished ahead of Gretzky. There is no doubt that he would have beat his goals because he missed almost 5 full seasons and several more half seasons. It would have been reasonable to assume that he would have gotten a couple hundred more goals. As for assists, it would have been close but I think he would have been shy.
I say Mario would have ended with 915 goals and 1610 assists for a total 2525 points
But what do I know?
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 13:05:29
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I would have picked Bobby Orr
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 13:17:33
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Admin acknowleges Robert Gordon Orr. And is ashamed that he forgot him in the list.
Bobby Orr has been added. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 13:45:55
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| I would also say Bobby Orr. In the 9 strong years he played he was the best. If he could have had the longevity of Gretzky, it would have been a shared record book, not so one sided. The fact that he was a defensemen makes it even more amazing. |
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Blubberboy
Rookie
155 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 16:14:08
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Mario!
He had cancer and he still beat all the other wimps against him and they played more than 20 games more that him!!
Wow?
They must have sucked!?
Go Vancouver |
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Guest4526
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Posted - 12/27/2006 : 22:22:54
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| Hands Down Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr. Bobby over Mario thought, since he is in my mind, the greatest defenseman, if not the greatest hockey player ever. If anyone has seen footage of him playing, my bad, DOMINATING, you would know what I am talking about. Mario missed a lot of hockey, and he would be close to Gretzky's milestones, so he gets honourable mentions. |
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blade
Rookie
Canada
199 Posts |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 17:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Blubberboy
Mario!
He had cancer and he still beat all the other wimps against him and they played more than 20 games more that him!!
Saku Koivu had cancer too (I think it was even the same type) and he's still playing. 'Course he's not quite the same player Mario was, but had he not been plagued with injuries and cancer, who knows what he could've been?
Just found this out about the cancer--it was non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, the initials for which are NHL--kind of a weird coincidence since two NHL players have had it. I saw on Wikipedia it had an article about it, and one of the sections was called "Notable NHL Patients". At first I thought they meant players in the National Hockey League! But it just meant famous people who have had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.
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Edited by - Mikhailova on 01/05/2007 19:28:06 |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2007 : 23:50:19
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| Ya I'm a big time Koivu fan too. Too bad he has battled with cancer, his eye injury and knee injuries. But you're right, he's not at the same level as most of these guys. |
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Guest4521
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Posted - 01/04/2007 : 12:08:19
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| I would give it to orr and no one else. Besides points, everyone should take a look at is +/- record....it's unbelievable!!!! Nobody will ever come close to that. |
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luckyluc
Top Prospect
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 12:13:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4521
I would give it to orr and no one else. Besides points, everyone should take a look at is +/- record....it's unbelievable!!!! Nobody will ever come close to that.
Are you serious? We are talking Bobby Orr here! Checking out his +/- is probably the last thing you should do. Its such an overrated stat anyways. How bout his other stats. |
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Guest4044
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Posted - 01/04/2007 : 12:22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by luckyluc
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4521
I would give it to orr and no one else. Besides points, everyone should take a look at is +/- record....it's unbelievable!!!! Nobody will ever come close to that.
Are you serious? We are talking Bobby Orr here! Checking out his +/- is probably the last thing you should do. Its such an overrated stat anyways. How bout his other stats.
I disagree luckyluc. +/- is one of the most telling of all stats. What good are you if you are a heavy minus? You're a liability. If you're a little minus that is one thing, it could be a result of the team around you, but if you're a heavy minus then you have problems. |
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luckyluc
Top Prospect
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 13:51:55
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Explain to me how it is a telling stat?
It is a very skewed stat in my opinion. First, it is basically a reflection of the skill of the team the player plays for. Secondly, it has to do with the skill level of a players linemates. If a player plays with good players, he has a better chance to have a strong plus minus. The opposite should occur if he plays with crap players. Third, it has to do with the situation the player is given. If you play on the top defensive pairing battling against the oppostiions stars every game, then you are more likely to be a minus player. Fourth, it fails to take into account the powerplay, and since it is such a huge part of today's NHL - that also makes it flawed.
Players on good teams lead this statistical category: Is it a coincidence that 6 of the top 10 in this category play are Sabres and Ducks?
HEAVY MINUS = LIABILITY????????????
Put down the pipe.
Joe Thornton -4, the league's most valuable liability!!!!!!!!!!
Brian Gionta -4
Zdeno Chara -5
Alex Ovechkin -5
Mats Sundin -5
Brendan Shanahan -5
Eric Staal -5
Rick Nash -6
Patrick Elias -8
Jonathan Cheechoo -9
Pavol Demitra -11
Simon Gagne -13
Darcy Tucker -13
Furthermore, an example of some players whose stats are dependant on their situation (defending players listed above):
Brian Rafalski -6
Willie Mitchell -7
Rob Blake -10
Adam Foote -18
Joni Pitkanen -18
Also notice how many Devils are in the negatives. This is due to the lack of goal scoring as a team. Negative Flyers = team sucks.
Need I go on?
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Ryan Harper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2007 : 14:27:54
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Check out this article on the Plus Minus stat. Here are a few quotes from it - it is well worth reading the entire article though:
"In 1992, Ysebaert led the NHL in plus- minus, recording a +44 with the Detroit Red Wings. Six years later, Ysebaert, now a member of the Tampa Bay Lightning, posted the worst plus-minus in the league, plummeting to -43. He's the only player in NHL history to finish at the top and bottom of the plus-minus heap. It's not as though Ysebaert suddenly forgot how to play defense. Granted, while he was a bit older and slower in Tampa, the biggest differences were his teammates."
"Joe Sakic, who's won everything there is to win in hockey, started his career going -102 over his first three seasons in Quebec. But maturity and better teammates soon turned the tide, and Sakic has gone +150 since then, even leading the league in 2001 with a +45."
"Plus-minus is a measure of dominance, not defense. And few players were as dominant as Bobby Orr. The legendary Bruin blueliner led the league in plus-minus a record six times, finishing +597 for his career. Orr also holds the record for the highest single-season rating, compiling a ridiculous +124 in 1971."
http://www.lcshockey.com/content/072206.asp
"Some people skate to the puck. I skate to where the puck is going to be."
~Wayne Gretzky
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slapshot
Rookie
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 10:46:13
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| Ya plus minus is in no way a defensive stat. |
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dummy101
Top Prospect
Canada
33 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2007 : 14:00:12
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I picked Orr because there never will be a D man that can even come close to his talent,so imo ,had he played 12 full,healthy,seasons he would still hold all D scoring records and few others.
I also believe that if Mario had the same chance as Gretzky(Semenko like winger,League protection and his health for equal yrs)he would own more records than Wayne. |
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Guest4652
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Posted - 01/06/2007 : 09:47:12
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| Where's Bure? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 12:00:10
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The Hockey New's top 5 of all time would most certainly have looked like this.
1) Orr
2) Lemieux
3) Gretzky
4) Howe
5) Richard
Some of Orr's records still haven't been broken and he only played for 9 seasons. And he retired almost 30 years ago now. It's ridiculous how great he was.
And Orr is ahead of Lemieux because he is more complete.
They were both so physically gifted.
So sad we couldn't see what could have been. |
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Tiger
Top Prospect
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 12:29:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4652
Where's Bure?
Good call. Bure should be on the list. Wish i got to see him play more
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Poll - What could have been. 
